Topic: Any problems with *CHIPMIXER* coins? (Read 805 times)

Yes, any mixer could be the target, the authorities are most likely watching them all, and they are potentially at risk of getting seized, but that does not mean they are going to be seized. There was 4 years between bestmixer getting seized and chipmixer getting seized.

I agree that the bigger a mixer gets the more attention it would get.

A lot of exchanges (KuCoin, Robinhood, Bittrex, etc.) use ChainAlysis's KYT[1] already (and probably reactor too[2]).

[1] https://www.chainalysis.com/chainalysis-kyt/
[2] https://www.chainalysis.com/chainalysis-reactor/

But it also means that any mixer could be the next target. It's not too strange if a mixer is involved in money laundering, the larger the mixer, the harder it is to judge. Who knows when they started investigating 

Personally, I think they are just doing it to make sure they are doing the right thing legally, suspicious transactions will be sent out, but it certainly won't be investigated too deeply, they don't really do it because they want, they do it because the government wants 

No, I do not think they would meet the same fate. The recent series of events shows that the government has been monitoring chipmixer for a while now, maybe since its inception and only now found a reason to fully come in for it, making it only the 2nd big mixer to be seized that I am aware of.

Other mixers are surely under the radar of the authorities, but are not at this of meeting the same fate. They are not illegal and can only be indicted when there is strong proof of illegal flow of money through them.

Bitmover was trying to say that the exchanges would only scan the surface of the transaction history, maybe through an automated system and would not scrutinize all the details of previous transactions nor go too far back.

There are so many reasons for a low feerate transaction besides me sending to myself.

Just a bit curious about this, as I haven't seen it in the news lately, I was told that Chipmixer is banned for money laundering, so, what about other mixers? After Chipmixer, a series of other mixers took the throne to replace it, do you think we will meet the same thing in the future? It's like I'm talking about something illegal, maybe 

I was about to say the same thing. Not only is the low sat/vbyte a way to identify that it is the same wallet owner transferring between their addresses, the coins still link to chipmixer coins that are probably all linked to chipmixer at this stage.

The best solution is to use a current mixing service and/or to use instant, kyc free utilities to move into more private blockchains and then to the chain of choice. Sending transactions to your own address is a band-aid solution, if it could even be considered a solution.

But if, exchanges system made an alert, let's say false alert and then they check to be sure and discovered that you did 5 transaction the way you described, won't it be much more problematic case? It looks very suspicious, at least for me, to send funds that way and I think that won't be hard to detect for exchange algorithms.

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I think, and logically this should be the deal, if you haven't done anything illegal, you should be safe. But, in order to get rid of any possible unwanted problem, to my mind, it's good to send funds from that address to your another address (if you have) which is active and clean, then from here to your friend's address and then from your friend's address to another friend's address who has Binance.
If you don't have that many friends active in bitcoin world, then I think it sounds good to exchange bitcoin in altcoins via some non-kyc exchanges which you can search on BestChange and then get those altcoins on your exchange account.
Another possible way to solve this problem is to do this: If you have friend in less crypto-regulated country and services in that country don't block their customers so easily or on another hand, they don't care about source of crypto, then you could probably use that help of a friend.

ATMs were already mentioned, p2p exchanges were mentioned. I'm not too knowledgeable in this task, so take my advice with a grain of salt in this case.

Exchanges will only know when the related input is connected to any of the known mixer addresses but that's very much unlikely as Mixer won't do that mistake knowingly. Binance had once frozen a transaction from ChipMixer (or any other) though later they released the transaction. If they want to know if someone is using a mixer, I guess they can through the help of on-chain analysts & I guess exchanges use such services. Otherwise, how on-chain analysts are making money  LOL.

Thank you again, I watched the video, you are correct from this point I don't disagree with you on this, exchanges will not bother and pay more money in order to scan every bitcoin transaction they receive, that will cost a lot of time and money.

For small amounts of Bitcoin, this is definitely not a problem. The problem will be with large amounts, which are naturally attractive. My question is, can it really be completely hidden?

