Topic: Are the Western people very apolitical? (Read 353 times)

I want to make one more post to express my pain, since it seems that there is no country on Earth where I could live. I hate Russia, but only in the Russian Web I am able to find forums where I can talk about political science.
Now I hope, that when a civil war occurs in the USA, the Western world will start painfully getting rid of this s..t. Maybe youtube bloggers like Derek Muller will start talking about politics, and luring the viewers from TV…

Strong position of third or fourth party in our country's politics. Those parties have always played a controversial role and are eager to create a mess in the country. The common people are always disoriented by it and are left out of the normal process of elections including the establishment of democracy. Many people in the western world including America have been putting pressure or threats on the current government in many ways.

I am afraid that even different Republican candidates are different sides of the same coin too. For example, Vivek Ramaswamy offers cryptocurrencies support which seems good, but he also promises to abandon Ukraine, so for people like me it would be is impossible to vote for him. There is no politician which offers only things which will be supported by most people, because the politicians in general have a kind of "price fixing".

It does not look that way in any way. You are parroting the Ruzzian propaganda that is trying desperately to show Putin as an international leader. He is not, the only nations that support him are Iran, North Korea and similar regimes, any other nation is just trying to keep Putin away from their soil, to avoid having to arrest him and cause an international incident.

- The US has not invaded Ukraine, Putin did. He is a threat.
- The investment in BRICS has not changes, the economic ties between countries do not change just because Putin makes a discourse in the local Ruzzian TV.

All noise, no substance as usual, only for people like you dumBAss.

What does a conspiracy of billionaires have to do with the trillionaires? Nobody was talking about billionaires or conspiracies. Besides, Jesus said in Luke 11:18: So, why would there even be a conspiracy? It's all a show to take in the suckers among the people.

For example. Everybody thinks that Russia is against the US. Everybody thinks that the sanctions were done to weaken Russia. In fact, those sanctions have strengthened Russia and the BRICS nations. So it backfired - at least it looks that way. But they knew that the sanctions would strengthen Russia. That's why they did them. It's all part of the unification of the one-world-government. Trick the people into thinking that there is a major fight going on, when it is all designed for further unification... behind the backs of the people.

Sure, but why, if there is a conspiracy of billionaires, would they work against each other like that?

Doesn't sound like a very efficient conspiracy theory to me...

Okay, I'll spell it out for you. Money and control.

The Republican Party and the Democratic Party are two sides of the same coin. And neither side is focused on getting rid of the corrupt banking system. Both parties want to enhance and use the banking system more than they are using it already.

Where is money located? In the banking system. Big money people LOVE money and never have enough money. Money buys them control and everything else they want in life. So, they will support the Parties that focus on anything other than the corruption in the banking system and the money... so they get to keep more money and more control.

I definitely don't trust the polls in Russia--and that's the whole point.

The reason they obtain this "loyalty" is because there are no constitutional protections for a free press like there are in the US and other free countries. Just saying, "democracy" alone doesn't get you anywhere per se.

I am not sure this is correct. You should not trust the polls in Russia: it is forbidden to say there that you are against the war or that you want to give some territories to Ukraine, so most people just don’t answer anything in these polls. More interesting are some psychological researches, which reveal strange Freudian effects; you can watch this information here:

https://youtu.be/9_0E9IzXT34

It seems that the Russians now have “ultra-loyalist” mentality and they are ready to support everything the power will suggest – from returning Crimea to Ukraine to starting a nuclear war.

Again, why would these wealthy people back both Trump and Biden?

I answered your question. But you seem to be like so many that simply don't understand. So, rather than answer it again, I'll post the link to my comment where I answered it. Let's see if you can understand the answer now that you know that it is there - https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.63435668.

As far as the wealthy who control the CIA, they are the owners of The Federal Reserve Bank. How do we know? All the banks in the US are tied to the Fed. They all create new money out of the promissory notes that they get for the loans they make. In other words, they get loan repayment twice. Once in the borrower's repayment over the years. But the first time in the signed promissory note that they convert into money. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Tom+Schauf+bank+freedom&ia=web

Yes, but not of "smart country", rather and educated society as I said. Now if you are a college student in US that may be completely different depending on your Uni.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/rankings/well-developed-public-education-system


do not expect an "answer" as you or I would commonly understand from "dumBAss".

