Topic: An easy way to overcome China and Russia (Read 277 times)

If Putin swallows Ukraine, his appetite will increase and the Eastern Europe will be next. And the big war with nukes will become even more probable.

I am not sure how well that would play out for people from Russia and China to enjoy better life standards and not to be oppressed by the will and whims of dictators. You proposal is basically to threaten making use of an over-measured action against something which would not usually start a conflict. What would be the warranty either China or Russia won't give an over-measured response back after the initial thread from the Western qualition? To me, rather than helping people who are living oppressed lives in those countries, this sounds like a way to rapidly devolve the situation into a hot war with those countries, the kind of direct conflict which could end up with the existence of the human race on this planet. Not thank you... I would rather to read different ideas besides this one.

^^^ China might disagree with using nukes just like Russia does. How do we know that Russia Disagrees with using nukes? They haven't used them, even though they could have, and have good reason to. Nobody disagrees with threatening, just to remind the other side that the nukes are there.

China's lack of unconditional support of Russia in the war is based on many things. After all, China and the US do business every day.

China supports the goal of undermining Western influence. But it disagrees with some of Russia's tactics, one of which is Moscow's threat to use nuclear weapons. China is fully aware of the consequences of giving unconditional support to Russia in this situation the country is constantly revising its strategies to increase its acceptance in the international arena.

The fact that the West holds the mantle the world leadership doesn't mean it should be abused by oppressing others. Not even the West that's been so clean from corruptions and basing its governing system in the demands of their citizens. They ask do have their flux of inconveniences and not to say that everything is just working out perfectly there.
Putin taking down some of those social channels is strickly for security purposes and considering propagandas to be limited.
Indeed the US won't keep being the world power because other countries such as the China is a major outstanding threat to take over the USAs ground.

It seems that a 'formerly' secret US plan to defeat/destroy China and Russia has been found out.

Notice that this info is from Natural News.. Check the bibliography whenever looking at NN stories, to see that what they say isn't a NN fabrication.


Declassified documents reveal US secret nuclear war project named “SIOP,” aimed at killing Russians and Chinese people

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https://www.naturalnews.com/2024-06-07-us-secret-nuclear-war-project-kill-russians-chinese.html
Many cannot help but suspect that the United States, through countries like Ukraine and possibly Taiwan, has been inciting proxy wars to get on with its 1960s plan to mount a nuclear war with Russia and its top ally, China. Declassified documents posted twenty years ago indicate the creation of the Single Integrated Operational Plan (SIOP) six decades ago, that would "kill a lot of Russians and Chinese." According to the documents at the National Security Archive at George Washington University, the U.S. included so many nuclear weapons in its first missile-age plan for nuclear war that top military commanders called it a "hazard to ourselves as well as our enemy."

SIOP has been one of the most secret and sensitive issues in U.S. national security policy because it indicates a massive nuclear strike on military and urban-industrial targets in the Soviet Union (Russia), China and their allies. It originally included a complex organizational scheme involving the interaction of targeting, weapons delivery systems and flight paths, nuclear detonations over targets, measurements of devastation and defensive measures and successive SIOPs that would become even more complex. Under the secret plan, a Russian city would receive three 80-kiloton weapons.

Then outgoing President Dwight D. Eisenhower, along with the Navy leaders and White House Science Adviser George Kistiakowsky, were deeply critical of the SIOP's overkill. The late president even said that the plan "frightened the devil out of him." Incoming Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara soon decried the "fantastic" levels of fallout that attacks on a multitude of Soviet targets would produce.
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A typical example of warmongering citizen filled with western propaganda. Bring in if you dare, the western neo-imperialism would be destroyed once and for all.

I think that even now, when most Russians have become insane fascists, it is easy for the USA to overcome Putin if they do this in such a way:
1) Declare, that in the case of "Nuclear armageddon" (massive nuclear war), if many Russian missiles will be launched to the USA, USA will launch missiles in retalliation not only to Russia but also to Chine;
2) Declare, that the USA plan to join the war in Ukraine;
3) Declare, that they will stop doing that. either if China will join the sanctions against Russia, or if in Russia a referendum would be pefromed with the suggestion to calcel censorship in the internet and political repressions.
These declarations must be maid as publicly as possible, so that all Russians know them and the nuclear threats of Putin will lower his rating in Russia.
I am sure that Russians will be unable to fight in such a war, because the Russian soldiers will suffer from a cognitive dissonance - what are they fighting for? For prohibiting this referendum?

It is easy to talk about the lack of democracy or actual democracy in the west or even in the United States, but wil actually ignore the problems with democracy in countries like Gaza, Iran, Russia or China?
If we assume that in the United States democracy is actually an illusion and there is only one big party behind the curtains, it would equivalent to say they are not different from what we see in China, which would be difficult to prove, though.