The question is another way, if the exchange suspects any user who has deposited a large amount of Bitcoin and does a deep analysis of the deposit address, wouldn't it be able to tell that the Bitcoin came out of the mixer earlier? Even if CoinJoin was used in the last wallet? this is the question.

It is true that this costs a lot of fees but it is still possible if the exchange wants to do it, right?

Well that's not a good sign! Are we allowed to know the reason(s) why? I mean I can imagine why this was asked, but am more curious as to why (who?) it was recommended by.

If it's asked that staff don't engage in advertising mixing services, then it begs the question as to why it's generally not recommended to users of the forum in general...

Glad to see you found another signature campaign (not mixing or gambling) to be part of at least.

You can watch the video from Antonopoulos. Exchanges cannot make deep bitcoin analysis of every satoshi it receives, otherwise they simple won`t receive from anyone. Because a lot of coins have one time been in a mixer or casino at least once. There must be a limit to how long they will make a blockchain analysis.

Mixers are certainly not a 'trap'   and they are not a great risk for people who use it.

Well, thank you for alerting me to read before posting, but I did. I read the solution that you provided in the first comments, but I did not like it, just as other members did not like it. This is a quote, for example:
I also think so, I think even with the solution you provided it is still possible by deep analysis of the blockchain to know that this bitcoin came out of the mixer.

That's quite unusual from theymos, I can't believe so LOL.
Respect your beliefs.

Nevertheless, what you are currently promoting (me too), doesn't it fall in the same category as a mixing service? In my opinion, it does. The only difference is they are mentioning themselves as an exchange (No KYC). How theymos is approving this?

My bad, I have gone too far off-topic in this thread I guess.

Well, there are many solutions. Some good solutions are in the first page of the topic.

But you won't find them if you don't read the topic before posting 

Eli5: just make some transactions and /or split coins before sending to an exchange.

It is really unfortunate that mixers have turned into a trap, instead of mixers completely concealing identity, any bitcoin that comes from the mixer has become a source of great concern that puts its owner at risk!!!

I don't know how but there should be a final solution to this problem, if the centralized exchanges are able to detect the bitcoin coming from the mixer then what is the point of the mixer?

Depositing ChipMixer mixed coins can potentially raise red flags with regulators or tax authorities, especially since ChipMixer.com has been seized. Generally, mixing coins can be seen as an attempt to obfuscate the origin of the coins, which may lead to suspicions of money laundering or other illicit activities.

I think it's important for your friend to consider the potential risks and consequences before selling these mixed coins. Depending on the jurisdiction, there may be legal requirements for reporting cryptocurrency transactions and paying taxes on any gains.

Probably, it would be a good idea for your friend to consult with a lawyer or tax professional who has experience with cryptocurrency transactions. They can provide guidance on how to stay compliant with relevant laws and regulations, and may be able to help mitigate any potential risks.

I was told by all of you the reason but I wanted to keep it untold to the public space in case some of you feel uncomfortable. But now I can freely talk :-D

We (staff) were asked to stop advertising mixing services.

As for gambling services, then that's simply because of my religious beliefs.

During the past week, 4 staff members were deleted from two different mixer campaigns at the same time, and I don't think they were removed because of the quality of their posts as two of the members were advertising for one of the campaigns for more than a month.

It's assumptions and I may be obsessed with what happened, maybe I should stay away from thinking about this case.

- Yamane

Who? I only found OmegaStarScream, and he's now avoiding mixers and gambling altogether. That doesn't leave much else to advertise.

I started to see some members of the forum avoiding joining mixer campaigns and suddenly, in the same week, all staffs who were wearing mixers signatures stopped at same week and did not try to join any other mixing predictions campaign, so did I miss something?


@mocacinno
One here
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1SLhz6zEmBSrlZ0wNJDMvKI5vOgBZzVjG8b9FlXpn-oQ/edit#gid=598916694
Is it a coincidence?
- Yamane

It looks like all you're going to get in this tread from this point on is glib one line posts from Signature Spammers echo-chambering what has been said already without actually contributing anything to the discussion.

