An innovative no-code trading platform, what are your thoughts on this?

Symmetrick

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Quote from: thecryptogandalf on May 20, 2022, 05:00:23 AM

But they do have more tools in their arsenal to identify their weaknesses and easily apply some measures.

The weaknesses of 99.99% of traders are not a meager set of tools (by the way, far from all experienced traders use the full set of tools, such as trailing stop or other ecotic types of orders that are not found on all exchanges), they are first of all themselves, their knowledge, their thinking and their psychology, your tools will not help them in any way.

Quote from: thecryptogandalf on May 20, 2022, 05:00:23 AM

If the problems remain until you fix them, why wouldn't you want to use every tool available to fix them faster? Cleo doesn't aim to be THE solution, the ultimate financial hack the rich people don't want you to know about

We aim to be a tool that makes trading easier and gets you to the finish line (reliable profitability) faster.

Interesting, let's imagine the situation. I am a trader who does not know how to trade futures, I came to your platform, what tools do you mean to simplify trading? Just don't tell me that more types of orders will be available to me, it won't solve anything at all.

Quote from: thecryptogandalf on May 20, 2022, 05:00:23 AM

"Unless you figure out on your own how to trade well you have no chance". How is this attitude useful to the newcomers? There are hundreds of thousands of new retail traders every year and the vast majority blows up their account and never trades again. Seems like they could use any help they can get.

Crypto margin trading is the most dangerous and risky type of trading, the main mistake of these beginners who get into trading is that they try to trade derivatives without experience, although they have absolutely no positive trading experience on the spot.

Symmetrick

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Quote from: thecryptogandalf on May 19, 2022, 08:34:44 AM

But let's not kid ourselves - exchange does not have inherent desire to help you be profitable in any way. The majority of futures traders lose money, precisely because they don't have any risk management tools, that would help them understand what risk they are getting into before they place the trade. And this is just a first kick off - loop trading is in the works, backtesting and paper trading is in the works, social trading where you can get copied or copy others is in the works, trailing stop loss is in the works, stop loss and take profit placed as a multiple of ATR is in the works and much much more. We aim to grow into ultimate trading tool. You just have to start somewhere, no?

This is not a problem of exchanges as platforms, it is a problem of traders that they cannot control their risks and they do not have a trading strategy that would solve some critical moments that develop in the market, whether it is a solid security of their position or a minimum leverage, which will help to survive even a major fall. The fact that a trader will install your platform and start trading futures with it does not mean at all that he will now have less problems with money management and risk. The problems will remain and will recur until he identifies these vulnerabilities in his trading strategy and eliminates them.

It's like improving the quality of your driving skills in a car with the help of some applications and specialized programs. Until a person himself develops the necessary reactions and a sense of his own car, nothing will help.

thecryptogandalf

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Quote from: Symmetrick on May 19, 2022, 01:54:03 PM

This is not a problem of exchanges as platforms, it is a problem of traders that they cannot control their risks and they do not have a trading strategy that would solve some critical moments that develop in the market, whether it is a solid security of their position or a minimum leverage, which will help to survive even a major fall. The fact that a trader will install your platform and start trading futures with it does not mean at all that he will now have less problems with money management and risk. The problems will remain and will recur until he identifies these vulnerabilities in his trading strategy and eliminates them.

It's like improving the quality of your driving skills in a car with the help of some applications and specialized programs. Until a person himself develops the necessary reactions and a sense of his own car, nothing will help.

Quote from: Symmetrick on May 19, 2022, 01:54:03 PM

"The problems will remain and will recur until he identifies these vulnerabilities in his trading strategy and eliminates them"

I never said that all traders using our trading platform will magically be profitable and disciplined. But they do have more tools in their arsenal to identify their weaknesses and easily apply some measures.

If the problems remain until you fix them, why wouldn't you want to use every tool available to fix them faster? Cleo doesn't aim to be THE solution, the ultimate financial hack the rich people don't want you to know about

We aim to be a tool that makes trading easier and gets you to the finish line (reliable profitability) faster.

