Topic: Aren't we the reason why BTC is becoming too much centralized? (Read 492 times)

Whales meaning big holders or whales meaning holders and manipulators?
If you think they do not exist, spend a minute and ask yourself these two questions.
Are there people who have more than 1000 bitcoins?
If you had 1000 bitcoins and knew this can influence the market and make you money, would you simply ignore it, or maybe start making more money?

I'm not sure whales really exist, I think it's just a myth...

we must be able to distinguish what is called a centralized or decentralized coin. Bitcoin since satoshi was created is a decentralized coin, nothing can change that. don't because the price changes because of market conditions then you say Bitcoin is not decentralized anymore. please throw away that mindset.

Well, for Tesla itself, it was hardly large volumes But seriously, it is hardly worth saying that in that particular case, it was the sale by such a large player as Tesla that led to such a significant drop in the price of bitcoin, because a lot of factors overlapped there. But of course, such large sales undoubtedly have an impact on the exchange rate price of an asset, because an excessively large amount of an asset on the market can put pressure on the price drop. However, such players want to maximize profits and usually keep this circumstance in mind and try to stretch such transactions as much as possible in time and volume.

Unfortunately they do not even just do it very often with the small amounts, they do it with very big amounts and that causes the price to plummet and skyrocket. I mean think about it, tesla had 1.5 billion dollars worth of bitcoin, they probably bought that all at once, and that probably did cause the price to go up very high, and at the same time they probably sold, or someone else with a lot of bitcoins ended up selling, and that causes it to go down very quickly.

It is not just about selling or buying, it is about how they are doing it with very very big amounts and that causes things to go out of hand. When you see a huge move do not think just their move, all the stop loss, all the leverages all the futures liquidated, all the trading bots these are all the things that gets trigger with just one whale selling or buying and that is why it matters a lot.

Many newcomers who have just entered the market are easily intimidated by all kinds of panic news. When they see the price of Bitcoin falling, they will choose to sell the Bitcoin in their hands because they cannot bear this huge psychological burden,And the consequence of this is that they will be recycled by the large institutions behind them. Whenever the market is in a downturn, these giant whales will buy a large amount of low-cost Bitcoin, and when the price rises, they will have a large amount of wealth. Thus becoming a giant whale that controls market prices.

No, it's because society has become obsessed with the cult of personality while at the same time being told to follow leaders and listen to authority.

When a child says, Why and the parent says because I say so, this sets the child up to blindly listen to authority rather than being taught the logic or reason behind the decision.

The term sheeple is perfect.

Since the issuance of Bitcoin, the price of the currency has experienced numerous plunges and halvings, but it still exists and has become a giant in the blockchain. Whenever institutions and governments send out panic signals to induce speculators to go out, they are constantly absorbing low-cost chips, which means that many institutions are also very optimistic about the future of Bitcoin. For speculators, this is accidental and inevitable. If everyone holds Bitcoin firmly, it means that there is no change of hands, no circulation, and no fresh blood, which is very detrimental to the development of Bitcoin. Inevitably, we cannot control the flow of Bitcoin into the hands of institutions. Speculators should be out, investors should have the last laugh!

This market is one of the harsh money games. The problem is that the new entrants do not have enough awareness of this market and make them pay the price. And this money game really made the greedy people really regret it.

Honestly, I don't think you have much to worry about there.  True, there are a lot of big companies buying up bitcoin, but there always seems to be plenty to go around--at least for the small holders like myself and a lot of people on this forum.  I mean really, were you planning on buying thousands of bitcoins yourself and are worried you might not be able to find enough on the exchanges?  Probably not.

As far as centralization goes, I'm pretty sure it doesn't come down to who owns the biggest amounts of bitcoin but who has the most hashing power in the mining aspect of it.  Bitcoin isn't PoS, so someone holding a million bitcoins shouldn't have any impact whatsoever on the collective bitcoin community, right?  Maybe I'm not understanding your concern, but that's the way I see it.

By the way, I've never given in to the various panics that bitcoin has seen over the last few years.  I tend to go contrary to what the market is doing, i.e., buying when everyone is selling (though I haven't held true to that 100% of the time, I'll admit).  In any case, when bitcoin tanks it doesn't really affect me emotionally such that I'm so scared that I think I have to sell.  Only noobs and weak-handed traders do that.

It is very interesting and it makes complete sense, after all those that have realized they are being manipulated cannot be manipulated anymore as they will refuse any request from the one that was manipulating them, but people need to realize this by themselves otherwise they are never going to believe it even if you show them evidence they are being manipulated by someone else, which is why we see people maintaining toxic relationships even if for those not in it the manipulation is obvious.