If there's an ongoing investigation, your friend has something to worry about, but it's better to find the best option using a decentralized exchange and transferring from one wallet to another are so far the best options, your friend is still lucky, right now his coins are in cold storage compared to the others who just traded their coins on centralized exchange making them a possible suspect if there's investigation rolling so you can find the best solution like what you're doing right now.
Your friend's issue s also the dilemma of others who traded on CM, or who still have coins coming from Chipmixer.

Exchanges with Terms of service for KYC/AML will be risky to send his mixed coins to.

Fortunately, there are no KYC exchanges that don't mind about KYC and AML at least before they change their policies and Terms of service. Your friends can do his own research and use them as destination for his coins.

https://kycnot.me/

Not my advice for your friend safety and security for his coins.

Your friend should expect the worst, so it's better not to be complacent. It's better to be safe than sorry. After all, foolishly labeling some coins as "tainted" is becoming a thing now with centralized platforms. So although I haven't heard of funds locked in relation to the seized Chipmixer, it could very well happen anytime. The immediate precedent is Tornado Cash, and there were funds frozen. So I guess avoiding centralized exchanges is a must. Erasing those coins' traces with Chipmixer is also called for.

It's my number one transaction fee estimation site mate. Most especially right before I make a transaction.

I can challenge any member here to let me know if they had any of their 1 sat/vbyte transaction get confirmed in the last 2-3 weeks.

It has never been any secret that any given CM coins were associated with CM. This has always been the case thanks to blockchain analysis. I don't see any reason why CM being seized would change anything about any previously received coin from CM.

I see a lot of people have suggested solutions like:

 - Use P2P/DEXs or that do not require KYC.
 - Create multiple transactions before you send them.

All of them are solutions that may succeed in making you withdraw your money, but if a deep analysis is done in the future, you may fall into a problem because the transaction history is preserved and the platform has your central data.
and using P2P mean you move that problem to another user.

Your friend doesn't necessarily need to use regulated entities like centralized exchanges to sell their bitcoin. They can contact people in the local area and ask them if they would like to participate in peer-to-peer exchanges involving real goods and decentralized digital currency. Moreover, it may well be that by the time your friend decides to get rid of some part of bitcoin holdings, bitcoin will have already achieved the status of globally-accepted currency, which means all people around will be aware of bitcoin and willing to accept it in exchanges without problems. They won't be asking your friend about the source of funds because globally adopted currencies are by default interchangeable and fungible, which means coins from seized ChipMixer will be no different from coins sold by the US government.

You could always check the latest block traffic and suggested TX fees here: https://mempool.space/

Use Bisq to swap the bitcoins for another altcoin, and then buy those bitcoins back using a different DEX like tradeogre.

No substitute to using a real mixer by any means, but exchanges are currently too dumb to identify such coins as "anonymizes coins".

Thanks for the video link. Have bookmarked, will check it out tonight.
I already have told that I have deposited little amount of BTC almost directly from mixer in centralized exchange. Got no problem. Exchanges want to have their limit because they are happy with more coins on their exchange. However, on chain analysts don't have that limit.

So far there is none because its too early to tell, their concern now is catching the owner of Chipmixer he'll have to testify or the authorities makes him spill out about the data that they've seized, while you have the time you can transfer it to wallets that you own or trade it from one exchange to another so if ever the coins will be disassociated to the mixer, and as long as you are not a hacker or a scammer and for a legal reason you want your coins to be private there's nothing to worry about.
The authorities will probably go for big-time scammers and hackers not for small fish because this is part of the main reason why they seize Chipmixer.

This will not work if the exchange that he will deposit to has one of those stupid analyzers about tainted coins
Some of them work their score by going up the source multiple times till they encounter something fishy, an already blacklisted address or a known cold wallet to whitelist the source, if you just move the entire balance the last coins will get the same score add5=add1, so the best way to get rid of it would be to mix somewhere the source of funds with another batch of coins if add4 contains 50% add3 and %50 coinbase coins the risk score will drop in half, just a raw explanation as I don't know all the variables.

