Are web3 casinos actually decentralized?

stompix

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Quote from: _act_ on December 16, 2024, 01:23:45 AM

Quote from: stompix on December 16, 2024, 01:15:40 AM

Can you still play on it and bet on it if the .com domain is seized?
If the answer is yes, then it's a true Web 3.0 casino, if it's no then is just a centralized normal web2 site like the others.

Web3 was proposed in a way that it will be decentralized but actually web3 is not decentralized but centralized in this modern world. Only advantage I saw about web3 is that you can connect your wallet and make transaction with other parties. Or are those web3 not centralized? They are all centralized has been what I noticed about them. Tor which is decentralized has been existing before web3.

Web 3 is decentralization, by definition!
The fact that some claim they have a web3 product and it turns out it's not a decentralized one, it doesn't mean the definition has changed, it just means they are liars trying to create fomo on a buzzword.

The fact that it can't be achieved in the current format by most of our websites it's pretty normal, decentralization has limits, and torrents work perfectly without a main site, but you still need a central point where those are distributed, tor works like this because it's a simple tool that doesn't need anything else just pass information from one point to another, with casinos you will need people to add games, people to maintain odds, people to be in charge of payment wallets, each one is a point of centralization and that is not doable right now.

_act_

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Quote from: stompix on December 16, 2024, 01:15:40 AM

Can you still play on it and bet on it if the .com domain is seized?
If the answer is yes, then it's a true Web 3.0 casino, if it's no then is just a centralized normal web2 site like the others.

Web3 was proposed in a way that it will be decentralized but actually web3 is not decentralized but centralized in this modern world. Only advantage I saw about web3 is that you can connect your wallet and make transaction with other parties. Or are those web3 not centralized? They are all centralized has been what I noticed about them. Tor which is decentralized has been existing before web3.

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Quote from: Ziskinberg on December 07, 2024, 11:19:39 AM

I think when people ask whether a casino is decentralized or not, they’re usually referring to the KYC aspect. For decentralized casinos, it typically means no KYC. however, in the case of Web3 casinos, some are still regulated and hold licenses, so they aren’t truly decentralized.

So by this logic back when Binance offered no KYC trading, did that make Binance a decentralised exchange?
I can open an account on Twitter with no KYC, I can open an account on FB without one, are those decentralized platforms?

Quote from: _act_ on December 05, 2024, 12:22:38 PM

What I like about Metawin is that it is both web3 and web2 as you can connect to your noncustodial wallet, you can also pay with fiat or crypto just like web2.

Can you still play on it and bet on it if the .com domain is seized?
If the answer is yes, then it's a true Web 3.0 casino, if it's no then is just a centralized normal web2 site like the others.

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Quote from: retreat on December 16, 2024, 12:56:26 AM

So from this explanation, we can conclude that web3 casino is nothing more than a general online casino that runs on a centralized system. However, I don't really care if the platform is centrally run or not, what matters to me is how reputable, regulated, and honest the online casino is with their services to their users - unlike those casino platforms that say they are decentralized when in reality they are not.

Reputation, regulation, honesty and also liquidity. You cannot keep liquidity out of the equation when comes to trusting a gaming platform with your deposits. Since liquidity often depends on the volume of money wagered by the whole number of gamblers in the platform itself, it makes sense those casinos with have the most number of gamblers are the more likely not to have any problems to pay those who end up being winners, just another reason to stay with big casinos and those (as it stands for now) are centralized.

Decentralized casinos with enough liquidity could appear in the future, though I am afraid regulators will try to kill them before they fully develop to their maximum potential.

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So from this explanation, we can conclude that web3 casino is nothing more than a general online casino that runs on a centralized system. However, I don't really care if the platform is centrally run or not, what matters to me is how reputable, regulated, and honest the online casino is with their services to their users - unlike those casino platforms that say they are decentralized when in reality they are not.

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Quote from: goldkingcoiner on December 15, 2024, 02:21:15 PM

There are no truly decentralized casinos yet.

There are casinos that call themselves Web3, decentralized, etc.... But that alone is plain marketing. If the casino has the option to reverse transactions, freeze funds or any other method of seizing control over the payment system then it is centralized.

I think making a casino decentralized may be harder than we believe.

It may be fully possible to achieve a fully decentralized web 3 casino in the future, its just a matter of time. Once that is in place then you have the spirit of bitcoin itself eh? something fully decentralized from a central authority is very appealing. I think in that sort of betting predicament it can't be all that much fun compared to real gambling in an actual casino.

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Quote from: Crypt0Gore on December 04, 2024, 10:54:56 AM

Meaning that there is no difference, the decentralisation idea is meaningless, since once you click start the casino is in control, for me I believe that decentralisation is still far from online casinos, none is close yet, maybe someday this will be possible.

And honestly, I don't care because I don't even need web3 on casinos, I am good with what casinos are offering right now.

I don't have much to say on this other than there is no truly decentralized web3 casino. They may have some features that make them look decentralized but essentially the overall platform still relies on centralized control and infrastructure. Some of the centralized features that I am referring to are centrally managed user accounts, KYC checks, and customer complaints being managed centrally.

We are still far from achieving fully and completely decentralized web3 casinos. It will happen once the technical challenges which are associated with decentralization are surmounted.

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Quote from: Fortify on December 15, 2024, 01:48:28 PM

It's just a buzz word really and what does decentralized even mean in this context, because you could call the latest cloud computing hosting providers to be "decentralized" in the sense that they are spread out across many synced servers to offer redundancy. Maybe it will happen in future, but all of these casinos have to be hosted somewhere, even if it is an entirely different blockchain - that might be vulnerable to different kinds of attacks by governments who may wish to crack down on financial laws they feel are being broken. Have you actually got any examples of casinos that claim to be web3, or is it all just theory and hyperbole at the moment, because nobody has yet confirmed they work?

