Topic: Apparently PayPal can no longer be used to buy/sell Bitcoin mining hardware (Read 36944 times)
August 11, 2014, 04:08:49 PM
This sucks but I did wonder how long it would be before PayPal would put some kind of stoppage on e-currency being used. I would say it's a shame but really PayPal will end up suffering in the end doing things like this.
August 11, 2014, 01:22:14 PM
There are many (Online Payment) Alternatives to PayPal.
are any of them friendly to Bitcoin and to buy/sell Bitcoin mining hardware ?
here is some of them ...
The Top 12 Online Payment Alternatives to PayPal
http://www.searchenginejournal.com/top-12-alternatives-paypal/
are any of them friendly to Bitcoin and to buy/sell Bitcoin mining hardware ?
here is some of them ...
The Top 12 Online Payment Alternatives to PayPal
http://www.searchenginejournal.com/top-12-alternatives-paypal/
June 03, 2013, 12:13:51 PM
paypal has always been a pain the ass for selling or buying anything, they just flag accounts randomly or whenever they feel they aren't making enough money off the fees if you ask me 
agree....just don't use paypal. they are not worthy of the profit they are taking from you.
May 30, 2013, 06:51:28 PM
Not trying to bring back a dead topic but...
I ended up successfully selling the rest of my BFLs using a family member's PayPal account. Everything went fine, but I got a voicemail from PayPal the other day (regarding the other account) saying that they needed to talk to me ASAP. I called them back today and the guy I spoke with basically just wanted more info on why I suddenly had a huge spike in volume (the PP account was hardly used for anything), and what I was selling. I told him that I was selling FPGA devices which "people mainly use for Bitcoin mining". He asked a couple more basic questions and then said that he had called the biggest buyer of my items to make sure everything was okay (the buyer was happy) and also reviewed my eBay auctions and didn't find any problems, but that he had just wanted to talk to me to see what was up. I then asked if there was an official policy on selling Bitcoin mining hardware, and he said the official policy was that "there is no official policy", but that they see a lot of problems with people selling pre-orders and want to avoid disputes so they don't like pre-order transactions. He said that I shouldn't have any problem selling in-hand hardware though. Then he said that he wished other sellers were as contentious as I was since I was, since I was very clear in the wording on my auctions about exactly what the buyer would be receiving. He said that there would have been an issue if I was making claims about how many bitcoins you could mine per month, or how fast you would make ROI on the device.
So this leaves me thinking the only reason my account was locked was because of the buyer who paid me and selected "gift" instead of "goods". (his doing completely; I had sent an invoice but he sent a new tx with "gift" instead of paying the invoice)
TLDR: Selling in-hand mining hardware on PayPal is apparently fine. Just make sure you properly classify your transactions and make sure you let buyers know the facts and only the facts about what you're selling. (no ROI claims, etc.)
I ended up successfully selling the rest of my BFLs using a family member's PayPal account. Everything went fine, but I got a voicemail from PayPal the other day (regarding the other account) saying that they needed to talk to me ASAP. I called them back today and the guy I spoke with basically just wanted more info on why I suddenly had a huge spike in volume (the PP account was hardly used for anything), and what I was selling. I told him that I was selling FPGA devices which "people mainly use for Bitcoin mining". He asked a couple more basic questions and then said that he had called the biggest buyer of my items to make sure everything was okay (the buyer was happy) and also reviewed my eBay auctions and didn't find any problems, but that he had just wanted to talk to me to see what was up. I then asked if there was an official policy on selling Bitcoin mining hardware, and he said the official policy was that "there is no official policy", but that they see a lot of problems with people selling pre-orders and want to avoid disputes so they don't like pre-order transactions. He said that I shouldn't have any problem selling in-hand hardware though. Then he said that he wished other sellers were as contentious as I was since I was, since I was very clear in the wording on my auctions about exactly what the buyer would be receiving. He said that there would have been an issue if I was making claims about how many bitcoins you could mine per month, or how fast you would make ROI on the device.
So this leaves me thinking the only reason my account was locked was because of the buyer who paid me and selected "gift" instead of "goods". (his doing completely; I had sent an invoice but he sent a new tx with "gift" instead of paying the invoice)
TLDR: Selling in-hand mining hardware on PayPal is apparently fine. Just make sure you properly classify your transactions and make sure you let buyers know the facts and only the facts about what you're selling. (no ROI claims, etc.)