The layman just goes with the flow of pumping to make a profit and Elon just wants to show himself whether he has any influence in the crypto world. For ordinary people, it is very influential, especially if he is a rich person in the world, but for people who understand the world of cryto and blockchain, this is just a game to take advantage.

It is not a measure for bitcoin to be centralized, only judged by the current price, because bitcoin is not influenced by institutions, exchanges and figures, Bitcoin remains decentralized.

Actually many people mindset since bitcoin is been dropped via values is that cryptocurrency is now becoming centralized currency, while the evidence is very clear that bitcoin is not under in control of any platform, it has its principle of regulations which government or any individual sector can not control or regulate its values, so paying attention or listening to Elon musk's tweet it will discourage so many people to disvalues bitcoin most especially the newly invested people into cryptocurrency.

I think this is a good reminder for people who are rushing into their wallets and on exchange to sell their hodlings either because of Elon musk tweet or that others are selling. Personally, I don't believe Elon musk tweet is the big cause of bitcoin drop but that it got to a time for huge correction. Bitcoin has this way to shield off unmerited value gotten from unnecessary hype either from some popular person tweeting or from a huge buy from an institution.

Also bitcoin is decentralised and that a good factor that it has grown this height. The control factor is out unlike fiat and some centralised coins like ripple. So it has no control or regulation which is a good reason that many invest .

There are several reasons why people panic sell. And there's a little we can do about it because it is still their fund afterall. Maybe we can educate to minimize.

The usual people that tend to panic sell are the begginers and the guillibles. These type of people panic sell because they easily believe the negative news about bitcoin without fact checking or hearing second opinion from the professionals. When Elon Musk tweets, a lot go crazy and sell their assets without analyzing the data first. They would rather believe random information they have seen over the Internet instead of looking at the market trend and history of bitcoin.

Despite this panic selling events, I think it's still quite impossible for bitcoin to be owned by the government. Bitcoin is decentralized and they can't manipulate it as much as they want, hence, there is no point in chasing it. What I think is the most probable is that whales will be gaining more and more as long as people will panic sell. The whales are geniuses. They take advantage of the market volatility which can make them earn more profits in the long run.

Irrespective the challenges that's always face cryptocurrency through government and the one that comes from Elon musk, cryptocurrency is still decentralized currency, people selling their bitcoin due to a tweet of Elon does not indicate or grant us to say that bitcoin centralized, we are not even hundred (100%) sure that while people sell their crypto is because of elon tweet, so in this aspect we have to different decentralized and centralized via Bitcoin, no controls cryptocurrency which made it to decentralized while centralized is controlled by a sector. So in summary bitcoin is still decentralized currency.

The hard part is to make people realize they are doing a mistake, that is why we are not doing so great right now, if there was a chance that we could show people how they are doing a mistake and make them realize it, then they could recover and learn the correct way very easily, no human is too stupid to get away from manipulation after they realize they are manipulated but it is not easy to actually convince them the fact that they are manipulated.

A friend of mine who studies psychology explained it to me as "it is hard to realize you are manipulated because you deny it yourself, agreeing to fact that you are manipulated would mean you were tricked and nobody wants the fact that they are manipulated to be true so they deny it" and that sounds reasonable, if you tell someone that Elon manipulates them, and they agree, that means they agree to the fact that they are manipulated by someone else and that makes them feel bad.

It's not the whole market who reacts blindly on the signals of these influencers or panic sell towards these FUD rather these newbies who have Just entered this market in the hype of cryptocurrencies get emotional attached to their coins and suffer loss.So all they are making btc move in a centralised way because most of the true btc enthusiast who have technical knowledge are still holding and ignore any such advice from these Musk type of people and enjoys their own freedom.So in the long run btc will potray true decentralisation nature because you can't control it being a government also.

This is unlikely, people do not learn their lessons as they do not know why they are behaving in the way they do, this is why manipulation is so effective, it gets the target to do what you want without them realizing it this is the case, so even if people eventually learn to not follow Elon another one like him will appear and people are going to fall into this trap once again, only those that are able to see on their own the fact that they are being manipulated will eventually learn how to defend themselves by holding their coins and not listening to what people like Elon have to say.

FUD comes from them, and profits go back to them. institutions will make big profits. and panic is only felt by us as victims. can't control the panic. because FUD is a strategy that directly affects the mentality of investors and traders. FUD that we know today, came from the hands of high-ranking officials who wanted to try to dominate the sector of the Bitcoin price rate. Simply put, when tweets start spreading on social media, everyone panics. and when all have sold, the big institutions come in to replace their roles as big buyers.

