Topic: AMD mining DEAD NOW with Bitmain E3 (Read 1900 times)

At this point, I'm of the opinion that if that video "claiming" to be about a F3 Ethereum ASIC was about a real miner, it is more likely to be the next generation Bitmain 14/16nm SCRYPT miner that I anticipate showing up in a few months, probably to be known as the L5 and by one report using 1300 watts.
1500+ Mhash of SCRYPT is a significant improvement over anything current on efficiency (about 3 times the hashrate for 1.5 times the power if that 1300 watt figure is correct), so well in line with what we've seen the 14/16 nm node achieve over 28nm on other algorithms.

As far as I know, the F3 miner is still a thing of speculation. No solid proof has been given out except the one video (could be fake).

I agree if you think the E3 is less efficient. But F3 will kill AMD mining in ETH.

AMD mining is still not dead even if the Bitmain E3 dominate the EThash mining. There are still other profitable coins to mine using AMD GPUs ,if you are a true miner you will not get panic about the release of Bitmain E3, algo switch to the rescue but it will take time to adjust and fine tuning to other algo. AMD GPUs is still more energy efficient compared to NVIDIA, so that's why we can not conclude that AMD mining will be out of the mining scene.

I haven't been watching the other ethash coins all that closely, but Ethereum ITSELF has shed a noticeable (but not large) amount of hashrate for weeks now - with a rather large dip on April 9.

It would certainly do some bouncing up and down until it would settle at some (profitable) level...but this "asic" is different from others
because its not order of magnitude faster or more profitable, driving GPUs out...it certainly makes no sense to buy new GPUs, but
for already working rigs, it doesn't change much

  That's why I hate china ASIC manufacture.

They make asic, mine for themselves secretly, and sell to other when the ASIC is not profitable.

And make everybody make no money.

Or it will go unprofitable for a while and shed a bunch of hashrate - a far more likely option IMO for pretty much all GPU-mineable coins when The Next Big Shakeout happens.
Much like what happened to X11 coins when folks GPU mining Litecoin dumped out of it due to the Gridseed GC3355 + coin price dump drove GPU miners out of Litecoin in early 2014.

move on to another coin do not get carried away by debate between GPU and Bitmain. AMD manufacturers are not stupid in looking at the market situation and do not want to lose their products as well as consumers.

What that means? Or you're just farming posts?

I hope ETC will change the PoW so that it has wide miner community support.

it seems like this will be very difficult, specifically for eth people mine using gtx, but it could be some time amd remove vga card support eth

Exactly, that was the point of my post

But thats exactly why ETC price will have to rise to make it profitable

The price won't matter, once ETH goes fully Proof of Stake income from mining it disappears as there will be NO MINING any more on it.

That's also going to dump profitability on ALL GPU mineable coins across the board though as the (currently) 9 million or more GPUs mining on ETH look for new homes, and will hammer profitability even harder on any remaining ethash coins as the E3 units in use by then look for new homes.

For that to happen, price of ETC must go 20-30 times up

Once ETH goes Proof of Stake fully, ETC will be INFINITELY more profitable to mine than ETH will be.

We just don't know "when" that will happen - even the devs can't give a firm date, just an estimated target (that they have missed a FEW times for various reasons).

Nothing will happen, doom-and-gloomers will be disappointed

I'm still waiting for evidence that any ASIC was mining in quantity on Ethereum before Bitmain announced the E3 (and any evidence that one exists NOW in more than engineering sample quantities).

There were no "sudden huge surges" like Litecoin had in second week of December or even any sudden small surges, the growth was pretty steady and AMD cards in particular were certainly in short enough supply during that growth to explain ALL of the hashrate increase.

If someone was getting enough batches of ETH ASIC chips from a foundry and building them into miners to account for a significant amount of the current ETH hashrate, there should have been a SURGE somewhere, not a fairly steady growth curve.


Note that Bitmain's business model has always been more about "turn the miners, get the profits, so we can buy more chips to make the next batch and turn THAT", which makes them a lot more money SOONER than mining does.

Knowing this, do you really believe that Bitmain would release the F3 for production and public? That would obviously rally the troops against them and would be such an unwise move. I don't believe Bitmain is a company of illiterate baboons who have no business acumen.

They are hiding their ASIC treasures and we as miners are paying the price. I'm all for ETH forking. If Monero could simply do it, then ETH devs are just being lazy.

