Argentinian Government Ready to Take Advantage of Crypto Holder

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Quote from: Sithara007 on May 11, 2022, 09:45:39 PM

My advice to the Latin American shit socialist regimes such as the one in Argentina - first take care of your own incompetence, and after that you can go after the cryptocurrency holders. Argentina is a country that has defaulted on its own debt repayment every 5 years or so. Given the digital nature of this asset, if the government tries too hard then the users will simply sell their assets in other jurisdictions and in the end the Argentine treasury will lose whatever little amount it was supposed to receive. Maybe they should take a lesson or two from the Indian government on how to regulate crypto.

That is never going to happen, when a government fails at the most basic of their functions instead of admitting their mistakes and accepting their responsibility they do what they always do, which is to blame someone else for the problem, even when they know that it is impossible that anyone else is responsible for what is happening, they will do so anyway.

However the people of Argentina have adapted to their reality so I have no doubts that many people will find ways to avoid paying those taxes in some way or form.

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My advice to the Latin American shit socialist regimes such as the one in Argentina - first take care of your own incompetence, and after that you can go after the cryptocurrency holders. Argentina is a country that has defaulted on its own debt repayment every 5 years or so. Given the digital nature of this asset, if the government tries too hard then the users will simply sell their assets in other jurisdictions and in the end the Argentine treasury will lose whatever little amount it was supposed to receive. Maybe they should take a lesson or two from the Indian government on how to regulate crypto.

wxa7115

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Quote from: ShowOff on May 05, 2022, 01:53:48 PM

Starting May 1, 2022, the Indonesian government through its ministerial regulation has set a tax for crypto traders that is levied directly on licensed exchanges whenever a trader makes a transaction "sell or swap". We have to pay 0.22% as tax every time we sell our crypto to fiat and that rule has been in effect since May 1 yesterday.

It is clear that the government will maximize every opportunity to profit from crypto traders so we have no way of evading taxes except never selling anything to fiat until recently. The smart move was that they didn't give us the freedom to self-report the amount of tax we had to pay, but they did issue a rule and require the exchange to do it for them. The same might happen in other countries especially if crypto trading and investing is legalized.

What happens with those tax laws is that the government always thinks that people are going to remain doing the same thing even after they pass a law like this, but people will instead adjust their behavior.

If exchanges will retain the taxes that you are supposed to pay automatically then people will begin to avoid centralized exchanges and move to their decentralized counterparts, will everyone do it? Of course not, but enough people will do it and this will reduce any income they expected to get from a law like that.

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Crptocurrencies trading is business, hence traders are expected to pay tax to the state. But taxing crytos would be very difficult because the beauty and uniqueness of crptocurrencies is decentralization and privacy. The government might not be able to get and keep accurate data of cryptocurrencies users because most of them choose to be anonymous. It would only be effective if non-custodial wallets are linked with the government tax database which is highly unlikely.

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When the government wants to benefit from the crypto holder, it is like the government to immediately legalize crypto, in my country the same thing happens, in some exchanges they state that every trading and withdrawal pieces must be deducted for state tax crypto for transactions.

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Quote from: wxa7115 on May 05, 2022, 11:25:35 AM

Something like this was to be expected, if you leave a fiat trail that connects you to bitcoin or altcoins and your identity was exposed at some point then sooner or later the government will come to your door and ask for what they think it belongs to them.

However they cannot deal with the P2P usage of bitcoin, if you do not leave a trail that leads back to you then they cannot possibly know that you are holding any bitcoin, so a system like this is never going to be perfect and many people will be able to avoid becoming part of such database if they want.

P2P is definitely the way to go if you want to stay anonymous fully. They will know that there is money in there but they wouldn't know where that money is going or coming from and when you do p2p to sell it back then they will not be able to follow you anymore, instead they will follow another person.

If they catch that person then that person gives your name is the only way so try to do it overseas so that you wouldn't really be known, sell to someone else in another nation and you will not be known, or try to give no information and get it in cash, that way even if the person is caught then they can't give you up since they do not know who you are.

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Quote from: serjent05 on April 28, 2022, 05:53:59 PM

Argentinian Tax Agency Supports Creation of Global Crypto Report System to Avoid Evasion

Quote

The AFIP, the Argentinian tax agency, is supporting the creation of a centralized system that serves as a registry for cryptocurrency holders. According to statements from its head, this would make it easier for tax agencies all over the world to curb evasion. The organization has already made use of financial information to collect taxes from Argentinian users with bank accounts abroad.