"..nothing will help"

"Unless you figure out on your own how to trade well you have no chance". How is this attitude useful to the newcomers? There are hundreds of thousands of new retail traders every year and the vast majority blows up their account and never trades again. Seems like they could use any help they can get.

Plus - using your car driving analogy - technology is actually helping modern drivers all the time. Parking sensors, cameras, and angle tracking, there are even self-driving cars these days… Technology is making your life easier. Why wouldn't we want to try to innovate the trading space?

thecryptogandalf

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Thank you very much everybody for such great comments and constructive criticisms! It is really helpful to understand your concerns.
Feel free to shoot more - any constructive criticism is more than welcome, we're building it for you so please - Tell us what you want

thecryptogandalf

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Quote from: thecryptogandalf on May 19, 2022, 08:34:44 AM

Quote from: sklopan on May 15, 2022, 08:23:41 AM

To be honest, I don’t quite understand yet - what is the peculiarity of this particular platform? I have more questions than answers so far.

The goal is to add value on top of what centralized exchange (Binance for now, we will add other exchanges soon) natively offers. If you don't see added benefit in automatizing your trading process via "if this than that" statements, or advanced risk management options in form of multiple concurring Stop Loss or Take Profit orders, or the ability to replay every position to learn from your mistakes, or any other feature that the platform brings (or will bring in the future), than there is no reason for you to use it.

But let's not kid ourselves - exchange does not have inherent desire to help you be profitable in any way. The majority of futures traders lose money, precisely because they don't have any risk management tools, that would help them understand what risk they are getting into before they place the trade. And this is just a first kick off - loop trading is in the works, backtesting and paper trading is in the works, social trading where you can get copied or copy others is in the works, trailing stop loss is in the works, stop loss and take profit placed as a multiple of ATR is in the works and much much more. We aim to grow into ultimate trading tool. You just have to start somewhere, no?

thecryptogandalf

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: thecryptogandalf on May 12, 2022, 07:22:05 AM

We have been working on building an innovative no-code trading platform cleo.finance and we are seeking feedback from traders.

With cleo.finance, traders can trade crypto futures with advanced risk controls, order management, and algorithmic executions. We need it to be tested and gather feedback from traders. There will be remuneration based on traded volume on the platform.

I have a few questions. Why does a trader even need an intermediary in the form of your platform that offers futures trading? And what is this strange condition for the mandatory creation of take profit and stop loss?

You offer to connect your account from the exchange and trade through your platform, only this complicates the very process of trading with extra obligations. If I want to trade futures, I will do it directly on the exchange without any mandatory orders. What is the purpose of this application?

Intermediary:

The goal is to add value on top of what centralized exchange (Binance for now, we will add other exchanges soon) natively offers. If you don't see added benefit in automatizing your trading process via "if this than that" statements, or advanced risk management options in form of multiple concurring Stop Loss or Take Profit orders, or the ability to replay every position to learn from your mistakes, or any other feature that the platform brings (or will bring in the future), than there is no reason for you to use it.

But let's not kid ourselves - exchange does not have inherent desire to help you be profitable in any way. The majority of futures traders lose money, precisely because they don't have any risk management tools, that would help them understand what risk they are getting into before they place the trade. And this is just a first kick off - loop trading is in the works, backtesting and paper trading is in the works, social trading where you can get copied or copy others is in the works, trailing stop loss is in the works, stop loss and take profit placed as a multiple of ATR is in the works and much much more. We aim to grow into ultimate trading tool. You just have to start somewhere, no?

Mandatory SL and TP

Not desired long term, it is sort of an inefficiency of the current "position" model design. We are removing this condition as we speak, allowing you to add or modify any protection as optional either before the entry or during the open position.

thecryptogandalf

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Quote from: crwth on May 18, 2022, 08:51:06 AM

Exciting ideas that you have there. I'm worried about connecting my account to it and having it have a security key. This is a cloud-based type of platform, right? Am I not installed directly on my PC? What if the cloud-based gets hacked or, worse, has access to accounts or something? That's going to be risky, IMO. The advantage of it being installed on my PC is that I can have restrictions on the IP using my API key. I don't want anybody to access my trading positions with my API.

