Topic: Argentina ready to drive the next Bitcoin price explosion - Beat China ? (Read 5578 times)

Quote from: Milotyc on January 14, 2014, 05:41:51 AM

I don't think Argentina has same deep pockets as the chinese investors have. The chinese pumped a ridiculous amount of money into the bitcoin market. This is a feat that is going to be very hard to match. The only good thing is that since The chinese gov. came down hard on bitcoin exchanges the price hasn't dropped to the original low levels. Nothing like the $30 to $2 drop from a couple of years back.

You never know ... at the moment the Chinese bitcoin exchanges are circumventing the regulation (no payment-provider or bank shall allow to put money into a BTC exchange) by using a voucher system. Seriously, do you think the Chinese government will allow this trick to happen in infinity? Afaik bitcoin is supposed to stop in China before Chinese New Year.
I can imagine another clamp-down and another panic before that date.
Opinions?

My opinion/thought: Everyone in china is hodling regardless of what happens, just like us. Volume on Chinese exchanges dropped drasticly since vouchers, they're not selling out.

Not everyone. The smart ones are.

That's the only reason I can think of as to why the chinese investors didn't all panic sell. They are being smart and are going to wait out the storm rather than settle for less money than what they started with. But for how long?

Siegfried

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Quote from: doolittle on January 13, 2014, 06:46:17 PM

Quote from: Coma on January 14, 2014, 05:32:59 AM

I don't think Argentina has same deep pockets as the chinese investors have. The chinese pumped a ridiculous amount of money into the bitcoin market. This is a feat that is going to be very hard to match. The only good thing is that since The chinese gov. came down hard on bitcoin exchanges the price hasn't dropped to the original low levels. Nothing like the $30 to $2 drop from a couple of years back.

You never know ... at the moment the Chinese bitcoin exchanges are circumventing the regulation (no payment-provider or bank shall allow to put money into a BTC exchange) by using a voucher system. Seriously, do you think the Chinese government will allow this trick to happen in infinity? Afaik bitcoin is supposed to stop in China before Chinese New Year.
I can imagine another clamp-down and another panic before that date.
Opinions?

My opinion/thought: Everyone in china is hodling regardless of what happens, just like us. Volume on Chinese exchanges dropped drasticly since vouchers, they're not selling out.

Not everyone. The smart ones are.

Siegfried

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Activity: 266

Merit: 250

Quote from: doolittle on January 13, 2014, 06:46:17 PM

Some numbers:

internet users: ~50% but just 25% @ home (cybercafes are really popular)

Not anymore. I think because of widespread adoption of smarthphones, cybercafes are no longer popular as they used to be 4 years ago.

The main problem for adoption in Argentina I think is the lack of exchange service other than localbitcoin. People need somewhere to throw their pesos at and get btc easily. Huge business oportunity that nobody took yet, I can't understand why.

I have read about a bitcoin ATM in Uruguay. I wonder what the border crossing rules are between those two countries. Seems like it would be pretty easy for someone to go across from Buenos Aires to Montevideo and back to get bitcoin.

Milotyc

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I don't think Argentina has same deep pockets as the chinese investors have. The chinese pumped a ridiculous amount of money into the bitcoin market. This is a feat that is going to be very hard to match. The only good thing is that since The chinese gov. came down hard on bitcoin exchanges the price hasn't dropped to the original low levels. Nothing like the $30 to $2 drop from a couple of years back.

You never know ... at the moment the Chinese bitcoin exchanges are circumventing the regulation (no payment-provider or bank shall allow to put money into a BTC exchange) by using a voucher system. Seriously, do you think the Chinese government will allow this trick to happen in infinity? Afaik bitcoin is supposed to stop in China before Chinese New Year.
I can imagine another clamp-down and another panic before that date.
Opinions?

My opinion/thought: Everyone in china is hodling regardless of what happens, just like us. Volume on Chinese exchanges dropped drasticly since vouchers, they're not selling out.

Coma

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Some numbers:

internet users: ~50% but just 25% @ home (cybercafes are really popular)

Not anymore. I think because of widespread adoption of smarthphones, cybercafes are no longer popular as they used to be 4 years ago.

The main problem for adoption in Argentina I think is the lack of exchange service other than localbitcoin. People need somewhere to throw their pesos at and get btc easily. Huge business oportunity that nobody took yet, I can't understand why.

doolittle

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I don't think Argentina has same deep pockets as the chinese investors have. The chinese pumped a ridiculous amount of money into the bitcoin market. This is a feat that is going to be very hard to match. The only good thing is that since The chinese gov. came down hard on bitcoin exchanges the price hasn't dropped to the original low levels. Nothing like the $30 to $2 drop from a couple of years back.