So Bitmain raised prices for E3 to $1800 
My old rig 6x ASUS RX 470 4Gb gives me 179 Mh/s and drain same power.
It cost me about $1150 and works flawlessly
Now the prices on GPUs go down and I hope we can see $200-250 per 570 card.

Why do I need to wait for E3 until July?

AMD cards mining are far away from being dead at all. The E3 in hashrate is the same as a six cards rig , some modified rx 570 or rx 580. Won't hurt much and won't increase the network difficulty a lot more than they have already done when being used by Bitmain themselves.

You can point AMD cards to other coins, there are not only ethash coins to be mined.

Yes but as you said that it won't hurt eth mining much. I want to know your opinion about mining etc if could be more profitable in future or long term.

The ETC will stay PoW, so it has more urgency to change the PoW to be more ASIC resistant. It is about 3.3% of the total hash of ETH.

I think about 40-60% of the current ETH hash is ASIC as around 60-70% of the Monero hash was ASIC. The Monero original hash is about 840MH/s while the V7 hash is about 250MH/s now.

So if ETC changes, it will attract more GPU miners and could raise the price of ETC.

You DO know that ETC is an ethash coin, and therefore the E3 WILL mine it?

What do you think of ETC mining ?

Which part of "ETH devs have already ruled out a fork due to the E3" did you not see?

Like those of the rest of us that have ALSO crunched the numbers, they realize the E3 is not a significant short-term threat to GPU mining and probably won't have a major impact on ETH profitability by the time ETH goes full Proof of Stake.



There are a few "big cap" coins left that do not have an ASIC available yet are mineable - Zcash is probably the biggest-cap such coin at this point - but even with no ASIC those coins are going to take a serious profitability hit when ETH mining goes "poof, we're full POS now" and the ballpark 75-80% of all GPUs currently doing cryptocoin mining that are now on ETH are forced to look for something else to do.

Every popular coin has asics, soon will be time to mine only coins that have not been touched by asics.

I think that the ETH team will try to close the e3 mining. I will not panic, I will continue to gather at the Nvidia rig.

For the long run starting price of the device doesn't matter to much. Only efficiency (hash per watt) counts. At this sense bitmain e3 is no better than current gpu rigs.

The F3 at this point is a "one very short and VERY uninformative" video rumor.
There isn't even proof in the video that it is for Ethash AT ALL, presuming it actually exists.

The Monero miner fiasco just shows that Bitmain is capable of making major mistakes - they were probably working on it and were going to do their usual "introduce it out of nowhere" routing when they got undercut by Baikal introducing THEIR miner - and BOTH didn't bother paying attention to the long-standing statement by the Monero core dev group that they WOULD change the algorithm if an ASIC showed up.

ETH devs have already ruled out a fork due to the E3 - they rightly don't consider it a serious threat - though they did say they reserved the right to fork if a threat actually DID show up (like the possibility the F3 is real and goes into production and meets the claimed hashrate out of that video).


Do keep in mind that "faked" videos have appeared before - some with a lot more details than that "F3" video actually shows.

I dont know why this is so hard to understand, we now know with 100 percent certainty from the monero fisaco that bitmain only sells miners to the public AFTER they are either gona be forked to uslessness or are not as profitable as they were when they privately mined with them for six to 7 months

The E3 specs is not the issue here the E3 is OLD OLD OLD get that? if they are selling these dusty soon to be cleaned and repasted pos to the masses , they either fear a fork (doubtful, eth devs have thier heads up thier asses conceraning ming.... they always have) or they are clearing space in thier datorhalla for thier new more powerful miners aka F3 .

thats the issue here not the specs on this on year old pos e3 they are dumping on you idiots

is rite,E3 is that it is not ASIC

Intel shows no signs of actually creating a miner by themselves besides their patent application that supposedly increases the efficiency of SHA256 miners (more information here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/intel-hardware-accelerator-for-mining-3225360). What you've posted is absolutely false in that regard.

According to this Reddit post here (https://www.reddit.com/r/EtherMining/comments/8aa64j/eth_core_devs_have_decided_not_to_emergency_hard/), it seems ETH will not fork in response to the new E3. Seems reasonable enough to me considering the efficiency and hashrate of these miners. I guess we won't be seeing a fork until an entity poses a threat in the form of a 51% attack as outlined in the post.

Bitmain is coming up with these ASIC miners time and again and ordering these machines is another hurdle as they are not able to fulfill these orders in a long time, technology giants like Intel and others have started working on bringing new mining machines too, but it looks like it is difficult to break the monopoly created by bitmain as they are evolving with new machines .