As expected, The government will do the best they can to milk money from crypto holders. This is the first time I read about the government creating a centralized record of the registry of the crypto holders in order to get tax on whatever profit the crypto holder has. It looks like this is the start of the crypto tax collection exploit of the government. I am sure after this one becomes successful, many countries will follow this example. So we better expect that in the near future our very own country will do such a thing. Cryptocurrency blockchain may be decentralized but the government seems to have its way of breaking its shell.

You just have to hide your crypto from the government but it is nearly impossible unless you buy your crypto OTC or mine yourself using a small rig. Any other option would leave you unprotected against the government attacks. Once they know that you have crypto or you have a way to earn them, they'll want their cut. If you can manage to make your crypto anonymously then there is no reason for them to know about your holdings.

ShowOff

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Starting May 1, 2022, the Indonesian government through its ministerial regulation has set a tax for crypto traders that is levied directly on licensed exchanges whenever a trader makes a transaction "sell or swap". We have to pay 0.22% as tax every time we sell our crypto to fiat and that rule has been in effect since May 1 yesterday.

It is clear that the government will maximize every opportunity to profit from crypto traders so we have no way of evading taxes except never selling anything to fiat until recently. The smart move was that they didn't give us the freedom to self-report the amount of tax we had to pay, but they did issue a rule and require the exchange to do it for them. The same might happen in other countries especially if crypto trading and investing is legalized.

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Quote from: Lucius on May 01, 2022, 08:55:53 AM

It would be illogical for governments not to think about such things, it is in their interest to try to collect as many taxes as possible, but even more to control the flow of money. All this, of course, in order to prevent money laundering, terrorist financing, and various crimes

They've used this excuse before because it's palatable to most people that don't think past what the government tells them. Most people are willing to give up most of their liberties in the name of safety, so any false promises that the government produces will be done under the name of safety, including crypto regulation. Some European nations have invoked the same arguments citing terrorism as their reason for regulating crypto currency, when no such evidence exists of widespread crypto use amongst these people. They're just interested in the tax money.

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This is expected from governments, we have a very popular saying here that says: “The government milks the ant.” This means that the government strives to find taxes by means that no one would think of, in any case, if collecting taxes from holders of cryptocurrencies makes cryptocurrencies legal in the country, then this It is okay because in this case you will not commit a violation of the law if you own or trade in cryptocurrencies, I think this will be better for holders of cryptocurrencies in the long run.

wxa7115

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Quote from: Vaskiy on April 28, 2022, 06:31:33 PM

With technology anything is possible. So, creating the centralized directory on the people using/holding cryptocurrency is possible. However this isn't going to be perfect. There'll be loop holes and people make use of it. The major focus is to overcome the tax evasion creating a universal directory that can be used by the tax agencies all around the world. In my view, the data collections on the users will be made connecting to the bank accounts. So, then onwards people show interest in direct usage.

Something like this was to be expected, if you leave a fiat trail that connects you to bitcoin or altcoins and your identity was exposed at some point then sooner or later the government will come to your door and ask for what they think it belongs to them.

However they cannot deal with the P2P usage of bitcoin, if you do not leave a trail that leads back to you then they cannot possibly know that you are holding any bitcoin, so a system like this is never going to be perfect and many people will be able to avoid becoming part of such database if they want.

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Quote from: serjent05 on April 28, 2022, 05:53:59 PM

Argentinian Tax Agency As expected, The government will do the best they can to milk money from crypto holders. This is the first time I read about the government creating a centralized record of the registry of the crypto holders in order to get tax on whatever profit the crypto holder has.

I am not sure how much of the Argentinian population actually pays its taxes but if the government is cracking down on it, there must be another side to it. Of course this is not implemented yet just that it might come in reality in future.

Quote

It looks like this is the start of the crypto tax collection exploit of the government. I am sure after this one becomes successful, many countries will follow this example. So we better expect that in the near future our very own country will do such a thing.

This is why I said about the currently tax-paying population, in most countries which are considered less-developed, majority dont pay their taxes properly. If the government suspected that people are using cryptocurrency to evade taxes they will take strict action.

Currently Indian government imposed 30% tax on transactions. This move was probably done to hinder people from taking part in crypto.

Quote

Cryptocurrency blockchain may be decentralized but the government seems to have its way of breaking its shell.

This will be interesting to observe. In my assumption they will work with all the locally running exchanges to collect capital gains data and tax people on the basis of that against KYC.