I agree 100%. It is a buzz word that's being used for so long to make people believe that they are no under any regulations that are being done by the government but sooner or later, you will figure it out that they are under or being controlled by a regulation in the government where they are headquartered. I am yet to see an actual decentralized casino that's fully run by a community and not having any central power or authority that manages it. I think it's hard to find something like that which is driven by its people that believes on its business and have some incentives for the people that manages it. That's why people are also wise that they are not fond to these types of casinos because they understand what business really is and how it goes in the gambling industry.

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Quote from: Ziskinberg on December 07, 2024, 11:19:39 AM

Quote from: Wexnident on December 06, 2024, 06:36:03 PM

Aren't most casinos still considered web2 anyway? I mean afaik, there's no casino out there that is registered that'd just let me play with a wallet and nothing else. I at least consider that as what they mean with the web3 casino thing. Most platforms still have the concept of "Depositing" and I'm pretty sure that already negates the definition of web3 in their platforms.

And web3 in general means decentralized, meaning no central control entity whatnot and no personal information needed/required. Pretty sure most casinos have KYC and that again, also negates the idea that it's a web3 casino as well.

I think when people ask whether a casino is decentralized or not, they’re usually referring to the KYC aspect. For decentralized casinos, it typically means no KYC. however, in the case of Web3 casinos, some are still regulated and hold licenses, so they aren’t truly decentralized.

The term "decentralized" shouldn’t be used as a blanket term. If we believe a Web3 casino is decentralized, it should apply to everything, including the games they offer. But can you really call sports betting decentralized? That’s a tough one to justify.

Hmm, your point is quite solid and we need to ask ourselves some good questions before we could ask these casinos owners what they actually mean by web3 because some just claim to be a web3 casinos without no better features to show that. Maybe they just want to follow the market trend and what to be on top of the games while constantly attracting more users to their brands. Many of the so called web3 casinos are legit but are never decentralized. Some will still ask for KYC from users claiming that it's a way to know if the source is actually from a reputable source or a way to avoid money laundry.

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After provable fairness for me not everything needs to be decentralized anymore. Being non custodian comes at an expense of speed, versatility and cost.

So I'd really much rather we be aware of these advantages of whatever platform is centralized before bringing up the advantages of decentralization for gambling. Gambling is mostly just for fun so these advantages don't hold much weight here.

Unless any web3 platform can bring an equivalent experience it's not that worthy of discussion for me as these platform are not really as convenient to use as normal ones. Let alone the fact that randomness on chain is a very tricky topic.

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Quote from: _act_ on December 04, 2024, 10:42:59 AM

If it was before, I think that web3 casinos can offer non KYC service than web2 casinos. But when I am reading some people's post, they talked that web3 casinos are decentralized in a way that the gamblers will be in control of their coins using a noncustodial wallet. But according to how I know about web3 gambling sites, they operate in a way that once the gamblers connect their wallet and make payment, the gambling site is in control of the money. Which means no gambling site to be decentralized as the gambling site and the money is controlled by the gambling site owners and not any other parties involved that can make them decentralized. Am I wrong? J think many of us do not know what decentralization is.

You are not wrong mate.
Already many people's describe that just only for the usage of of the Blockchain or a decentralized wallet that doesn't mean that platform is a decentralized platform. Here I want to give an example something like the bitcoin stake on the decentralized platform I want to meant that even if platform announce that they are decentralized platform if you stake your fund that mean you have already gave the funds to that platform so in my opinion that doesn't give the decentralized system like some semi decentralized platform says that they were fully decentralized but the main smart keys on their hand to control over all the wallet funds on that casino.

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There are no truly decentralized casinos yet.

There are casinos that call themselves Web3, decentralized, etc.... But that alone is plain marketing. If the casino has the option to reverse transactions, freeze funds or any other method of seizing control over the payment system then it is centralized.

I think making a casino decentralized may be harder than we believe.

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Quote from: _act_ on December 04, 2024, 10:42:59 AM

If it was before, I think that web3 casinos can offer non KYC service than web2 casinos. But when I am reading some people's post, they talked that web3 casinos are decentralized in a way that the gamblers will be in control of their coins using a noncustodial wallet. But according to how I know about web3 gambling sites, they operate in a way that once the gamblers connect their wallet and make payment, the gambling site is in control of the money. Which means no gambling site to be decentralized as the gambling site and the money is controlled by the gambling site owners and not any other parties involved that can make them decentralized. Am I wrong? J think many of us do not know what decentralization is.

I think there are many gambling platforms who offers a web3 app that's said to be decentralized but they're just using that concept to attract more players who like that kind of idea. But it's kinda annoying that there are some "decentralized" web3 gambling platforms but doesn't act as decentralized because you still need KYC for withdrawing funds and such. That's why you really need to know the difference between a traditional online platform and a modern gambling platform that acts with this new technology.

We all know that the true decentralization works with us having easy transactions through blockchains, in and out, no one can control and hold those transactions.

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Quote from: _act_ on December 04, 2024, 10:42:59 AM

If it was before, I think that web3 casinos can offer non KYC service than web2 casinos. But when I am reading some people's post, they talked that web3 casinos are decentralized in a way that the gamblers will be in control of their coins using a noncustodial wallet. But according to how I know about web3 gambling sites, they operate in a way that once the gamblers connect their wallet and make payment, the gambling site is in control of the money. Which means no gambling site to be decentralized as the gambling site and the money is controlled by the gambling site owners and not any other parties involved that can make them decentralized. Am I wrong? J think many of us do not know what decentralization is.