You never answered the question. If the CIA controls everything on behalf of the super-wealthy, then why do you care about electoral politics? Why do you advocate people vote for one party or another if it doesn't matter?

Also, who are these "wealthy" who control the CIA? It seems to be that there are very VERY wealthy people like Michael Bloomberg on the side of the Democrats and Rupert Murdoch on the side of the Republicans and they seem to want opposite parties to win the election. How do you explain that?

You could contact the CIA in Langley, VA. The specifics of what they do and why are only known to them, and the wealthy who pull their strings.

So the CIA controls voting? Interesting.

Why did the CIA choose Trump in 2016, and then Biden in 2020? Who will they choose in 2024?

And if the CIA chooses our politicians, then why especially do you care about the subject of politics? Seems like a waste of time if the outcome is already determined and out of your control.

Also, what else does the CIA control? There was a restaurant I really liked in my area that went out of business. Everybody liked it and it appeared to be doing great, and yet it failed. Could that be the CIA too?

But these things that you say are shown to not be absolutely correct. Consider what Stalin said, "The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything."

"But that was Stalin," you say. But the Bolsheviks, from whom Stalin sprang, were financed by the US and rich people from the US - and other countries - https://duckduckgo.com/?q=who+financed+the+bolsheviks%3F&ia=web.

In fact, the the Ukraine elections since 2014 were influenced by the CIA against the people... just as the CIA controls the results of the US elections. The electronic voting machines have back doors that allow them to be controlled by 'hackers' over the Internet. Consider http://www.theorangerevolution.com/orangerevolution0.html.

The point is that voting decides little. Rather, voting is a pacification program used by the powerful (the CIA) to pacify the people into thinking that they did their best, or that they won, so that they don't openly revolt and straighten things out. Something like that would take power away from the rich, and the rich just couldn't stand something like that.

Of course, if I were a very wealthy person who was 300 years old, I would probably want to hide this fact from people. Why? Because the rich who are evil are fools. They are going to die someday, and they will ultimately have to face God to account for the evil they have done.

Actually, I do not believe it is fair to compare those countries with other republics like the United States or any western country where people is allowed to vote. The biggest difference in my opinion is the fact people in those two eastern countries do not even have the choice to vote for other parties which are not the communist party of China and the communist party of north korea. In those circumstances I would even say those people have an actual vote, I would only say people have a vote in places where there are several options for parties to reach the presidency or head of state. I would even put in doubt the status of USA as an actual complete democracy, since the president is not elected directly and there is a very strong duopoly of power between the republican and de democrat party.

If both the Red and the blue parties are aware people will continue to vote for both of them no matter what, then they won't care for actual policies and solving the most important problems of their society, engage in corruption, among other things. If there was a big chance of the third party gaining force there in the north, those two parties would realize they cannot just to continue to engage in political shows and lose time which could be used to improve the life of the average voter.

Hi there. American here. Do you have an example of a "smart" country that demonstrates how "ignorant" the US is in comparison?

A direct democracy  of "high frequency consulting" regime in my view may work in Switzerland, but it also creates too much overhead (people voting takes time, reading the proposals takes time, understanding what you are actually voting may take a lifetime of study). It also requires a population that is quite well educated and very aware of the effects of populism and manipulation.

The population in the US has been specifically kept ignorant. Their secondary programme is a joke.

Are the Western people very apolitical?


No. Westerners love politics. Watch this:

The Ballad of Maddog Quinn - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRsXa3-LCc0.

Then watch Alex Jones predict war between the US and Russia. Sunday Live: Globalists Attempt to Cover Up Vax Deaths as Blue Cities Announce New Covid Measures - https://banned.video/watch?id=65920851be3fe4c20c4c7aac.

Most Russians polled support the war. Indeed, if you are telling the truth about who you are and views, then you are risking your life by posting here.

And that's the point: simply having a vote doesn't mean anything. Putin will win with 99% of the vote, just like Xi would in China, and like Kim Jong Un would in PRK.

Simply having a vote, by itself, doesn't mean anything. The US was founded with freedom of speech and press--to take just one example--in order to allow democracy to mean something. It's not as simple as you are making it out to be here.

I didn’t expect that my thread will attract so much criticism. Maybe I will be able to formulate my opinion with more arguments in future. By the way, a famous liberal writer Steven Pinker (who writes that the humanity moves towards a better world) has a book “Enlightenment Now”; and if indeed the Enlightenment continues, this must mean that a new Great Revolt will soon happen? Isn’t that the main goal of the crypto enthusiasts?