Who says it is only the institutional sector that are buying these coins and not millions of other individuals that are buying, when the price goes down to affordable levels? I know most of my friends and family are buying the dip and none of them form any part of some large institutional organization. 

The "Dip" is necessary to flush out all the speculators from the Bitcoin scene, because these people are the people that are "trigger happy" when the price goes down and the first people who are selling. True believers in the technology and the future of Bitcoin will hoard and buy more coins on the Dip and use a small percentage of their coins for eCommerce.   

                                                          (Support Bitcoin as a Currency... not a Commodity)

Most of these investors found out about Bitcoin from a claim that it would give them profit. They don't have enough knowledge about how the community works. It really possible that these big influential personalities could control their decisions.

Its true that many investors are easily affected of negative news, influencers and FUD. They have a weak hands, probably lacking of informations on how things work on crypto.

Majority of panic sellers are new on crypto or plan to hold only for short term thus seeing the market in a situation they didnt expect lead them to sell at loss.

Thats why its a must to know what you're getting into to have your own understanding and decision. Negative news are quite normal, they just come and go but its up to us how to handle it.

Bitcoin is more decentralized when compared to any other cryptocurrency and there is nothing to worry about the centralization right now. A lot of the critics point to the fact that major mining pools such as F2pool, Antpool and ViaBTC control a large share of the mining hash rate. But what they ignore is the fact that not a single individual mining farm accounts to more than 3% of the total hash rate. And the miners can leave or join the mining pools as per their preference. So the stats for major pools are not very significant.

It’s everywhere and you can’t stop it. It is a normal thing that happens in every market, there are things that can happen and it will lead to the market either falling or going up, it’s just as it is and you can’t change it. Although I don’t think that’s a reason why the market would be either centralized or decentralized. And as for the big institutions, well that’s another thing, and I am aware that they have all been buying up  a lot of coins in the market. But, you also have to know that none of them would be ready to hold it forever.

There will still come a time when they will have to dump it ,and it will be retailers that will end up buying and it will still circulate. If they don’t, well, everyone is simply going to abandon it for them , there are already lots of other coins that people can invest in.

Centralization will always exploit decentralization, where there is control, there is power for those selfish people that want to rule something or anything.

On the one hand, it is easy, on the other hand, it is difficult to accuse newcomers that they want a quick and easy profit, because every investor would like a quick and easy profit. Another question is that the accumulated experience teaches that such a thing is rarely available and it is experience that allows you to avoid large losses from unsuccessful investments. But do not blame everything only for beginners, because panic sales are inherent in all markets with high risk, and the cryptocurrency market is included in this category, and if at first everything starts with profit-taking, then all this can end with sales in an effort to save at least part of the investment.

Well, you have a point @OP that, being influenced by institutions and whales to a great extent could form or make the system go into centralization with every individual,  the common man actually loosing his or her precious sats to institutions that could be monitored by the government. This already could be a failed scheme should we have the slightest government involvement as some sort of a strategy to actually get bitcoin away from the public. One thing I know fir sure about the government across tenors is that, they are never united. Each leader would want to be known for something unique and as such, wouldn't continue the plans and projects of the other instead, they abandon them and head for another.

Getting thy precious sats from the commo  man would be a very long and taking job to do and government can pass on this task from persons to persons, making it a failed endeavour already.

I think you're right to an extent, but perhaps in the future things will change. Like I said, I'm putting this in the perspective of USD going into the dirt, so people with money will look to put their net worth into something other than liquid cash. Middle class are a bit slower to diversify into other investments, but if they're forced to, I think they'll choose BTC over precious metals/stocks.

Thing that scares them is the volatility, but at some point USD becomes more unpredictable than crypto if you don't stop endless printing.

^ This is true because most of the newcomers in BTC investment are looking for this, they want an instant profit and all they had to want is to earn in a short period of time. Just like invested now and gain profit in the next day, that is not how BTC investment work, you should need to wait for a perfect time for that. However, regarding the punic sell, most again are those newcomers, they are very prone to this because we know that all of their concerns are profit in a short term.

Probably you are correct because we easily panic, that's the reason why the market can easily be manipulated by the whales. As of now, there's still not big improvement, crypto market is still a speculative market, we move on hype and FUD and that makes the price so volatile which makes it risky to invest.

