Topic: [ANN] Win88.me | INVEST + BE THE HOUSE | HIGH RETURNS (Read 1703 times)

Ok thanks for explaining sir

Thanks @dooglas for clarifying - we were not trying to make anyone look bad!

Policies on many of the sites are unclear and we were using information from other Dice investors who had thought the same.

Thanks again.

Do you see how in the beginning the 'others' are making 1.034524 - 1.018 = 0.016524 per week,
but at the end they are making 1.16825153 - 1.163672691 = 0.00457884 per week?

That means there's a big problem with your math.

Of course as investments grow, so do individual weekly profits, given constant weekly profit percentages.

You seem to think other sites are taking 10% of the *whole* profit each week, not 10% of the *new* profit. No wonder your example makes them look bad!

No, other sites only take 10% commission on new profits.

At the end of the 1st week, the profit is 2% of 1, or 0.02. 10% of that is 0.002. that leaves an investment of 1.018

At the end of the 2nd week, the profit is 2% of 1.018, and the profit is (1.018*1.02 - 1.018), not (1.018*1.02 - 1) as you wrote.
That can be simplified to 1.018 * 0.02, and after commission is removed as 1.018 * 0.02 * 0.9.
Each week the investment will grow by a factor of 1 + 0.02*0.9, compounding.


Growth at other sites *does* compound. The formula I gave is correct for other sites, and would be correct for win88 if you used 10% fee and charged it every week, like the other sites do.

The fact that you can't understand this gives me cause for concern.

Are you sure you want to be running a site where the mathematics matters?

Investment is now only 10% during promo period.  Since returns are compounded, this is the best House Investment offering available now on any site.

Now that we lowered our investment take and eliminated the second fee, this is the new comparison table for weekly return assuming 2% per week:


Win88           Others
1.018                   1.018
1.03636           1.034524
1.0550872           1.049693032
1.074188944   1.063618203
1.093672723   1.076401511
1.113546177   1.088136587
1.133817101   1.098909387
1.154493443   1.108798817
1.175583312   1.117877314
1.197094978   1.126211374
1.219036878   1.133862042
1.241417615   1.140885354
1.264245967   1.147332755
1.287530887   1.153251469
1.311281504   1.158684849
1.335507135   1.163672691
1.360217277   1.16825153

Given that early on our returns have been more than 100% in the past week, investment returns are through the roof right now on  win88.me

Thanks @Dooglas for your quick reply.

Apologize - grabbed the wrong data which has now been corrected in the previous post.

I agree on your calculations for our compounding, but I think the (1 + 0.02*0.9)**8 for other sites is not correct.
For instance, week 2 should actually be 1 + (1.018*1.02 - 1)*0.9 = 1.034524 instead of (1 + 0.02*0.9)**2 = 1.036324
The formula you provided is for compound growth and that is what win88 would see if we were to used 10% fee.

Following this out further for 2% weekly growth:

Wk   Win88           Others
1   1.016                   1.018
2   1.03232           1.034524
3   1.0489664           1.049693032
4   1.065945728   1.063618203
5   1.083264643   1.076401511
6   1.100929935   1.088136587
7   1.118948534   1.098909387
8   1.137327505   1.108798817
9   1.156074055   1.117877314
10   1.175195536   1.126211374
11   1.194699447   1.133862042
12   1.214593436   1.140885354
13   1.234885304   1.147332755
14   1.25558301           1.153251469
15   1.276694671   1.158684849
16   1.298228564   1.163672691

** Note also that we plan to eliminate double fees on profits (i.e. that 2% will go away in the next update) **

** We will also plan for a promo period of lower commissions in the near future.  If we go down to 10% compound growth with no weekly fees, you can seen an even greater difference between win88 and others:

I think you're going to have to show your working.