May 18, 2013, 09:38:32 AM
Isn't this consider profiling and is illegal?
May 18, 2013, 01:28:55 AM
Oh also, if you are buying and reselling just "digital" coins, almost all need verified paypal with matching address, but thats been standard for as long as I can remember because of hacked accts and constant chargebacks. But in general, read through a few auctions if your a newbie before try it there.
Good luck!!
P.S. glad your account is unlocked
Good luck!!
P.S. glad your account is unlocked
May 18, 2013, 01:15:20 AM
You just got unlucky man, most people who buy and sell on there go unhitched.
I have sold tons of casascius, digital, and other bitcoin *related* stuff and I have never had a problem. Not once.
People who sells coins with physical receipts *tracking numbers* have virtually no problems.
And even most who just sell the digital coins will be able to with no issue. I mean there are over 600 search results when you type in bitcoin. So it is not really a big issue.
Unlike if you type in "modchip" or "Ukash" etc., which back in the day would find literally 0 results because it is against TOS, maybe a few if you were lucky.
The only ones who have ever had an issue or hear commonly of issues are people selling mining units, physically custom made bitcoin notes ex hand made QR notes, and ESPECIALLY pre-orders.
I have a phone call I recorded as well from around mid april, asking a representative about bitcoin, and ebay specifically does have it against any policy. Ebay is not the problem it is almost always PAYPAL.
So yeah, for now everything is hunky dory follow those things if you choose to sell their and you will probably be okay. However, with all these coins I am sure it will not be forever, so if you enjoy buying and selling on ebay, get it while it is hot so to speak. IMO at least. I think they should allow it to keep selling, boosts momentum for the currency, but I'm not in charge. Good luck!!
I have sold tons of casascius, digital, and other bitcoin *related* stuff and I have never had a problem. Not once.
People who sells coins with physical receipts *tracking numbers* have virtually no problems.
And even most who just sell the digital coins will be able to with no issue. I mean there are over 600 search results when you type in bitcoin. So it is not really a big issue.
Unlike if you type in "modchip" or "Ukash" etc., which back in the day would find literally 0 results because it is against TOS, maybe a few if you were lucky.
The only ones who have ever had an issue or hear commonly of issues are people selling mining units, physically custom made bitcoin notes ex hand made QR notes, and ESPECIALLY pre-orders.
I have a phone call I recorded as well from around mid april, asking a representative about bitcoin, and ebay specifically does have it against any policy. Ebay is not the problem it is almost always PAYPAL.
So yeah, for now everything is hunky dory follow those things if you choose to sell their and you will probably be okay. However, with all these coins I am sure it will not be forever, so if you enjoy buying and selling on ebay, get it while it is hot so to speak. IMO at least. I think they should allow it to keep selling, boosts momentum for the currency, but I'm not in charge. Good luck!!
May 17, 2013, 11:33:21 AM
It's normal in a totalitarian nazi police state........ 
What? With PayPal or the UK?Well that's not very encouraging is it?
I'll have to remove PayPal as an option for people buying from me on other forums then as I have no time to spend on this verifying business. It'll be either Bitcoins or bank transfer for my buyers in UK for items to sell on avforums.com now.
Both....
PayPal must have changed their rules in the UK then, I never had to provide any of that shite when I verified my account. Still, just another reason to not use them I suppose.....
May 17, 2013, 11:16:49 AM
It's normal in a totalitarian nazi police state........
What? With PayPal or the UK?Well that's not very encouraging is it?
I'll have to remove PayPal as an option for people buying from me on other forums then as I have no time to spend on this verifying business. It'll be either Bitcoins or bank transfer for my buyers in UK for items to sell on avforums.com now.
May 17, 2013, 11:01:56 AM
It's normal in a totalitarian nazi police state........
May 17, 2013, 06:11:00 AM
I wonder if this will affect used GPUs next seeing how they can also mine bitcoins (rather poorly I must add) if PayPal has a problem with 'bitcoin mining units'? Thanks for the tip. I'm also having an issue with PayPal in terms of verifying who I am (apparantly asks for Drivers license and proof of address after a while of being unverified from the start,is this normal?).
May 16, 2013, 02:20:42 PM
@OP: Mitty, can I ask how many Singles you sold before PayPal sent this? I have 5 that I was going to try and sell next week, but I'm a little hesitant now.