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Quote from: AjithBtc on May 01, 2022, 05:16:12 PM

We can't blame the government. The major focus of any country is to generate money from its people. How is this possible, levy tax over the people. Atleast Argentinian government is making plans for the taxation. However this can't be made immediately, so the focus is good with short term changes. Already India have put 30% tax which is very big and limit people from using it.

Indeed we cannot blame the government for such actions since every citizen has the obligation to contribute towards its country and this is done by taxing us. Taxes is what fuels the country to run and improve. Although some countries do not see much improvement due to corruption, it still does help a bit. But main point is that as a citizen of our country we must not avoid our responsibility towards our country. And for the country, it would be best if the taxes imposed aren't too unreasonable as the 30% tax in India as what you have mentioned. This is just crossing the line.

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I don't know why the government do look for a way to make cryptocurrency centralized so they can have access to individual holders the same way they are doing to us with paper money. The prospective of Bitcoin is not for the centralized system of running transactions but to make it decentralized so we all can have our own privacy and to limit third party control to our crypto portfolios.

I am not surprised that different countries now are looking for strategies so crypto holders can always pay for taxes and their identity can be known. Argentina government want to support cryptocurrency but in another dimension that may affect the decentralized world.

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Quote from: serjent05 on May 02, 2022, 04:12:37 PM

I do not think that they can trace 100% of Argentinian crypto holders. They can only have access to centralized exchanges so I think they will start from there. Actually the following news the next day said that the largest private bank, Banco Galicia, started accepting cryptocurrency investment[1] and probably this had been announced to support the crypto-related activities of the Argentinian government.

Interesting news, and since I was interested in the exact type of service, I had to translate the article from Spanish and I found out some interesting details. Clients can buy cryptocurrencies for a minimum of only $ 0.50, but this is a custodial service in which the client cannot withdraw crypto to his wallet, but can only sell them to the bank. Another interesting thing is that the crypto assets are kept abroad by the company with which this bank has entered into an agreement (Lirium), and these funds are not covered by the regulations of the Central Bank of Argentina or any other domestic agency.

Interesting way of doing business, but if we take into account that the difference in price is 3%, and that there are certainly some service fees - with the fact that the bank has over 3 million clients and over 300 branches, if only 10% of clients decide on this type of investment , it will bring a good income to the bank.

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Quote from: AmoreJaz on April 28, 2022, 06:30:27 PM

they may not get the whole picture of the crypto holdings of their people, but at least they will be getting something from this market. unlike those countries who are totally banning the crypto market. we all know that crypto users can hide some of their transactions and you can just disclose your other txs if you will use centralised platforms. their government may be realising that they can get a hold of some of their crypto users but definitely, they know, they won't get the entire crypto market of their people.

This is mostly the advantage of not banning crypto in one country. Well, there's no reason to ban actually if they can make profits out from those crypto holders. And in fact, banning crypto won't be the people's loss because they can shift into another country where crypto is not banned. Now, it will be the government's loss if they still pursue banning crypto in the future.

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Quote from: serjent05 on May 02, 2022, 04:12:37 PM

Quote from: The Cryptovator on May 01, 2022, 04:01:28 PM

I am wondering how it would be a success? How they could trace which addresses have been used by which users? It's not possible in a decentralized ecosystem. Only centralized exchange or wallet would be traced and ask for taxes. Anyway could use non-custodial wallets to handle their crypto assets. During sale even they could do it in the black market in case government overcharge the tax.

I do not think that they can trace 100% of Argentinian crypto holders. They can only have access to centralized exchanges so I think they will start from there. Actually the following news the next day said that the largest private bank, Banco Galicia, started accepting cryptocurrency investment[1] and probably this had been announced to support the crypto-related activities of the Argentinian government.

Quote

From today, May 2, the home banking of Banco Galicia, the largest private bank in Argentina, offers the option of buying bitcoin (BTC) and other cryptocurrencies to the company's customers.

[1] https://www.criptonoticias.com/negocios/banco-galicia-argentina-vende-bitcoin-criptomonedas-sitio-web/

We all know that any government wouldn't get a hold of the whole picture of crypto movements within their jurisdiction.
So yes, they will start from their local crypto exchanges legally registered under their Central Bank.
Because it is easy to get those numbers from centralized platforms.
And if some of their banks will offer crypto services, then, they will also have those info on hand.
Better take advantage of this crypto market rather than not get anything by banning its existence.

