Topic: American Health care: $10,169 for a blood test? (Read 2508 times)

in which you can get the blood test for free ....and you can't do so in the US, which shows how broken is the american healthcare system is

I wouldn't mind if they left the GOP out since I know most of the GOP would have to vote NO to satisfy their own base.  What is disgusting is that Blue Dog Democrats who might have at least kept some semblance of fiscal responsibility with the bill just decided to let the Scarecrow (Pelosi) write some garbage - Pelosi made out handsomely with the Solyndra-esque handouts for her day spas under the medical procedure facade.

http://hotair.com/archives/2011/05/17/1-in-5-of-latest-obamacare-waivers-went-to-nancy-pelosis-district/

$10,169 would be more than the median annual income in some developing economies. 

The GOP was not even consulted with when the ACA was being debated. The democrats were only looking after their liberal base and cut them out of the picture completely because they had a super-majority in both bodies of congress. Ironically, now the AARP is against Obamacare as they can now see how bad of a law it is.

AARP lobbied for the ACA (supposedly on behalf of seniors) to the tune of $41.6 million dollars

AARP sells secondary insurance that amends Medicare coverage.

AARP sells their coverage through United Health - one of the biggest insurers in the US.

Obama and his cabinet met with AARP on 24 occasions while the ACA was being debated.  He never met with 1 single non-lobbyist employed physician.

ACA passes and AARP is not rolling in kickbacks from selling UH policies as AARP policies - but it's all legitimate 

Because the customer isn't directly paying it.

Check this:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/post/how-much-does-an-appendectomy-cost-somewhere-between-1529-and-186955/2012/04/24/gIQAMeKMeT_blog.html

At one hospital in California, an appendectomy costs $186,955. This can be done for $1,500 in Belarus or $3,000 in Thailand.

Appendectomy is a very simple surgical procedure and it takes less than 90 minutes to perform it. The average hospital stay is 2 to 3 days. Now the question is why the hospitals are charging $200K for just 90 minutes of medical procedure?

As long as half of Americans think that any government intervention in healthcare is socialism we will never be able to even have an open honest conversation regarding universal healthcare. Obamacare is a pathetic compromise that does almost nothing to improve our current healthcare system

I am curious if that law was lobbied for by healthcare providers to protect their own profits. I also take issue with the government pandering to such special interests, however, that is a whole separate debate

People do not pay $10k for the test.  Insurance companies are billed $10k for the test.  The policy holder gets stuck holding the bag if the insurance doesn't pay.

personally I would love to see insurance companies destroyed.  I love capitalism.  I hate crony capitalism where people can bribe officials to make sure their business suceeds while others fail.

If you walked into Quest or Labcorp and offered $25 cash they would draw the lipid panel.  Or you can just buy the mail in kits.

If America went full socialized the cheating companies will sleep with the politicians legally and have monopolistic ownership over healthcare industries - only a tad bit worse than what we have now.

$10,169 for a lipid test seems absurd. I can't imagine any insurance company just paying that without looking into the charge.

Why do you believe that? Why do you have to pay for others expenses?

How do you think public services are paid?

I believe a socialistic system is the right way for such services as healthcare/emergency services and water etc. People definitely shouldnt be paying 10k for a bloodtest. How can anyone actually be expected to pay that much?

The US does this in some areas since not all common public service are nationalized, particularly with fire-fighting service. In some areas, people effectively pay a kind of "fire insurance," and if you pay, firefighters will fight fires threatening your house. If you don't, they might bring a truck to sit around and make sure it doesn't spread to fine, paying customers. You could pay for "fire insurance" or pay at point of use. Some states will reimburse local property taxes for the poor (or those who otherwise have little to no state income tax liability) which usually pay for these kinds of services, but many don't, and in cases where they don't, these are non-progressive fees, which are pretty unusual in the US.

Anyway -- since none of this is nationalized and the US has very rich and very poor communities which rarely integrate too much, you will find lesser public service in rural, and especially poor areas. I'm assuming this is relevant to point out since I'm thinking you say taxes and mean them to be what're effectively progressive annual fees, so the poor can expect a certain standard of public service. It's very nuanced in the US, varying state by state and town by town (and county by county, too, if the town isn't independent -- and some towns will form financial agreements with each other, so maybe two or a few towns will come together to fund a public school system which serves all of their towns), but the US does federally fund a small portion of most local public services, and many states try to enforce minimum standards of funding regardless of local wealth, too... but no local government could operate any kind of fire or police force, or have any kind of meaningful education system on federal or even state dollars alone, so it does still largely come down to whether or not the people of a town are poor or wealthy with regards to the quality of their public services; very, very few public services in the US are particularly "progressive."

