Anybody thinks insiders did not Short before the Goldman Sachs news?

exstasie

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Quote from: BitcoinNewbie15 on September 11, 2018, 10:45:38 AM

Quote from: cellard on September 09, 2018, 10:52:23 PM

I have heard a bunch of different news now being pointed to the latest dump, including:
-Satoshi coins moved

I have not heard of this?? Is this true? I doubt this is true, the market would have reacted way more violently if Satoshi coins moved. Where did the news for this come from?

No, there was some speculation about that when some old coins were moved. As I recall, it turned out they were connected to the Silk Road and Mt. Gox. The consensus now is that these were just Gox coins moving. Presumably, it's the bankruptcy trustee or whoever is handling the coins during the civil rehabilitation process.

Quote from: jfelix on September 10, 2018, 12:33:42 PM

I think the problem is that OTC market has more market share than traditional exchanges and they can short bitcoin without having to own it.
I have seen somewhere a report saying that OTC market share is 3 times bigger than traditional exchanges like binance.

Any source for that? I'd love to see some data on the OTC market. As far as I can tell, it's a black hole regarding market data.

BitcoinNewbie15

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Bitcoin isn't a bubble. It's the pin!

Quote from: cellard on September 09, 2018, 10:52:23 PM

I have heard a bunch of different news now being pointed to the latest dump, including:
-Satoshi coins moved

I have not heard of this?? Is this true? I doubt this is true, the market would have reacted way more violently if Satoshi coins moved. Where did the news for this come from?

If his coins really moved than this is a huge deal, but I just checked the first few blocks and it looks like they are still there. Is there definitive proof that coins that were moved came from a satoshi address? I thought the $1 billion worth of coins that moved came from a silk road address?

jfelix

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Cash settled futures markets;

https://www.cmegroup.com/trading/equity-index/us-index/bitcoin.html
http://cfe.cboe.com/cfe-products/xbt-cboe-bitcoin-futures

You can clearly see how the cash settled futures markets in no shape or form have much importance to them (yet).

Quote from: jfelix on September 10, 2018, 12:33:42 PM

I have seen somewhere a report saying that futures market share is 3 times bigger than traditional exchanges like binance.

Check out the aforementioned links and you'll see for yourself.

Quick comparison in volume today (in case people are too lazy to look it up themselves);

CBOE 24 hour volume = $12.8 million.
CME 24 hour volume = $58.3 million.
Binance 24 hour volume = $213 million.

In other words, Binance's volume is three times bigger than both CBOE and CME combined.
[/quote]

I mistakenly wrote Futures i meant to write OTC Volume?

eaglewhite80

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Who knows? However, it is normal for people to try to connect every market movement with certain news. The market could have had that quick dump for different reasons.

We were approaching a resistance formed by the trend line and we got a reversal from there. It could be coincidence, it could be for any reason, but one thing I know for sure is that this market is still very much bearish and the news are sometimes just an additional catalyst to make the dump faster at times.

I will keep repeating what is more important and that is to buy the dips. Nothing as good as taking advantage of a pretty huge discount if you at least believe in what the future holds. So, whether it is goldman Sach's news or insider short, I really care less.

1Referee

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Quote from: jfelix on September 10, 2018, 12:33:42 PM

I think the problem is that Futures market has more market share than traditional exchanges and they can short bitcoin without having to own it.

The spot markets are still the dominant force, by far.

https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitcoin/#markets (ignore everything with ** to it)

Cash settled futures markets;

https://www.cmegroup.com/trading/equity-index/us-index/bitcoin.html
http://cfe.cboe.com/cfe-products/xbt-cboe-bitcoin-futures

You can clearly see how the cash settled futures markets in no shape or form have much importance to them (yet).

Quote from: jfelix on September 10, 2018, 12:33:42 PM

I have seen somewhere a report saying that futures market share is 3 times bigger than traditional exchanges like binance.

Check out the aforementioned links and you'll see for yourself.

Quick comparison in volume today (in case people are too lazy to look it up themselves);

CBOE 24 hour volume = $12.8 million.
CME 24 hour volume = $58.3 million.
Binance 24 hour volume = $213 million.

In other words, Binance's volume is three times bigger than both CBOE and CME combined.

arpon11

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Quote from: jfelix on September 09, 2018, 03:23:38 AM

We have seen on the news: Goldman Sachs will suspend plans for crypto Desk
And-BTC Dumps 1K

Then Goldman Sachs CEO says: Not suspending plans for Crypto Desk
Then the reason is TA damaged

Now Bitcoin has difficulties to come back up

$1000 dump was achieved in a short time.

Anybody thinks insiders did not Short before the Goldman Sachs news?

This is very important aspect that as a trader we most think about how the whales cryptocurrencies the fud in other to makes us dump our holding and lose significant amounts of investment. Bitcoin to me did not depend on an individual to succeed and we should be aware about this manipulators that are using bad news to affect our investments decision.

jfelix

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I think the problem is that OTC market has more market share than traditional exchanges and they can short bitcoin without having to own it.
I have seen somewhere a report saying that OTC market share is 3 times bigger than traditional exchanges like binance.

