Am I doing money laundering there? | Bitcointalksearch.org

gantez

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Quote from: CristianOff on December 12, 2019, 07:31:05 PM

What if instead a car it was a house?

A gift is what it is, whether car or house or cash. If you have concealed your personal financial earning, that's income or expenditure as the case may be from your government to avoid being taxed, what you have done is simply tax evasion.
If your government do tax directly on expenditure, that means you have committed a crime. Anyway, some countries do VAT (Value Added Tax) on the product as expenditure.

CristianOff

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I just found an amazing channel about tax optimisation and wanted to share it.

Graham Stephan, a guy making $1m a year so you better listen to what he says.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCV6KDgJskWaEckne5aPA0aQ/videos

xtraelv

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฿ear ride on the rainbow slide

It is often easier to pay the required tax and use your skills to earn more $.

Structuring the way you earn can also save you in tax liability.

Some people never get caught evading tax. Others do get caught and loose a lot in the process.

Tax departments can confiscate assets, impose HUGE penalties, seize bank accounts and evasion can result in prison time.

paxmao

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Quote from: alani123 on December 15, 2019, 04:08:59 AM

Quote from: CristianOff on December 12, 2019, 07:31:05 PM

Assume you have $650,000 in Bitcoin.
You exchange $300,000 into fiat and this is your only
source of income. You keep $180,000 after paying California tax.

...
Is this money laundering?

What if instead a car it was a house?

First of all, selling of BTC isn't usually taxed. It's the profits that are taxed as capital gains. You could do some accounting tricks to claim you acquired them with certain costs, even if it's cost of labor. ...

I am in for knowing said trick. Normally, you will have to provide documentary proof of evidence.

CristianOff

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Quote from: 3dOOm on December 18, 2019, 07:56:02 AM

Quote from: CristianOff on December 12, 2019, 07:31:05 PM

Assume you have $650,000 in Bitcoin.
You exchange $300,000 into fiat and this is your only
source of income. You keep $180,000 after paying California tax.

From the $350,000 you are left with, you purchased a
$150,000 car with bitcoins.
You did not convert money into fiat so there is no way the
government will know you spent another $150,000. You can
always claim a rich arab friend gifted the car.
Is this money laundering?

What if instead a car it was a house?

You can watch the movie The Laundromat, it's based on the true story of Panama Papers, they explain in a comic way how money laundering works.For me was a good movie, maybe because i like how Antonio Banderas and Gary Oldman plays. Grin

I will call my girlfriend, tell her I want to Netflix and Chill and actually watch the movie.

Very nice suggestion, as a guy who rarely or never watches movies I will give this one a try. I read books about money laundering and tax evasion (just random readings out of boredom)
so I feel prepared for this movie Grin

3dOOm

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Quote from: CristianOff on December 12, 2019, 07:31:05 PM

Assume you have $650,000 in Bitcoin.
You exchange $300,000 into fiat and this is your only
source of income. You keep $180,000 after paying California tax.

From the $350,000 you are left with, you purchased a
$150,000 car with bitcoins.
You did not convert money into fiat so there is no way the
government will know you spent another $150,000. You can
always claim a rich arab friend gifted the car.
Is this money laundering?

What if instead a car it was a house?

You can watch the movie The Laundromat, it's based on the true story of Panama Papers, they explain in a comic way how money laundering works.For me was a good movie, maybe because i like how Antonio Banderas and Gary Oldman plays. Grin

CristianOff

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Quote from: alani123 on December 15, 2019, 04:08:59 AM

Quote from: CristianOff on December 12, 2019, 07:31:05 PM

Assume you have $650,000 in Bitcoin.
You exchange $300,000 into fiat and this is your only
source of income. You keep $180,000 after paying California tax.

From the $350,000 you are left with, you purchased a
$150,000 car with bitcoins.
You did not convert money into fiat so there is no way the
government will know you spent another $150,000. You can
always claim a rich arab friend gifted the car.
Is this money laundering?

