The fact she said she was pregnant, whether she actually was pregnant or not, etc. have nothing to do with anything.
The fact he ran after her, outside his house, down the street and then shot her/them in the back as they were running away means it was no longer self defense.
So, I expect he will be charged. If he had killed her inside the house while they were beating on him then it would probably be self defense but he could still be charged since they were unarmed so that makes it even tricky there.
If they had a gun, it was inside the house and he felt in immediate danger of being killed, shot them before they shot him then no issue at all even if she was 8 months pregnant.
Topic: Arizona killer Joseph Wood dies almost two hours after execution begins (Read 1920 times)
July 25, 2014, 04:02:03 PM
July 25, 2014, 05:08:03 AM
So now our nation has regressed from a modern, progressive country to a middle ages country where we not only have to execute people but we also have to torture them in the process. Nobody can tell me that they don't know how to execute people but they may be dysfunctional in Arizona where they have the likes of Joe Arpaio, who probably would have been run out of the old west, who treats prisoners like serfs that owed a debt to the vicaire in the dark ages. Where he fits I don't know, but it isn't anywhere in America of the free. It is more likely in about 13th century France or Spain where they treated prisoners like this and tortured many people as well as executed them. Not only are the police shooting people down in the US now in a wholesale manner but prisoners are also dying at a record rate in prison. Now they are torturing them in an act that ends in death. Maybe a sign of the cross for both the people that do this and the ones who are the recipients is in order!
Clearly you have never been the victim of a rape. Your carefree attitude that all can be forgiven and forgotten should stay in preschool while you hold hands and sing.
I had the unfortunate opportunity to be the attending physician to a woman and child who had their heads beaten in by a table lamp from a robber. The child died, the woman was in a coma for about 2 months and then started rehab. What do you think we should do with the attacker? Deport him to an island like Australia? Give him a house and public assistance so he won't have to steal? Or just release him to kill others (he murdered 3 people before the 2 I saw)?
Your enlightenment has no solution, only critique
I think we should be making self-defence laws clear and understandable so that people don't have to be scared of defending themselves in their own homes never mind out in the streets, but good luck doing that when governments want to leave us as defenceless as possible. In a kill or be killed situation I'd never say don't defend yourself like some people would ( Those are the ones who are truly naive and usually have armed protection going around with them ), but going "Hurr durr, death to all criminals" just makes you a murderer yourself whether you agree with that assessment or not and I'm someone who firmly believes in the idea of self-defence.
I don't see anybody crying death to all criminals, well I'm sure there are a few nuts here. Crimes are weighted sometimes based on circumstance. A person killing somebody in an emotional fit usually gets a lesser charge than somebody who has been planning an assassination. Self defense laws are only useful in cases where there is a victim who can defend themselves. It does nothing to keep a killer, a rapist, a child molester off the streets. I was asking umari127 to post possible solutions to incarceration which he/she felt are bad solutions.
Here's an example of what you are talking about:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/man-shot-burglar-pregnant-24704576
Should he be charged or not? He might have been robbed by the same gang that burglarized my house. Prior to my burglary I never wanted a gun nor had I ever touched a gun. Knowing the history of the people who broke into my house, I feel comfortable now shooting and killing anybody that comes after my family in my house... but that's in my house.
July 25, 2014, 04:42:39 AM
So now our nation has regressed from a modern, progressive country to a middle ages country where we not only have to execute people but we also have to torture them in the process. Nobody can tell me that they don't know how to execute people but they may be dysfunctional in Arizona where they have the likes of Joe Arpaio, who probably would have been run out of the old west, who treats prisoners like serfs that owed a debt to the vicaire in the dark ages. Where he fits I don't know, but it isn't anywhere in America of the free. It is more likely in about 13th century France or Spain where they treated prisoners like this and tortured many people as well as executed them. Not only are the police shooting people down in the US now in a wholesale manner but prisoners are also dying at a record rate in prison. Now they are torturing them in an act that ends in death. Maybe a sign of the cross for both the people that do this and the ones who are the recipients is in order!
Clearly you have never been the victim of a rape. Your carefree attitude that all can be forgiven and forgotten should stay in preschool while you hold hands and sing.