From my experience, one of the quickest ways to get the "first worlders" flee a discussion platform is to fill it with third worlders and let them know about it. It will make them feel inferior and ashamed that they have been interacting, making connections and dwelling with third class people or subhumans. One of the remedy for this is to rank them above the third worlders on the platform, whether they qualify or not. Or reward them more... Don't just treat everyone equally.
In regards to being apolitical, they are very much into politics and seem to like it... like how much many Americans like wrestling. There are people who don't really like politics though, and It's mostly about the nature of politics that's filled with negativity, pessimism, bitterness etc which lots of nerds and gentlemen I also encounter on couple of science forums/groups I was part of didn't really like. They just want to forget about politics and be optimistic, loving, caring, happy, etc.
I noticed there were members who didn't really like theories and speculations from other members and I used to be suspicious and mad at them for discouraging what is typically acceptable in the science world. I thought they were never really science inclined but were just there to cause confusion, hurt us, make us hopeless or derail our progress.

The Russians are brainwashed by the proparanda, but I am sure that even they would have rejected such a proposal in a referendum if it had been held.

So if they passed a referendum in Russia saying they should take over Ukraine and then invade Poland after that, um... then what?

America, it should be noted, was not founded as an unlimited democracy and I suspect you don't fully understand Switzerland either (although I'm no expert on their constitution).

There is no Putin's propaganda that the Western countries suffer from a lack of democracy (or maybe just a bit, in contraditions with other statements). The Putin's propaganda is aimed at discrediting democracy, and especially discretiting Maidan (pro-democratic revolt in Ukraine).
The propaganda in Russia tries to combine democracy and homosexuality in the minds of Russians; and I try to argue on Russian forums, that these problems couldn't occur if everything in the West was decided via a referendum. I have already written about this here.

So you say that freedom is slavery and having money means you don't have money, even though this is self-contradictory.

And also you say you are anti-Putin and not pro-Putin even though your are repeating Putin's anti-Western propaganda.

I agree DeathAngel and would expand on what you say by adding Western Societies are
NOT apolitical, they are actually all democratic societies.

The OP is from Russia, one of the few dictatorships in the continent of Europe.

Its also a bit of a stretch and generalisation for the OP to say westerners are only
interested in cryptocurrencies when there is monetary gain, its actually a global trait
as is being interested in cryptocurrencies for the science factor, its not just a western thing.

Well, for me the best society is Switzerland, where a referendum is performed each 3 months. I think that if a similar model had been adopted in the United States, the current problems of the United States most likely would not exist.

Look, you should try all this somewhere else. If there is a forum that is well past the manipulation, fomo, fud and propaganda is this one. You can say "I am anti-putin" but then provide all the propaganda that pretty much proves the contrary.

This is the usual technique of casting shadows of doubt with half-truth and "reasonable doubts" adding up the argument of "it is not perfect, so it is not good". For example: "corporations have a lot of influence in the US elections, so US and Ruzzia are both the same". "US tortured in Guantanamo, so US an Ruzzia are the same". Another thing you will find in the "the West" is people who are well aware of this type of discourse.

If you think Western democracies are not "true" democracies, you would need to say where you can actually find one that is. This is not black an white, there is grayscale from North Korea to Norway and at least the EU and for now US, Canada and a few others are "white enough".

I didn't say that Russia has democracy. My views are very anti-Putins.
I would be glad if the replies here about the Western world are right, and it is difficult for me to prove my point of view, since this conclusion is rather intuitive than based on concerete facts. I suggest you to watch 3 videos which support this point of view, can you please comment them:

"The illusion of democracy":

https://youtu.be/mhOOziH7QAo

"How Money Became Worthless":

https://youtu.be/Co_tVd9gA2I

"Money as debt":

https://youtu.be/4AC6RSau7r8

Note that OP is from Russia and dares to criticize how little democracy we have in our countries. I'd like to remind OP that "democratically" elected president Putin "democratically" changed the constitution to become the president for the third time.
I bet that his democratic government asked the people if they want to invade a neighboring country and the majority said yes, so they did. (sarcasm).
We have more democracy in Europe than you do in Russia, prove me wrong OP. At least I'm not being chased around town by police for wearing a blue jacket over a yellow shirt.