It's just a buzz word really and what does decentralized even mean in this context, because you could call the latest cloud computing hosting providers to be "decentralized" in the sense that they are spread out across many synced servers to offer redundancy. Maybe it will happen in future, but all of these casinos have to be hosted somewhere, even if it is an entirely different blockchain - that might be vulnerable to different kinds of attacks by governments who may wish to crack down on financial laws they feel are being broken. Have you actually got any examples of casinos that claim to be web3, or is it all just theory and hyperbole at the moment, because nobody has yet confirmed they work?

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Some are fake indeed because even if you can play there without registering a real account with a login and a password but just by connecting a wallet through Metmask or WalletConnect they require people to make deposits to another wallet, a non-custodial wallet actually. So they can lock your balance whenever they want in reality. While Web3 really decentralized casinos, let you play directly with your connected wallet, so only stakes currently bet could eventually be locked or stolen(scammed) theoretically. But they never do that in practice because losing its reputation for a small stake would be ridiculous. In addition bankroll of those casinos if often shared between users, so the "house" doesn't belong to a central entity.

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Quote from: Wexnident on December 06, 2024, 06:36:03 PM

Aren't most casinos still considered web2 anyway? I mean afaik, there's no casino out there that is registered that'd just let me play with a wallet and nothing else. I at least consider that as what they mean with the web3 casino thing. Most platforms still have the concept of "Depositing" and I'm pretty sure that already negates the definition of web3 in their platforms.

And web3 in general means decentralized, meaning no central control entity whatnot and no personal information needed/required. Pretty sure most casinos have KYC and that again, also negates the idea that it's a web3 casino as well.

I think when people ask whether a casino is decentralized or not, they’re usually referring to the KYC aspect. For decentralized casinos, it typically means no KYC. however, in the case of Web3 casinos, some are still regulated and hold licenses, so they aren’t truly decentralized.

The term "decentralized" shouldn’t be used as a blanket term. If we believe a Web3 casino is decentralized, it should apply to everything, including the games they offer. But can you really call sports betting decentralized? That’s a tough one to justify.

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Quote from: coin-investor on December 05, 2024, 06:38:58 AM

We all love decentralization, but if we look at the gambling industry, there's not one stable or popular web3 casino; there are some, but they cater to one community of chains like the Tron or Solana community. Centralized casinos are preferable because they are flexible and compliant; they serve the needs of the players through their support.
Not all web3 have support; you are left on your own if issues arise.

Firstly, I'll state that I'm also perfectly fine running on the available options such as Rollbit or Roobet and many others that have a decent reputation, even though they're not decentralized. I'm not familiar with web3 and the decentralized casinos, but since there are currently a few platforms out there, such as Metawin, isn't it safe to assume that there may be more to come in the future?

Perhaps the need of fully decentralized casinos doesn't have enough audience yet, or isn't viable to exist under these conditions, as I'm seeing that even though Metawin appears to be decentralized, you can connect your Metamask or any other wallet directly and have full access to your funds, it still requires KYC.

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Quote from: _act_ on December 04, 2024, 10:42:59 AM

~

To pretend to be decentralized is not same as to be from this class of stuff. I don't know any casino ^{declaring themselves as Web3 ones} that may be classified as decentralized casino. Should they be decentralized thay would based on p2p framework assured by dedicated software rather than client-server architecture. ^{I always like to instance bisq as a good example of real decentralized system.}

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Aren't most casinos still considered web2 anyway? I mean afaik, there's no casino out there that is registered that'd just let me play with a wallet and nothing else. I at least consider that as what they mean with the web3 casino thing. Most platforms still have the concept of "Depositing" and I'm pretty sure that already negates the definition of web3 in their platforms.

And web3 in general means decentralized, meaning no central control entity whatnot and no personal information needed/required. Pretty sure most casinos have KYC and that again, also negates the idea that it's a web3 casino as well.

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Quote from: JunaidAzizi on December 05, 2024, 12:56:52 PM

Decentralization simply means no rule of central authority. In Web 2, centralization was prevalent, and players had to go through the KYC process. However, then Web 3 was launched, which aimed to focus more on decentralization and being KYC-free. But in today's time, most Web 3 casinos require KYC because of legal pressure. Here the question arises, how much are Web 3 casinos compromised regarding KYC, or is it just a formality due to pressure from higher authorities on casinos?

We need to discuss this openly because it relates to our privacy and our control over our funds. Web 3 was launched to give players control over their funds, but if they need KYC, then our fund will be on control of the casino and decentralization will be comprised.

The use of web 3 is not only focused on kyc only, there are other thigs which they also serve as we may not be seeing their projections more often to how we do with the request on the use of kyc by them, if we are going to consider kyc mainly in this, then we should know that we are going to deal with those kind of casinos that does not support or require the use of kyc, they actually exist and just that they are not being common as the ones that demands for kyc.

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Quote from: _act_ on December 05, 2024, 12:22:38 PM

What I like about Metawin is that it is both web3 and web2 as you can connect to your noncustodial wallet, you can also pay with fiat or crypto just like web2. They offer no KYC up to a large withdrawal limit.

It's good to hear that Metawin offers both of those options, but as far as it allows web2 operations then we can't call it web3 based casino. It also comes in list of the casinos that are based on web2, however, it's good to hear that one can connect his/her own wallet for betting.