Herbert2020

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there has always been manipulation in this market not just this news but every time there is a news like this (positive or negative) there will be some manipulators taking advantage of the situation, possibly with insider information but not necessary every time and then they push the market temporarily in the direction they want so that they can earn a big profit in a short time from that temporary change.

Quote from: coinplus on September 09, 2018, 12:38:07 PM

I do not think the amount of insiders is enough to actually make a difference in bitcoin prices.

it is not just them, you have to see how the market reacts to what they do afterwards. for instance if there is a dump but price doesn't come down then that insider is F**ed. but in this particular case they caused the panic then also dumped and the market reacted as they wanted and price came down.

cellard

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I have heard a bunch of different news now being pointed to the latest dump, including:

-Pirate Robert's coins moved
-MtGox coins moved
-Satoshi coins moved
-Goldman Sachs has decided to not do whatever it was doing with "crypto"

Probably some other bunch im missing.

The point is, different people point to different news and react to them differently. At the end of the day, all of that is useless if you didn't had the insider info.

From the research i've done, it's just MtGox relate coins moving again, nothing new.

Weak hands will keep looking at whatever news out there to justify their weak hands. Just keep buying the big dips and long term you shall win.

BitHodler

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The mainstream media is the first to report every single bit of trash, but in case it turns out to be fake news (as Goldman Sachs CFO called it), they suddenly think it's no longer important to make people aware of it.

Just goes to show how they are only out to trash talk Bitcoin in an attempt to have average joes stay away. I'm glad that people started to massively down vote and dislike all their content recently, and rightfully so.

Someone on whatsapp linked me to one of these articles to find out what I think about it. I countered his question to know what he thinks about it, and he considered it to be very bad news for Bitcoin.

It took me a while to tell him how the mainstream media works, and I'm happy to have helped that person to calm down. It's our job to help out rookies where we can to have them be the next generation of firm hodlers.

If you have to repeat yourself, just keep doing it. Helping at least one person is way better than helping no one, even if you think it's a waste of time. Just go through with it.

coinplus

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I do not think the amount of insiders is enough to actually make a difference in bitcoin prices.

I agree that there could be some insiders who waited until the goldman sach news before shorting but they definitely were not big enough to make a dent at a 12 billion dollar volume business. Bitcoin has a daily 12 billion dollar transaction and no insder has billions to change the course of the action, specially not just an insider from one firm.

However, whales are big enough to change I do not challenge that yet these are very small number not huge. You may be right but that wouldn't change the move bitcoin was making.

1Referee

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Sheeples -> price drop -> latest news -> cause.

Traders -> short based on lower high cycle -> price drop -> count profits.

It's not really surprising to see the price do the same thing over and over again during a longer term downtrend. Sheeples go against it while traders just utilize the flow of the market. Based on the longer term downtrend, the next lower high will be somewhere between $6800-$7000 and we'll get to face it this month for sure, and that range is exactly where my next short will be opened.

Knowing up front that the ETF will either be rejected for sure or once again postponed, there is nothing else to spark any potential bullish sentiment this year. Accumulation is what people should focus on. Dollar cost average on the way down.

figmentofmyass

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Quote from: jfelix on September 09, 2018, 03:23:38 AM

We have seen on the news: Goldman Sachs will suspend plans for crypto Desk
And-BTC Dumps 1K

Then Goldman Sachs CEO says: Not suspending plans for Crypto Desk
Then the reason is TA damaged

Now Bitcoin has difficulties to come back up

that just goes to show you---the market didn't dump because of goldman sachs. if it did, price would have recovered on the "fake news" announcement. instead, it's still $1000+ down from the last high. that tells me the market was ready to dump regardless of any news.

Quote from: Tytanowy Janusz on September 09, 2018, 04:58:13 AM

The real rison for market dump is whale who sold his coin, stoplosses that he triggered and overlaveraged long positions that he closed. News is post factum desperate search for reason for that dump.

that's basically my position. this was a natural reaction to lots of supply entering the market. people weren't selling because of goldman sachs. that's just a silly rationalization.

Tytanowy Janusz

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I think that whale dump his coins at the top of downtrend chanel and crypto society spend loots of time to find out why price doppped and found this fake news and blame it to be reason for that. The real rison for market dump is whale who sold his coin, stoplosses that he triggered and overlaveraged long positions that he closed. News is post factum desperate search for reason for that dump. If this fake news wont appear crypto society will find another and blame this drop on it. We have dozens of good and bad news each day. There is alwais news that we can blame market pump/dump on it.

fimtuao

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Most likely, I believe that every market change has a close relationship with some whales/sharks. I think they can go short before releasing the news!

jfelix

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We have seen on the news: Goldman Sachs will suspend plans for crypto Desk
And-BTC Dumps 1K

Then Goldman Sachs CEO says: Not suspending plans for Crypto Desk
Then the reason is TA damaged

Now Bitcoin has difficulties to come back up

$1000 dump was achieved in a short time.

Anybody thinks insiders did not Short before the Goldman Sachs news?

Topic: Anybody thinks insiders did not Short before the Goldman Sachs news? (Read 240 times)