It is true that there are many similarities between the republican party and the democrat party: both accept donations from big corporations and entities, both promote capitalism and free market to some extent. I believe the one of the major differences between them is the fact democrats want to further enhance the taxation system and distribute wealth using already existing systems (also there is a clear point of view to control the access to guns to some extent). The republican party wants to cut taxes to the rich and make easier to anyone to get a weapon for the sake of freedom.

I don't like such posts; I have come to the conclusion that almost all problems of the western countries are caused by a lack of democracy.
I think that currenly e.g. in the USA there is a hidden union between the leftists and the rightists, and maybe it will be correct to say that the political system in US is in fact one-party, not two-parties.

I personally manage the theory that Russia is actually less likely to engage in a catastophic nuclear confrontation, since the have gotten previous experiences with nuclear incidents and also with nuclear testings which could have gone out of hand (for their own perspectives).  It comes to mind the nuclear accident of Chernobil and also the Tzar Bomb.
Still, I still agree with you in the indirect approach to deal with authoritarian regimes like those in China and Russia, sanctions are restrictions around the world banking system are better than pushing those regimes towards the edge and risk total destruction of both sides.
Whether we like it or not, we live in a sort of cold war, but now between capitalism systems instead a Soviet vs capitalist scenario.

Brics is a strong umbrella for those two countries in question and trying to armtwist them is surely going to be a dangerous effort.

Democracy is preached in the world but is not making the world any better both in economy and sociopolitical relationship and that gets me to view it as illusion. Many countries have been in war despite the UN and order organisation that try to bring government into one fold yet they fail to bring peace to the global space.

I really don’t think it is a good idea to threaten direct conflict towards China & Russia. They are very dangerous countries, they will not think twice about serious actions & retaliation which would be catastrophic. There has to be other ways to deal with powerful, dangerous nations like those mentioned. Sanctions & cutting them off from well known banking systems is a much better idea. In the days where nuclear war is a real possibility, it’s best not to antagonise them.

The same authoritarian governments we talk of here have come together to form a front that can face the West and it's allies to challenge and undermine them using Brics which is growing at a fast rate as they strategically position themselves to take the lead role. And to make things worse Democracy today is a scam, too many shadow investors tipping the odds in their favour and apparently these guys with interests are coming from both the East and West.

That's an interesting question. First of all it was in 41 that the US joined WW2 and the date is significant, because it was in December, the same month when the attack on Pearl Harbor happened
The US did not join the war like that, out of the blue. They were attacked and in a way participated in the conflict before that by sending aid to the Allies.

OP is talking about one country attacking another to change the political system. That's more comparable to what Nazis were trying to achieve in Europe, especially in Russia, since they were driven by hate towards communism, while being socialists themselves. This is a joke when we look at it today, since communism and socialism are very similar systems, based on the same principles and in 1940s communists hated imperialists and socialists hated communists. Nowadays, socialists hate capitalism, and new evolved socialists that call themselves democrats hate conservatism. I'd say it's a comedy but it's not, it's a tragicomedy.

    I know that dialogue is always seen as the option of the weak but it is my best position anytime any day. However, there is no easy way to stop Russia and China because these nations are superpowers and have great influence in the global economic and military space. Declaring war on Russia or China is like starting World War 3 and the effect of such war will take centuries for the world to recover.
     The only people that can bring Xi Jinping down are his people the Chinese and if you want to stop Putin instigate a mutiny. So the easiest way to overcome these two leaders is to facilitate the overthrow of these leaders because history has shown that great leaders can easily be dethroned internally rather than through external aggression. This option is also very difficult to apply because it seems that these two leaders enjoy the support of the citizens of their respective nations. Let's just give peace a chance and stop the killings.

"America first"? What do you think could happen if US supported this movement in 1940th (if it didn't take part in the war against Germany)?

I would have not been able to use better words that you have.
People talking about war and geopolitics on Twitter have not idea on the human implications of the deployment of troops and the supply of weapons to a country (regardless on what side one must be) in the end, we could argue that those who move onto Ukraine because the wishes of Putin are being pushed to their demise and because causes and ideals they may not even share with the Kremlin.
On the other hand, people who stay and take arms to defend their country would also likely to find their demise, but unlike the invaders, is their families and friends who are being put at risk because of the selfish ambitions of people in positions of power in Russia.

Are you willing to die to spread democracy, or any other values that you believe in? It's easy to say that you'd change this or that or you'd send soldiers here or there, but if they told you to go fight and possibly die for such cause in another country, that doesn't give a shit about you, would you? You'd be like those Russian soldiers who went to fight Putin's war in another country and ended up in mass graves, buried by their own comrades, without as much as a name for others to remember. I would not start a war for any of such causes because at war you're no longer a man, but a resource that's moved around.