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Quote from: The Cryptovator on May 01, 2022, 04:01:28 PM

I am wondering how it would be a success? How they could trace which addresses have been used by which users? It's not possible in a decentralized ecosystem. Only centralized exchange or wallet would be traced and ask for taxes. Anyway could use non-custodial wallets to handle their crypto assets. During sale even they could do it in the black market in case government overcharge the tax.

I do not think that they can trace 100% of Argentinian crypto holders. They can only have access to centralized exchanges so I think they will start from there. Actually the following news the next day said that the largest private bank, Banco Galicia, started accepting cryptocurrency investment[1] and probably this had been announced to support the crypto-related activities of the Argentinian government.

Quote

From today, May 2, the home banking of Banco Galicia, the largest private bank in Argentina, offers the option of buying bitcoin (BTC) and other cryptocurrencies to the company's customers.

[1] https://www.criptonoticias.com/negocios/banco-galicia-argentina-vende-bitcoin-criptomonedas-sitio-web/

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I think in some sense government is doing right thing.
Their is a clear resoan for them to take action because it could get huge threat for the economy of Argentina.
Am saying this because I know how money inflation can distroy a countries reputation and cost huge loss for normal people of the country.
I know the main concept of crypto itself is to be not control by any particular person or group and if government to centralisation, the meaning behind crypto will be loss. But we living in a real world where taking advantage of something or someone is like a common thing and no government want there mony and sources to go away and they all want to control what they can to get better results..

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It’s no surprise to me, the government would always want to take advantage in everything. If they decide to ban cryptocurrency, they know that it is their loss, because a lot of people would still continue to make use of cryptocurrency even after they have banned it.

Cryptocurrencies that are truly decentralized doesn’t need any approval from the government for people to be able to make use of it, that’s why in countries where it has been banned, they would still see people who make use of it. Only centralized exchanges can be banned and not the decentralized ones. And since the government is starting to know that now, so they have decided not to ban it but rather do as much as possible to make it a centralized system.

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Quote from: AjithBtc on May 01, 2022, 05:16:12 PM

We can't blame the government. The major focus of any country is to generate money from its people. How is this possible, levy tax over the people. Atleast Argentinian government is making plans for the taxation. However this can't be made immediately, so the focus is good with short term changes. Already India have put 30% tax which is very big and limit people from using it.

Exactly, Argentina is also a tax dependent and they can't survive without this especially the economic situation that they are into right now. They still need to create a law for this one, this is not easy to execute but expect that they are slowly getting there and taxing your profit in crypto is really possible. Argentinian should look for alternatives, most probably there's still a way for them not to pay huge taxes, they just need to understand the new law.

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We can't blame the government. The major focus of any country is to generate money from its people. How is this possible, levy tax over the people. Atleast Argentinian government is making plans for the taxation. However this can't be made immediately, so the focus is good with short term changes. Already India have put 30% tax which is very big and limit people from using it.

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Quote from: crzy on May 01, 2022, 04:41:50 PM

Quote from: The Cryptovator on May 01, 2022, 04:01:28 PM

I am wondering how it would be a success? How they could trace which addresses have been used by which users? It's not possible in a decentralized ecosystem. Only centralized exchange or wallet would be traced and ask for taxes. Anyway could use non-custodial wallets to handle their crypto assets. During sale even they could do it in the black market in case government overcharge the tax.

Most probably a way to intimidate those holders in a decentralized platform so they can declare their income and pay the necessary tax. Argentina is doing their best effort to collect more taxes, this is one of their plan and it looks like crypto user there should follow this especially if you’re already on a CEX platform.

If your name is already on CEX, I think you can’t escape this tax anymore since the government already have your details and most probably will collect the tax from you. Is Argentina legalizing cryptocurrency and accept it as legal tender? If yes I think paying taxes is fine as long as you can freely use cryptocurrency, maybe a small percentage for the tax can still be a big help for the country and for their own economy, this can be a good one and for the benefits of many.

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Quote from: The Cryptovator on May 01, 2022, 04:01:28 PM

I am wondering how it would be a success? How they could trace which addresses have been used by which users? It's not possible in a decentralized ecosystem. Only centralized exchange or wallet would be traced and ask for taxes. Anyway could use non-custodial wallets to handle their crypto assets. During sale even they could do it in the black market in case government overcharge the tax.

Most probably a way to intimidate those holders in a decentralized platform so they can declare their income and pay the necessary tax. Argentina is doing their best effort to collect more taxes, this is one of their plan and it looks like crypto user there should follow this especially if you’re already on a CEX platform.