I find it funny that people are using paypal to purchase bitcoin mining hardware.
May 16, 2013, 02:07:46 PM
@OP: Mitty, can I ask how many Singles you sold before PayPal sent this? I have 5 that I was going to try and sell next week, but I'm a little hesitant now.
May 16, 2013, 01:51:24 AM
Show them that CPU's, GPU's, Iphones, Tablets, and itouche's can also MINE, and are, thus, "mining equipment"... and they will change the statement.
BFL's are not "dedicated" only to bitcoins, nor are any other devices, thus, can not be called "bitcoin miners", just because they are capable of that task. They would have to be dedicated to that task only. (ASIC's can mine any other alt-coin, that is based off SHA256, and perform other duties. Proof of that is on the website, in the software section. Shhh, that is for the FPGA's not the ASIC's... but they don't know that!)
Legally, you can sue them if you use CC or BANK-NOTES through PAYPAL... as... "This currency can be used for ALL DEBITS PUBLIC AND PRIVATE." It is a federal violation to "Refuse acceptance of currency of a federal note, for services." It is also a violation of the CC company, who is backed federally, and says roughly the same thing. (They had to agree to that, to accept a CC for transactions.)
They can only block actual "paypal - currency" that is originated from "paypal - currency". (EG, I pay THROUGH paypal, but the money I pay with is USD from a bank, or CC funds.)
BFL's are not "dedicated" only to bitcoins, nor are any other devices, thus, can not be called "bitcoin miners", just because they are capable of that task. They would have to be dedicated to that task only. (ASIC's can mine any other alt-coin, that is based off SHA256, and perform other duties. Proof of that is on the website, in the software section. Shhh, that is for the FPGA's not the ASIC's... but they don't know that!)
Legally, you can sue them if you use CC or BANK-NOTES through PAYPAL... as... "This currency can be used for ALL DEBITS PUBLIC AND PRIVATE." It is a federal violation to "Refuse acceptance of currency of a federal note, for services." It is also a violation of the CC company, who is backed federally, and says roughly the same thing. (They had to agree to that, to accept a CC for transactions.)
They can only block actual "paypal - currency" that is originated from "paypal - currency". (EG, I pay THROUGH paypal, but the money I pay with is USD from a bank, or CC funds.)
May 15, 2013, 08:16:49 PM
How does this affect services like https://btc2pp.net ?
May 15, 2013, 08:05:18 PM
The reason people still use paypal is because in normal transactions it gives the customer protection. Crypto coins do not. Like hell im going to send someone overseas 100 bitcoints for an avalon preorder with absolutely no protection. Until bitcoin gets a service similar to paypal that offers us protecion, paypal will be #1.
The sad truth is, Bitcoin is full of scammers and I have yet to see any alternatives to using paypal other than haveing a third person involved for escrow.
The sad truth is, Bitcoin is full of scammers and I have yet to see any alternatives to using paypal other than haveing a third person involved for escrow.
The answer to this is escrow. The problem is that there's no escrow (that I know of) that will execute trades into an out of bitcoin for you, so the seller is exposed to value risk. Also, it's a lot more annoying for something like this where completion of the sale could take months.
May 15, 2013, 06:24:21 PM
PayPal is eBay is rip-off merchants. They are not to be trusted whatsoever. Having said that, I do use them occasionally if I see a potential bargain, but I NEVER leave cash in my PayPal account - instead I transfer it to/from a bank account that I use solely for PayPal/eBay, then immediately transfer again to a different Bank account to ensure they can't rip me/freeze/steal any cash from me. As they do to thousands of people around the world. The scum.
Thanks to Bitcoin, their days are numbered.
Thanks to Bitcoin, their days are numbered.
May 15, 2013, 05:33:39 PM
$8 UPS notary fee and 2 days later, I once again have access to my PayPal account. wooo
May 14, 2013, 02:43:41 PM
Can we please stop using PayPal?
I just hate reading stories of people getting their funds locked up. And when did they add that caveat to their TOS about mining hardware? I read their TOS a few months back and it said nothing of the sort.
Anyway lets move away from PayPal and their bs. We have perfectly good alternatives like BTC, LTC and different e-currencies.
I just hate reading stories of people getting their funds locked up. And when did they add that caveat to their TOS about mining hardware? I read their TOS a few months back and it said nothing of the sort.
