ANACS PROCEDURE CHANGE....update | Bitcointalksearch.org

owlcatz

legendary

Activity: 3570

Merit: 1959

Quote from: JUPITYR on February 23, 2018, 05:47:57 PM

I sent one in about the same time that I just got back today. Mine was a small order though.

Hi... Do the holograms look okay on the back? Rub your finger over one. Does it flake off?

They claim i'm the ONLY Person who has complained and sent coins back over this shit - I can't be alone, I saw blazed's pics of the same shitty holo..

Thanks!

PS - Fattcatt - dropped you a pm... Wink

JUPITYR

member

Activity: 466

Merit: 74

I sent one in about the same time that I just got back today. Mine was a small order though.

Fattcatt

sr. member

Activity: 1928

Merit: 354

Sent Anacs coins 1st week in Dec........still waiting

owlcatz

legendary

Activity: 3570

Merit: 1959

That last website is like 10x worse than ANACS LOL..

Anyhow - called again today, told them again all the holos' I've seen are fuxxed and that they will be getting more returns. Surprisingly, she said I'm the first to inform them (?).... They are on crack, apparently?

Long story short - sending both coins back tomorrow for no charge other than the 3rd shipping fee - Remove hair/reholder it, and REPLACE both holograms without scratched shitty ones... Let's see how long this takes. Tongue

Has anyone got any coins back that don't have those scummy/shit holograms on the back? And am I REALLY the only one to complain so far? Even to asshole Paul, the dick who orchestrated this whole shit show and lied to us over and over..... Tongue

Blazed, what are your plans for the coins you have received so far, if you don't mind me asking? Thanks!

monkeynuts

legendary

Activity: 1252

Merit: 1259

MONKEYNUTS

Quote from: coin@coin on February 15, 2018, 05:24:33 PM

I think there's a place in the UK that grades physical BTC (CGS) I have one Casascius graded by them (bought already graded).

I will have to fish it out and see.

This is it I think: http://www.coingradingservices.co.uk/

Has anyone tried them before?

I seem to recall they changed owners after a brief period offline. I believe it was London coins who bough them... Or something like that

They used a scale out of 100, rather than 70 as well

coin@coin

legendary

Activity: 1722

Merit: 1000

I think there's a place in the UK that grades physical BTC (CGS) I have one Casascius graded by them (bought already graded).

I will have to fish it out and see.

This is it I think: http://www.coingradingservices.co.uk/

Has anyone tried them before?

JUPITYR

member

Activity: 466

Merit: 74

Quote from: Lesbian Cow on February 14, 2018, 04:56:30 AM

Quote from: Blazed on February 13, 2018, 11:40:02 PM

So what is everyone's thoughts on using ICGS? I just think it is a step backwards from ANACS and even ANACS is bottom of the barrel. I really prefer my coins slabbed because they are easier to manage and look consistent rather than 10 different types of air-tites etc... Part of me says we were getting a good deal with ANACS, but the way they handled this change was bullshit. I think we as a community should decide to either:

1) Boycott ANACS and let them know (not that they will really care)
2) Keep using ANACS and suck it up
3) Use ICGS
4) Just leave them in air-tites and continue hating on ANACS
5) ?!?!

I am going to try icgs for the time being. I refuse to go back to ANACs after the way we were just treated.

Same. While I would never say "never", the way ANACS handled this was terrible. So bad that at one point I thought they were exit scamming the 3PG industry altogether. Just ridiculous really. They would need to have make a huge overture to the community and rethink their new pricing structure.

Also, how hard is it in this day and age to have a decent looking website? They look like they are still using a Frontpage template from the 90's.

Lastly, as I understood it from the person I spoke to at ANACS, all that was changing about he slabs was the labels and not the slabs themselves. Was anyone else under the impression that they were changing the entire slab? I guess we will find out shortly one way or another.

I will be trying ICG as well for the next round and see how that goes.

Lesbian Cow

legendary

Activity: 3066

Merit: 1757

Quote from: Blazed on February 13, 2018, 11:40:02 PM

So what is everyone's thoughts on using ICGS? I just think it is a step backwards from ANACS and even ANACS is bottom of the barrel. I really prefer my coins slabbed because they are easier to manage and look consistent rather than 10 different types of air-tites etc... Part of me says we were getting a good deal with ANACS, but the way they handled this change was bullshit. I think we as a community should decide to either:

1) Boycott ANACS and let them know (not that they will really care)
2) Keep using ANACS and suck it up
3) Use ICGS
4) Just leave them in air-tites and continue hating on ANACS
5) ?!?!