The E3 is NOT more efficient than a well-tuned GPU rig.

It is AT BEST a tossup with a 6 card RX 570/580/470/480 rig, a hair more hashrate at same to a hair more power.
It is INFERIOR to a well-tuned GTX 1070 6 card rig which will manage about 190 Mhash/sec at 700-750 watts.

My bloody *5* card 1070 rigs are not well tuned (the CPU is usually a FX 8350 soaking up to 95 watts and mining Monero) and still pull 157-158 Mhash at a little under 700 watts.


The E3 will make a slow dent in ETH profitability, but it looks unlikely to make a significant dent before ETH goes Proof of Stake - and THAT is when across-the-board profitability on GPU mineable coins is going to collapse for at least a short while as all of those GPUs go searching for new homes.

Keep in mind that Bitmain would have to sell over 1.5 MILLION of the E3 to match the CURRENT Ethereum hashrate (then add a few hundred thousand MORE for the other ethash coins).
That's NOT going to happen in a few months - even with it's unquestioned "most efficient SHA256 miner in existance" causing the S9 to sell out quickly on each batch, Bitmain hasn't managed to sell THAT MANY of the S9 in the almost *2 YEARS* since it first went on sale (they probably HAVE managed to sell close to *A* Million of the S9, perhaps a little over).

With that said, can we shut this thread down and move this over to the MAIN E3 discussion thread, we don't need a half dozen threads on the SAME subject.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitmain-e3-ethash-miner-asic-shipping16-31-july-800-usd-3249542

If this is not an ASIC then what good would it do ? The only hope now is if Nvidia or AMD produce new mining specific gpu or an asic resistant coin which can challenge ethereum's market capital.

Sorry but you are wrong. NVIDIA cards are just as affected because ALL GPUs mainly depend on ETH. If ETH mining dies, all other algo/coins will also die because the massive farms will eat up profits on all other coins, regardless if that is an AMD or NVIDIA specific algo. There is no "side-effect" to NVIDIA cards only. Everyone will die. What you can do is post on the ETH github page and petition devs to create a fork that destroys ETH ASICs.

You said it "resistant" not "proof" a lot of coins are indeed ASIC resistant but not proof. If someone has enough money and devotion for ASIC that mines some algorithm, they gonna do it.

The thing is nobody will build brand new AMD rigs. Of course you run your AMD rig and make profit. Again Nvidia cards are better for zec mining. Until AMD makes a new gpu that is especially good for mining, their mining game is over. Like I said I am already seeing price cuts in AMD cards.

I though ethash was asic resistant because of DAG... maybe Im wrong

I don't think AMD is dead, especially if XMR paves the way for coins that fork every so often to resist ASIC development. What confuses me about this E3 is that it is not ASIC, but only for Ethash.

So ETH (Etrash) is not the only algorithm that can mine AMD cards. There is another ZEC(Equihash). It seems that you have forgotten or do not know the history of mining - and the bitcoin mining, and litecoin mining over time ASIC was forced out of the graphics card. There will be other algorithms that are still resistant to ASICs.

But who cares about that noise? It doesn't matter, none shut down their rigs because of noise or something...

Remember that E3 is almost the same as RX580 rig. It just costs less but everything else is almost the same (I think E3 will be as loud as a jet taking off though)

I think Bitmain really long time mined on E3 - Ethash, and now is the time to sell.

WTF

I was talking about Monero fork's difficulty skyrocketting. As ETH difficulty rises they start moving toward it increasing it's difficulty.

You mean 5 ASIC/user right ?

how would it be worse than what it is right now? Difficulty is already high because of ASICS on the network, once they are disabled the hashrate goes down and so does difficulty.  Even all the hashers from ETH wouldn't make a dent compared to the asics that have been killing monero difficulty.  Also lower hashrate on ETH means lower difficulty so the hashrate will be distributed amongst both coins instead of just on ETH.

Full of shit topic and only noobs commenting. The biggest ROI right now is on the AMD cards. For the price of 1 nvidia 1080ti I can get 3 RX580. Amd cards can mine any algo that the nvidia can.

Only the noobs are using Nvidia because they mine with the default settings. Finely tuned RX580 can outmine Nvidia 1080 anytime.

Bitmain is pushing asics slowly to the market , asic per user , so that it take the network out of control of gpu miners to prevent hard forks

Nvidia cards are affected but not as much as AMD. Affect on Nvidia cards is more like a side-effect but AMD has become the main target due to less algos it can mine and main dependency on ETH.