Anyway lets move away from PayPal and their bs. We have perfectly good alternatives like BTC, LTC and different e-currencies.
The reason people still use paypal is because in normal transactions it gives the customer protection. Crypto coins do not. Like hell im going to send someone overseas 100 bitcoints for an avalon preorder with absolutely no protection. Until bitcoin gets a service similar to paypal that offers us protecion, paypal will be #1.
The sad truth is, Bitcoin is full of scammers and I have yet to see any alternatives to using paypal other than haveing a third person involved for escrow.
May 14, 2013, 02:34:40 PM
If only Bitmit had the buyer volume of eBay... eBay/PayPal can get away with their scams/ridiculous fees simply because they have so many users.
All in good time.
May 14, 2013, 02:31:10 PM
Pay Pal are nothing better than thieves. They will randomly lock accounts. Supposedly "refund" money that has been in your account for months.
They will not communicate. You can only write within your account, you receive automated emails back that do not relate to what you have written.
If you phone, you get blatant lies told to you. Each call is finished by them telling you they will sort the problem if you get off the phone and that they will email you the resolve within an hour.
The email will come and it tells you exactly what you already know. Your account is FOREVER locked !
THIS IS WHY YOU COULD BUY 1 BITCOIN FOR $10 6 MONTHS AGO AND TODAY YOU NEED $120 TO GET ONE SINGLE COIN.
Wake up. It's YOUR MONEY !!!!!
They will not communicate. You can only write within your account, you receive automated emails back that do not relate to what you have written.
If you phone, you get blatant lies told to you. Each call is finished by them telling you they will sort the problem if you get off the phone and that they will email you the resolve within an hour.
The email will come and it tells you exactly what you already know. Your account is FOREVER locked !
THIS IS WHY YOU COULD BUY 1 BITCOIN FOR $10 6 MONTHS AGO AND TODAY YOU NEED $120 TO GET ONE SINGLE COIN.
Wake up. It's YOUR MONEY !!!!!
The funny thing is that if you email them in advance and ask if this is allowed they will tell you that it is allowed, as well as operating a Bitcoin exchange, selling Bitcoin hardware and so on, but if you actually do it they will freeze your account forever.
May 14, 2013, 02:14:24 PM
Pay Pal are nothing better than thieves. They will randomly lock accounts. Supposedly "refund" money that has been in your account for months.
They will not communicate. You can only write within your account, you receive automated emails back that do not relate to what you have written.
If you phone, you get blatant lies told to you. Each call is finished by them telling you they will sort the problem if you get off the phone and that they will email you the resolve within an hour.
The email will come and it tells you exactly what you already know. Your account is FOREVER locked !
THIS IS WHY YOU COULD BUY 1 BITCOIN FOR $10 6 MONTHS AGO AND TODAY YOU NEED $120 TO GET ONE SINGLE COIN.
Wake up. It's YOUR MONEY !!!!!
They will not communicate. You can only write within your account, you receive automated emails back that do not relate to what you have written.
If you phone, you get blatant lies told to you. Each call is finished by them telling you they will sort the problem if you get off the phone and that they will email you the resolve within an hour.
The email will come and it tells you exactly what you already know. Your account is FOREVER locked !
THIS IS WHY YOU COULD BUY 1 BITCOIN FOR $10 6 MONTHS AGO AND TODAY YOU NEED $120 TO GET ONE SINGLE COIN.
Wake up. It's YOUR MONEY !!!!!
Bingo. Great post couldn't agree more.
May 14, 2013, 03:23:19 AM
Quote
To continue using your PayPal account, we need some additional information
from you. Keep in mind that we have placed a limitation on your PayPal
account, and this limitation will remain until we receive and review this
information. Please provide us with the following:
• A brief affidavit stating that you understand and will comply with
PayPal's terms and conditions.
• The type of payments you will send and receive, including the type of
goods or services you will accept payments for in the future.
Below you will find suggested affidavit language. Please make sure that the
requested affidavit is signed and notarized.
I the undersigned do affirm that I understand and will comply with PayPal's
policy regarding the use of PayPal Accounts to sell e-currency, such as
bitcoins, bitcoin mining units, and other related bitcoin products. I
understand that PayPal may not be used to sell e-currency, such as
bitcoins, bitcoin mining units, and other related bitcoin products. I
further affirm that any further detected violation of the policy may result
in the immediate closure of, or restriction to access to the account.
from you. Keep in mind that we have placed a limitation on your PayPal
account, and this limitation will remain until we receive and review this
information. Please provide us with the following:
• A brief affidavit stating that you understand and will comply with
PayPal's terms and conditions.