You never know ... at the moment the Chinese bitcoin exchanges are circumventing the regulation (no payment-provider or bank shall allow to put money into a BTC exchange) by using a voucher system. Seriously, do you think the Chinese government will allow this trick to happen in infinity? Afaik bitcoin is supposed to stop in China before Chinese New Year.
I can imagine another clamp-down and another panic before that date.
Opinions?

Kaiji

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Hoist the Colours

I don't think Argentina has same deep pockets as the chinese investors have. The chinese pumped a ridiculous amount of money into the bitcoin market. This is a feat that is going to be very hard to match. The only good thing is that since The chinese gov. came down hard on bitcoin exchanges the price hasn't dropped to the original low levels. Nothing like the $30 to $2 drop from a couple of years back.

Lewis2

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Quote from: niothor on January 08, 2014, 06:27:28 PM

Some numbers:

minimum salary: 3600$ pesos
black market price for usd/peso: 1/10.77
population: 41 millions
poverty: ~25%
internet users: ~50% but just 25% @ home (cybercafes are really popular)

Doesn't sound to promising considering the population...

ErnieRox

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Novus ordo seclorum

i think Argentina, along with alot of other neighbouring latin american countries can benefit and, help bitcoin. Most of people do not trust the government or banks, they keep raising taxes, alot of poverty. Remittances and alot of relatives in the usa, could also help move coins as well, imo Shocked

ArticMine

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Monero Core Team

I would not be surprised if the government in Argentina would come down hard on Bitcoin, just as is the case with USD, since it is for all practical purposes a "harder" currency than USD. The more interesting question from a price perspective is the "parallel", "grey", "blue" or "black" markets for BTC and how they will interact with the corresponding "parallel", "grey", "blue" or "black" markets for USD.

Edit: They could simply follow the proposal in Switzerland and treat BTC the same as USD.

GigaCoin

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Giga

maybe the need is there but the purchasing power in argentina is lacking, compared to China. Ppl have been calling for ARgentina to save bitcoin since a while now but nothing happened.

doolittle

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@d5000: Thanks for the perspective. Are there videos or presentations of the conference in Argentina on the web? Or a good summary? Have not seen anything on Coindesk, ...
@BitcoinAshley: Agree. There has been speculation on Argentina for a long time. Some people like Tuur have shown some active interest. However so far nothing has really happened. Still, I am hoping for the best. I wished I could have made it to the B.A. conference.

igorr

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Bitcoin launch coming, Afghanistan is ready for Bitcoin. Grin

d5000

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Decentralization Maximalist

I am from Argentina. After the controversial commerce secretary Guillermo Moreno was fired (the father of the interventionist measures from last years), the government has stated it will loose the strict control of the foreign currencies market a bit this year. So the time with most potential for a "black market Bitcoin boom" in Argentina is probably over, but also the risks of a strict government intervention are lower now.

Argentine lawyers have made analysis of Bitcoin and agree that BTC in the view of Argentine laws cannot be viewed as a "moneda" (legal currency) but as a commodity or "private money". But there is no official government or central bank statement until now.

http://elbitcoin.org/situacion-legal-de-bitcoin-en-argentina/

The Buenos Aires Bitcoin conference was attended by a representant of the Argentine Central Bank who was talking with the organisators and has stated that the Central Bank is about to evaluate how to integrate BTC in the economy of Argentina. That does sound like a regulation is soon to come.

http://rare.us/story/central-bank-of-argentina-seriously-considering-bitcoin/

There is no real-time exchange in Argentina right now, only a escrow marketplace (ConectaBitcoin), and, obviously, LocalBitcoins. Argentine MtGox customers can buy BTC with a local payment service (DineroMail), but for a high fee.

vdcc

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I think that Argentina will be second to ban bitcoin, after Taiwan

pera

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[...]
Argentina 3,300 Argentine pesos = ($542) per month for up to 200 hours; paid thirteen times a year.[13][15][16]
[...]

more like $306...

there are many different rates: dolar oficial, dolar blue, dolar turista, dolar tarjeta, dolar soja..... Tongue

windjc

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Quote from: MAbtc on January 08, 2014, 06:02:51 PM

Quote from: windjc on January 08, 2014, 05:32:55 PM

Quote from: EvilPanda on January 08, 2014, 06:21:21 PM

Anything to indicate progress in adoption from when we were talking about this 6 months - a year ago?