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I am wondering how it would be a success? How they could trace which addresses have been used by which users? It's not possible in a decentralized ecosystem. Only centralized exchange or wallet would be traced and ask for taxes. Anyway could use non-custodial wallets to handle their crypto assets. During sale even they could do it in the black market in case government overcharge the tax.

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Quote from: ultrloa on April 30, 2022, 09:20:14 AM

Collection of data maybe means that they are tracking how big the number of crypto users and to know what law they can implement towards this. I also believe that many other country contributes to the decision on the country who want to regulate crypto and if they see how huge the user base of this technology for sure they will find ways to implement a taxation and they will provably start by getting the information on legal platform which is registered on their country. Hopefully the tax they ask to get is not so huge and fair to each crypto user out there.

If the userbase is huge, that means even a slight tax would make them a lot of money and they could help either their pockets (like all politicians always do) or use some of it for the betterment of the nation (maybe a small sum).

So, this would unearth the fact that they could make profit and each nation should consider making it legal and allowed so that they could tax it. My nation didn't make it legal tender yet, probably won't, but they have seen it as a legal thing and allowed exchanges to flourish, we have plenty now who all spend millions on marketing but the end result is that we are talking about huge taxes paid and nation grows bigger with it (or politicians grow richer).

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Quote from: Lucius on May 01, 2022, 08:55:53 AM

So I don't see a problem with a government going in that direction, and anyone who buys and sells crypto legally pays taxes anyway

Same here, I don't see any problem if the government implements a tax on cryptocurrency transactions. It is the duty of every citizen to pay taxes. Aside from that, I can see positive vibes from this kind of regulation. If the government imposes a tax on cryptocurrency they automatically legalize and adopt cryptocurrency, thus, I can see a massive adoption coming if countries follow the example.

Quote from: Lucius on May 01, 2022, 08:55:53 AM

but the question is how well the government will protect that data, because it would be very inconvenient for someone to hack it and make it public.

Indeed this is also one of the major concerns of developing countries that do not prioritize DATA security. For example, voter information was leaked during the 2016 Philippines election.[1]

Quote from: Kakmakr on April 30, 2022, 04:25:48 AM

Well, there are two things wrong with your post...
..snipped

I think it is the Argentinian Government's Tax Agency approach you are referring to

.

[1] https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-36013713

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Quote from: tabas on April 30, 2022, 03:28:06 AM

How they're going to know that a citizen is a holder? Unless that citizen declares and tells that he's a holder then they should know. But otherwise, the government will never know that someone is a holder unless being declared and proclaimed.
Well, this is where things are going for the governments to take advantage of the people that are into crypto, they should also regulate the local exchanges.

I think it is enough to regulate exchangers that withdraw crypto to fiat. It is enough to get information once on which wallet was credited from his bank card through the exchanger and that's it, then follow his operations and the balance of his wallet.

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Quote from: Kakmakr on April 30, 2022, 04:25:48 AM

Well, there are two things wrong with your post...

1. Tax evasion is not the main aim for most people, when they use Crypto currencies. A lot of them just want to have faster and cheaper transactions ...and some financial privacy. (They do not want some government official snooping on their financial transactions)

2. Having a central database of all "Bitcoin holders" in their country, will not solve their tax evasion problems. There will still be a lot of people (criminals) that will use direct payments not registered on this centralized database to evade taxes. Roll Eyes

That’s right, a lot of people always think negatively when cryptocurrency is mentioned. But, that is not the truth about this, a lot of people have different reasons and of course there are good reasons why they are making use of cryptocurrency. Not everyone who is making use of cryptocurrency has a bad intention.

When I started making use of crypto currency it was just for me to be able to receive payments from companies that I work for who were abroad. And it made things a lot easier for us as payment was made the same day and also received same day, instead of having to make use of banks that would take days before the payment arrives.

And other payment methods weren’t even an option in my country then, so not everyone who decided to use Bitcoin had any bad intention for doing so. And some of us who are making use of it are for investment as well.

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It would be illogical for governments not to think about such things, it is in their interest to try to collect as many taxes as possible, but even more to control the flow of money. All this, of course, in order to prevent money laundering, terrorist financing, and various crimes, but in many countries also due to anonymous donations to various anti-government organizations that fight against bribery, corruption, and nepotism.

