Topic: Any way to take the bitcoins out of the U.S. ? Tax Free? (Read 2119 times)

I think the best way - a paper wallet

PS I would like to know what decision you have made as a result 

use a paper wallet or just send them to me and i'll send it back. Maybe 

A good lawyer would say lie about it. You can send your wallet.dat to a family member that lives in another country but not the password therefore you're safe. You have the bitcoins but you can say they are in another country. You could say you don't even have the bitcoins.

heh, heh

I think maybe you are expecting far to much from the typical Bitcoin noob.

They are also in every country that has internet.
Bitcoins are in the block chain.

So are they crossing borders?
Are the words typed on this screen crossing borders?

It probably matters a bit more whether the person is free to travel than whether the bitcoins are free to travel.

Puerto Rico will never sell out to DC.  I think I'd better start learning Spanish.  My employer has stores in PR and I could totally relocate there half the year.  Hmmmm.

Well there is a difference between not paying your taxes and not owing them.  If you go to a country which has no extradition to the US then you may be ok without paying your taxes however that doesn't make the tax liability disappear you just become a tax evader.   The rest of your life is a long time.   What if the extradition status of your new host country changes?  What if you want to return to the US to visit a dying relative?  Your liability doesn't go away, they can (and will) arrest you if they get the chance.  On the other hand if you truly renounce your citizenship which yes it does require paying an "expatriation tax" as insane as that may seem will forever break any future tax liability.  It is the difference between not paying what you "owe" and not owing anything to pay.   Most people looking to wash their hands of the US are looking to truly wash their hands of the US.


Until the expatriation tax is paid a person remains a US citizen (the renouncing is "on hold").  Since the tax is only imposed on those with a net worth of $2M or $139K in annual income taxes it doesn't apply to 99% of Americans, then again most Americans likely lack the resources to renounce their citizenship anyways.  Still it can result in some serious tax bills.  Say your net worth is $1B and under a liquidate everything today scenario it results in $800M in gains and to make it simple, half of it is long term gains at 20% and the other half short term at 49.7% the taxes due (in cash) for your final US tax year would be $278,800,000.  I would assume that since this is Uncle Sam's last bite from the apple, the IRS would go over your finances with a fine tooth comb before signing off on the return.

As for Puerto Rico, they are hardly independent of the US.  You may avoid federal taxes (if you live there 183 or more days a year) that could change tomorrow.  Puerto Rico is wholly dependent on washington for federal aid.  The PR govt would go bankrupt overnight if Washington shutoff the cash pipe.   If tomorrow washington demanded PR close the federal tax loophole or they wouldn't get their next $22B check they would in a heartbeat and your tax avoidance system would go up in smoke.    http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2013/03/12/puerto-rico-tax-laws/

yeah, I never understood this, why not just leave and never come back?  Or keep your citizenship and move to Puerto Rico.  No federal taxes.

LOL
Is this for real?

Sadly the process for renouncing your citizenship in the US involves paying an exit tax.

The IRS will not bother you unless you convert your coins to fiat. They are not going to monitor all the Bitcoin transactions. If you want to be 100% sure, then use Western Union or personal one-to-one barter when you want to sell your coins for fiat.

It's not like the IRS can audit your btc holdings.  This is dumb.  I had btc stolen, I have no repercussions towards that either.  Wild wild west yal!

If you bought your bitcoins when they were cheaper then now then your gain is not taxable as it is an unrealized profit:
http://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/06/realizedprofitsvsunrealizedprofits.asp
Only when you sell them you need to tax the difference because it will be a realized profit.
This is valid for any asset.
You can select when and where will happen this event and create the proper environment to optimize your tax.

You can take a paper wallet wherever you want tax free.

Send them to me, and ill hold them until you need them again!

ya keep it in your wallet.......

bitcoins arent in any country

i guess you are asking how can i AVOID U.S. taxes?

Just move out of the US, dont claim BTC and hope you are small enough to not get caught.

Is this the bitcoin talk forum or the I want to pay my taxes forum?  Is this guy for real?  I've daydreamed about turning 100% of my net worth into btc and just disappearing.  Never ever did paying the IRS or wondering how I'm going to get my btc out of the country cross my mind.  

The NSA couldn't care less if you don't pay your taxes.
That is the job of another government department.


However you do have a strong point

If I were part of the NSA, I would make several accounts on this forum so that later I can start innocent threads with similar titles so that I track those who reply with interesting concepts.

Bitcoin has nothing to do with USA. It is USD that u should worry about !!!

Where are bitcoins stored in the first place?  Are they spread out in the mist of blockchain ledgers across the globe, or are they localized to the positions where the private keys reside?  If they are stored in the global blockchain, then are you legally required to disclose these "foreign account balances"?  If they are stored in the local private key, then are you required to disclose your brain wallet when you cross an international border?  Maybe it's a bit of both.

Bitcoin motivates one to rethink what money actually is.  Ensuring 100% compliance with legacy financial and tax rules would require disambiguation of what a bitcoin is to the point of logical contradiction, I believe.  I expect if bitcoin adoption continues to grow, laws and regulations will bend to bitcoin rather than vice versa.  

You can take Bitcoins anywhere you want.
In fact you don't even need your wallet.
All you need is the private key.

As to the second part of your question:
Are you looking for a way to take the coins out of the country?
or
Exchange them to fiat "tax free"?

If it's the first then read my first comment,
if it's the latter, depending on how many coins we are talking about here, unless you deposit the fiat currency in a bank, then there is no way for the gov to know you have ANY cash on you (unless you go around telling people).
EDIT: You will need to go through Dark Markets to exchange coins to cash.

That being said, I think it is a bad idea trying to fool the government.
I do not agree with taxation (on my hard earned money) but then again I do not agree with breaking the law.

Are you simply trying to send them to another country, or are you selling BTC for a cash profit?
There are 100% legal strategies to pay less taxes.
What are you trying to do?

What form do I use to report my bitcoin holdings to the IRS?           /sarc

Jesus, you can't figure that out on your own???

Is it just me or is this a weird question?  Like, just send it to another address that is accessible from outside the US, right?

Option 1: Spend some $100,000 and get a Dominican citizenship. Renounce your American citizenship. There is ZERO income tax in Dominica and you don't have to pay any.

Option 1: Spend some $400,000 and get a St Kitts - Nevis citizenship. Renounce your American citizenship. There is ZERO income tax in St Kitts - Nevis and you don't have to pay any.

No, ever if you change citizenship, you have to pay taxes to U.S.
Your basically U.S. tax slave forever 

Send it to me and i'll send it back.
Or use a paper wallet

Bitcoin observes no boundaries. 

Any way to take the bitcoins out of the U.S. ? Tax Free?