• The type of payments you will send and receive, including the type of
goods or services you will accept payments for in the future.
Below you will find suggested affidavit language. Please make sure that the
requested affidavit is signed and notarized.
I the undersigned do affirm that I understand and will comply with PayPal's
policy regarding the use of PayPal Accounts to sell e-currency, such as
bitcoins, bitcoin mining units, and other related bitcoin products. I
understand that PayPal may not be used to sell e-currency, such as
bitcoins, bitcoin mining units, and other related bitcoin products. I
further affirm that any further detected violation of the policy may result
in the immediate closure of, or restriction to access to the account.
I have to admire the preposterous way they make you jump through hoops just to re-enable access to your money. The classic "Write 100 times on the blackboard" punishment.
Quote
We look forward to hearing from you and thank you for choosing PayPal as
your business partner.
your business partner.
And this completes the shit sandwich.
Truly, this organization needs to die in a fire.
I'm glad we can all contribute to that end.
I agree. It will be fantastic to see Bitcoin put a flamethrower on this sea-monster which spouts doublespeak like that in George Orwell's 1984.
May 14, 2013, 03:03:36 AM
Wrong im my opinion.
They see competition and without welcoming it, they try to shut it down.
Yet, paypal is pretty much a monopoly company, also illegal.
They see competition and without welcoming it, they try to shut it down.
Yet, paypal is pretty much a monopoly company, also illegal.
May 12, 2013, 09:03:52 PM
Pay Pal are nothing better than thieves. They will randomly lock accounts. Supposedly "refund" money that has been in your account for months.
They will not communicate. You can only write within your account, you receive automated emails back that do not relate to what you have written.
If you phone, you get blatant lies told to you. Each call is finished by them telling you they will sort the problem if you get off the phone and that they will email you the resolve within an hour.
The email will come and it tells you exactly what you already know. Your account is FOREVER locked !
THIS IS WHY YOU COULD BUY 1 BITCOIN FOR $10 6 MONTHS AGO AND TODAY YOU NEED $120 TO GET ONE SINGLE COIN.
Wake up. It's YOUR MONEY !!!!!
They will not communicate. You can only write within your account, you receive automated emails back that do not relate to what you have written.
If you phone, you get blatant lies told to you. Each call is finished by them telling you they will sort the problem if you get off the phone and that they will email you the resolve within an hour.
The email will come and it tells you exactly what you already know. Your account is FOREVER locked !
THIS IS WHY YOU COULD BUY 1 BITCOIN FOR $10 6 MONTHS AGO AND TODAY YOU NEED $120 TO GET ONE SINGLE COIN.
Wake up. It's YOUR MONEY !!!!!
May 12, 2013, 11:45:09 AM
paypal has always been a pain the ass for selling or buying anything, they just flag accounts randomly or whenever they feel they aren't making enough money off the fees if you ask me
May 12, 2013, 09:16:35 AM
PayPal sucks so much, and will pass on the ball in the near future 
May 12, 2013, 07:31:05 AM
if Bitcoin becomes a success, then Paypall might loose a lot of transactions.
This is their way of stopping anything about bitcoin.
Paypall got a lot of negative news also because of their 2% stealing, as often mentioned in articles about bitcoin.
“First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, and then you win.”
This is their way of stopping anything about bitcoin.
Paypall got a lot of negative news also because of their 2% stealing, as often mentioned in articles about bitcoin.
“First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, and then you win.”
May 12, 2013, 01:14:45 AM
Quote
To continue using your PayPal account, we need some additional information
from you. Keep in mind that we have placed a limitation on your PayPal
account, and this limitation will remain until we receive and review this
information. Please provide us with the following:
• A brief affidavit stating that you understand and will comply with
PayPal's terms and conditions.
• The type of payments you will send and receive, including the type of
goods or services you will accept payments for in the future.
Below you will find suggested affidavit language. Please make sure that the
requested affidavit is signed and notarized.