Given that most crypto transactions have their source in centralized crypto exchanges where clients have already made KYC, it is not difficult to come up with data that would create some kind of common database. After all, most countries in the world exchange data on the bank accounts of their citizens, and it was difficult for any ordinary person to hide anything from the authorities.

So I don't see a problem with a government going in that direction, and anyone who buys and sells crypto legally pays taxes anyway - but the question is how well the government will protect that data, because it would be very inconvenient for someone to hack it and make it public.

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Quote from: serjent05 on April 28, 2022, 05:53:59 PM

As expected, The government will do the best they can to milk money from crypto holders. This is the first time I read about the government creating a centralized record of the registry of the crypto holders in order to get tax on whatever profit the crypto holder has. It looks like this is the start of the crypto tax collection exploit of the government. I am sure after this one becomes successful, many countries will follow this example. So we better expect that in the near future our very own country will do such a thing. Cryptocurrency blockchain may be decentralized but the government seems to have its way of breaking its shell.

I was expecting to see that one coming not just about Argentinia but about many other countries, tax is usually the first income resource for the governments and since people, many in the world are using bitcoin and cryptocurrencies the trading value of fiat will decrease so the tax they get from people will decrease, because of that, I was always waiting to see the governments start taking tax from the bitcoin holders and the traders, but I think if people start using the private wallets and do p2p exchanges they can have a chance to stay away from the governments.

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Argentina is experiencing a hyperinflation, too much money around will surely cost them a lot and maybe they are just trying to control it and help their economy to survive by raising more funds thru their taxation. The government can really impose this kind of law that requires people to pay their taxes, just like in other countries where it is already required. For me this is way better than to ban Bitcoin, people have to deal with the regulations, its inevitable.

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Well, big exchanges like Binance or Coinbase already cooperate with governments all around the world, so in some way they are registers of crypto holders, because they have KYC. I'm not sure how feasible it is to create a global register, governments would be wary of unlimited sharing of data about their citizens with each other, as that could cause trouble for them. Also using foreign banks to avoid taxes is not exclusive to crypto, so existing regulations should take care of it.

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Quote from: ultrloa on April 30, 2022, 09:20:14 AM

Hopefully the tax they ask to get is not so huge and fair to each crypto user out there.

I believe is going to be a considering percentage for a start to encourage the people not to kick against it and to support it but I also believe it will be increased with time because government can not survive without generating money. If they push the percentage high it will be resistant to that policy which delay will come into it.

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It is not surprising that the government wants to take crypto taxes from their owners because the government sees cryptos as being able to provide a large income for the country. I think sooner or later, every government will apply a tax on crypto owners and the amount will depend on the policies of each government. After all, the government will have a way to collect taxes from crypto users and we must be really wise in using crypto so that the taxes we pay are appropriate.

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Quote from: gantez on April 30, 2022, 09:02:53 AM

I think collection of data of cryptocurrency users in Argentina means the government want to have a regulation to either collect tax and to know the rate of adoption in the country. I think it will be better if there is sincerity of regulation and not to ban the people account. Linking of accounts with KYC isn't decentralised.

Collection of data maybe means that they are tracking how big the number of crypto users and to know what law they can implement towards this. I also believe that many other country contributes to the decision on the country who want to regulate crypto and if they see how huge the user base of this technology for sure they will find ways to implement a taxation and they will provably start by getting the information on legal platform which is registered on their country. Hopefully the tax they ask to get is not so huge and fair to each crypto user out there.

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I think collection of data of cryptocurrency users in Argentina means the government want to have a regulation to either collect tax and to know the rate of adoption in the country. I think it will be better if there is sincerity of regulation and not to ban the people account. Linking of accounts with KYC isn't decentralised.

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I'm not sure what to think of this initiative. It says that it'll create a crypto holder registry (so, everyone who has cryptos is supposed to be on it?) to ensure taxes are being paid. Are there registries for those holding stocks, commodities, securities? Are there registries for people who hold their money in, say, foreign fiat, and then sell sometimes when the price is right (and with a huge inflation in Argentina, this can lead to significant profits)?
I think that treatment must be equal, and if it's more harsh for crypto holders than for everyone else, it's not fair.

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Well, there are two things wrong with your post...