What if instead a car it was a house?

First of all, selling of BTC isn't usually taxed. It's the profits that are taxed as capital gains. You could do some accounting tricks to claim you acquired them with certain costs, even if it's cost of labor. Nobody would advise you to tax yourself at a virtual 100% profit, except maybe your local tax authorities. Gifts on the other hand, are very much taxed.

Very interesting and good to know. Time to do Warren Buffet accounting tricks and pay lower taxes than the accountant herself Cheesy

Quote from: trumpman on December 15, 2019, 04:11:38 AM

Quote from: CristianOff on December 12, 2019, 07:31:05 PM

Assume you have $650,000 in Bitcoin.
You exchange $300,000 into fiat and this is your only
source of income. You keep $180,000 after paying California tax.

You can
always claim a rich arab friend gifted the car.
Is this money laundering?

What if instead a car it was a house?

I doubt the IRS will simply take your word that "a rich arab friend gifted it to you". But no, that's not money laundering, it's tax evasion . If you really have such an amount of BTC (which I doubt) better visit an accountant. I am sure there are many ways to cash out a part of your BTC and pay as little as possible in tax, like an off-shore or whatever Roll Eyes

I don't have that amount in Bitcoin and never said specifically I have. Even if I had I would keep it secret and not flex it here

I am just giving a special case and looking to discuss it with people of bitcointalk. The off-shore idea sounds good but seeing Panama Papers and everything, I really believe you need to know someone doing
off-shore things so you can learn to do it yourself without being caught. I read a book about it and things are more complicated that they look on the surface hahaha

How about if there was a service where you can take fiat loan and use crypto as collateral and you would never repay the loan? Is it a voila situation for mister tax man ? Grin

In any case guys, I think the safest solution would be to get a singapore / hong kong girl and move there for 1 year, cash-out and return back.

trumpman

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Quote from: CristianOff on December 12, 2019, 07:31:05 PM

Assume you have $650,000 in Bitcoin.
You exchange $300,000 into fiat and this is your only
source of income. You keep $180,000 after paying California tax.

You can
always claim a rich arab friend gifted the car.
Is this money laundering?

What if instead a car it was a house?

I doubt the IRS will simply take your word that "a rich arab friend gifted it to you". But no, that's not money laundering, it's tax evasion . If you really have such an amount of BTC (which I doubt) better visit an accountant. I am sure there are many ways to cash out a part of your BTC and pay as little as possible in tax, like an off-shore or whatever Roll Eyes

alani123

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Quote from: CristianOff on December 12, 2019, 07:31:05 PM

Assume you have $650,000 in Bitcoin.
You exchange $300,000 into fiat and this is your only
source of income. You keep $180,000 after paying California tax.

From the $350,000 you are left with, you purchased a
$150,000 car with bitcoins.
You did not convert money into fiat so there is no way the
government will know you spent another $150,000. You can
always claim a rich arab friend gifted the car.
Is this money laundering?

What if instead a car it was a house?

First of all, selling of BTC isn't usually taxed. It's the profits that are taxed as capital gains. You could do some accounting tricks to claim you acquired them with certain costs, even if it's cost of labor. Nobody would advise you to tax yourself at a virtual 100% profit, except maybe your local tax authorities. Gifts on the other hand, are very much taxed.

odolvlobo

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Quote from: https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/report-of-cash-payments-over-10000-received-in-a-trade-or-business-motor-vehicle-dealership-qas

Report of Cash Payments Over $10,000 Received in a Trade or Business - Motor Vehicle Dealership Q&As

Generally, any person in a trade or business who receives more than $10,000 in cash in a single transaction or related transactions must complete a Form 8300, Report of Cash Payments Over $10,000 Received in a Trade or Business (PDF). Form 8300 is a joint form issued by the IRS and the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN) and is used by the government to track individuals that evade taxes and those who profit from criminal activities. Although the cash reporting requirements apply to many types of businesses, auto dealerships frequently receive cash in excess of $10,000 and are required to comply with the filing requirements.