I had the unfortunate opportunity to be the attending physician to a woman and child who had their heads beaten in by a table lamp from a robber. The child died, the woman was in a coma for about 2 months and then started rehab. What do you think we should do with the attacker? Deport him to an island like Australia? Give him a house and public assistance so he won't have to steal? Or just release him to kill others (he murdered 3 people before the 2 I saw)?
Your enlightenment has no solution, only critique
I think we should be making self-defence laws clear and understandable so that people don't have to be scared of defending themselves in their own homes never mind out in the streets, but good luck doing that when governments want to leave us as defenceless as possible. In a kill or be killed situation I'd never say don't defend yourself like some people would ( Those are the ones who are truly naive and usually have armed protection going around with them ), but going "Hurr durr, death to all criminals" just makes you a murderer yourself whether you agree with that assessment or not and I'm someone who firmly believes in the idea of self-defence.
July 25, 2014, 02:35:09 AM
So now our nation has regressed from a modern, progressive country to a middle ages country where we not only have to execute people but we also have to torture them in the process. Nobody can tell me that they don't know how to execute people but they may be dysfunctional in Arizona where they have the likes of Joe Arpaio, who probably would have been run out of the old west, who treats prisoners like serfs that owed a debt to the vicaire in the dark ages. Where he fits I don't know, but it isn't anywhere in America of the free. It is more likely in about 13th century France or Spain where they treated prisoners like this and tortured many people as well as executed them. Not only are the police shooting people down in the US now in a wholesale manner but prisoners are also dying at a record rate in prison. Now they are torturing them in an act that ends in death. Maybe a sign of the cross for both the people that do this and the ones who are the recipients is in order!
Clearly you have never been the victim of a rape. Your carefree attitude that all can be forgiven and forgotten should stay in preschool while you hold hands and sing.
I had the unfortunate opportunity to be the attending physician to a woman and child who had their heads beaten in by a table lamp from a robber. The child died, the woman was in a coma for about 2 months and then started rehab. What do you think we should do with the attacker? Deport him to an island like Australia? Give him a house and public assistance so he won't have to steal? Or just release him to kill others (he murdered 3 people before the 2 I saw)?
Your enlightenment has no solution, only critique
First of all, you can't be 100% sure that the guy convicted was the villain behind these crimes (even if he pleaded guilty, showed where he had buried the corpses, etc). Secondly, serving lifetime in prison is not much different from a death penalty in the aspect of freeing society from the murderer (that's the sole viable reason behind capital punishment) with that only difference you can always revert the situation if there are new facts found proving the convicted as innocent.
And you don't even consider the society's guilt in bringing up a criminal.
July 25, 2014, 02:21:40 AM
Arizona lawyers lead call for inquiry into Joseph Wood's two-hour execution
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/24/arizona-lawyer-independent-inquiry-woods-two-hour-execution
<< Repblican senator John McCain describes botched execution as "torture" as controversy intensifies about death penalty drug secrecy. >>
July 25, 2014, 01:35:33 AM
These people are generally animals that deserve to die but I don't trust the state to decide who lives and who dies. The power to take life is the ultimate destruction of freedom.
That is not how it works. A jury of the defendants peers decide who lives and dies. They were well aware of what would be the result of a guilty verdict. The defendant was well aware of what the result could be if he murdered two people.
July 24, 2014, 09:23:10 PM
These people are generally animals that deserve to die but I don't trust the state to decide who lives and who dies. The power to take life is the ultimate destruction of freedom.
The state did not decide, the jury did. The state only decided to try to pursue having him killed.I agree that he very much got what he deserved.
July 24, 2014, 09:16:23 PM
These people are generally animals that deserve to die but I don't trust the state to decide who lives and who dies. The power to take life is the ultimate destruction of freedom.
July 24, 2014, 07:56:13 PM
The article fails to mention that he was sedated the whole time. Aka sleeping. He was snoring. Not gasping for air.
Either way, the dude murdered two people in cold blood. I would give zero shits if he spent the last minutes of his life suffering. Deserves every bit of it.
Either way, the dude murdered two people in cold blood. I would give zero shits if he spent the last minutes of his life suffering. Deserves every bit of it.
Same here, I could care less if it lasted 10 hours instead of 2.