What are your other strategies there as well?

Thanks a lot for such a good question. I fully understand your concerns. Here is a technical answer from the developer:

Installing software on your PC at home and whitelisting the IP, is only as secure as your home network. Those, mind you, are being breached orders of magnitude more often than cloud servers networks. So, the real question is how many and how strong "barriers" are between your API Key/Secret and potential party with bad intentions.

In Cleo there is probably nothing we take more seriously than security and that’s why try to keep up with the best industry standards. Without going too much into details, few security barriers we use include:

Main servers manipulating with sensitive data, are exposed only to internal network, and are not visible to outside world at all
Your api key/secret is not stored in single database, but is stored in 3 different places, each with separate hardware and software security protections
- You would have to breach all 3 to get access to Encrypted version of api key/secret - which doesn't help you at all

Those sensitive data are encrypted with arguably most modern and secure protocol - 256-bit AES GCM encryption (feel free to google details, or read this specification/analysis document https://eprint.iacr.org/2017/168.pdf )
- Long story short the data from database alone, encrypted with 256-bit AES GCM encryption would take 2.29*10^32 years to decrypt with current technology, which is way longer than age of our universe

Our cloud hardware is distributed and software up to date with most recent security updates
We also use more security systems to protect our users' data, but we would like to keep those private

Also its important to know, that we don’t allow keys, that have withdrawals enabled, so there is no incentive for bad actors to even try to get hold of those data.
So in the end it would be most likely easier for somebody to hack your PC than get even all encrypted data for your api key/secret from our server, even if you would teleport right next to our physical server

crwth

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https://linktr.ee/crwthopia

Exciting ideas that you have there. I'm worried about connecting my account to it and having it have a security key. This is a cloud-based type of platform, right? Am I not installed directly on my PC? What if the cloud-based gets hacked or, worse, has access to accounts or something? That's going to be risky, IMO. The advantage of it being installed on my PC is that I can have restrictions on the IP using my API key. I don't want anybody to access my trading positions with my API.

What are your other strategies there as well?

thecryptogandalf

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Quote from: Tytanowy Janusz on May 15, 2022, 01:34:34 AM

Quote from: thecryptogandalf on May 12, 2022, 07:22:05 AM

All positions traded through Cleo require you to have at least one Take Profit and Stop Loss order.

Give up on this. No one like extra limitations.

You don't need to create entry and exit conditions on instant trade. You basically set your position size and leverage, so the position is opened and closed via ST and TP. That is why that requirement exists.

thecryptogandalf

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Quote from: coinmanhere on May 16, 2022, 01:17:02 AM

Like everyone said you should provide demo account so that people can test for themselves. Don't think people are aggressive or accusing you of anything. To be Frank it looks promising but the thing is in crypto 99% of projects are scams so it is very hard to gain people interest and trust. So i suggest you start with providing Demo account.

I totally understand, demo account is planned to be implemented. For now, users can just sign up and check out the platform with a 10K USDT test account until they are connecting their Binance account.

The platform is to provide innovative trading tools to traders and give them an edge.

In terms of security, when creating an API key on Binance, users needs to edit permission section of the API KEY. Only reading and enable futures should be enabled when connecting. Users cant enable withdrawals. The platform does not have access to funds. Trades placed through API key and you can view it on your Binance account as well.

thecryptogandalf

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Quote from: Potato Chips on May 13, 2022, 05:13:28 PM

Majority are hostile to new services for safety reasons. If you want people to try your platform and get some feedback from it, I suggest working on demo accounts they can create for free.

It is on the roadmap. For now, users can just sign up and check out the platform with a 10K USDT test account until they are connecting their Binance account.

coinmanhere

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Like everyone said you should provide demo account so that people can test for themselves. Don't think people are aggressive or accusing you of anything. To be Frank it looks promising but the thing is in crypto 99% of projects are scams so it is very hard to gain people interest and trust. So i suggest you start with providing Demo account.

thecryptogandalf

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Quote from: Tytanowy Janusz on May 15, 2022, 01:34:34 AM

Quote from: thecryptogandalf on May 12, 2022, 07:22:05 AM

We need it to be tested and gather feedback from traders. There will be remuneration based on traded volume on the platform.