Those who already have AMD rigs will continue to run them of course but no one is going to build a new AMD rig now but people will still continue to make Nvidia rigs. If you think that they both are equally affected then you can see the price difference in upcoming days b/w AMD and NVdia cards. AMD cards are going to become cheaper, I am already seeing the price cuts happening with AMD.

It will be even worse. All of ETH miners will jump in along with those who were already going to mine it. Difficulty will skyrocket.

This thing is not even a ASIC, it like a more compact panda miner but it will have an affect that no other ASIC ever had. It will disrupt the whole gpu mining network.

But I do think for some reasons that GPU miners are big believers and pillars of Ethereum. So most probably devs will change the algo but what good will it do if this is not an ASIC ?

The only soln. will be if Nvidia and/or AMD develops a new gpu which will be very efficient in mining or we need some coins that can challenge the market capital of ETH.


 

Why are you solo-ing out AMD cards? NVIDIA cards are as much affected as AMD card at this time. Difficulty affects everyone regardless and the bitmain E3 is more efficient than both AMD or NVIDIA. Could you elaborate why AMD cards are dead and NVIDIA are not? As far as i know AMD cards are even more power efficient than NVIDIA cards once modded.

Monero will be the way!
2 days for the FORK!

If you already have a mining rig with a properly fine tuned, bios modded 6x AMD cards ( rx 470-480-570-580 ), that rig basically can give you the exact hashrate/power usage just like the new E3's on ETH. If you are thinking to buy new cards right now to build a mining rig ... FORGET THAT !!!


There is some another factors you need to consider :
ETH might going to have a hard fork ,or going to POS before those E3's going to reach the customers, So there is a good chance E3's will be the same as D3's...
The biggest problem the network hashrate / difficulty is going to go the moon ... So ETH mining is likely not going to be profitable anymore, if coin prices going to stay on today levels ...
Miners going to move they rigs to mine another coins, those coins difficulty going to grow like crazy, basically killing the mining profitability for those coins.

Good job bitmain !!!

It doesn't matter if you mine ETH or not. This will affect all the coins.

Right now either newbies or big farms are the one who mine ETH. Now due to these Bitmain miners they switch to other coins.

They will come after your coin and increase the difficulty. Doesn't looks too good now eh ?

Only morons still mine ETH. There are countless more profitabla coins out there. Even ethash ones. But it takes time and dedication to follow the crypto world and know.

To be honest I am not even sure ETH is going to recover from this fall.

Yes but they will still sell and they will still mine.

Inevitable.

All Bitmain products are just tagged as *new*.. In reality, they are beeing "tested" for more than 3 months there..
My friends ordered A3 and D3.. Both came and after week of mining 1 hash board went dead.. They are selling CRAP!

will be fun in July trolls, million units of the e3 + millions of units of nvidia volta hehe, eth difficulty 5x of today hehe. Today 3.3, in august 23.7 hehe

OFC they mined the hell out of them. Now they are releasing it because they have already made enough profit and eth might go pos in future so this is the perfect time. They also have antminer F3 which I don't know if it's true or not could mine ethash at a real ASIC level.

Even this small device would kill ethash gpu mining due it's low cost and scalablity.

what if they mine with them before selling?

Nah, AMD is still in the game. Now when different Cryptonight coins will fork and thus giving us back the ability to mine them with GPUs without the ASICs in the network.

I Hope Ethereum and others Ethereum algorithm coin will fork to ASIC Resistance like Monero.
But 180 MH ASIC and for July shipment is no problem on chain.

Thanks almighty that I have only Nvidia rigs. I was going to make 12*570 or a Vega rig this month.

Nothing will happen to Nvidia cards for a long time. There are too many reputable coins of different algorithms. But looks like AMD will be completely out.

This is just the same as before that mining is dead. But honestly, for me, I still keep mining with AMD and Nvidia cards.
If you are just an investor and didn't want to lose your investment well better to exit because we don't know if altcoin mining will be profitable these coming months.
However, for real miners, they will stay and keep mining. Mining it's not about making a profit, for me, it is just for a knowledge and learning and I am happy that I enjoying mining.

Only the real miners will stay... Sheeps and easy profit makers will go away now

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.33915480

Do you think that AMD cards will be completely out of the mining game now due to ethash miners ? What is the future of Vega rigs now ?

Is there any possibility that AMD will manufacture a new gpu with mining in mind ?