1. Tax evasion is not the main aim for most people, when they use Crypto currencies. A lot of them just want to have faster and cheaper transactions ...and some financial privacy. (They do not want some government official snooping on their financial transactions)

2. Having a central database of all "Bitcoin holders" in their country, will not solve their tax evasion problems. There will still be a lot of people (criminals) that will use direct payments not registered on this centralized database to evade taxes. Roll Eyes

so98nn

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Nothing new as what other countries are doing right now. These days all of them copying each other. The taxation report is also compulsory in India. Finance minister Sitaraman did the same when they revised the bill for India-22-23 goals. The tax is not 2,5,10% but its whopping 30% on every crypto transaction which includes buying or selling of the assets in the crypto forms.

Quote from: tabas on April 30, 2022, 03:28:06 AM

How they're going to know that a citizen is a holder? Unless that citizen declares and tells that he's a holder then they should know. But otherwise, the government will never know that someone is a holder unless being declared and proclaimed.
Well, this is where things are going for the governments to take advantage of the people that are into crypto, they should also regulate the local exchanges.

It is simply based on the bank records. When you buy and sell the crypto then your local exchanger will have to decalre the asset holdings with your KYC. Plus whenever you will be withdrawing the amount into your bank account or sending money to crypto exchanger, that's gonna be on record as crypto profits. So there you go, they know it.

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no wonder that the government is trying their best to track down crypto owners and collect taxes from them... they try to regulate crypto circulation in their country as much as possible on the grounds that this is to protect crypto users in the country.. smh

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How they're going to know that a citizen is a holder? Unless that citizen declares and tells that he's a holder then they should know. But otherwise, the government will never know that someone is a holder unless being declared and proclaimed.
Well, this is where things are going for the governments to take advantage of the people that are into crypto, they should also regulate the local exchanges.

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Quote from: serjent05 on April 28, 2022, 05:53:59 PM

Argentinian Tax Agency Supports Creation of Global Crypto Report System to Avoid Evasion

Quote

The AFIP, the Argentinian tax agency, is supporting the creation of a centralized system that serves as a registry for cryptocurrency holders. According to statements from its head, this would make it easier for tax agencies all over the world to curb evasion. The organization has already made use of financial information to collect taxes from Argentinian users with bank accounts abroad.

As expected, The government will do the best they can to milk money from crypto holders. This is the first time I read about the government creating a centralized record of the registry of the crypto holders in order to get tax on whatever profit the crypto holder has. It looks like this is the start of the crypto tax collection exploit of the government. I am sure after this one becomes successful, many countries will follow this example. So we better expect that in the near future our very own country will do such a thing. Cryptocurrency blockchain may be decentralized but the government seems to have its way of breaking its shell.

It's always interesting to see how different governments react to cryptocurrency and it does feel like Argentina are overstepping the mark a bit. If you bought cryptocurrency with money that is already fairly taxed and there is the assumption that you will properly declare any future earnings from it, that should be enough. However their current stance feels like huge overreach and could backfire by driving reporting further underground. While the notion probably sounds good and noble on paper, it's not going to work well in this form.

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Well, if we really try to understand it, taxes after all are in no doubt just and vital responsibility of any country citizen. No one should really be exempted from this since it helps the country itself with a lot of things regardless of the corrupt government. What's wrong though is if governments impose unreasonable tax to use crypto enthusiasts which I wish they never do. Otherwise, goodbye custodial wallets and welcome back non custodial wallets. I really don't mind a few hassles if it protects me and my hard earned assets from unreasonable taxes and worse case freezing or total confiscation.

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Quote from: Yogee on April 28, 2022, 06:28:31 PM

You can still hide your crypto funds from them if you really wanted to but don't expect you can hide forever when you've been using centralized exchanges and custodial wallets in the past.

Yes, my first thought is that those who have their private keys will be able to escape this system, but it will depend a lot on what they have done in the past.

Knowing what the Argentinian government has done in the past, things like this don't surprise me, they see money leaking out of people holding bitcoin, and they want to control it.

For anyone who doesn't know a bit of Argentina's economic history:

Quote

Corralito (Spanish pronunciation: [koraˈlito]) was the informal name for the economic measures taken in Argentina at the end of 2001 by Minister of Economy Domingo Cavallo in order to stop a bank run which implicated a limit of cash withdrawals of 250 ARS per week (at that time 1 USD = 1 ARS).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corralito

Quote

Argentina's currency board established a fixed pegging of one-to-one parity between the peso and the U.S. dollar. It also guaranteed full convertibility of pesos into U.S. dollars.