I am going to try icgs for the time being. I refuse to go back to ANACs after the way we were just treated.

Blazed

legendary

Activity: 2128

Merit: 1119

So what is everyone's thoughts on using ICGS? I just think it is a step backwards from ANACS and even ANACS is bottom of the barrel. I really prefer my coins slabbed because they are easier to manage and look consistent rather than 10 different types of air-tites etc... Part of me says we were getting a good deal with ANACS, but the way they handled this change was bullshit. I think we as a community should decide to either:

1) Boycott ANACS and let them know (not that they will really care)
2) Keep using ANACS and suck it up
3) Use ICGS
4) Just leave them in air-tites and continue hating on ANACS
5) ?!?!

digicoinuser

legendary

Activity: 2702

Merit: 1072

Quote from: Lesbian Cow on February 13, 2018, 03:14:07 PM

Quote from: JUPITYR on February 13, 2018, 03:12:37 PM

Quote from: johnny211 on February 13, 2018, 02:57:51 PM

It seems part of the issue here are potential grading fees being too low, considering the insurance requirements etc for high-value items.

Would it make sense for a crypto-grading service to charge a percentage of face value? It would allow cheaper items to be graded while still budgeting for necessary security regarding funded items.

Would you pay more if you could get what you want?

Since values change drastically all the time, I would say that charging based upon value doesn't work. However, you could have a pricing matrix based upon a sliding value scale as declared by the submitter for insurance purposes. Again, this is assuming that we are talking about NGC or PCGS. I would not pay any sort of premium to ANACS or ICG.

Someone should put out a monthly "Grey Sheet" for crypto coin values. I would pay a monthly fee to subscribe just like I do with the Grey Sheet

I like the Grey Sheet idea and after buying coin books for years I think that'd be appropriate. I'm also patiently waiting to see what these new slabs look like. Grin

JUPITYR

member

Activity: 466

Merit: 74

Funny, we keep saying "someone should do X, or someone should do Y". I have a feeling we are really just talking about one of us on this board. Cheesy

A price guide of some sort would be cool. Maybe a site that just tracks eBay sold auctions. There was a site like that for collectibles back in the day. And comic books have an online real-time price guide of some sort.

Lesbian Cow

legendary

Activity: 3066

Merit: 1757

Quote from: JUPITYR on February 13, 2018, 03:12:37 PM

Quote from: johnny211 on February 13, 2018, 02:57:51 PM

It seems part of the issue here are potential grading fees being too low, considering the insurance requirements etc for high-value items.

Would it make sense for a crypto-grading service to charge a percentage of face value? It would allow cheaper items to be graded while still budgeting for necessary security regarding funded items.

Would you pay more if you could get what you want?

Since values change drastically all the time, I would say that charging based upon value doesn't work. However, you could have a pricing matrix based upon a sliding value scale as declared by the submitter for insurance purposes. Again, this is assuming that we are talking about NGC or PCGS. I would not pay any sort of premium to ANACS or ICG.

Someone should put out a monthly "Grey Sheet" for crypto coin values. I would pay a monthly fee to subscribe just like I do with the Grey Sheet

JUPITYR

member

Activity: 466

Merit: 74

Quote from: johnny211 on February 13, 2018, 02:57:51 PM

It seems part of the issue here are potential grading fees being too low, considering the insurance requirements etc for high-value items.

Would it make sense for a crypto-grading service to charge a percentage of face value? It would allow cheaper items to be graded while still budgeting for necessary security regarding funded items.

Would you pay more if you could get what you want?

Since values change drastically all the time, I would say that charging based upon value doesn't work. However, you could have a pricing matrix based upon a sliding value scale as declared by the submitter for insurance purposes. Again, this is assuming that we are talking about NGC or PCGS. I would not pay any sort of premium to ANACS or ICG.

Lesbian Cow

legendary

Activity: 3066

Merit: 1757

Quote from: johnny211 on February 13, 2018, 02:57:51 PM

It seems part of the issue here are potential grading fees being too low, considering the insurance requirements etc for high-value items.

Would it make sense for a crypto-grading service to charge a percentage of face value? It would allow cheaper items to be graded while still budgeting for necessary security regarding funded items.

Would you pay more if you could get what you want?