I agree with you, even if we consider the ongoing war with Russia and Ukraine, it has affected so many business economy and things have changed in more than expected ways, now if Russia and China being one of the strongest world's largest economy should shut down, things are going to go wrong and this time, not only EU will be affected, the entire world because there's more dependency on this two countries especially China because they are largely into production and engage massively on exportations of their internally produce items to other part of the world.

Actually, there is a factor which you are not keeping in mind when talking about both Russia and China closing their doors to the west and it is the fact China is dependent to the demand for products and services from western clients, specially those in the United States. China (unlike Russia) is a giant factory of a country which needs to keep the inflow of money from USA companies to stay thriving and alive, the same way USA needs to have a clear comercial relation with China, because USA manufacture their products there. Hence the reason USA cannot impose sanctions on China, the same way it has been done against Russia.
If China isolated itself it would translate into a high damage to themselves

It's actually ironic to compare hilter with Putin.
From what was written about hilter, it seems he was a globalist-nazi whose sole agenda was to conquer and rule the world. Putin doesn't seem like that kind of person. He doesn't have that kind of lust for power, and I don't see much desire to conquer or rule other nations in him. He's more interested in Russia and very defensive of her against nazis that tried to conquer/weaken her via choas.
The evil entity behind hitler is actually thesame entity that is behind those fighting to conquer and weaken Russia. The way Russia behaved in the conflict between her and Ukraine is quite opposite of what hitler would have done.


In regards to encouraging democracy and liberalization in Russia, I don't think Russia needs that. What every nation on Earth needs is rule based leadership/governance, with golden rule of Love for GOD & man. The rule has to be good or atleast fair to work in different countries & their own unique circumstances. Whatever ideology you want others to adopt has to be according to the good rules that factor in  their unique circumstances. You would be surprised how well the countries progress when they stick to good rule-based constitutions.

you have a point only the U.S can sustain it's economy for a while due to their capability to handle its economy and influence it's foreign policies to the third world countries

So Western countries decide everything no matter what? To be honest only US can sustain for a while if Russia and China shut their door and most EU countries will go bankrupt and wake up to the reality there is already a switch in the super powers and we are in transition period and in a decade or two the China will become the new US.

When Napoleon invaded Russia, he could choose a very simple way to win - liberate the peasants. But he appeared not to be smart enough for this. Now the story continues, possibly..
By the way, do you know that when Prigozhin moved toward Moscow in June, the Russian army units surrended to him?

These countries you mentioned will see such approach as infringement on its right to the choice governance as an independent country. And me and you know that they (the ruling class) wouldn't want to fold their hands and watch. They will the fight squarely against any external force and guess what? They have allies who are ever ready to support them. All the the countries in the universe won't practice at the same time.

Are you aware that would be quite a risky approach to take when comes to dealing with China and Russia, OP? There is a good reason neither the United States nor the Western allies have considered to do such thing like demand political change by directly threatening the Kremlin or Pekín; even if a big percentage of people in those countries are not willing to fight for their leaders, it does not mean those leaders won't force them to do so, the military there is pretty much in the side of those regimes and whether we agree with it or not, destroying key infrastructure like those used for communication could easily devolve into a causus belli.
Just think about it, North Korea is of the size of a fraction of both Russia and China but USA does not dare to deal with them directly, because their weapons and the human cost of it would be too high to try to break a fragile peace.

No matter what goes on among people and nations, the whole plan that is done, is the plan that God wants done. Isaiah 28:29:

I think that currently the politicians in democracies do not understand how they should confront authoritarian regimes like China and Russia. It can be very simple – threatening such regimes a war unless they choose political liberalization.
When Hitler started oppressing mass media in 1933, the France could threaten him – stop this unless we start a war. I am sure this was an easy way to prevent all horrors of the WW2. The Germans were eager to fight for their country, their “fatherland” as they understood it; but could they fight for political repressions in Germany, for closing independent mass media? I am sure that no. The same could happen in 2003 in Russia, when Putin started to take away the TV channels from Russian Oligarchs (NTV Ren TV).
And it is not too late to perform this now. Possibly soon Putin will block youtube in Russia (if not – eventually youtube will destroy the state propaganda in Russia). If the West threatens in this case the missile strikes on Russian centers of state TV channels – this will easily end the rule of Putin in Russia. The Russians surely will not fight for blocking youtube, for supporting the Putin’s lies.
The same with China. If I am not mistaken, the Chinese people are quite unhappy with the digital totalitarianism (state social rating) and surely will not fight for it.

I don't plagiarize