In January 2002, the new president Eduardo Duhalde ordered his finance minister Jorge Remes Lenicov to repeal the Convertibility Law and adopt a new, provisional fixed exchange rate of 1.4 pesos to the dollar (a 29% devaluation) and the conversion of all the bank accounts denominated in dollars into pesos and its transformation in bonds ("Corralon"); soon afterward it completely abandoned its peg and allowed the peso to float freely, resulting in a swift depreciation of the peso, which lost 75% of its value with respect to the U.S. dollar in a matter of months, stabilizing at a rate of 2.9 pesos per dollar by 2003.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convertibility_plan

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Quote from: serjent05 on April 28, 2022, 05:53:59 PM

As expected, The government will do the best they can to milk money from crypto holders. This is the first time I read about the government creating a centralized record of the registry of the crypto holders in order to get tax on whatever profit the crypto holder has. It looks like this is the start of the crypto tax collection exploit of the government. I am sure after this one becomes successful, many countries will follow this example. So we better expect that in the near future our very own country will do such a thing. Cryptocurrency blockchain may be decentralized but the government seems to have its way of breaking its shell.

it has been predicted by many people that when crypto adoption becomes more widespread, we will see many countries trying to take advantage of bitcoin and crypto, whether it is by legalizing bitcoin or by imposing taxes on all bitcoin holders. Currently, the government of my country has not imposed a tax on bitcoin holders here, there is a possibility that they will follow Argentina's footsteps.

Vaskiy

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With technology anything is possible. So, creating the centralized directory on the people using/holding cryptocurrency is possible. However this isn't going to be perfect. There'll be loop holes and people make use of it. The major focus is to overcome the tax evasion creating a universal directory that can be used by the tax agencies all around the world. In my view, the data collections on the users will be made connecting to the bank accounts. So, then onwards people show interest in direct usage.

AmoreJaz

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they may not get the whole picture of the crypto holdings of their people, but at least they will be getting something from this market. unlike those countries who are totally banning the crypto market. we all know that crypto users can hide some of their transactions and you can just disclose your other txs if you will use centralised platforms. their government may be realising that they can get a hold of some of their crypto users but definitely, they know, they won't get the entire crypto market of their people.

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Quote from: serjent05 on April 28, 2022, 05:53:59 PM

As expected, The government will do the best they can to milk money from crypto holders. This is the first time I read about the government creating a centralized record of the registry of the crypto holders in order to get tax on whatever profit the crypto holder has. It looks like this is the start of the crypto tax collection exploit of the government. I am sure after this one becomes successful, many countries will follow this example. So we better expect that in the near future our very own country will do such a thing. Cryptocurrency blockchain may be decentralized but the government seems to have its way of breaking its shell.

Not surprising which government would really be making out steps and laws which would really be focusing on taxing every crypto user specially holders considering that they are holding
millions of dollars which they wouldnt really like for them to miss out on what taxes that they could really get but the question is, on how they would really be doing such
tracking or on how they would really extract those users? How they would know? Through CEX? I think this wont really be that much to be effective.

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Quote from: serjent05 on April 28, 2022, 05:53:59 PM

... . This is the first time I read about the government creating a centralized record of the registry of the crypto holders in order to get tax on whatever profit the crypto holder has.

I guess it's the first country to make a public statement about this. I'm pretty sure countries that already had taxation laws on crypto gains or losses is maintaining a list of their own.

Quote

Cryptocurrency blockchain may be decentralized but the government seems to have its way of breaking its shell.

You can still hide your crypto funds from them if you really wanted to but don't expect you can hide forever when you've been using centralized exchanges and custodial wallets in the past.

Some blockchains are not that decentralized by the way.

serjent05

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Argentinian Tax Agency Supports Creation of Global Crypto Report System to Avoid Evasion

Quote

The AFIP, the Argentinian tax agency, is supporting the creation of a centralized system that serves as a registry for cryptocurrency holders. According to statements from its head, this would make it easier for tax agencies all over the world to curb evasion. The organization has already made use of financial information to collect taxes from Argentinian users with bank accounts abroad.

As expected, The government will do the best they can to milk money from crypto holders. This is the first time I read about the government creating a centralized record of the registry of the crypto holders in order to get tax on whatever profit the crypto holder has. It looks like this is the start of the crypto tax collection exploit of the government. I am sure after this one becomes successful, many countries will follow this example. So we better expect that in the near future our very own country will do such a thing. Cryptocurrency blockchain may be decentralized but the government seems to have its way of breaking its shell.

Topic: Argentinian Government Ready to Take Advantage of Crypto Holder (Read 367 times)