They should charge more, and yes it should be based on the coin's value so that the coins can be properly insured when in transit and when in possession of the grading company.

I regularly send coins to PCGS and that is how they charge, tiered based on coin's market value.

20,000$ coin is 60$ and change while a 100,000$ coin is around 150.

They also force you to do express on the high value coins so it is only in their possession for just a few days. That's smart and their insurance company probably demanded it to minimize risk/exposure.

Charging the same fee no matter the value of the coin tells me that not only is our stuff not insured in shipping for its full value but also is not while in ANAC's possession.

Their insurers, if they are insured at all (i suspect they self insure) would shit if they knew they had 100k plus of my coins for 2 months. I plan to make a lot of noise once my stuff is back. My attorney has already drafted a letter. My coins decreased in value by 50% while they held them hostage to wait for a new label I don't even want. FUCK ANACS!

johnny211

full member

Activity: 170

Merit: 104

It seems part of the issue here are potential grading fees being too low, considering the insurance requirements etc for high-value items.

Would it make sense for a crypto-grading service to charge a percentage of face value? It would allow cheaper items to be graded while still budgeting for necessary security regarding funded items.

Would you pay more if you could get what you want?

JUPITYR

member

Activity: 466

Merit: 74

Quote from: Blazed on February 13, 2018, 11:34:56 AM

Quote from: JUPITYR on February 13, 2018, 07:22:20 AM

Quote from: Blazed on February 13, 2018, 12:32:34 AM

Quote from: JUPITYR on February 12, 2018, 10:24:13 PM

Quote from: Blazed on February 12, 2018, 06:09:04 PM

Quote from: digicoinuser on February 11, 2018, 10:41:47 PM

Quote from: owlcatz on February 11, 2018, 10:28:52 PM

Quote from: JUPITYR on February 11, 2018, 10:27:36 PM

I've always had a good experience with ICG on my regular coin submissions. Haven't tried any cryptos yet, but will be in the future. $29 is total BS for ANACS to be charging.

I agree that ANACS sucks and is considered #3 grading wise after PCGS and NGC. I think it sucks to move from the 3rd best to the 4th best service though. Why even bother grading these if the name on the slab is considered crap? I only graded coins in the past for higher resale values (buy the coin sell the slab). Personally, I am done grading these coins until PCGS or NGC starts accepting them. I think we should really reach out to them and see what it takes for them to grade for us.

Also, while the premium is nice for slabbed coins, I primarily send cryptos in to be graded for the presentation and storage value. Also, slabbing coins in any holder (ICG or ANACS) potentially extends the life of the holograms by being less exposed to the elements. Just another thought to consider.

JUPITYR

member

Activity: 466

Merit: 74

Quote from: Lesbian Cow on February 13, 2018, 12:13:29 PM

Quote from: JUPITYR on February 13, 2018, 12:09:26 PM

I think that convincing NGC or PCGS to grade cryptos will be a real uphill battle. First off, the potential legal risk of authenticating cryptos would be enough to scare away any company. In fact I'm half surprised that ANACS and ICG even do it given that they have no idea of whether or not these coins are truly funded and that the private keys under the holos are even authentic, or match the public address.

2nd, the market just isn't big enough for the risk. Even if PCGS graded 1000 coins per year at $20 per coin, it's not worth the potential insurance risk of grading and guaranteeing these. So I just don't see it happening, because frankly they don't need the money or the headache.

ANACS and ICG need the business and therefore are willing to take more of a risk.

Just my 2 cents.

Very good assessment of the situation, plus Merit for you!

They grade 10,000+ chinese pandas and morgan dollars a month, they don't need the headache and risk of a few 1000 crypto coins per year.

Thanks.

Another thing is that both NGC and PCGS are publically traded companies, so they could have potential regulation issues now or in the future related to cryptos. No good for the stock price!!

I take no pleasure from saying this either, because I would love for either, or both NGC and PCGS to slab some cryptos. Hell, I'd send in all of my ANACS for crossovers straight away.

Lesbian Cow

legendary

Activity: 3066

Merit: 1757

Quote from: JUPITYR on February 13, 2018, 12:09:26 PM

I think that convincing NGC or PCGS to grade cryptos will be a real uphill battle. First off, the potential legal risk of authenticating cryptos would be enough to scare away any company. In fact I'm half surprised that ANACS and ICG even do it given that they have no idea of whether or not these coins are truly funded and that the private keys under the holos are even authentic, or match the public address.