July 24, 2014, 07:50:59 PM
So now our nation has regressed from a modern, progressive country to a middle ages country where we not only have to execute people but we also have to torture them in the process. Nobody can tell me that they don't know how to execute people but they may be dysfunctional in Arizona where they have the likes of Joe Arpaio, who probably would have been run out of the old west, who treats prisoners like serfs that owed a debt to the vicaire in the dark ages. Where he fits I don't know, but it isn't anywhere in America of the free. It is more likely in about 13th century France or Spain where they treated prisoners like this and tortured many people as well as executed them. Not only are the police shooting people down in the US now in a wholesale manner but prisoners are also dying at a record rate in prison. Now they are torturing them in an act that ends in death. Maybe a sign of the cross for both the people that do this and the ones who are the recipients is in order!
Clearly you have never been the victim of a rape. Your carefree attitude that all can be forgiven and forgotten should stay in preschool while you hold hands and sing.
I had the unfortunate opportunity to be the attending physician to a woman and child who had their heads beaten in by a table lamp from a robber. The child died, the woman was in a coma for about 2 months and then started rehab. What do you think we should do with the attacker? Deport him to an island like Australia? Give him a house and public assistance so he won't have to steal? Or just release him to kill others (he murdered 3 people before the 2 I saw)?
Your enlightenment has no solution, only critique
July 24, 2014, 07:31:58 PM
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/23/arizona-killer-still-alive-an-hour-after-execution-begins
<< Convicted killer "gasped and snorted" as officials attempted to execute him, as lawyers filed an emergency motion to halt the process. >>
I like the yellow sign the guy is holding that says, "no one deserves to die." I'm sure the family of the murdered victims think the same about their loved ones. They didn't deserve to die. The murderer... not so much.
July 24, 2014, 02:47:58 PM
The irony is, all these modern methods of execution were probably conceived of to appease the anti-death penalty crowd. No they moan about how long it takes. Would you be happier if we went back to hanging or firing squads? If so, say so.
We the anti-death penalty crowd would only be happy if the capital "punishment" (death penalty is not a form of punishment, to begin with) was totally abolished. There is no interim state that would be called "happier".
July 24, 2014, 01:49:26 PM
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/23/arizona-killer-still-alive-an-hour-after-execution-begins
<< Convicted killer "gasped and snorted" as officials attempted to execute him, as lawyers filed an emergency motion to halt the process. >>
July 24, 2014, 01:32:07 PM
It's time to return to hanging. It's clear the state doesn't even have the skill to provide an execution that amounts to a botched anesthetic. Aside from lethal injection, hanging is most humane. While the victim dies of asphyxiation, consciousness is lost in a fraction of a second after a complete high spinal cord transaction. Just use the tables, to figure out how far to drop the prisoner after weighing him, put the knot under the left chin and go. Lethal injection CAN be elegant, quick, and painless, but it requires a tiny bit of skill...
July 24, 2014, 01:24:31 PM
So now our nation has regressed from a modern, progressive country to a middle ages country where we not only have to execute people but we also have to torture them in the process. Nobody can tell me that they don't know how to execute people but they may be dysfunctional in Arizona where they have the likes of Joe Arpaio, who probably would have been run out of the old west, who treats prisoners like serfs that owed a debt to the vicaire in the dark ages. Where he fits I don't know, but it isn't anywhere in America of the free. It is more likely in about 13th century France or Spain where they treated prisoners like this and tortured many people as well as executed them. Not only are the police shooting people down in the US now in a wholesale manner but prisoners are also dying at a record rate in prison. Now they are torturing them in an act that ends in death. Maybe a sign of the cross for both the people that do this and the ones who are the recipients is in order!
July 24, 2014, 01:14:05 PM
Why do we give medals to people that kill in the name of "honour"
Then kill those that kill in the heat of emotion?
I suppose if this man killed the person that was in the middle of raping his daughter this would be an awesome out come as well?
I assume when you say "medals to people that kill in the name of 'honour'" that you are talking about military. Being in the military myself I will tell you that there is a huge difference in killing an enemy combatant to achieve a successful mission, to protect yourself or others and what this idiotic low-life did by killing two innocent people in cold blood. A huge difference.
July 24, 2014, 12:58:14 PM
The irony is, all these modern methods of execution were probably conceived of to appease the anti-death penalty crowd. No they moan about how long it takes. Would you be happier if we went back to hanging or firing squads? If so, say so.
July 24, 2014, 12:47:25 PM
I don't think this is going to change.
it's just a fact. The threat of death reduces the criminality rate in the US.