CristianOff

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Quote from: Foxpup on December 12, 2019, 10:46:10 PM

Quote from: CristianOff on December 12, 2019, 07:31:05 PM

From the $350,000 you are left with, you purchased a
$150,000 car with bitcoins.
You did not convert money into fiat so there is no way the
government will know you spent another $150,000. You can
always claim a rich arab friend gifted the car.
Is this money laundering?

No, that's tax evasion, a different crime entirely. You owe capital gains tax any time you trade item X (such as bitcoins) for item Y (such as fiat, or a car) and item Y is worth more than what you originally paid for item X. You also generally owe tax on gifts if they are over a certain value, so your bogus story about rich Arab friends won't actually help your case at all even if anyone believed it. It's also illegal to drive unregistered cars on public roads, and if you do ever register your new car, there goes the "there is no way the government will know" part of your plan.

Quote from: CristianOff on December 12, 2019, 07:31:05 PM

What if instead a car it was a house?

Real estate sales are also recorded with the government. There's no way to buy a house without the government knowing.

Thanks that's a great answer. I wanted to say tax evasion but said money laundering by mistake.
This government knows everything though

UserU

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on December 13, 2019, 06:51:08 AM

Money laundering doesn't necessarily involve theft. A large drug manufacturer might use a laundromat to process cash obtained from selling drugs as fake business via the laundromat, and thereby be able to deposit the illegal drug selling profits in to a legitimate business bank account without raising suspicion.

You're right, I almost forgot about the drugs part.

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: UserU on December 13, 2019, 05:14:38 AM

Money laundering happens when you steal someone's or some entity's money and then use the proceeds to run some legit business like a laundromat.

Money laundering doesn't necessarily involve theft. A large drug manufacturer might use a laundromat to process cash obtained from selling drugs as fake business via the laundromat, and thereby be able to deposit the illegal drug selling profits in to a legitimate business bank account without raising suspicion.

UserU

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Money laundering happens when you steal someone's or some entity's money and then use the proceeds to run some legit business like a laundromat. In other words, "washing" the dirty monies so they become clean monies.

Meanwhile like what Fox mentioned above, what you're planning is tax evasion if you fail to pay the government taxes (e.g. road, door, profits). You rightfully earn the sum but you have to declare so the gov knows the sources are legit.

Foxpup

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Quote from: CristianOff on December 12, 2019, 07:31:05 PM

From the $350,000 you are left with, you purchased a
$150,000 car with bitcoins.
You did not convert money into fiat so there is no way the
government will know you spent another $150,000. You can
always claim a rich arab friend gifted the car.
Is this money laundering?

No, that's tax evasion, a different crime entirely. You owe capital gains tax any time you trade item X (such as bitcoins) for item Y (such as fiat, or a car) and item Y is worth more than what you originally paid for item X. You also generally owe tax on gifts if they are over a certain value, so your bogus story about rich Arab friends won't actually help your case at all even if anyone believed it. It's also illegal to drive unregistered cars on public roads, and if you do ever register your new car, there goes the "there is no way the government will know" part of your plan.

Quote from: CristianOff on December 12, 2019, 07:31:05 PM

What if instead a car it was a house?

Real estate sales are also recorded with the government. There's no way to buy a house without the government knowing.

CristianOff

member

Activity: 421

Merit: 97

Assume you have $650,000 in Bitcoin.
You exchange $300,000 into fiat and this is your only
source of income. You keep $180,000 after paying California tax.

From the $350,000 you are left with, you purchased a
$150,000 car with bitcoins.
You did not convert money into fiat so there is no way the
government will know you spent another $150,000. You can
always claim a rich arab friend gifted the car.
Is this money laundering?

What if instead a car it was a house?

Topic: Am I doing money laundering there? (Read 255 times)