ETA: As an aside - everything looks more unified and federalized than it really is because federal and state block grant systems are functionally like systemic government-to-government blackmail. They hold funds hostage until community services do this, this, and that -- and the federal government will hold funds hostage from states until they do this, this, and that. Nobody wants to lose the money, of course, even if it doesn't make up the bulk of revenues, so they go along with it.

If they are paid by taxes, they aren't free. Do you think that we aren't already paying for police and fire services? We are, but instead of paying for them voluntarily, and only for what we spend, the government steals us to pay for everyone.

In most European countries, Healthcare is viewed as an essential public service, alongside the police and fire brigade, coastguard and military, etc..
All these are paid for through taxes, not at point of use.
Do you think you should have to pay for police services? How about fire services?

Free? How?. Do you want doctors to work for free, as slaves? Or with "free" do you mean charging others for it, no matter if they agree or not?

Maybe, but I think people should just visit surrounding areas when they have an issue to get an idea of what and how different places charge. I've found it's a downright stupid idea to ever go to a hospital for anything except maybe cancer or organ failure. Every hospital and hospital-owned clinic I've gone to charges obscene amounts for everything. There are independent clinics here in Nowhere, though, which charge a very reasonable amount - less than my independent GP's office, actually. They bring in hospital doctors on rotation who do clinic duty more as a public service, though they're paid and the clinic's self-funded. A sprained ankle cost ~$80, while at a hospital, this is ~$1200. An ancient can of varnish exploded in my hands when helping a relative move, and some got into my eyes, but the clinic gave me a, frankly, generous invoice for $20 for a thorough examination. I have BCBS insurance, but the co-pay and deductibles after it's known I'm using insurance are higher than just paying everything in cash in most instances, and it's still much cheaper to go to the clinic paying in cash than the hospital with insurance even for bigger issues. In general, I'd guess if someone's organs are all still contained within themselves, they're conscious, and they don't need extremely complicated or rare treatment, they should probably avoid hospitals if possible and'll be rewarded with a bill for pennies on the dollar, relatively. OTOH, the hospital around here publishes the number of uninsured people who skipped out on their bill in annual reports they mail to all residents like it's part of their community service, so... *shrug*

In the varnish case, too, I was actually fully reimbursed by my relative's home insurance company quickly and with no fuss (they insisted I file a claim since they're moving, anyway).

What happens in USA is precisely because of government interventionism. They subsidize health care by giving tax incentives.

American healthcare is a joke. Healthcare should be fundamental human right and free for everyone. Nobody should be paying for healthcare in a civilizied society.

5 years ago I would have agreed with you.

I am boarded and am re-certifying my boards this year.  It's basically extortion by the medical establishment and doesn't really focus on ensuring physicians meet any standards of care since lot of the stuff in the boards is stuff that is not pertinent to real world application.

I would recommend having a malpractice attorney do a little digging for $50 or $100 and they can find out quickly what suits any physicians has been involved in.  State Medical Boards are pretty much useless.  Hire a private attorney if you want to know a physician's history.

The only reason I am retaking my boards is because I need to be boarded to keep my license in CA.  Otherwise the boards are just a scam.  A physician who keeps up with modern CMEs and attends meetings at the local hospital will be more up to date that one who just passes test after test without any meaningful understanding of population and demographic changes.

No. May be that is the case in Russia, but in the EU nations there is absolutely no delay.


Doctors in the EU earn almost as much as their counterparts in the US. The difference is that the middlemen don't walk away with a significant amount of money, as it happens in the US.

The second part of your argument is not supported by facts. Russia, which is having more doctors per capita than the US pays only around $1,000 to $5,000 per month for its doctors, while those in the US are paid up to $40,000 per month. And still, there is a shortage of medical seats in Russia and the demand is lower in the US. But off course, medical education in Russia costs only 1/20th of the same in the US.

If someone spends a decade in post-secondary school becoming a doctor they are going to expect to earn a lot, or else they will not spend this amount of time working on this goal.

Don't go to board UNcertified doctors.

You also have to wait a lot longer to get the same procedures, sometimes resulting in a surgery being unnecessary because the patient has either died or the problem has become so severe that surgery would not be effective.

I don't think you understand that if you make these things cost less unilaterally then the people who perform these services will ultimately get paid less which would mean less people would enter the field and those that do enter the medical field will be less qualified.

The US healthcare is one of the most broken healthcare system among 1st world countries heck even some 3rd world countries has a better system, and sadely this isn't a problem of $$ but it is more related to mismanagement and strong lobbying from the private sector, and this is why I disagree with total capitalism and liberalism economy/politcal system and prefer a system that associate capitalism with socialism to keep a certain balance in sociaty

Hard to target the insurance sector if they already have their hands full of cookies.

They probably spend much of their profit lobbying the congress for even more rules in their favor.