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Decentralization simply means no rule of central authority. In Web 2, centralization was prevalent, and players had to go through the KYC process. However, then Web 3 was launched, which aimed to focus more on decentralization and being KYC-free. But in today's time, most Web 3 casinos require KYC because of legal pressure. Here the question arises, how much are Web 3 casinos compromised regarding KYC, or is it just a formality due to pressure from higher authorities on casinos?

We need to discuss this openly because it relates to our privacy and our control over our funds. Web 3 was launched to give players control over their funds, but if they need KYC, then our fund will be on control of the casino and decentralization will be comprised.

_act_

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Quote from: SamReomo on December 05, 2024, 11:41:33 AM

I don't think that web3 casinos are decentralized and that term is only used to attract players and nothing else. I personally haven't used any such web3 casino because for me web2 casinos work like a charm and I don't even think about moving to web3 when it comes to gambling.

It is true that web2 works like a charm. I have used many web2 gambling sites before and they are all good. I mean the ones that I registered on that have announcement thread on this forum. But you can also try Metawin. What I like about Metawin is that it is both web3 and web2 as you can connect to your noncustodial wallet, you can also pay with fiat or crypto just like web2. They offer no KYC up to a large withdrawal limit.

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Quote from: _act_ on December 04, 2024, 10:42:59 AM

Am I wrong? J think many of us do not know what decentralization is.

Can casino actually be decentralized? Web 3 or not, they will have a way to control their users funds when need be. What I understand about these casino is that even if they make it decentralized, it actually won't be fully decentralized in a way. Like you said, you connect your wallet to these web3 casino and immediately they have access to your funds. That's no longer a decentralized system as they can now acts as a central authority over your funds. Even if they offer the non kyc services, I think decentralization part is different.

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I don't think that web3 casinos are decentralized and that term is only used to attract players and nothing else. I personally haven't used any such web3 casino because for me web2 casinos work like a charm and I don't even think about moving to web3 when it comes to gambling.

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Lets clear this confusion with few simple facts. The question is if web3 are actually decentralized?

so let's talk about what is decentralized first, if I'm not mistaken, the understanding of all about decentralized is that they are not controlled by the government, right? Meaning, no KYC... So we have a good example of a web3 casino and that is Metawin which I believe is very popular in the forum.

Is Metawin regulated? yes, because it has a license..

https://cryptogambling.com/casinos/metawin

Quote

Is MetaWin legit?
Yes, MetaWin is a legitimate Web3 casino operated by Asobi N.V. The site is licensed and regulated by the government of Curaçao (license OGL/2024/1695/0935) and it hosts fair, trusted games from companies like Pragmatic Play. MetaWin also has strong security features, and you can disconnect your wallet at any time.

So that concludes that web3 are not generally decentralized.

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We all love decentralization, but if we look at the gambling industry, there's not one stable or popular web3 casino; there are some, but they cater to one community of chains like the Tron or Solana community. Centralized casinos are preferable because they are flexible and compliant; they serve the needs of the players through their support.
Not all web3 have support; you are left on your own if issues arise.

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Hmm. Once you establish yourself in Web3, it's not fully controlled by one person or entity. It's more likely that it's shared among people. Maybe it's better if it's a DAO, right? A genuinely decentralized one could be good for maintaining control over the funds and not being controlled by a central authority.

If it were to be done, it might be somewhat balanced. Some parts are better off being centralized or managed by a single entity, and others are better off being decentralized.

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Quote from: _act_ on December 04, 2024, 10:42:59 AM

If it was before, I think that web3 casinos can offer non KYC service than web2 casinos. But when I am reading some people's post, they talked that web3 casinos are decentralized in a way that the gamblers will be in control of their coins using a noncustodial wallet. But according to how I know about web3 gambling sites, they operate in a way that once the gamblers connect their wallet and make payment, the gambling site is in control of the money. Which means no gambling site to be decentralized as the gambling site and the money is controlled by the gambling site owners and not any other parties involved that can make them decentralized. Am I wrong? J think many of us do not know what decentralization is.

Most web3 casino are just part partly web3 since most of their games is not on chain while you still need to deposit money from your non custodial wallet to your casino balance in able to play.

So technically they are not fully decentralized since you can’t play without transferring balance to your casino balance. Web3 just offer the convenience of automatically create an account using a wallet address and transfer quickly without the need to manually transfer using your wallet app.

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Quote from: dappcasino on December 05, 2024, 02:47:15 AM

When we started dappcasino.io, we only listed real decentralized casinos "gambling dApps." These allowed players to send money directly from their wallet, and if they won, the money went straight back to their wallet. But most of these casinos had big problems. They were slow, full of bugs, and hard for people to use. They mainly worked on the EOS network, but sadly, none of them exist anymore.

Today, many crypto casinos say they are decentralized, but as others have pointed out, this isn’t true. Once you connect your wallet to the site, you lose some control.

There is potential for decentralized casinos, but the risks are high. Right now, the talk about decentralization is just marketing.

You are right, you pointed out everything well, every talks about decentralized casinos today is nothing but marketing indeed.
Personally, I've always known what a decentralization really means, so, I had a clear understanding of what a casino that claim to be decentralized should look and operate like, and this is the reason why when I first played on owl.com,: one of the self acclaimed decentralized casino, I knew the casino wasn't decentralized and got turned off, till today, I still have some left over balance on the site, of which if the casino was really decentralized, that balance should be in my wallet and not on the site waiting for me to possibly withdraw it.