It should be implemented in EU to.
it's just a fact. The threat of death reduces the criminality rate in the US.
It should be implemented in EU to.
As I know, there were studies that claim that the threat of death penalty doesn't reduce criminality rates. It is the inevitability of punishment that does (and not necessarily of death penalty). To avoid futile discussion, let's compare numbers of willful killings in the EU and the US (per unit population indeed).
Anyone got these figures?
A mad person won't stop killing just because of a death threat. For example, there used to be a famous serial killer in the Ukraine who got off on killing people.
Quote
No state has the right to kill its citizens, having said that, think I'd prefer the firing squad than choking to death slowly for 2 hours.
Almost seems like they're putting down an animal
Almost seems like they're putting down an animal
A firing squad is way more humane.
Quote
Quote
As a physician I've spent time trying to undue the damage that assholes like this cause. The only cruel and unusual punishment is the agonizing wait the victim's families have to endure. I say run him over with a car a couple times for good measure.
Why do we give medals to people that kill in the name of "honour"Then kill those that kill in the heat of emotion?
The state or politicians traditionally got into power trough violence. In order to stay in power, they need violence - because their words of mouth are not strong enough.
In one situation people kill and get medals, you are right. They usually have a lot of problems to adapt to the non-killer life after coming back to the US. Anyway they get medals because they did it in favour of a small interest group, who gains more profits and powers trough their actions.
July 24, 2014, 11:26:33 AM
As a physician I've spent time trying to undue the damage that assholes like this cause. The only cruel and unusual punishment is the agonizing wait the victim's families have to endure. I say run him over with a car a couple times for good measure.
Why do we give medals to people that kill in the name of "honour"
Then kill those that kill in the heat of emotion?
I suppose if this man killed the person that was in the middle of raping his daughter this would be an awesome out come as well?
July 24, 2014, 11:19:21 AM
I don't think this is going to change.
it's just a fact. The threat of death reduces the criminality rate in the US.
It should be implemented in EU to.
it's just a fact. The threat of death reduces the criminality rate in the US.
It should be implemented in EU to.
As I know, there were studies that claim that the threat of death penalty doesn't reduce criminality rates. It is the inevitability of punishment that does (and not necessarily of death penalty). To avoid futile discussion, let's compare numbers of willful killings in the EU and the US (per unit population indeed).
Anyone got these figures?
July 24, 2014, 11:16:27 AM
I don't think this is going to change.
it's just a fact. The threat of death reduces the criminality rate in the US.
It should be implemented in EU to.
it's just a fact. The threat of death reduces the criminality rate in the US.
It should be implemented in EU to.
July 24, 2014, 09:55:04 AM
No state has the right to kill its citizens, having said that, think I'd prefer the firing squad than choking to death slowly for 2 hours.
Almost seems like they're putting down an animal
Almost seems like they're putting down an animal
July 24, 2014, 08:46:29 AM
For me this is really horrible things to hear, really shocked.
I'm from Europe and here we don't have death penalty already half century and consider this as civilization progress.
I guess in America is different mentality and culture but still I really hope they will also stop with this and change their low.
I am not pro death penalty myself, but Europe shares some of the blame in this. If they continued to export the proper drugs for executions they wouldn't have to mix their own experimental cocktails to execute people in the US, possibly resulting in incidents like this. If you notice this kind of incident is increasingly common since the drug export ban from Europe. I'm from Europe and here we don't have death penalty already half century and consider this as civilization progress.
I guess in America is different mentality and culture but still I really hope they will also stop with this and change their low.
EU imposes strict controls on 'execution drug' exports www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-16281016
July 24, 2014, 08:26:22 AM
It's crazy to think that in this day and age, science has still not come up with an efficient (and humane?) way to kill a human being 
I think instead of using experimental drugs, it would be better to go back to old but reliable ways like beheading. It's messy on the outside but at least death is almost instantaneous.
I think instead of using experimental drugs, it would be better to go back to old but reliable ways like beheading. It's messy on the outside but at least death is almost instantaneous.
July 24, 2014, 07:30:31 AM
I assumed most bitcoiners held libertarian beliefs so it's interesting to see the responses in this thread.
And here you go!