As I see it, investing 1 BTC for 8 weeks on your site with 2% per week return gives a profit of 13.7%:

>>> (1.02**8 - 1) * 0.8 + 1
1.1373275048018126

Whereas any other site gives a profit of 15.3% over the same period:

>>> (1 + 0.02*0.9) ** 8
1.15340604709305916

It takes a very long time for the effect of compounding to outweigh your double commission - almost 2 years in fact:

for i in range(1,101): print "%2d %3.5f %3.5f" % (i, (1.02**i - 1) * 0.8 + 1, (1 + 0.02*0.9) ** i)

weeks you others
 1 1.01600 1.01800
 2 1.03232 1.03632
 3 1.04897 1.05498
 4 1.06595 1.07397
 5 1.08326 1.09330
 6 1.10093 1.11298
 7 1.11895 1.13301
 8 1.13733 1.15341
 9 1.15607 1.17417
10 1.17520 1.19530
[...]
94 5.34643 5.34923
95 5.44936 5.44551

If the weekly return is a more realistic 1% then it takes 187 weeks for your scheme to outperform the other sites.

Edit: I forgot to mention - all sites all compounding. It's just that most charge commission every week, and so the effect of compounding is slightly smaller.

@dooglas - thanks so much for your feedback.  

After your last message, I realize that we just need to communicate things more clearly.
Let me explain another way why investors will prefer win88.me once they understand the differentiation.

Win88.me is distinct in that we allow for compound growth and investors will actually come out way ahead if they invest for more than 1 week.
We are certainly happy to have short term investors as well, but are encouraging longer term investments for even greater investor returns.

1) Other sites charge 10% commission on profits, but they charge that commission EVERY WEEK.

2) win88.me charges 20%, but we only charge that fee on profits at the time of closing a position.
This allows for compound growth.

Suppose that the weekly return is 2% ROI and you invest 1 BTC for 16 weeks.

Win88.me Profit: 0.298228564
Other Site Profit: 0.163672691

Win88.me yields a 1.82X higher return than others for this 16 week investment.

3) We can change our fees any time to adjust to changes in returns as well.  i.e. lower returns we can adjust to lower fees at any time.

4) Since we support multiple edges and 0% fee for switching your investment to other edges, you can also "park" your investment at a higher house edge if you want to put funds out of play for a while or put them at a lower risk investment.

Thanks again @dooglas for your feedback.  Please let us know if you have any other questions or comments as they are very much appreciated.

Every other dice site that I've looked into lets you invest and divest whenever you like, without any fee (other than 10% commission on new profits). It sounds like you're the same, but with a 20% commission on profit, and a 2% fee each time they divest after making a loss.

It sounds like you haven't researched the market you're trying to enter very well...

The immediate divestment is a big differentiator - the ability for people to invest and close their positions at any time is not something we have seen with out sites.

We are also smart about dynamic maximum bets based on bankroll of different edges.  This means that investors have their profits protected as much as possible on any single roll and this dynamism means that 7 to 10 "losses" in a roll doesn't have a major negative effect on the investments.

Furthermore, allowing investment at multiple edges from 0.1% to 3.5% edges allows a bigger diversification for both players and investors.

@dooglas - we are different than other sites in that we allow divestment at any time (not just the end of the week).  Fees are only assessed at the time of divestment.

So if investors make a profit, you take 20% of it (every other site I know of takes just 10% if it),

and if they make a loss, you take 2% of their whole investment? Every week? Or every time they divest? (no other site I know of does this at all)

Good luck with that!

Investing in Win88.me Dice is Easy!

Step 1. Choose an amount to invest and a Funding Level.  



Step 2. Watch your Investment Grow!

New Investors have been seeing over 3% daily return today!
Boo-yah!

Announcing the first investment option which allows you to earn passive investments by "being the house" and doing so at multiple edges based on your risk tolerance and investment size.

https://win88.me

Investments start at 0.01 BTC

Key Features
==========
1) Move Investment between Edges for 0% Fee
2) Keep 90% of Profits
3) Dynamic Maximums preserve investment

For more information:
a) https://win88.me
b) click on "invest" or choose "menu->invest"

Win88 Links
==========
Signature Campaign - Earn 0.15BTC per month
Official Win88.me Thread
Win88 DICE (with investment option)
Win88 LOTTO (instant win lottery game)
Win88 RPSLS (Rock Paper Scissors Lizard Spock)