The potential for decentralized casinos is high just as you have said, and I actually don't see any risk higher than normal, it's just that developers are not ready, possibly because they are yet to find good value in building a truly decentralized casino, or perhaps, maybe no one is ready to sacrifice their control, to build a truly decentralized casino.

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Quote from: _act_ on December 04, 2024, 10:42:59 AM

If it was before, I think that web3 casinos can offer non KYC service than web2 casinos. But when I am reading some people's post, they talked that web3 casinos are decentralized in a way that the gamblers will be in control of their coins using a noncustodial wallet. But according to how I know about web3 gambling sites, they operate in a way that once the gamblers connect their wallet and make payment, the gambling site is in control of the money. Which means no gambling site to be decentralized as the gambling site and the money is controlled by the gambling site owners and not any other parties involved that can make them decentralized. Am I wrong? J think many of us do not know what decentralization is.

You are not wrong frenn some online casino is offered two type of payment

1. Is like you said you need to deposit some money and you play after that if you win than you can withdraw your money back

2. But there is also a crypto casino that offered non KYC and they using smart contract to play the game usually is on EVM Chain with the cheap fee like Polygon but nowadays there are ton of evm layer 2 offered less fee or even gasless fee

and basically you need install metamask deposit some fund to play when you win their smart contract send you the money but when lose your money is gone hahah obiously haha

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A decentralized casino means that payments are made through a smart contract. And if the smart contract is written in such a way that the client's funds really cannot be controlled by a third party, then this is decentralization. It is also important what permissions you give to the smart contract when connecting the wallet. You need to read carefully before signing a transaction. If a smart contract does not contain vulnerabilities (often intentional), which must be confirmed by many independent auditors with records about it in their registries, then such a smart contract can be considered truly decentralized.

As for KYC, the authorities may require any platform to introduce this requirement. And even decentralized services will have to comply with this requirement. How exactly technically is the second question. But one way or another, non-compliance with the requirements can lead to consequences up to criminal prosecution, or at least marking all transactions of this service as "dirty money".

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When we started dappcasino.io, we only listed real decentralized casinos "gambling dApps." These allowed players to send money directly from their wallet, and if they won, the money went straight back to their wallet. But most of these casinos had big problems. They were slow, full of bugs, and hard for people to use. They mainly worked on the EOS network, but sadly, none of them exist anymore.

Today, many crypto casinos say they are decentralized, but as others have pointed out, this isn’t true. Once you connect your wallet to the site, you lose some control.

There is potential for decentralized casinos, but the risks are high. Right now, the talk about decentralization is just marketing.

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Quote from: _act_ on December 04, 2024, 10:42:59 AM

Am I wrong? J think many of us do not know what decentralization is.

You are right, bro, On some of what you believed in, web3 casino are striving to be a decentralized platform for gamblers because they are smart-based contracts and utilize a decentralized protocol, but it depends on the kind of chain and smart contracts they are using and the composition of the platform. For me to trust a web3 casino, it should be properly audited periodically.
From my experience, I prefer playing on a centralized platform because I have a worse experience investing my money on smart-based contract platforms because they can do a rugpull anytime, but its still up to the user's preference.

Churchillvv

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Every one is just saying the same thing here and I wouldn't say anything different. fact remains that decentralisation can not be seen a in a business owner by an individual or group under government control or regulation as they will in one way or the other still have your assets or money in their custody one way or the other.

Web3 is no different from every other casino it's just a matter of time that we will realise what they meant with the word decentralised.

terrific

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Are web3 casinos are still a thing? I don't think that there is such as a decentralized casinos. All are covered by regulation and no matter how advertised they are as a decentralized casino, it's not going to change the fact that one government instruction and regulation, they'll adhere to that. So, decentralization has become a buzz word on the crypto gambling community but then, everyone who has stayed here for quite a while now understands that there's really no decentralization if a casino thrives for so long and have been introduced as one.

Dr.Bitcoin_Strange

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In my own opinion, it's not actually the true definition of decentralization because while gambling there, you are not the only one in control of your wallet because the moment you connect your wallet to the site, you have grant them access to your asset and if it's a scam web3 casino, they can steal your funds. Like someone already mentioned, it's better to create a new wallet and use it to connect to the web3 casino.

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Quote from: Blowon on December 04, 2024, 12:23:48 PM

I think decentralization in gambling is just a fiction, those words are just used for marketing, but the fact is that web3 is not really decentralized, but I don't really care because I keep using a new wallet address if I want to connect my wallet

Using a new wallet each time you connect to a web3 casino only limits the money you can lose if anything goes wrong, but it does not save you from the risk that a non-decentralized casino offers.

If you are using a new wallet, you have to fund it and make sure you have enough money to use to gamble in that casino. Connecting that wallet to the casino exposes your phrase to them, depending on how the site is built.

ryzaadit

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In my opinion, the meaning of true decentralized service is that the transaction is not required to connect a wallet or account. Most the transaction is based on-chain transaction, have you ever heard of guess hash numbers? basically these gambling to gues the last number/word from the block mined. There has some certainly casino offering the gambling site required user to just guess > deposit your fund to destination address after filling (withdraw address) > If you win, then the prize is automatically sent to your address.

The problem for decentralized gambling/casino are to much transaction are being made + limited game we can play. Mostly just (Dice On-Chain, Guess Hash or mostly Jackpot Pools). That's why, these scheme never success.

justdimin

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Quote from: _act_ on December 04, 2024, 10:42:59 AM

If it was before, I think that web3 casinos can offer non KYC service than web2 casinos. But when I am reading some people's post, they talked that web3 casinos are decentralized in a way that the gamblers will be in control of their coins using a noncustodial wallet. But according to how I know about web3 gambling sites, they operate in a way that once the gamblers connect their wallet and make payment, the gambling site is in control of the money. Which means no gambling site to be decentralized as the gambling site and the money is controlled by the gambling site owners and not any other parties involved that can make them decentralized. Am I wrong? J think many of us do not know what decentralization is.

