Any EU laws regulating the sale of funded physical bitcoin?

TheCryptoMint

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Quote from: Zeroxal on June 27, 2016, 03:02:24 PM

Thanks for all the great information you guys have provided! Do you need to pay the VAT actively to the government or will they request you to pay them?

To avoid further confusions:
The total amount of coin domination will be 10BTC, not each coin. For example either 1000 0.01 Coins or 100 0.1 BTC coins.

Quote from: BitcoinAccepted on June 27, 2016, 02:44:00 PM

Since UK voted to leave EU last week a foreign coin levy of 0.35BTC applies on all EU physical coin sales.

PM BitcoinAccepted for the payment address.

Wow, that's new and most probably true too.
Luckily I don't live in the UK Grin

You have to do a tax return in your country. You can obviously declare as much as you wish and in some countries you have tax allowances so you can trade a certain amount before you start paying tax. For such a small business I wouldn't really worry about it. From what I have worked out the earnings I will make from this will be half of what the tax free allowance is per year. That is of course unless you start generating an extremely high volume of sales. I would then seek the services of an accountant to calculate and submit your taxes. Accountants generally do all this for you and can even arrange tax payments too.

Zeroxal

hero member

Activity: 896

Merit: 508

Thanks for all the great information you guys have provided! Do you need to pay the VAT actively to the government or will they request you to pay them?

To avoid further confusions:
The total amount of coin domination will be 10BTC, not each coin. For example either 1000 0.01 Coins or 100 0.1 BTC coins.

Quote from: BitcoinAccepted on June 27, 2016, 02:44:00 PM

Since UK voted to leave EU last week a foreign coin levy of 0.35BTC applies on all EU physical coin sales.

PM BitcoinAccepted for the payment address.

Wow, that's new and most probably true too.
Luckily I don't live in the UK Grin

BitcoinAccepted

legendary

Activity: 2660

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Since UK voted to leave EU last week a foreign coin levy of 0.35BTC applies on all EU physical coin sales.

PM BitcoinAccepted for the payment address.

TookDk

legendary

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One coin to rule them all

Quote from: Zeroxal on June 26, 2016, 04:34:20 PM

Because of the casascius vs money transfer law incident, I wanted to ask if there are any laws in Europe that are similar to those in the USA. Would a sale of self created physical bitcoins with 10BTC loaded onto them in total need to be licensed?

I want to confirm what has already been mention about the denomination.
If you are planning to generate private keys and load them with 10 BTC, then will you get zero or close to zero sale.
Selling loaded coin requires enormous amount of trust.
The thing about trust is that you cannot prove that you can be trusted, trust is something that is gained over time.
The sad story of Coinographic shows why this is an important issue.
Personally I would be ok with 0.01-0.05 from an unknown/untrusted manufacture.
I would even have my concerns with a 0.1 BTC denomination coin.

TheCryptoMint

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Activity: 113

Merit: 11

Quote from: Zeroxal on June 26, 2016, 04:34:20 PM

Because of the casascius vs money transfer law incident, I wanted to ask if there are any laws in Europe that are similar to those in the USA. Would a sale of self created physical bitcoins with 10BTC loaded onto them in total need to be licensed?

You will be happy to hear that I paid a lawyer based in Amsterdam who has dealt with crypto significantly in the past and her report says its ok to go ahead with. With regards to paying tax is another issue and apparently only a real concern if you live in Germany. Although you should pay and charge VAT, this doesn't apply to the actual Bitcoin value itself.

So you are good to go really. I had a lot of help by a mint I found on here but sought my own legal advice and seams its not a major concern.

Technomage

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Affordable Physical Bitcoins - Denarium.com

Shouldn't be a problem. We (https://denarium.com) are based in the EU, Finland to be exact, and as far as we know it's fine to sell loaded coins. Bitcoin regulation is especially positive (loose) in Finland. EU still doesn't have any clear regulations on anything Bitcoin related, however it will change in the near future.

defcon23

legendary

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Merit: 1002

selling funded coins in EU is not actualy a problem , as the regulations laws are still quite "obscure"
nothing have already been stated at this point.. still in discussion , the real Problem is with the US.

i will update/edit this post with officials docs.. ( you probably have to translate them as they mostly are in French )

https://bitcoin.fr/public/divers/docs/rapport-sur-l-encadrement-des-monnaies-virtuelles.pdf

http://www.coindesk.com/french-presidential-hopeful-bitcoin-ban/ <----- yeah .. Undecided

http://www.coindesk.com/poland-explore-blockchain-tech-government-digitization-effort/

http://www.coindesk.com/swift-bitcoin-regulation-eu-long-way-away/

Spain : No problem Cheesy

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/european-parliament-proposes-a-task-force-for-virtual-currencies-citing-opportunity-and-challenges/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_bitcoin_by_country ---->

---> The European Union has passed no specific legislation relative to the status of the bitcoin as a currency.[1]:European Union

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/european-commission-plans-crackdown-on-bitcoin-new-regulations-by-june-1455725442

https://www.loc.gov/law/help/bitcoin-survey/

monkeynuts

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MONKEYNUTS

Yep all of the above, CI and Gravitate (for Microsoul)

Its not the EU laws that are the issue. Its the US laws. Most of your market will be there. Denarium and TGBEX are also both EU. They both made the decision to not ship into the US (much like BTCC recently)

I echo that 10BTC is too bigger denom as a first strike. Talk to TGBEX, they do a range of coins from low to high denoms. They would probably be able to give you a steer on the relative proportions of sales by denom

10 BTC would require full disclosure of yourself as a starter, and then still not have any legs

I would limit yourself to 1 BTC (and probably much less than that). First strikes are generally much lower while trust is gained

miffman

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PGP ID: 78B7B84D

I think CryptoImperator is also in the EU iirc. Could be worth messaging them.

Fortify

legendary

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I'm not sure about the laws around it, but there is at least one coin producer in Europe that managed to release some - the user "gravitate" is probably able to help you most. I'd say of all the methods to launder money, low denomination physical bitcoins are the least of the authorities problems. 10 BTC might be pushing it though and I doubt few people here would invest that much (especially in a new coin maker)

chronicsky

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Just looking for peace

Quote from: Zeroxal on June 26, 2016, 04:34:20 PM

Because of the casascius vs money transfer law incident, I wanted to ask if there are any laws in Europe that are similar to those in the USA. Would a sale of self created physical bitcoins with 10BTC loaded onto them in total need to be licensed?

you should consult it with a accountant or a lawyer
But isn't that simply importing of money/digital asset and is probably liable to such laws...

It's better to fund them when they reach the buyer unless you are making coins like BTCC - it's safer too incase the coin gets lost in transit

Zeroxal

hero member

Activity: 896

Merit: 508

Because of the casascius vs money transfer law incident, I wanted to ask if there are any laws in Europe that are similar to those in the USA. Would a sale of self created physical bitcoins with 10BTC loaded onto them in total need to be licensed?

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