This is how the greedy insurance companies are squeezing the hard working American citizen. Forget about the blood test, every single type of medical treatment in the US costs as much as 500 to 1,000% more than what it costs in the EU. A surgery which costs $100,000 in the US can be performed for just $15,000 in Belgium, or $10,000 in Russia. Only one solution for this. Nationalize the healthcare sector.

What the report didn't mention is the blood test come with a hand job from a hot blonde nurse.

Still think it is over price?

This is the magic of government's interventionism. Everything government touches turns into crap.

Yeah, it's really amusing that someone in the USA would pop up and say "I'm Soooooo glad we have the Affordable Heath Care Act, because I would never have been able to pay the $10,000 for a blood test!"

Note the underlying problems are not touched, nor talked about.  But the political "solution" that allows massive graft and corruption, layered on top of a dysfunction insurance driven non free market system, is advocated.

Well, what should we expect?  Should we expect them to push for a system that didn't allow for graft and corruption?

Im glad I live in a country like Denmark..

If you get hurt, you either call 112 or you go to the ER yourself..
You get fixed up, and if you need meds for it then you can choose to get something for free, or some premium meds that cost a little..

You dont need a medical insurance like the US.. You are born with one, and you dont pay for it..

Its basicly free for everyone in Denmark.

(Ofc its paid through tax.. But we dont pay tax and get 1000$+ bills from a hospital)

Sound more like the insurance industry is colluding with the medical industry to overcharge your company for insurance coverage. Ultimately, it is you who have to pay the cost in term of lower salary and benefit.

I think it's more along the lines of specific blood tests, I had a blood test earlier this year and it cost $8000, but it was looking for a specific rare disease that thankfully, I didn't have, but insurance did cover it.

Which kind of test? Complete blood count or something more specific?

In any case, $10000 it's hilarious... In commercial clinics here in Moscow, the cost of a general analysis of blood varies from 1500 to 2100 rubles (ie from 42 to 60 dollars). In public hospitals this can be done for free, if you have physician's referral.

Actually, these kinds of issues, such as $10k for a blood test, validate a lot of the arguments that the anti-ACA people have been saying all along.

You don't take a broke system, then shove lots of government money at it.

You fix the system.

Again, these RWNJ's seem to have little respect for a human life.

My friend is alive because of ACA - allowing her t obtain insurance coverage in spite of preexisting conditions and testing proved her cancer and now she's finished 6 chemo treatments.  Wednesday her doc will view her scans and tell her she's ok - or that she needs more chemo.

I am hoping for the best, of course. 

Beside, one cannot have an intelligent conversation about ACA with RWNJ's - they are illogical and too political to be honest.

I had blood work done in April and it was over $740.  I was SHOCKED!!!  I have blood work routinely but it's never cost more than $400.

I paid it in thirds.  Who has $700 sitting around?

Actually if you wanted it to stop you do away with insurance… Make everyone pay for their care out of their own pocket…

Doctors used to do house calls for a couple of chickens…

Then came along insurance…

Look what it cost to fix a car before mandatory car insurance came along.

But actually the price of the blood test is nothing compared to what it's going to be now that health insurance is mandatory…

I do tell people if they want their problem fixed in one visit just tell them you don't have any insurance… Years ago I had an issue and did not have insurance and in one office visit I got what was needed to take care of it… It reoccurs every so often and now with insurance, it's a doctors visit, three specialist, CAT scan, and then finally some antibiotics… and I tell them why not just give me the antibiotic , we can skip all the other stuff

One effect of socialism on hospitals is to take institutions that were once do-gooder, non profit institutions and turn them into a machine that sucks on a government tit, while overcharging the paying customer.

Notice there's no consumer protection agency rooting for the customer of PRIVATELY PAID health care costs.

These are hospitals clearly taking advantage. A lot of people don't have the luxury of shopping around for the best price hospital or what if it's an emergency?

It's unfortunate how for-profit these medical institutions are instead of helping those that are sick/injured.

Well one big issue is hospitals lose money from the uninsured who come in to the ER room all the time with everything from a simple cough to a broken leg and never pay their bill. The cost to pay for all these people ends up getting passed on to the paying consumer.

Prices are the way they are because insurance companies will pay whatever the hospital charges, mainly due to corruption and institutionalized cronyism, which is why handing obamacare over to the insurance companies was a huge joke to begin with. The cure is to stop electing the same assholes that work for the insurance companies as politicians and hospital boards.
That's not going to happen.

http://news.yahoo.com/10-169-blood-test-everything-170003116.html

$10K for a simple blood test? This is outrageous. To say things are out of control with our health care is an understatement. It certainly shows you or a family member should ask up front what costs are at any hospital you are admitted into. What I would like to know is what [if anything] can be done to bring these prices back to realistic levels? Why can't there be equal billing right across the board? Isn't this something federal regulation should take care of? What would you do if you were handed a hospital bill that would drive you into bankruptcy or selling everything you own to pay? What can be done?