But that beings said there are a lot of users here who have deposited mixed coins, including me by mistake to exchanges,  of course, it might also be a case of volume, the frequency of deposits, being already KYC for a long time so fewer filters maybe, but still large exchanges have never said a thing.
Scammy instant exchanges that can't wait for a second to fleece a user by inventing all kinds of stories, that's a different thing and I would advise anyone to avoid them completely.

 

I don't remember in the recent weeks when 1 sat/vbyte transactions could have a chance of getting confirmed in the next few blocks. Maybe he could try 3-5 sats/vbyte.

Alternatively, OP's *friend* could just use no KYC p2p exchanges like bisq, hodlhodl. He is just too worried for nothing.

I believe that an exchange will not make a complex on-chain analysis/investigation on every user. They will just look a few transactions back (at most) looking for "tainted" addresses.

if you look coins whole history you will see that a lot of coins have been in a mixer or casino at some time, so they must put some kind of limit to their search. Like the past 2-3 transactions.

There is a good video by Andreas Antonopoulos about it:

Bitcoin Q&A: Blacklists, Taint, and Wallet Fingerprinting
https://youtu.be/BILcJ3WtdLQ?t=195

He explain exactly that, there is a limit in transactions (hops) which the exchange is going to look back.

Would that really change the fact that he didn't use a mixer? No, because all of his txs will be identifiable easily by on-chain analysts I think as there are a lot of different criteria, and clues they use. Well, I'm saying this in general, not necessarily applied to OP.

@OP, I have deposited ChipMixer chips in a centralized exchange and I got no problem so far. That was to break the link of my personal saving wallet/cold wallet. For no other purposes I used mixer though 

Yeah or even simpler, he could just exchange his BTCs to XMR and after that, swap from XMR to BTC again. Monero will protect his identity.
It could be done via P2P, like on Bisq or any other platform providing P2P services.

Your friend could also imagine to cash out his BTC from an ATM, and buy again BTC with this cash from an other ATM.
In this second scenario the fees would be more important.


Most of the regulated CEX (even each one I guess) would mark your account in a SAR form once they have access of the Chipmixer's addresses. Most of them probably already own a list, we could imagine that Chainanalysis for example is proactively working on it, if it is not already done of course.
Depending on your past activity on the CEX, the amounts and the frenquency of your exchanges, you could be blocked, asked for Source of funds documents, and for more explanations. In some cases funds could be seized, it already happened in the past

He can simple make a few hops, about 5 transactions is enough

Let's suppose this is his situation:

ChipAddresz > Address1

He just need to make soemthing like this, inside his own wallet.

ChipAdd > Add1 > Add2 > add3 > add4 > add5 > exchange

as he is transfering to himself, he can use 1 sat/vbyte in those transactions. he can also split the values.

this is make those coins look to be far from the mixer and the exchange wont notice them (most likely)

if he is distraught, he can re-mix coins through one of the currently active services. or to exchange them through one of the exchanges that do not require mandatory KYC. Just only the most straightforward examples.
some services tried to keep the coins earlier (before this closing of ChipMixer) because they came from the mixer. All are under the umbrella of the AML fight. For example, read this thread and watch account fixedfloat statements as representative of one exchanger.

So far there are no such report caught my attention but I think it's to early to know. I really hope in the next coming months we don't see many topics where it's saying exchange x seized my bitcoin or service x seized the bitcoin deposit because they found I mixed my coin with Chipmixer.

I don't think there are not many people who care about their privacy but never used Chipmixer. It's a big blow for all of us.

YAh, another topic about mixers.
*My friend* has some coins that were mixed during the past years, moved them into cold storage, and he wants to sell them in the future.
Are there any complaints about closing KYCed accounts, tax reports or problems that resulted from depositing ChipMixer mixed coins? Specifically after ChipMixer.com has been seized.

- Yamane