However, since most of us want instant return, and it's possible in crypto, newbies are just too attracted to that reality, making them invest in a bull market, or at a peak instead of waiting for the price to dip before they'll invest.

As a result, whenever the price move opposite to their expectation, they panic as their focus on short-term profit.

I'm on a middle class and I understand the value of holding which I did since the last bull run, holding is not easy but if you are dedicated enough and know your goals for long term, that holdings can be easy for you. Don't blame yourself for the market being more centralized, you are just a small time player who always follow the trend and the whales, that's normal and we can't prevent this one. Government intervention are also growing, so we can expect a more centralized market especially when regulations take place.

A middle class would never go for hodling option TBH because they look for quick gains rather than long holds as they have a family they need to look after while also maintaining that "upper middle class" image in the society. Such people can't afford to buy 1 full BTC ATM because of its price of course, but they won't even buy a fraction of it after watching too many negativity spread in the markets as well as quick selloffs if they're new to this. They will fear of losing some % of their capital and then would need to redeem their fiat in loss.

Panic selling has been around in this industry ever since I can remember. And this does not apply only on new comers as what many people may say. Obviously most does this but there are some that actually know what they are doing or some that are invested on good insider groups. To clarify, even veterans sometimes sell out of panic depending on the situation and the type of fud being spread out. These cycle of events happen always and will do so for many years to come since it mostly is a great contributor in making this industry thrive. Better enjoy the volatility instead of hating on it which would do no one any good.

Now about the centralization, I do not think that big institutions alone can make bitcoin widely centralized since these big institutions themselves like to keep some things secret specially things that bring lots of benefits. Although centralization seems like a nightmare to any bitcoin enthusiast, sooner or later something just has got to give. And that obviously will be bitcoin since centralization is such a vital thing if we are to really make bitcoin get adopted fully world wide. But of course that won't mean it will be fully centralized since I do not think most crypto enthusiasts will agree to it. Specially now that more and more big names are intertwined with bitcoin. Anyway, only time will tell. We may not even be able to live long enough to see this happening for real. But just in case, there's still coins like monero, sovryn and more. So don't go stressing your self too much about this.

I think it was a property of the wealth in the past, and was, kinda, in recent times but with USD and other currencies beginning to crash, expect more and more of the middle class/averaging working man to start picking up on BTC, either as a long term investment or something they expect to use often. The poor can't afford the price swings like the rich can, but the middle class is usually a bit more resistant.

Exactly bro, i think the crypto community should be able to recognize this and stop being used by this big whales, people should learn to ignore whatever fud this guys will come up with and continue as nothing happened, especially something as little as a mare tweet from a none crypto OG can get people scared to the point of selling off their coin they bought with their hard earned money, by doing this, the crypto community appears vulnerable and also show that they can be easily manipulated into selling their assets. About time people change such behavior.

I think bitcoin is not being centralized as people gets influenced by FUD or commit panic selling, as you convert bitcoin into fiat, by then it will be consider as centralized as it gets converted into a centralized currency. Nevertheless, we should never tolerate falling into baits or FUDs no matter how big the influence of a certain individual is. You should make sure that your decisions are not based on assumptions or speculations alone, go ahead and work on it yourself so that you can have a firm decision when it comes to your investment.

Not to mention that besides the manipulation, they even celebrate this influencers getting in the market not knowing that they have an ulterior motive. Plus, decentralization won't last because companies won't stop getting into the market because there is an opportunity.

No matter what institutions and wealthy individuals buy through OTC, it is not possible to hide the outflow from crypto exchanges and the law of supply and demand increases the price. Besides, $35 000 is probably a lot of money for you and me, but for a fund with billions of dollars, it's actually a trifle - the current price for such players is not a problem - but things will change when the OTC market can no longer keep up with demand, and then we can expect the price to rise sharply.

Nothing in life is perfect, Bitcoin and everything around it should not be considered something that has no flaws - and people have always had some crazy need to twist everything they touch - it comes down to the fact that Bitcoin is not what Satoshi imagined, but it will be what those who use it in one way or another will make of it.

I agree with everything OP says. He is 100% right, but at the same time it is the reason why it is decentralized as well. If we all panic sell when Elon tweets that doesn't mean we are centralized, I understand that you think we are giving Elon a right to drop or increase the prices, but it is once again we the people who decide if we want to sell or not, Elon can't drop the price all by himself, that would be centralized, it is the people who make a decision and decided that they care about what he tweets, so it is still decentralized even while he has the power to up or down the prices with a tweet because We give him that power.

