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Topic: Are there any smartphones out there that are hard wallets too? (Read 632 times)

legendary
Activity: 2170
Merit: 1789
But not all smartphones have a built in cold storage wallet so it can be said to be secure. Most can also have vulnerabilities that hackers can get into to get crypto.
If I remember correctly some companies already tried to build a dedicated secure chip for their CPU, like Qualcomm SPU unit. They can market those features and build a dedicated phone for crypto (some already exist I believe) if they wanted to. But it still doesn't solve the problem that a phone is a phone. Personally, I wouldn't use a phone as a hardware wallet even if they claim it is unhackable due to a secure chip, etc.

Changing their mind after the update is just like saying;
Most people definitely lost their trust in Ledger, especially after the latest Atomic Wallet exploit. Who knows, maybe the same thing can happen when Ledger makes their firmware can expose the user's seeds in one way or another. Unless they make everything open source and allow people to verify/develop their own app without relying on Ledger, I wouldn't use or recommend them to others.
legendary
Activity: 2212
Merit: 7064
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Based on what I had found is that the trezor model is a type of hardware wallet that can be connected to any smartphone via usb, which allows you to transfer cryptocurrency even offline. Apart from this, the Samsung is also possible, because it has features called knox vault.
Trezor only works with Android devices an not with with iPhones, and that is huge market share of smartphone.
I wouldn't agree that Samsung phones are safu just because they have knox vault, because it is bundled with bunch of crap and it's closed source device both hardware and software.
Optional alternative is Pixel phone that can run open source GrapheneOS, they also have secure storage and they used some of Samsung chips.
Problem with many smartphones is also short support, so they can soon become unusable unlike dedicated hardware wallets or even older laptop computers that run Linux OS.

sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 252
My post made philipma1957 wear signature

Everyone is withdrawing from Ledger hardware, for the security of their assets. If you have predicted it, then it has become real.
Just wait for its destruction or cancel the update.
Not sure if it's going to be enough if they come out and say we changed our mind and we have abandoned the idea of Ledger Recover. They have dealt a much bigger blow to the whole industry by revealing that private key sharing is and has always been possible. They made their plans public this time, what if they or someone else doesn't in the future? What if they can retrieve your seed even if you don't give your consent, or they make some changes where they don't even need to ask you?

Changing their mind after the update is just like saying;
We are so sorry for letting you know about our decision.
We are withdrawing our decision.
Next time we will implement it without your knowledge.
sr. member
Activity: 1288
Merit: 268
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Based on what I had found is that the trezor model is a type of hardware wallet that can be connected to any smartphone via usb, which allows you to transfer cryptocurrency even offline. Apart from this, the Samsung is also possible, because it has features called knox vault.

But not all smartphones have a built in cold storage wallet so it can be said to be secure. Most can also have vulnerabilities that hackers can get into to get crypto.
legendary
Activity: 2730
Merit: 7065
Farewell, Leo. You will be missed!

Everyone is withdrawing from Ledger hardware, for the security of their assets. If you have predicted it, then it has become real.
Just wait for its destruction or cancel the update.
Not sure if it's going to be enough if they come out and say we changed our mind and we have abandoned the idea of Ledger Recover. They have dealt a much bigger blow to the whole industry by revealing that private key sharing is and has always been possible. They made their plans public this time, what if they or someone else doesn't in the future? What if they can retrieve your seed even if you don't give your consent, or they make some changes where they don't even need to ask you?
legendary
Activity: 2464
Merit: 1703
Blackjack.fun
Dude I don't know what are you talking about and where you live, but I can find used Pixel 5 and 5a much cheaper, even Pixel 6a in good condition is below $300
Please check prices worldwide before you make some claims like this, and prices can be even cheaper for people who live in United States.
Models with A letter are smaller, made from plastic and have weaker camera but they are still good enough for GrapheneOS degoogled phone.
I live in Indonesia man, Google Pixel prices are still expensive. The cheapest Pixel 5 is around the price of $200 - $300 and it depends on the condition and completeness of the device. and maybe it can be lower if without any accessories.
In the United States, it will certainly be cheaper especially used prices, will be much cheaper.

It takes few minutes to install everything, but you need to have minimal knowledge with system installation on other devices.
I often install several OS for Android, Custom ROM, etc.
But I have never flashed an OS that is related to crypto wallets or an OS that is more concerned with security.

I don't want to rent a lot against ledger, I think I proved that I was correct when I criticized them in last few years, beacuse I had a feeling things are going in this direction  Tongue
Now that it has become a custody wallet, what to expect? People are starting to abandon it.
Everyone is withdrawing from Ledger hardware, for the security of their assets. If you have predicted it, then it has become real.
Just wait for its destruction or cancel the update.
legendary
Activity: 2212
Merit: 7064
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Pixel 5 used price is still around $300
Dude I don't know what are you talking about and where you live, but I can find used Pixel 5 and 5a much cheaper, even Pixel 6a in good condition is below $300
Please check prices worldwide before you make some claims like this, and prices can be even cheaper for people who live in United States.
Models with A letter are smaller, made from plastic and have weaker camera but they are still good enough for GrapheneOS degoogled phone.