I the undersigned do affirm that I understand and will comply with PayPal's
policy regarding the use of PayPal Accounts to sell e-currency, such as
bitcoins, bitcoin mining units, and other related bitcoin products. I
understand that PayPal may not be used to sell e-currency, such as
bitcoins, bitcoin mining units, and other related bitcoin products. I
further affirm that any further detected violation of the policy may result
in the immediate closure of, or restriction to access to the account.
from you. Keep in mind that we have placed a limitation on your PayPal
account, and this limitation will remain until we receive and review this
information. Please provide us with the following:
• A brief affidavit stating that you understand and will comply with
PayPal's terms and conditions.
• The type of payments you will send and receive, including the type of
goods or services you will accept payments for in the future.
Below you will find suggested affidavit language. Please make sure that the
requested affidavit is signed and notarized.
I the undersigned do affirm that I understand and will comply with PayPal's
policy regarding the use of PayPal Accounts to sell e-currency, such as
bitcoins, bitcoin mining units, and other related bitcoin products. I
understand that PayPal may not be used to sell e-currency, such as
bitcoins, bitcoin mining units, and other related bitcoin products. I
further affirm that any further detected violation of the policy may result
in the immediate closure of, or restriction to access to the account.
I have to admire the preposterous way they make you jump through hoops just to re-enable access to your money. The classic "Write 100 times on the blackboard" punishment.
Quote
We look forward to hearing from you and thank you for choosing PayPal as
your business partner.
your business partner.
And this completes the shit sandwich.
Truly, this organization needs to die in a fire.
I'm glad we can all contribute to that end.
May 12, 2013, 12:12:29 AM
Try to tell them you are selling not Bitcoin mining rig but a SHA-256 hashing device. Formally, this does not breaks their rules!
I tried to explain that a regular computer could be a "bitcoin mining unit" to the guy I talked to today (after 30+ minutes of being on hold) but he told me I'd have to take it up with their compliance department, which conveniently doesn't take calls, only emails that they take 24-48 hours to respond to.The PayPal rep I talked to yesterday when I was trying to get my account unlocked said that they consider Bitcoin to be "monopoly money" but then she actually lightened up and became friendly when I told her I was simply reselling hardware I had previously purchased using PayPal. She also said that they've been getting a lot of Bitcoin-related calls lately which probably explains why they don't like it.
If only Bitmit had the buyer volume of eBay... eBay/PayPal can get away with their scams/ridiculous fees simply because they have so many users.
May 11, 2013, 11:25:38 PM
Try to tell them you are selling not Bitcoin mining rig but a SHA-256 hashing device. Formally, this does not breaks their rules!
May 11, 2013, 08:55:43 PM
So I can't sell my computer or android phone on ebay? It mines bitcoins!
May 11, 2013, 08:44:06 PM
Can we please stop using PayPal?
I just hate reading stories of people getting their funds locked up. And when did they add that caveat to their TOS about mining hardware? I read their TOS a few months back and it said nothing of the sort.
Anyway lets move away from PayPal and their bs. We have perfectly good alternatives like BTC, LTC and different e-currencies.
I just hate reading stories of people getting their funds locked up. And when did they add that caveat to their TOS about mining hardware? I read their TOS a few months back and it said nothing of the sort.
Anyway lets move away from PayPal and their bs. We have perfectly good alternatives like BTC, LTC and different e-currencies.
We would be a) ebay is to good a source for everything as a reselling platform and paypal works for that as it's the same company, they don't care about alternatives
b) it is one of the easier shopping cart methods, most other systems didn't have backing and just weren't simple enough to set up maybe bitcoin will change this eventually, but getting coins is still hard at times.
May 11, 2013, 07:07:17 PM
Can we please stop using PayPal?
I just hate reading stories of people getting their funds locked up. And when did they add that caveat to their TOS about mining hardware? I read their TOS a few months back and it said nothing of the sort.
Anyway lets move away from PayPal and their bs. We have perfectly good alternatives like BTC, LTC and different e-currencies.
I just hate reading stories of people getting their funds locked up. And when did they add that caveat to their TOS about mining hardware? I read their TOS a few months back and it said nothing of the sort.
Anyway lets move away from PayPal and their bs. We have perfectly good alternatives like BTC, LTC and different e-currencies.
May 11, 2013, 06:47:03 PM
Also forgot to add that PayPal screwed me on US to CAN conversion.
Yeah they'll do that.
I guess I can partly see Paypal's side from the pre-order nonsense, but if you're selling a physical existing object, which for all intents and purposes is just a computer, I'm not sure how you can deem that specific item (which is legal) as against TOS.