So instead of federal bank causing dollar to be worthless, it is Elon that decides on bitcoin and I know that sounds similar and make you think it is centralized but who does he get that power from? Us. Which is why it is still better than fiat.

  A whole lot of people see Bitcoin as Ponzi scheme and treat it as one so once the price drops the panic and sell of their coins. Overcoming FUD especially for newer investors is quite challenging and so selling comes first to their minds once any negative tweet or ban treat pops up against Bitcoin. I was once a victim of this it really took me a whole lot of decipline to put my emotions in order realizing Bitcoin is an investment.

All have the thought, also when crypto-currency withdrawal was banned in my country, that is you cannot withdraw or exchange bitcoin/crypto-currency to Fiat -naira- into any local Bank, this caused so many panic sells in my country, when many alternative lives on till now on how to go about it, I think we have given the government reasons to suggest more control wild dreams. Also the case of Elon musk is one am tired to even think of how we even got into that shoe, Influencers practically owning the success and has the failure road map of a crypto-currency.

There will always be people in the market that will panic sell. Others are aware of them. They also starts selling so that they can keep their profit and then buy when the crash is over after most people sell their coins. This is how the market works. No one cares if it is becoming centralized or remains decentralized. Right now most of the people are here just for making profit. A sad truth. By the way, I was expecting this thread to be about how the government are slowly imposing small policies that will eventually make bitcoin somewhat centralized.

There's a phenomenon that has been created in the last few years at least, and it's the fact that any kind of news means everyone should act in the same way the news are. Positive news? Everyone buys. Negative news? Everyone sells.

This is quite bad for the market, but I think it only happens because we're still few inside the market and it's still pretty easy to manipulate. And then, if you think about it, institutions who hate BTC actually love these kind of fluctuations. A wildly swinging market keeps some serious investors away from it.

We're to blame for this stuff for sure. I stopped taking action based on news a very long while ago, and my portfolio is healthier than ever before. As long as we don't fall prey to those manipulations, the phenomenon will be gone in no time. Why do we care about Musk's opinion? Why do we care about the FUDders? All I care is that Bitcoin brings me the financial independence I need.

Why are we measuring centralisation or decentralisation using the price movement and fluctuations? Just because people panic sell it doesn't means btc is centralized. When we talk about decentralisation of control, we talk about the ability to make transaction without any central authority and this quality of Bitcoin can never really be compromised. I am pretty much sure even Satoshi Nakamoto would have never thought of Bitcoin and it's price volatility due to FUD. He was concerned only about the transactional aspects.

You're so damn right! People go on and on about how Musk or other public figures manipulate the price of Bitcoin, but it would've never happened if people weren't so damn stupid and didn't swallow the bait. The human factor, emotions - this is the thing that makes, let's call it pseudo-centralization. Yes, there's no third party involved in price regulation, but people think the same, act similarly, that's why we are in this kind of situation today.
Hopefully, soon people will become more familiar with cryptocurrencies and won't make the same old mistakes.

I understand the emotions but that was never Satoshi's vision to have all the bitcoins as evenly distributed as they can be.

And this brings us to the decentralization part, you've said a lot of times we, we, we. There is no we, every single person in this whole world has a choice, of selling, buying of dumping, or holding, and unless you store your coins in some exchange there is nobody that can force you to do so. Despite the negative picture you're painting all of those users who have betrayed have done it at their own choice. Tesla, Micro, Winklevoss, or 50 Cent all have bought coins somebody has sold, there needs to be a buyer for this and this is the essential stuff in bitcoin distribution if miners wouldn't sell there would be no bitcoins to be distributed if people wouldn't part with their bitcoins there would be no services offering bitcoin payments (although this last one is going down the drain).

You have bought bitcoins too, right? Maybe on a smaller scale model, all us holders have done the same, rather than leaving 200k satoshi for everybody we're centralizing the coin!

If some entities gobbling up all bitcoins and the masses are selling them for pennies, it means one thing, the main thing that gives bitcoin value is diminishing, the trust is not there anymore, and I see it as a normal thing, as painful as it is, if nobody trusts the coin and dumps it, of course, it's normal for the value to go down, otherwise we would have had 1 billion altcoins with 1 trillion supply, worth each one a billion. This is true decentralization, everyone decides for himself and the entire userbase decides the price, if the bad guys want to buy all the coins and there is trust behind every coin they must be prepared to cough up all that money, will they manage to achieve such a thing it simply means the rules of the economy have prevailed, every asset has a price!