Just like above poster said. Don't expect that people will be acting like a testers using their own money. You need to build demo account for that.

You know what binance did when they were launching binance futures and wanted users to test it before? They announce a trading competition on demo accounts with big rewards (top volume with balance bigger than starting balance win). That way they had organic testfield with ten thousands of small investors doing as much profitable trades as they can.

https://www.binance.com/en/support/announcement/360032888452 (Wroth to add that that day bnb was worth 15$)
"All participants will be allocated 100,000 USDT in simulated funds** on each of Futures A and Futures B by signing up for both platforms. During the competition period, participants will be ranked in terms of the total USDT trading volume transacted (including both Buys and Sells) on each of their Binance Futures accounts within the simulated trading pairs.
To be eligible, participants will also be required to maintain at least the originally allocated 100,000 USDT in simulated funds in each of their futures accounts by the end of the competition period. "

Quote from: thecryptogandalf on May 12, 2022, 07:22:05 AM

All positions traded through Cleo require you to have at least one Take Profit and Stop Loss order.

Give up on this. No one like extra limitations.

The platform is tested out and it is fully working. Otherwise, as you said it has no use to ask to people test the platform with their own money. The purpose is there will be more features and additions upcoming. The goal is to know what traders want and what bothers them on the platform, what part of the platform needs to be clear, etc.

sklopan

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To be honest, I don’t quite understand yet - what is the peculiarity of this particular platform? I have more questions than answers so far.

Tytanowy Janusz

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Quote from: thecryptogandalf on May 12, 2022, 07:22:05 AM

We need it to be tested and gather feedback from traders. There will be remuneration based on traded volume on the platform.

Just like above poster said. Don't expect that people will be acting like a testers using their own money. You need to build demo account for that.

You know what binance did when they were launching binance futures and wanted users to test it before? They announce a trading competition on demo accounts with big rewards (top volume with balance bigger than starting balance win). That way they had organic testfield with ten thousands of small investors doing as much profitable trades as they can.

https://www.binance.com/en/support/announcement/360032888452 (Wroth to add that that day bnb was worth 15$)
"All participants will be allocated 100,000 USDT in simulated funds** on each of Futures A and Futures B by signing up for both platforms. During the competition period, participants will be ranked in terms of the total USDT trading volume transacted (including both Buys and Sells) on each of their Binance Futures accounts within the simulated trading pairs.
To be eligible, participants will also be required to maintain at least the originally allocated 100,000 USDT in simulated funds in each of their futures accounts by the end of the competition period. "

Quote from: thecryptogandalf on May 12, 2022, 07:22:05 AM

All positions traded through Cleo require you to have at least one Take Profit and Stop Loss order.

Give up on this. No one like extra limitations.

Potato Chips

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yesssir! 🫡

Majority are hostile to new services for safety reasons. If you want people to try your platform and get some feedback from it, I suggest working on demo accounts they can create for free.

thecryptogandalf

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Merit: 21

The new innovative no-code trading platform cleo.finance is live now and we are seeking feedback from traders.

With cleo.finance, traders can trade crypto futures with advanced risk controls, order management, and algorithmic executions. We need it to be tested and gather feedback from traders.

All positions traded through cleo.finance require you to have at least one Take Profit and Stop Loss order. You can choose from two trading modes: instant position or smart position.

Instant Position
Place a position with up to 4 Take Profit and 4 Stop Loss orders.
Feel free to check out the trading tools by signing up for free. The platform is built to help you out with the way you trade, removing complexity from trading, and giving you an edge.

Smart Position
Fully flexible and customizable entry & exit conditions using simple typing.

Position Replay
Gather valuable insight into your positions. You can watch your conditions being met in real-time, check out detailed Stop Loss and Take Profit information and much more.

We will be happy to be in touch with you and see you trying out cleo.finance.

Thank you

Topic: An innovative no-code trading platform, what are your thoughts on this? (Read 225 times)