Never installed Graphene OS or LineageOS, CalyxOS, Divest, etc. Maybe later I can install one of them.
It takes few minutes to install everything, but you need to have minimal knowledge with system installation on other devices.

Rather than having to use a hardware wallet like LEDGER, I'd rather choose my own smartphone to be a custom hardware wallet that I can fully control LOL.
I don't want to rent a lot against ledger, I think I proved that I was correct when I criticized them in last few years, beacuse I had a feeling things are going in this direction  Tongue
legendary
Activity: 2464
Merit: 1703
Blackjack.fun
Yes, but you can buy older Pixel devices that are still updated on regular basis, something like Pixel 5 is fairly cheap and affordable for most people.
There are other alternatives for Graphene OS that work with other Android devices but they are inferior compared to GOS and updates are not so frequent.
LineageOS, CalyxOS, Divest, etc are all fine and open source, but support for other Android devices is not great, and they often get broken with new updates.

Pixel 5 used price is still around $300 and still quite expensive, but if it's only google pixel that can be installed graphene OS perfectly, it's quite worth-it (also depends on user needs).

Never installed Graphene OS or LineageOS, CalyxOS, Divest, etc. Maybe later I can install one of them.
A hardware wallet embedded in the smartphone is also not a bad idea, it can be an alternative without using a separate hardware wallet.

Rather than having to use a hardware wallet like LEDGER, I'd rather choose my own smartphone to be a custom hardware wallet that I can fully control LOL.
legendary
Activity: 2730
Merit: 7065
Farewell, Leo. You will be missed!
If OP is still interested, they can take a look at what the AirGap wallet is doing with its most recent service called AirGap Knox.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/airgap-wallet-self-custody-made-simple-and-secure-protect-your-crypto-offline-5342004

I am not advertising the service or anything, just mentioning it here because I heard about it recently. AirGap Knox is a device manager you install on your phone that blocks connectivity on the OS level and thus keeps your phone offline. However, it's a paid service and closed-source.
hero member
Activity: 2954
Merit: 725
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Ledger Nano X has its mobile app through its Ledger live app and it supports iOs and android OS. Well, they're in the hot seat now thanks to their new added feature which is the ledger recover and it's good for everyone to know about it and there's a continuous discussion all about it.
Thread: Ledger Recovery - Send your (encrypted) recovery phrase to 3rd parties entities
While this has just given me the idea of what OP is looking about. I've personally thought of this actual smartphones are hardwallets by simply downloading a wallet like Electrum mobile and keeping that phone offline, the same goes for those laptops that are used as an actual wallet for those that can't afford to buy a hardware wallet or chooses to use that with their spare laptop and keep it disconnected from the web as if it's an actual huge hardware as their wallets.
hero member
Activity: 840
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Overall, smartphone as a hard wallet is a bad idea and I really hope that companies and people don't support it. At the moment, one rarely thinks that someone has a hardware wallet in his smarrphone but imagine, if it becomes popular, a phone theft rate will dramatically increase because bitcoins are like: once gone, gone forever and if we keep in mind the low security of smartphones (doesn't matter which method you use, especially on androids), then the answer is clear.

Do you mean that inside your phone there is a "cold storage build-in wallet" or just a wallet that connects to hardware wallets?
I think Galaxy S10 can do that and I read somewhere that they have a phone that works as a full node, syncs, and you can run it as cold storage but I don't remember the exact name.
That was HTC.

Do you mean that inside your phone there is a "cold storage build-in wallet" or just a wallet that connects to hardware wallets?
I think Galaxy S10 can do that and I read somewhere that they have a phone that works as a full node, syncs, and you can run it as cold storage but I don't remember the exact name.
You are probably talking about the Samsung Blockchain Wallet, although I have never heard talks about it being a full node.
It's not a full node. Just a simple wallet. It also comes with Samsung Blockchain Keystore.
legendary
Activity: 2212
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Graphene OS looks good, I just found out about it.
But it officially only supports Google Pixel and the latest one already supports Google Pixel 7 Series.
Yes, but you can buy older Pixel devices that are still updated on regular basis, something like Pixel 5 is fairly cheap and affordable for most people.
There are other alternatives for Graphene OS that work with other Android devices but they are inferior compared to GOS and updates are not so frequent.
LineageOS, CalyxOS, Divest, etc are all fine and open source, but support for other Android devices is not great, and they often get broken with new updates.


legendary
Activity: 2464
Merit: 1703
Blackjack.fun
As far as I know it is possible to add hardware to an iphone if it is separate from the iphone itself, that can still interact with it from the inside to sign a transaction to keep the bitcoin on the iphone Which is called a hardware wallet.
You may have misunderstood the OP's intention. He wants a hardware Wallet that is directly embedded in the smartphone and becomes one like the Solana Saga Smartphone, not a separate wallet or Hardware wallet in general.

      You probably know that a hardware wallet is a device that stores bitcoins offline, which you can connect to your phone via usb or and once you do it, you can sign transactions without showing your private key.
A Bitcoin wallet stored offline would indeed be better and more secure than a Wallet that is constantly online on a smartphone.