And if they do manage to end their pokemon bitcoin hunt by getting them all, what's stopping us to start again with a new coin? We are ten times richer and they are ten times poorer holding coins nobody wants 

Ok, I accept that we paid the price to get towards progress and adaptation. But then, why are they increasing the price of BTC? They should either dump it completely and keep it lower because then, these institutions will have a very fair as well as ranged BTC in order or buy from very low prices in futures and make much better returns.

There could be some weight to that, although you need to remember that not all of us are inclined to sell at a loss given that we know that most of these news are not news anymore, and just a ploy to push people to sell in order to move the price. Also, I don't think those sell-offs instigated by China and Elon Musk doesn't mean we're giving away our coins to the wealthy institutions, especially if there isn't really anyone buying those coins in the market. Perhaps in some instances, it is true, but for the most part I think it is not.

No, I think that's wrong thinking. You should never say that bitcoin is no longer decentralized just because someone manipulated its price in the market. Keep in mind that the bitcoin market is still in the process of growing and developing over time. They can toy with the price because it is quite financial while it doesn't change the decentralized nature of bitcoin. What the OP meant was that bitcoin users' thought and reaction became centralized because of the whale and FUD..

The difference between experienced investor and inexperienced investor (newbie investor) is how they survive FUD and whale game. It is clear that experienced investor will choose to stick with all the bitcoin they own because in reality the price continues to grow and reach new milestone over time.

I think it's natural because if the news will have an impact on the crypto community, of course there will be panic. if we take the example of china ban bitcoin. what about binance? and many other big exchange there and the miner also. there will be price changes from that issue. Therefore, I think we need valid news, not just FUD. in bitcoin FUD and fake news still possible get hype from people.

What if we prefer peace over war? Then there wouldn't be any need for military and additional billions around the world wouldn't be spent on such an useless things. We are the reason of everything, without doubt, of both, good and bad.

The problem is that the quality of new investors is very low. I mean that majority of people who invest in bitcoin actually don't know what it is, don't support the project and have false/wrong imaginations about it. Some people still think that word blockchain means the platform blockchain.com so...

Just have a look at reddit, check some posts there, you'll clearly see that people want to become rich overnight and when they see some % fall, they start to sell. When one sells at 5% and others follow, then price becomes 6%, those who waited before 6% and saw 7%, think that it's better to sell now than later and it's like chain on chain, so, finally we get rise and fall.
The fac that you discovered that we are the reason, changes nothing.

While it is true that panic selling is a problem in the market at the end of the day people have the right to choose what they do with their bitcoin and if their decision is to panic sell then this means they do not really understand bitcoin and its purpose, this plays against us but at the same time it was inevitable that those institutional investors came to the market and tried to manipulate things to their advantage, something that is not new in this market as whales have been trying to do the same as well.

Being effecting by people by speech and tweets is what we can see on any market not just bitcoin and cryptocurrencies. For example, I remember a few years ago people were following Trump's twitter page and looking for gold signals to get some fundamental news. That's what some strong people do, they release some fundamental news via twitter or other social media and waiting for people to follow them, here they will get advantage from the market by manipulation the price and this is nothing to do with bitcoin centralization. However, recently, there were too much attention to Elon Mask and his twitter page, this made people think he is actually reason for any pump/dump in the market not anyone else.

I think that one problem is that there are too many people driven into crypto trading or even investing, people who don't know nor care what crypto is as long as it brings some easy money.

And a derived problem is that many trading wannabes have no idea what they're doing, and when a news with potential to change the trend, or (even more) if a whale sells then spreads FUD, they're completely lost. And since they have no idea what's all this, they will sell, even if it's at a loss.

But as already pointed out on the replies here, the number of people selling bitcoin and also the amounts are rather small and a vast majority seems to be HODLing.

Will this result in small volumes affecting heavier the price? Probably.
Is this "centralization"? I am not sure. I wouldn't say so.

Bitcoin is not decentralized anymore. There are few people manipulating the market which isn't good for small investors. If things are continue to go like this then soon it will be a currency of rich people only and it will affect small investors very badly. Stop selling your coins no matter what.

Judging by the supply available on exchanges, most people are actually hodling, so the selling is mostly done by short-term speculators who will instantly make trades based on the sentiment of the news, regardless if those news posses something fundamental or not. And this FUD is not only causing the price drop by making people sell, it also turns away potential buyers, so price growth starts stagnating, and speculators decide to sell when they see that the hopes for price growth are disappearing.

What is an indisputable fact is that most Bitcoin investors only want a profit - and the problem (if we can call it that) is that some of them invest with the goal of short-term profit - and therefore react to any news with panic sales to protect their investment. This is the price we pay with the constant entry of new people who do not understand BTC well enough and are very susceptible to any news served to them through the media.