May 11, 2013, 06:26:43 PM
Also forgot to add that PayPal screwed me on US to CAN conversion.
May 11, 2013, 06:24:29 PM
I've sold my BFL pre-order for $3000 + $199 shipping fees.
First PayPal charged me $125 fees for receiving payment then eBay charged me $255 selling fees. I will never sell anything on eBay again.
First PayPal charged me $125 fees for receiving payment then eBay charged me $255 selling fees. I will never sell anything on eBay again.
Here is a calculator that will help you determine all the fees. Usually, its 12-15% of your overall selling price that ebay & paypal gets.
http://www.newlifeauctions.com/calc.html
May 11, 2013, 06:22:54 PM
I've sold my BFL pre-order for $3000 + $199 shipping.
First PayPal charged me $125 fees for receiving payment then eBay charged me $255 selling fees. It was my first and last time selling anything on eBay. Bitmit has much more reasonable fees.
First PayPal charged me $125 fees for receiving payment then eBay charged me $255 selling fees. It was my first and last time selling anything on eBay. Bitmit has much more reasonable fees.
May 11, 2013, 06:18:37 PM
I see auctions going off left and right on ebay with 0 problems. I have watched some and not seen any kicked off. Weird, but I have seen physical coins and digital coins selling with zero issues.
Pre-order could be the issue.
Pre-order could be the issue.
May 11, 2013, 06:04:42 PM
And then you can see John Donahoe that fucking gazelle taunting the lion that is Bitcoin.
May 11, 2013, 05:48:56 PM
I can see why there's a problem with bitcoin miners tbh, I think Butterfly labs excepting paypal has meant that a lot of money is riding on if they ever deliver, supposedly BFL have only been sending out a small number to keep paypal happy so it makes more sense that they don't want their claim system over run being somewhat dodgy transactions.
At the end of the day eventually we'll see thing like Paypal hopefully become a thing of the past, it's really a horrible company.
At the end of the day eventually we'll see thing like Paypal hopefully become a thing of the past, it's really a horrible company.
The problem was all of the 'pre-order' sales. So many of them were scams that now even that is out. In reality Paypal could allow in stock sales of bitcoin miners as well as known physical shipped bitcoins. Paypal wants to avoid having chargebacks, and pre-orders and online bitcoins give LOTS of chargebacks. I am not defending them, I think they suck and are ignoring loosing out on money they could be making if they were just SMART.
May 11, 2013, 05:00:37 PM
I wonder if Paypal has noticed a dip in usage since Bitcoin became more popular... 
May 11, 2013, 04:48:21 PM
I can see why there's a problem with bitcoin miners tbh, I think Butterfly labs excepting paypal has meant that a lot of money is riding on if they ever deliver, supposedly BFL have only been sending out a small number to keep paypal happy so it makes more sense that they don't want their claim system over run being somewhat dodgy transactions.
At the end of the day eventually we'll see thing like Paypal hopefully become a thing of the past, it's really a horrible company.
At the end of the day eventually we'll see thing like Paypal hopefully become a thing of the past, it's really a horrible company.
May 11, 2013, 04:31:03 PM
LOL
Fuck them.
Fuck them.
May 11, 2013, 04:29:52 PM
Over the past week I've been selling BFL Singles (FPGA) on eBay until today I got the following email from PayPal. (below)
TL;DR:
This is news to me, as I'm pretty sure Butterfly Labs has been taking in millions of $ via PayPal, along with all the sales facilitated through these forums. My PayPal account was actually locked yesterday due to someone paying me as a "gift" transaction (I didn't request this- he just sent it that way) and I called them and explained what I was selling, showed them a few PayPal transactions where I purchased the BFL Singles to prove that they weren't stolen, and had my account unlocked. I even called eBay and had my selling limit increased and told the customer support rep that I was selling bitcoin mining hardware.
So take it as a warning- be careful if you use PayPal for anything related to Bitcoin. I currently have thousands of USD locked up in PayPal that I can't get to; if this isn't a good reason for the use of Bitcoin then I don't know what is. Unfortunately it's still not easy to pay everyday expenses in BTC. :/
Full email:
TL;DR:
Quote from: Email from PayPal
PayPal may not be used to sell e-currency, such as bitcoins, bitcoin mining units, and other related bitcoin products.