The optimal and recommended use of crypto wallets is hardware wallets.
Without internet or other wireless connections WIFI, Bluetooth.
sr. member
Activity: 1288
Merit: 268
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As far as I know it is possible to add hardware to an iphone if it is separate from the iphone itself, that can still interact with it from the inside to sign a transaction to keep the bitcoin on the iphone Which is called a hardware wallet.

      You probably know that a hardware wallet is a device that stores bitcoins offline, which you can connect to your phone via usb or and once you do it, you can sign transactions without showing your private key.
legendary
Activity: 2464
Merit: 1703
Blackjack.fun
-snip-
Best alternative device I know is opensource Graphene OS that works with any Google Pixel phones, and everyone can install it and verify very fast.

Graphene OS looks good, I just found out about it.
But it officially only supports Google Pixel and the latest one already supports Google Pixel 7 Series.

It is indeed open source and anyone can develop it.
Looking at this Graphene OS forum and searching about implementation on other devices such as Xiaomi, Samsung etc.
Requires substantial Kernel development knowledge, AOSP development skills, resources, as well as considerable time to start porting on the desired device.
https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/2482-can-grapheneos-be-built-for-other-devices-such-as-xiaomi/2

I used to do ROM porting for Android devices, but for Graphene OS it looks more complex and not easy to port.
This is also related to the security system in it.

Which devices will be supported in the future?

https://grapheneos.org/faq#future-devices

Besides Graphene OS, there are 2 more OS, LineageOS and CalyxOS.
have their own advantages and features.
sr. member
Activity: 1078
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We already know that we can use a phone as a hardware wallet if it's air-gapped and never connected to any network. It's essentially the same thing as a hardware wallet, but it's a cheaper/free option if you can't afford to buy a hardware wallet. For example, you could set up an offline Electrum wallet on an old Android phone and keep it safe and air-gapped.

Yes that is very true and I am myself a user and fan of hardware wallets. However I still fully belive that bitcoin is also secure in its original state that does not requiere a hardware wallet at all. I know people that own less than 50 USD worth of bitcoin and they will be for shure better of with and old phone as a "hardware" wallet than to not use any precaution at all.
In general I always tell people to use a hardware wallet of course, if the investment is big enough to justify it.
Bitcoin is highly secure in its original state, as you mentioned, but the problem can arise from a person's behavior and the way they use their wallet. Security is no joke when it comes to your money and assets, so everyone should be careful and take all the necessary security measures to keep their Bitcoin wallet safe.
hero member
Activity: 938
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Magic

Sure, but when BTC was also created there was no SegWit or Taproot address, there was also no Layer two solution like the Lightning network.

Yes that is very true and I am myself a user and fan of hardware wallets. However I still fully belive that bitcoin is also secure in its original state that does not requiere a hardware wallet at all. I know people that own less than 50 USD worth of bitcoin and they will be for shure better of with and old phone as a "hardware" wallet than to not use any precaution at all.
In general I always tell people to use a hardware wallet of course, if the investment is big enough to justify it.
legendary
Activity: 2212
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Have you heard SikurPhone?  It runs on a modified version of the Android operating system which you can use as an air-gapped wallet.
I think that SikurPhone is outdated closed source junk and I would never used it as an airgapped device.
This phones reminds me a lot on those FBI made  ANOM phones that criminals used for ''safu'' fake encrypted communication.
Best alternative device I know is opensource Graphene OS that works with any Google Pixel phones, and everyone can install it and verify very fast.
hero member
Activity: 826
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Only BTC
Remember that bitcoin was designed without hardware wallets in mind and has worked flawlessly for many years before hardware wallets.
Sure, but when BTC was also created there was no SegWit or Taproot address, there was also no Layer two solution like the Lightning network. The BTC network could not have remained exactly the way it was when it was created, that is why there are so many improvement proposals and recommendations for better security. There are also maintainers and developers who ensure that the network is running smoothly, and anyone can also check for bugs and report them, it is a community thingy for best security and compatibility possible.

However, Electrum on an online device is enough if the money you want to store is small and for spending often. When BTC was created it was not really worth stealing, that is why hardware wallets and better security recommendations were introduced when BTC's value began to increase.
legendary
Activity: 2366
Merit: 1206
. Your air-gapped device should never be connected to the internet, the risk of losing your funds when you connect it to the internet is surely always there.

Well yes obviously this is the correct answer if you want to know what would be the textbook solution to this question. If you however store such low amounts of bitcoin that it is not an option to buy a hardware wallet then this is still a good working solution. Remember that bitcoin was designed without hardware wallets in mind and has worked flawlessly for many years before hardware wallets.
I tend to agree, air-gapped and hardware weren't there before and AFAIK, the first Bitcoin wallet was the Bitcoin core which was released in 2009 and then a hardware wallet came up in the year 2014 and that was a Trezor one.

For me, as long as it is a non-custodial wallet and I have full control of the private key considering I'm safe especially if that is only a small amount.  An electrum wallet would be fine.

However, to answer OP's question.
Have you heard SikurPhone?  It runs on a modified version of the Android operating system which you can use as an air-gapped wallet.
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