I fully understand you in your thinking, and I agree that more and more BTC increasingly becoming the property of wealthy individuals, and thus centralizing and in some way becoming inaccessible to ordinary people. From the publicly released data of all companies and funds that have invested in Bitcoin so far, they currently hold just over 8% of the max supply - but I believe that is much more considering there are a lot of investments that are not public.

Yet the market is completely open, anyone can buy and sell BTC whenever and however much they want - and I have said so many times that ordinary people have 10+ years to invest in BTC, who to blame for not doing that? Satoshi has given everyone an equal opportunity, those who are poor and have only a few $ in their pocket, to those who have billions - now only those who are a little richer can afford 1 BTC - but that is the price of progress and adaptation.

can't do anything with that, that's just a nature of human to be afraid of incoming danger same thing happened in the stock market as well and
it's not such a rare sighting for a stock to get dumped due to fud just like crypto.
It's just the bigger capital you have the faster you grow your capital and that's how it is, not to mention these whales buying the dip also with high risk
while the people who sold at the bottom I guess happy enough that their money get "saved" and thinks that it's necessary cut loss.
One thing important though, I keep accumulating crypto so i'm not one of the people who helps centralizing btc.

I think that there's a misunderstanding.
Bitcoin centralization/decentralization has nothing to do with the Bitcoin price or the market trends.
Decentralization of BTC doesn't mean equal distribution of BTC among as many people as possible.
Decentralization means that no person or entity can control the blockchain and decide which transactions should be confirmed and which should be reversed.
The concentration of more BTC among a smaller amount of crypto whales and companies has nothing to do with decentralization or the way Bitcoin Core blockchain works.This is just how the market economy works.
Money/capital gets concentrated in the hands of a few and the majority of small investors/traders end up losing money/capital.

Maybe it is time for people involved in the crypto world to calm down whenever the bad news release does not impact the price. If we can do that, I am sure those who release the bad news about crypto will think that the crypto community is a solid people who do not think about them. So their strategy to make people in crypto will not work and they will use the other strategy to make us panic again. Even if they prohibit bitcoin in their country, that does not mean bitcoin or crypto will stop because I am sure that the other country will still support bitcoin and crypto. We can try to let them say anything they want, but we need to calm down.

We are the reason why BTC/cryto market is becoming too much centralized but buy the rumor and am thee news is the game people traders are playing. However, it all caused by the market itself been a speculative material and then things are like that we should expect some people who will abuse it just to satisfy their greedy orgy.

Centralisation is not an effect of how people trade or what people tweet about bitcoin, but rather and effect of how the PoW is implemented and how people quickly went into maximising the profit that can be made per unit of energy spent on the work. It is simply a question of efficacy, where little people can have a large mining facility with the tech required to be competitive in the PoW market. Some other cryptos such as Ethereum are also progressively more centralised, but this effect is much more limited due to not having ASICS devices other than GPUs, for now anyway.

If you speak about being held by less people, I think you are wrong. Every time I speak with people that used to know zero about the subject, I find out that they are now all over crypto.

I don't want us to be naive here cause whether we like it or not there is some issue that will always influence the price of the market which I think the cryptocurrency market been subject to high volatility is the main cause of this issue but the naive crypto investors are the one that's fueling the circumstance of panic sell the most whenever Elon Musk tweets.
Meanwhile, China stopping mining can't be included as a FUD because the level of mining difficulty will reduce if the Chinese do stop mining and this always influences the price of the market right from the beginning.

Those who panic sell are newcomers only, they are too attached to elon hence their financial decision totally dependant on elon.


The rest of us who have been here hardly gets affected by elon's tweet, we know that the price gonna go up again and yes, the whales are smart enough to keep accumulating btc like there's no tomorrow.
Imagine increasing btc holding while the price of your asset keep increasing as well, it doubles the profit.

Very small amount of crypto holders are actually holding their BTC and crypto assets to bring the decentralization in the financial sector but most others are doing it for profit making so its obvious that they are going to sell the assets if the prices are falling but panic selling is something different which was actually created from the community side itself when there is a small or sudden dump and the chain reaction follows.

Well with how society works, it isn't really that surprising. Not to mention that crypto has been inviting a lot of newbie investors in recent years, mostly ones who don't actually know anything about what means in the market. Now daily traders actually have no choice but to follow suit sometimes since their profit pretty much lies on the short movements of the market, and if the market gets swayed with social media news, well, they just follow it, for profit.