Not really because I have also come into contact with many people in the West who have a real curiosity for fields that do not always receive much attention, I was very surprised to discover a top university in America with a major in theology, a field that I think is the end of all fields. But we also strongly agree that from the current life perspective, people believe more in empirical things than in things that are still unclear, or simply in a way that completely denies everything that they cannot explain.

As in the field of medicine, things like meridians and acupuncture points are known to have existed for thousands of years in many Eastern cultures, but only in recent years have Western research accepted that they are the truth, and they cannot know exactly how humans can find those things. Yep, in life it is true that there are still many things that we cannot explain. Along with developing and finding new/old things, we should show a more objective spirit towards everything, and not also that it always brings scientific achievements to explain everything. I once read about the book "Journey to the East" perhaps at some point the shift in research will move towards this land where things go beyond scientific explanation and only await acceptance.

However, I have also talked to people do try to willingly ignore politics during two or three years and only care to get information about candidates for the white house during cycles like this one, when all the population of the United States and beyond get interested on who is supposed to lead the nation. I have never lived in the United States, but I have talked to friends who live there and the political situation and division there can be so bad that they would rather to actually become ignorant on those topics and escape from the political confrontations within the American society, but nowadays it is almost imposible to do so, due to all being politicized: sports, gender, churches, social media, even food. There is no wonder why some people who are already mentally unstable snap and commit violence against others or themselves.

I have always thought that the ideal country or democracy is one where one as citizen does not need to take much about politics, but rather focus on living one's life as happy as possible, if people are happy then why bother to spoil one happiness by overthinking on those bitter topics?

It is the western government that decides this apolitical position with such a terrible conservative government that controls the meida as much as it does. As a result of this governing system, young citizens are timid and undaring and prone to snowflaking. A controlled system and soft handling of growing children mean they are only giving out their government to immigrants

I would extend this by saying that you will never find any definition of human existence where "money does not matter". Money, representing the citizens freely trading with one another, will always be present in any free society. And yes, money will influence politics in a democracy in lots of ways.

I think the power of "big money" is less than it's ever been before. Politicians, in the US at least, are now heavily influenced by donors sending them tiny bits of money--ten dollars or fifty dollars and the like. One can argue that this has lead to some really, really stupid politics where politicians perform publicity stunts instead of governing for the long term, but this situation is much more "democratic" than it was even 20 years ago.

I totally get what you're saying about the U.S. Everyone's into politics, and it makes sense with all those channels and media making a big deal out of it, as it should be. There are just people who choose to take a break for their sanity. I totally get and respect that call. Sometimes, you just need a break from all the political noise for your own peace of mind but that doesnt mean that you should be ignorant.

I am not sure what is your idea of a "real democracy" Please notice that you will never find in any definition of democracy that "money does not matter".

There is never ever a perfect form of anything except in our ideas (Plato said). However, most of these regimes do have voting, free press, individual rights, independent judiciary and a system of balances. So yes, they are actually democracies. You can get as much information as you want in "the West" - note that Ruzzia is partially "the West" of the Urals. You will find little difference in the art, writings and architecture of Moscow related to central Europe capitals.

You can also choose your sources of information or create your own. There are some limitation on supporting Nazi groups, organisations marked as terrorists and some other extremisms.

All democracies are strongly influenced by money. Private property is consistent with the individual rights that are part of any participative regime and those with money do whatever they can to avoid giving it to others and getting more for themselves. However, the education is mandatory till at leas 16, usually 18 years. People can read history, philosophy or anything they want if they feel like it. Most do understand political tendencies and are aware of massive manipulation techniques.

However, people are not "apolitical" even if they tend not to discuss about it. I am sure you can find forums to discuss your ideas such as this one. What people tend to do is to judge how things are going for them, what the government is doing and what is likely the path forward.

I am not sure why would you think western people are apolitical, or less political then other regions? But if you try to inject pseudo science on scientific forums (not sure what you are referring to), or use them as your personal space for political agitation. I wouldn't be surprised that they are banning those subjects. That doesn't mean those people are apolitical, they just want to focus on the problem solving, not fighting. So it's just not the correct forum for it. It sounds more like "Sir, This is a Wendy's" -situation-.

And saying "Western democracies are mostly not democracies" is also pretty rich coming from someone living under a literal dictatorship. So you need to back that up with something.