Even the Web2 casinos before are like that too (not requesting a KYC) but things have changed later unfortunately. But as of now, there are still Web2 casinos that doesn't require a KYC, or they have it but doesn't mandate it. It will only get triggered if some conditions are met.

As of now, I think Web3 casinos are still the same decentralized and I think it will never change anymore as that was their main concept. In a Web2 casino, we are still in control of our coins. It is our money and we only deposit it in the casino to be able to use their games. It is just that we might get blocked when withdrawing but that is if we did something shady, or even if not but the casino is only a scam. The info that you heard about Web3 might actually be from the Web2. Or there is a chance that they are only spreading fake info.

Aanuoluwatofunmi

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Quote from: _act_ on December 04, 2024, 10:42:59 AM

If it was before, I think that web3 casinos can offer non KYC service than web2 casinos. But when I am reading some people's post, they talked that web3 casinos are decentralized in a way that the gamblers will be in control of their coins using a noncustodial wallet. But according to how I know about web3 gambling sites, they operate in a way that once the gamblers connect their wallet and make payment, the gambling site is in control of the money. Which means no gambling site to be decentralized as the gambling site and the money is controlled by the gambling site owners and not any other parties involved that can make them decentralized. Am I wrong? J think many of us do not know what decentralization is.

I think there are a number of things that needed to be iron out from this, we have the way a web3 gambling casino can appear to be a kyc casino and some a no kyc casino, this does not end there, some of these platforms also have their own different policies which we may have to understand part of what they were being made up maybe by going through their ToS, because as a matter of fact, they can act for anonymity over the user, but they are not decentralized since they are not giving us the wallet keys they have created for us, as they are commonly refereed to a custodial category, why should they be addressed being decentralized when they have in their custody the private keys to their users asset, they have license they operate with and they mostly demand for kyc.

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Quote from: Antotena on December 04, 2024, 02:26:01 PM

There are real web3 casino that operate effectively and everything they do is what web3 looks like but I fear that such casino wouldn't last because of regulation, they will not get license and approval to operate if they don't do KYC and will likely get attack for money laundering by law enforcement. They are really good for some privacy and decentralized to some degree but the government wouldn't let you have peace of mind.

Let me give you examples of what are decentralized. Example is a decentralized file storage. Another is Tor. Another one is the bitcoin network. All these that I mentioned make use of no central server but making use of nodes. The nodes are what that makes them decentralized. It will be hard for the government to go take them down because they have many nodes from different countries across the world. Government will need to take down all the nodes.

Web3 gambling sites all have a central server which is run by the gambling sites themselves and that is the reason they can easily be susceptible to regulations and control. They are all not decentralized. Profit making can not let them be decentralized.

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There are no true decentralized casinos, period!

First, all of them exist behind a domain name and a server, which is the definition of centralized, then they have all those games, and they must have a gaming provider so that someone can sign a contract with them, again, one member with authority over the casino, and of course, after all this, how can a casino that call itself decentralized ask for KYC like some of those do?

All they do is promote themselves with these claims, in reality, there is nothing different between them and traditional casinos.

Quote from: Antotena on December 04, 2024, 02:26:01 PM

There are real web3 casino that operate effectively and everything they do is what web3 looks like

Name one!

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Quote from: _act_ on December 04, 2024, 10:42:59 AM

If it was before, I think that web3 casinos can offer non KYC service than web2 casinos. But when I am reading some people's post, they talked that web3 casinos are decentralized in a way that the gamblers will be in control of their coins using a noncustodial wallet. But according to how I know about web3 gambling sites, they operate in a way that once the gamblers connect their wallet and make payment, the gambling site is in control of the money. Which means no gambling site to be decentralized as the gambling site and the money is controlled by the gambling site owners and not any other parties involved that can make them decentralized. Am I wrong? J think many of us do not know what decentralization is.

I think we need to define what's web3 again because some casinos doesn't know what's even difference between web3 and web2. A real web3 casino wouldn't take funds completely out of your account, every data will be recorded on their end while your wallet execute every transactions which are also recorded on the blockchain you are using. Some wana he web3 wallets prefer you send funds from your wallet to their casino so you can do everything there while they control the money.

There are real web3 casino that operate effectively and everything they do is what web3 looks like but I fear that such casino wouldn't last because of regulation, they will not get license and approval to operate if they don't do KYC and will likely get attack for money laundering by law enforcement. They are really good for some privacy and decentralized to some degree but the government wouldn't let you have peace of mind.

_act_

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Quote from: Blowon on December 04, 2024, 12:23:48 PM

I think decentralization in gambling is just a fiction, those words are just used for marketing, but the fact is that web3 is not really decentralized, but I don't really care because I keep using a new wallet address if I want to connect my wallet

This is very important. I also make sure that I use a new wallet and send just little amount of money there, especially if the gambling site is new. It is not good to joke with your coins because as we connect the wallet, the wallet is prone to stealing of coins. But I have only heard people that connect to fake websites that complained of stolen of coins. Even I like the web3 casinos like Metawin that provide option of depositing the coin directly just as it is on those web2. This is the option I prefer to use.