Actually yes. I have seen some very good reports from the recent Argentine Bitcoin conference. The consensus is they are desperate for this technology and will literally sacrifice their lives for it.

That sounds a bit drastic. Cheesy

Well, Andreas Antonopoulos can be a bit passionate. But I take him seriously. He is about as sincere as they come, whether you agree with his opinions or not.

Ragnarly

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Quote

False, in Argentina buying dollars in the black market is as easy as buying bitcoins with localbitcoin.

This is the key difference between China and Argentina/ Latin America. Their currency black market is a healthy, decades old industry and their governments lack the surveillance apparatus of China.

BitcoinAshley

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This issue with inflation in Argentina has been going on for quite some time now, IMO there is nothing new and sudden that will spark an Argentinian bitcoin revolution and subsequent price spike.

Wishful thinking. I certainly wish those idiots would get their heads around the fact that the American Dollar is no better than their Peso and will befall the same fate - bitcoin and precious metals and hard goods/land/etc are the only ways out. Yet for some reason they are flocking to the dollar which has 9% inflation* instead of 35% inflation... what a bunch of n00bs

*Carter-era calculations 4tw, none of this "change the formula around and fuck with the data to make inflation appear <2%" bullshit
EDIT: Come on, you wouldn't expect me to use the official Argentinian government figures for peso inflation, so why would I use the official American government figures for dollar inflation? We're talking 10% vs 35% in Arg. and 1.whatever% vs. 8-9% in USSA.

niothor

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in defi we trust

Some numbers:

minimum salary: 3600$ pesos
black market price for usd/peso: 1/10.77
population: 41 millions
poverty: ~25%
internet users: ~50% but just 25% @ home (cybercafes are really popular)

That's actually not bad, better than Ukraine or Bulgaria, comparable to Slovakia or Poland.

Argentina 3,300 Argentine pesos = ($542) per month for up to 200 hours; paid thirteen times a year.[13][15][16]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_wages_by_country

Minimum wage???
Twice as the Czech republic , but lower than Greece?
This world is fucked up

EvilPanda

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Small Red and Bad

Quote from: windjc on January 08, 2014, 05:32:55 PM

Some numbers:

minimum salary: 3600$ pesos
black market price for usd/peso: 1/10.77
population: 41 millions
poverty: ~25%
internet users: ~50% but just 25% @ home (cybercafes are really popular)

That's actually not bad, better than Ukraine or Bulgaria, comparable to Slovakia or Poland.

Tzupy

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Google trends for Argentina & Bitcoin today: 17, global bitcoin: 31 (from 100 on the 28th November 2013).

pera

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Some numbers:

minimum salary: 3600$ pesos
black market price for usd/peso: 1/10.77
population: 41 millions
poverty: ~25%
internet users: ~50% but just 25% @ home (cybercafes are really popular)

MAbtc

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Anything to indicate progress in adoption from when we were talking about this 6 months - a year ago?

Actually yes. I have seen some very good reports from the recent Argentine Bitcoin conference. The consensus is they are desperate for this technology and will literally sacrifice their lives for it.

That sounds a bit drastic. Cheesy

Satyre_Noir

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Quote from: e521 on January 08, 2014, 04:19:06 PM

Anything to indicate progress in adoption from when we were talking about this 6 months - a year ago?

Argatinians are aware of bitcoin and they buy it when they can, nothing new imo.

aminorex

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Sine secretum non libertas

It would probably do more good for Argentina than it would for bitcoin.

pera

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[...]
but don't underestimate kirchner, unless satoshi is argentinian she will turn bitcoin down in every possible way

I don't think so, Bitcoin is different from any other "real world" currency (where countries/banks have forex reserves)... if people buy btcs with Pesos in Localbitcoin, for example, no "real world" money is going outside of the country so that doesn't affect at all the value/price of the Peso.

Anyway, even if more people start buying Bitcoins in Argentina, don't expect anything like China! Argentina has a really small population, and a huge portion of it is poor..

Quote from: e521 on January 08, 2014, 05:26:24 PM

[...]
Argentians already have a dollar black market, it could change to bitcoin now that it's not so easy
http://www.businessinsider.com/argentina-us-dollar-black-market-scheme-2013-11

False, in Argentina buying dollars in the black market is as easy as buying bitcoins with localbitcoin.

windjc

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