Well tbh, this is only the market side. For Bitcoin development and adoption, I don't really think it affects it that much? All the news is pretty much affecting how people see Bitcoin as a way to earn money, not as a way to be used AS money.

I do think so too, we were too whiny about what we want to do in this decentralized market and now that the companies are presenting themselves to provide solution, we now complain. I think that we have already come a long way and that going back to roots is not advisable.

We can't control market activities. There will be buying and selling because of various reasons and I believe that's not related to the centralization/decentralization nature in Bitcoin. Decentralization is a network "philosophy."

Right now a super rich entity can accumulate Bitcoin and nothing we can do about it. It's a free market after all. What he can do with his huge bag is just sell/dump the market, price tank, rebound, and nothing bad will happen to the network.

I'm more concerned about the pump and dump, plus market manipulation that will taint Bitcoin "brand" and make it more difficult to buy/sell because of KYC and stuff.

These centralised thought leaders come and go and are inevitable.

But in the long run, there is no single entity that can manipulate the masses when it comes to bitcoin adoption. If people see value in BTC, which I think a lot of the world is just now waking up to the potential of blockchain technology, then they will adopt it and push prices up no matter what.

No one can force grassroots level adoption to happen. Not even Musk.

Right now, it's all speculative play from Musk. It'll die down, just give it time.

That seems to be the truth. And what's worse is that this is a testimony on how the world's wealth and, consequently, power will remain to reside in the hands of those same people who made it big within the fiat system. I understand that Bitcoin is no tool to redistribute the world's wealth, but it is also true that Bitcoin came out as a huge opportunity for ordinary people to somehow take a bigger slice of the pie.

Unfortunately, all this panic selling has become the transition point. Ordinary people are now letting go of their precious BTC in favor of the wealthy elites who used to criticize Bitcoin. Even if they're kind of late already, they're now buying Bitcoin by the billions. There used to be a lot of talking about how Bitcoin introduced a new elite or the new wealthy. It seems there is no more shift to happen.

Cryptocurrencies such as bitcoins gain their properties and benefits as a result of decentralization. As long as it is centralized there is very little to be gained from being cryptographic if you cannot use your own money independently and need the services of your central issuer bitcoin is much less likely to be centralized bitcoin is in high demand for decentralization and has a large number of investors. There is nothing to panic about bitcoin no one can control everyone will invest as they wish.

It's pretty difficult to convince a newcomer investor not to panic sell when the media is highlighting one negative news about Bitcoin or the other cause they prolly expect a crash to follow suit, and then again, apart from 'panic selling', people sell for other more personal reasons, thus I don't think everything is falling into the 'big' hands of institutional investors.

Having said that, I don't think it's possible that Bitcoin can possibly be 'completely' owned by institutional investors, and then again, as for the government, they do not even want Bitcoin, they can't control it, neither can they print out as many as they want, thus their focus can only be in the aspect of regulations. Bitcoins decentralized makeup gives us an advantage, at least we know it's not possible for anyone to 'control' the network.

It's only the small new investors and the big old ones that are selling, older ones are selling but they're doing like they've been doing for as long as I've been here and just dumping the price so they also can buy lower.

Panic selling/buying the news is retail's favourite sport... Oh and selling at a loss apparently...  They seemed to be ignoring/unaware of the articles in January saying everyone who'd ever bought bitcoin and held were now in profit.

And yeah old school investors are probably annoyed they'd missed the boat to get it cheap so they're going this way about it instead to either try and get more funds, weaken the network or just stroke their egos.

So whenever Elon Musk tweets, we panic sell.
Whenever China says something like they'll stop mining and add some extra official shit to it, we panic sell.
When USA says their investors will need to disclose their crypto holdings over a certain amount, we panic sell.

On every panicking news, we panic sell.
They create enough FUD, and we panic sell.

I know I've used the "panic sell" so many times, but have you, for God's sake, ever imagined with a cool mind that whenever we panic sell during shakeouts in the markets, we are actually giving away our BTC to those big institutions who are willing to snatch it away from us, yeah I mean it, every single drop of BTC seems to be taken away from us and it'll be no longer an average guy's BTC which was Satoshi's vision (don't pull me on this, understand the emotions). So if it goes into the hands of these institutions and governments completely, where will we stand? Nowhere. Why don't we understand that it's all more of an intrigue well thought out to wipe out every single BTC hodler (even the smallest one out there) and take away the control from the hands of common people whom Satoshi Nakamoto left BTC with.