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Quote from: Crypt0Gore on December 04, 2024, 10:54:56 AM

Meaning that there is no difference, the decentralisation idea is meaningless, since once you click start the casino is in control, for me I believe that decentralisation is still far from online casinos, none is close yet, maybe someday this will be possible.

And honestly, I don't care because I don't even need web3 on casinos, I am good with what casinos are offering right now.

This is exactly my stand on this because I don't care about decentralization on casinos and I see it as just a fancy way some casinos might want to appear different and gain a little advantage over others. The moment you sign up in a casino, they are in charge of everything including payment of winnings and bearing the loss. Your deposited money is in their custody as soon as it is released by the gambler so what role does decentralization play in this? I think earning a good reputation by the casino is more important than the supposed decentralization.

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Quote from: _act_ on December 04, 2024, 10:42:59 AM

If it was before, I think that web3 casinos can offer non KYC service than web2 casinos. But when I am reading some people's post, they talked that web3 casinos are decentralized in a way that the gamblers will be in control of their coins using a noncustodial wallet. But according to how I know about web3 gambling sites, they operate in a way that once the gamblers connect their wallet and make payment, the gambling site is in control of the money. Which means no gambling site to be decentralized as the gambling site and the money is controlled by the gambling site owners and not any other parties involved that can make them decentralized. Am I wrong? J think many of us do not know what decentralization is.

Well has there been any news of a web3 casino that was thought to be decentralised but actually proved to control the funds of their users? Well as for me I think that people are more concerned about external interference especially from the government.
A web3 casino that doesn't require any form of KYC would be in demand and many may consider them decentralised maybe this is where that perception is coming from.

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All I know is that web3 is not fully decentralized and the casino still controls your money.

You gamble logged in using web3 and to start betting you have to deposit money into an account then obviously the casino controls it right?

The same goes for withdrawals.

But honestly I have never gambled using web3 at any casino.

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Quote from: _act_ on December 04, 2024, 10:42:59 AM

Which means no gambling site to be decentralized as the gambling site and the money is controlled by the gambling site owners and not any other parties involved that can make them decentralized. Am I wrong? J think many of us do not know what decentralization is.

Of course the wallet is automatically being controlled by the casino/gambling site itself, and for anyone gambling in this type site should be that careful because there are still possibilities for compromise through the site itself. So, me i still advise that anyone using this type of gambling site should at least make another wallet and move only specific funds to gamble with for wallet security, though this kind of site still request for kyc when there's a suspicious move and senses money laundering from a specific wallet.

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Quote from: _act_ on December 04, 2024, 10:42:59 AM

If it was before, I think that web3 casinos can offer non KYC service than web2 casinos. But when I am reading some people's post, they talked that web3 casinos are decentralized in a way that the gamblers will be in control of their coins using a noncustodial wallet. But according to how I know about web3 gambling sites, they operate in a way that once the gamblers connect their wallet and make payment, the gambling site is in control of the money. Which means no gambling site to be decentralized as the gambling site and the money is controlled by the gambling site owners and not any other parties involved that can make them decentralized. Am I wrong? J think many of us do not know what decentralization is.

If you are owner of a decentralized casino, are you going to allow a third party to be in charge of the fund before a gambler make use of your casino? This is not so and that would be the pattern will would be seeing unless other new strategy is employed. I have used few of these decentralized casinos and I got fed up with the gas fees I was paying for every transaction. There are still gamblers that are huge fan of decentralized casinos for different reasons but I prepare using normal centralized casinos where I would deposit fund and use it to bet differently without having to make transaction for everytime I want to bet.

moneystery

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i don't think that web3 casino is decentralized because from the platform to the games provided there are managed by the casino, users are only given the freedom to make transactions using cryptocurrency and their wallets, other than that the casino is in full control of their services. also, the idea of a decentralized casino is quite funny, because how can people gamble without anyone regulating. so I think web3 casino is just a marketing word, actually it's just the same as a conventional casino except that it allows players to use their crypto wallet.

bangjoe

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Quote from: cabron on December 04, 2024, 11:06:37 AM

If you make payments, the money is in the casino's hands. But by connecting your wallet, you still have the funds.

It's just very alarming, though, because there were instances in the past when connecting your wallet alone could already be risky. I couldn't remember the project but IIRC it was an ICO page. He connected his MEW but didn't make a transaction yet his ETH was gone, it was sent to a wallet address without him knowing.

This is very terrible, I better not use a decentralized casino, moreover we do not understand the contract signed with our wallet to access the casino.
I have never experienced it like this, but it seems to have to be more careful of web3 casinos, because we don't know whether there is someone who deliberately makes a trap or not, the risk is very large, maybe it's better to use disposable wallet That.

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I think decentralization in gambling is just a fiction, those words are just used for marketing, but the fact is that web3 is not really decentralized, but I don't really care because I keep using a new wallet address if I want to connect my wallet

Joel_Jantsen

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Decentralized is just a fancy term for distributed networks. Many websites claim to be On-Chain or deploy a smart contract, but logically, a casino can never be truly decentralized. A casino can't have an owner if the network is distributed amongst multiple peers. No single entity should have access to users' funds if decentralization is the goal. It's a lot more complex than just throwing words around considering every single bet should be a transaction on the blockchain and so on. Why would a casino founder go this deep technically when they know they can just whip out with a white-labeled casino with a shady Curacao license and hop on the $$ train?

danherbias07

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I have not tried yet but I read about some comments about them. All I can say is it's not that far from what the reputable centralized gambling sites are offering and that's because it will still be a business at the end of the day.
Decentralization, they tried this before in trading and it never clicked, that's because there's a lack of traders that do their trades there. Why? Simply because there are no other perks and the system is not updated for newly listed coins. Also, who will update and maintain the site if there's no money coming in?
Yeah, so that means there are still people behind it and they are also doing business which means they will need some profits for their own salary and the teams that they will hire.
Another reason why decentralization in gambling sites may not work is because they will lack the advertisement power because they are not paid well to hire someone who will market it.