This is news to me, as I'm pretty sure Butterfly Labs has been taking in millions of $ via PayPal, along with all the sales facilitated through these forums. My PayPal account was actually locked yesterday due to someone paying me as a "gift" transaction (I didn't request this- he just sent it that way) and I called them and explained what I was selling, showed them a few PayPal transactions where I purchased the BFL Singles to prove that they weren't stolen, and had my account unlocked. I even called eBay and had my selling limit increased and told the customer support rep that I was selling bitcoin mining hardware.
So take it as a warning- be careful if you use PayPal for anything related to Bitcoin. I currently have thousands of USD locked up in PayPal that I can't get to; if this isn't a good reason for the use of Bitcoin then I don't know what is.
Unfortunately it's still not easy to pay everyday expenses in BTC. :/Full email:
Quote
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We need your help
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear (removed),
We have reviewed your PayPal account and found that you are selling bitcoin
mining machines. Per our current Acceptable Use Policy for Money Service
Businesses, PayPal may not be used to operate a currency exchange, bureau
de change or check cashing business including the sale of bitcoins, bitcoin
mining units, and other related bitcoin products.
To continue using your PayPal account, we need some additional information
from you. Keep in mind that we have placed a limitation on your PayPal
account, and this limitation will remain until we receive and review this
information. Please provide us with the following:
• A brief affidavit stating that you understand and will comply with
PayPal's terms and conditions.
• The type of payments you will send and receive, including the type of
goods or services you will accept payments for in the future.
Below you will find suggested affidavit language. Please make sure that the
requested affidavit is signed and notarized.
I the undersigned do affirm that I understand and will comply with PayPal's
policy regarding the use of PayPal Accounts to sell e-currency, such as
bitcoins, bitcoin mining units, and other related bitcoin products. I
understand that PayPal may not be used to sell e-currency, such as
bitcoins, bitcoin mining units, and other related bitcoin products. I
further affirm that any further detected violation of the policy may result
in the immediate closure of, or restriction to access to the account.
Please log in to your account and go to the Resolution Center to find out
what you need to do. Your account will remain limited until the issue is
resolved.
Additionally, in the future, if we find that your account is acting as a
seller of bitcoin products, we will need to sever our business relationship
with you.
We look forward to hearing from you and thank you for choosing PayPal as
your business partner.
Sincerely,
Megan
PayPal Compliance Department
PayPal, an eBay Company
Please do not reply to this email address as it is not monitored and we
will not receive your response. You can get in touch with us by clicking
"Contact Us" at the bottom of any PayPal page.
Copyright © 1999-2013 PayPal. All rights reserved.
We need your help
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear (removed),
We have reviewed your PayPal account and found that you are selling bitcoin
mining machines. Per our current Acceptable Use Policy for Money Service
Businesses, PayPal may not be used to operate a currency exchange, bureau
de change or check cashing business including the sale of bitcoins, bitcoin
mining units, and other related bitcoin products.
To continue using your PayPal account, we need some additional information
from you. Keep in mind that we have placed a limitation on your PayPal
account, and this limitation will remain until we receive and review this
information. Please provide us with the following:
• A brief affidavit stating that you understand and will comply with
PayPal's terms and conditions.
• The type of payments you will send and receive, including the type of
goods or services you will accept payments for in the future.
Below you will find suggested affidavit language. Please make sure that the
requested affidavit is signed and notarized.
I the undersigned do affirm that I understand and will comply with PayPal's
policy regarding the use of PayPal Accounts to sell e-currency, such as
bitcoins, bitcoin mining units, and other related bitcoin products. I
understand that PayPal may not be used to sell e-currency, such as
bitcoins, bitcoin mining units, and other related bitcoin products. I
further affirm that any further detected violation of the policy may result
in the immediate closure of, or restriction to access to the account.
Please log in to your account and go to the Resolution Center to find out
what you need to do. Your account will remain limited until the issue is
resolved.
Additionally, in the future, if we find that your account is acting as a
seller of bitcoin products, we will need to sever our business relationship
with you.
We look forward to hearing from you and thank you for choosing PayPal as
your business partner.
Sincerely,
Megan
PayPal Compliance Department
PayPal, an eBay Company
Please do not reply to this email address as it is not monitored and we
will not receive your response. You can get in touch with us by clicking
"Contact Us" at the bottom of any PayPal page.
Copyright © 1999-2013 PayPal. All rights reserved.
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