2nd, the market just isn't big enough for the risk. Even if PCGS graded 1000 coins per year at $20 per coin, it's not worth the potential insurance risk of grading and guaranteeing these. So I just don't see it happening, because frankly they don't need the money or the headache.

ANACS and ICG need the business and therefore are willing to take more of a risk.

Just my 2 cents.

Very good assessment of the situation, plus Merit for you!

They grade 10,000+ chinese pandas and morgan dollars a month, they don't need the headache and risk of a few 1000 crypto coins per year.

JUPITYR

member

Activity: 466

Merit: 74

I think that convincing NGC or PCGS to grade cryptos will be a real uphill battle. First off, the potential legal risk of authenticating cryptos would be enough to scare away any company. In fact I'm half surprised that ANACS and ICG even do it given that they have no idea of whether or not these coins are truly funded and that the private keys under the holos are even authentic, or match the public address.

2nd, the market just isn't big enough for the risk. Even if PCGS graded 1000 coins per year at $20 per coin, it's not worth the potential insurance risk of grading and guaranteeing these. So I just don't see it happening, because frankly they don't need the money or the headache.

ANACS and ICG need the business and therefore are willing to take more of a risk.

Just my 2 cents.

Lesbian Cow

legendary

Activity: 3066

Merit: 1757

Quote from: Blazed on February 13, 2018, 11:34:56 AM

Quote from: JUPITYR on February 13, 2018, 07:22:20 AM

Quote from: Blazed on February 13, 2018, 12:32:34 AM

Quote from: JUPITYR on February 12, 2018, 10:24:13 PM

Quote from: Blazed on February 12, 2018, 06:09:04 PM

Quote from: digicoinuser on February 11, 2018, 10:41:47 PM

Quote from: owlcatz on February 11, 2018, 10:28:52 PM

Quote from: JUPITYR on February 11, 2018, 10:27:36 PM

I've always had a good experience with ICG on my regular coin submissions. Haven't tried any cryptos yet, but will be in the future. $29 is total BS for ANACS to be charging.

Does anyone have a link to the their form or whatever? Thanks!

Agreed, it would be good to add a link to their form. What does ICG charge for grading?

A few years ago I cracked some slabs from ICG and sent to ANACS and they grade them differently. ANACS was consistently 1 grade lower. The thread showed me cracking the slabs and getting new grades etc... I do recall it being in auctions for some reason...

Not uncommon among grading companies for there to be a variance. Even NGC and PCGS rarely agree, unless they are fresh from the mint moderns. ICG may routinely grade higher in the hopes of you using their service again. ICG and ANACS trade at a discount relative to NGC and PCGS anyway, so I wouldn't send any coins to them that I was hoping to get a super premium for the grade.

For cryptos I don't see it as a big deal if ANACS says something is a 67 and ICG says 68. For a rare Morgan CC that could make a huge difference in price, but for this market it's more the 3rd party trust of the encapsulated coin and intact hologram versus the condition of the coin. Especially since most of what is in this space are just brass tokens or plastic poker chips. Some silver and gold splashed in here and there, but mostly ugly looking brass. Wink

The big issue for me is that we have used the ANACS standard since 2013. I would just assume not grade coins at this point rather than using an even lowered tier grading service such as ICGS.

Well that's fair enough. To each his own. FWIW though eBay recognizes ICG as one of 4 approved 3PG companies that you can list on their site. Also, if you look at ICG's grading team on their website they have as much experience as any graders in the business and a couple of them worked for NGC and another for ANACS. One guy was even a consultant for the Secret Service in authenticating coins. So it's not like some random guys that opened up a grading service with little or no experience.

With that said, I'd love it if PCGS or NGC would start grading cryptos, but after the nonsense coming out of ANACS lately ICG is at least worth consideration.

I agree that ANACS sucks and is considered #3 grading wise after PCGS and NGC. I think it sucks to move from the 3rd best to the 4th best service though. Why even bother grading these if the name on the slab is considered crap? I only graded coins in the past for higher resale values (buy the coin sell the slab). Personally, I am done grading these coins until PCGS or NGC starts accepting them. I think we should really reach out to them and see what it takes for them to grade for us.

PCGS and NGC will not grade any modern tokens - things like Liberty Dollars (NORFEDs) - I don't see them changing this for crypto but I suppose I could be wrong...