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Quote from: _act_ on December 04, 2024, 10:42:59 AM

If it was before, I think that web3 casinos can offer non KYC service than web2 casinos. But when I am reading some people's post, they talked that web3 casinos are decentralized in a way that the gamblers will be in control of their coins using a noncustodial wallet. But according to how I know about web3 gambling sites, they operate in a way that once the gamblers connect their wallet and make payment, the gambling site is in control of the money. Which means no gambling site to be decentralized as the gambling site and the money is controlled by the gambling site owners and not any other parties involved that can make them decentralized. Am I wrong? J think many of us do not know what decentralization is.

Well, yeah, many indeed do not know what Decentralization mean, up and until today, many will still argue that exchanges like etherdelta and forkdelta, idex were decentralized exchanges, of course they were not, they only had a privacy interface where you don't need to input any of your personal information to sign up, simply connect your wallet and that's it.

This is exactly the same mode that most self acclaimed decentralized casinos operate with, any casino where you still will have to make a deposit after connecting your wallet is not a decentralized casino, a decentralized casino will operate like uniswap, pancakeswap, which simply means that, directly from your wallet, you will be able to play games, bet on sports, without having to make any deposits first.

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Quote from: cabron on December 04, 2024, 11:06:37 AM

It's just very alarming, though, because there were instances in the past when connecting your wallet alone could already be risky. I couldn't remember the project but IIRC it was an ICO page. He connected his MEW but didn't make a transaction yet his ETH was gone, it was sent to a wallet address without him knowing.

This is even still very common. If you are added to a Telegram group for a new project to be listed, you will see scammers sending you telegram messages acting like they are officials from the project group on telegram. All what they want to do is to scam you by. They will give you a wrong website which you will connect your wallet. But I think you will need to make the transaction yourself but which I am not sure about because if I see such site, I just avoid it.

serjent05

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Quote from: _act_ on December 04, 2024, 10:42:59 AM

If it was before, I think that web3 casinos can offer non KYC service than web2 casinos. But when I am reading some people's post, they talked that web3 casinos are decentralized in a way that the gamblers will be in control of their coins using a noncustodial wallet. But according to how I know about web3 gambling sites, they operate in a way that once the gamblers connect their wallet and make payment, the gambling site is in control of the money. Which means no gambling site to be decentralized as the gambling site and the money is controlled by the gambling site owners and not any other parties involved that can make them decentralized. Am I wrong? J think many of us do not know what decentralization is.

If there is a need to deposit then it is not decentralized since the deposited fund would be under the control of the casino. I see some betting platform that is fully decentralized by letting the non-custodial wallet bet to their platform directly, but I would not say such platform as a casino since it lacks several functions that a true casino has.

Web3 casinos can be fully decentralized if the owner wants to but I think many casino owners even though using the web3 functionality still want to have control over the casino. So whether the casino using web3 application is decentralized is dependent on its owner, if the owner wants to implement full decentralization then it is.

cabron

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If you make payments, the money is in the casino's hands. But by connecting your wallet, you still have the funds.

It's just very alarming, though, because there were instances in the past when connecting your wallet alone could already be risky. I couldn't remember the project but IIRC it was an ICO page. He connected his MEW but didn't make a transaction yet his ETH was gone, it was sent to a wallet address without him knowing.

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Quote from: _act_ on December 04, 2024, 10:42:59 AM

... Which means no gambling site to be decentralized as the gambling site and the money is controlled by the gambling site owners and not any other parties involved that can make them decentralized. Am I wrong? J think many of us do not know what decentralization is.

Usually, the most decentralized gambling sites are built on decentralized apps, which run in a network like Ethereum or other networks which are compatible with smart contracts. It is possible to make a completely decentralized gambling platform, but the problem comes when the administration of the casino decides it is convenient for them to add backdoors as a security measure, in the case their smart contracts are targeted by hackers seeking to drain their liquidity. The smart contracts of those casinos are programmed to get control benefits to the holders of the master keys (the staff of the casino) so they can withdraw they money from the contract, deny access to certain addresses to the contract or even to close the contract from further engagement.
In short, even though it is possible, no staff will take the inmese risk of managing a fully decentralized gambling application, because that could be translated into loss of funds, very easily.

It is better for people who is seeking to have a seamless experience to stick to centralized but reliable gambling casinos, which have proven track record and liquidity.

Crypt0Gore

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Meaning that there is no difference, the decentralisation idea is meaningless, since once you click start the casino is in control, for me I believe that decentralisation is still far from online casinos, none is close yet, maybe someday this will be possible.

And honestly, I don't care because I don't even need web3 on casinos, I am good with what casinos are offering right now.

_act_

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If it was before, I think that web3 casinos can offer non KYC service than web2 casinos. But when I am reading some people's post, they talked that web3 casinos are decentralized in a way that the gamblers will be in control of their coins using a noncustodial wallet. But according to how I know about web3 gambling sites, they operate in a way that once the gamblers connect their wallet and make payment, the gambling site is in control of the money. Which means no gambling site to be decentralized as the gambling site and the money is controlled by the gambling site owners and not any other parties involved that can make them decentralized. Am I wrong? J think many of us do not know what decentralization is.

Topic: Are web3 casinos actually decentralized? (Read 493 times)