I am certain it must be hard to believe things would be different in anywhere else, when you have lived under literal dictatorship your whole life. And saying that there's an evil elite making westerns stupid is just weird. If some underpaid tv script writers are able to keep your eyes shut, and reprogram your brain, it might not be their fault. Anyone saying it's a part of big plan makes me think they haven't ever planned anything bigger then a shopping list.

Bitcointalk has a sections for other then crypto talk, unlike some forums, and these sections are popular because of free speech. And let's not forget that russian cryptotalk forum exists, where people get paid for talking cryptocurrencies, and funny enough, mention of the war can get you banned. That's literally written in their rules.

I don't think people from the United States are truly apolitical. Otherwise, it would not make much sense there are so many politicsl channels and media which are obviously profitable for their respective networks. I believe what happens, is thst the importance of the United States polítics is so big in these lastest years that people from all around the planet is paying more attention to it and reading the news ahead the presidential election we are going to witness in 10 months.

Though, I also must say there have been people who have decided not to get involved and care anymore about politics, for the sake of their mental health and their own integrity, specially in the United States. I have personally talked to one of them and it is a decision I can perfectly understand and respect.

I live in a "Western democracy" and it's... a democracy, last I checked.

Maybe instead of being "stupid", like you say, maybe most people here haven't engaged the violent overthrow of our government because they are... smart? If Trump would have succeeded in his attack on our government a few years ago everybody here would have kissed their portfolios goodbye (including your crypto, which would have crashed along with everything else).

Revolting against the established liberal democratic government, it turns out, is really really REALLY bad for business--especially if that country was the home of the financial world's reserve currency for instance.

Yes, you can protest against Biden or Trump. But they are not the real rulers of the USA; the latter are rather anonymous.

Can you provide some links to these podcasts?

@GrLinkey These two statements "Western democracies are mostly not democracies indeed" and "the ruling elites make the people stupid and apolitical, because overwise the people can think about a revolt." is pure nonsense. They are completely inappropriate statements.

Can you go and protest against the president of many countries, including yours? No, you cannot, you will get arrested. In the countries you call "Western democracies," people have political freedoms and they can say or do whatever they want.

There is not anything like "Western people" in the first place. The Western culture has many common things in terms of social and political standards  - political pluralism, freedom to express opinion without being persecuted by the government, freedom of expression, freedom of the press, and many other freedoms, that do not exist in many countries. Western societies and multicultural, multi-ethnical, and multi-racial, therefore very complex. Still, cultures and habits in the different countries vary. For that reason there are no "Western people" - there re "Western societies".

Western people are not inherently apolitical. Some people may choose not to engage in political activities or discussions but there are many Western people who are actively involved in politics & express their opinions on various issues. Political engagement varies among individuals & can be influenced by factors such as personal beliefs, interests & societal context. It would be inaccurate to generalise all Western people as apolitical as political participation is diverse & can take various forms.

Nerds are different from people who engage in political discussions/debates. Everywhere people tend to talk about their political structure either positively or negatively and there is no exception, except for people from North Korea.

Maybe you are looking in the wrong forums?

I can see hundreds of political-based podcasts coming from the western world of various youtube channels.

Well this forum is mainly about bitcoin so it is only understandable if the people participating in here are going to want to talk about bitcoin more if we are just talking about this forum i would say that people from the western are just as equally involved and invested in politics however i would like to note that it seems like they do not really care much about politics in other countries as opposed to other countries like the ones you mentioned and more they seem to hold more knowledge and interest about politics in general whether it is within their own nation or not

But if we are talking about western people in general i can say that most of the youngsters are much involved in politics not only within their country but also in others

I live in Russia (please note that I support Ukraine). I consider myself as a nerd, prefer talking about science and philosophy on science forums. And I found that the Western science forums are less interesting for me, because they ban for philosophy, politics and new theories (speculation). I was also unable to find interesting English-speaking political forums; and I have also heard that on Reddit it is known that people there who write in English are often not from Europe/USA, but from India or China.
Do you agree with that? Did you notice on this forum, that most nerds here are not from the Western world but from Russia, India and so on? I mean, that people from Russia can show interest to cryptocurrencies just for this interest, while the Western people must have monetary motivation in this to support the cryptocurrencies discussions.
This is very sad if this is true, and I think that the reason is the fact that the Western democracies are mostly not democracies indeed; the ruling elites make the people stupid and apolitical, because overwise the people can think about a revolt.