Personally, I would strongly insist on death penalty abolition. And the primary reason is not the possibility of executing an innocent one (but this would suffice to ban this form of "punishment"), but the guilt of society in raising a villain. Humans are social beings, and murderers don't come to us from outer space. Putting to death even a proven serial killer means avoiding responsibility on the society part.
July 24, 2014, 06:59:44 AM
For me this is really horrible things to hear, really shocked.
I'm from Europe and here we don't have death penalty already half century and consider this as civilization progress.
I guess in America is different mentality and culture but still I really hope they will also stop with this and change their low.
I'm from Europe and here we don't have death penalty already half century and consider this as civilization progress.
I guess in America is different mentality and culture but still I really hope they will also stop with this and change their low.
July 24, 2014, 06:47:44 AM
As a physician I've spent time trying to undue the damage that assholes like this cause. The only cruel and unusual punishment is the agonizing wait the victim's families have to endure. I say run him over with a car a couple times for good measure.
July 24, 2014, 06:43:01 AM
Witness to a 2-hour Arizona execution: Joseph Wood gasped before he died
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jul/24/witness-arizona-execution-joseph-wood-died
<< Inside the chamber, I counted 660 gulps. The priest's watch counted 117 minutes. The death penalty was not supposed to go like this. >>
July 24, 2014, 04:16:23 AM
I assumed most bitcoiners held libertarian beliefs so it's interesting to see the responses in this thread.
July 24, 2014, 03:05:53 AM
Fuck him.. He murdered two people. Who cares if he suffered!
July 24, 2014, 03:05:28 AM
Whether they're guilty or not, if they've given up or been captured then you're just an asshole for wanting to kill them.
July 24, 2014, 03:04:26 AM
July 24, 2014, 03:01:07 AM
To me it doesn't matter.
July 24, 2014, 03:00:24 AM
Those where then and notice how I said
In just the last 5 years criminal science has made a drastic leap. There are very few convictions of innocent men now a days. It would have made more sense if this debate had happened 10 years ago.
I think executions are perfectly OK I do not understand why people are so against them. If there is sufficient evidence for their conviction and the crime is deserving out it. They should die and who gives AF if they suffer for 10 minutes did there victims not suffer, are their family members still not suffering. Humans have been executing people since the beginning of time why did we just start beginning to think that we should no longer do it. 
In just the last 5 years criminal science has made a drastic leap. There are very few convictions of innocent men now a days. It would have made more sense if this debate had happened 10 years ago.
July 24, 2014, 02:49:26 AM
I think executions are perfectly OK I do not understand why people are so against them. If there is sufficient evidence for their conviction and the crime is deserving out it. They should die and who gives AF if they suffer for 10 minutes did there victims not suffer, are their family members still not suffering. Humans have been executing people since the beginning of time why did we just start beginning to think that we should no longer do it.
It's quite simple why people are against it petestheman, what if you're wrong? There have been a number of cases I can probably just google and find on the first page of people being executed and then it turns out years later after their deaths they were innocent.
You don't fuck around with someones life just because you're angry and want to take revenge, it's the height of arrogance and a crime in itself.
July 24, 2014, 02:44:30 AM
I think executions are perfectly OK I do not understand why people are so against them. If there is sufficient evidence for their conviction and the crime is deserving out it. They should die and who gives AF if they suffer for 10 minutes did there victims not suffer, are their family members still not suffering. Humans have been executing people since the beginning of time why did we just start beginning to think that we should no longer do it.
July 24, 2014, 01:52:19 AM
The article fails to mention that he was sedated the whole time. Aka sleeping. He was snoring. Not gasping for air.
Either way, the dude murdered two people in cold blood. I would give zero shits if he spent the last minutes of his life suffering. Deserves every bit of it.
Either way, the dude murdered two people in cold blood. I would give zero shits if he spent the last minutes of his life suffering. Deserves every bit of it.
July 24, 2014, 01:14:45 AM
Too bad it only took two hours. He should have suffered more for what he did.
Happy now?
Happy now?
You're a monster!
There ya go.
July 24, 2014, 01:03:50 AM
Too bad it only took two hours. He should have suffered more for what he did.
Happy now?
Happy now?
July 24, 2014, 01:02:43 AM
Quote
Wood and his 29-year-old ex-girlfriend, Debbie Dietz, had been involved in a turbulent relationship for 5 years, which had been marred by numerous breakups and several domestic violent incidents. Debbie was working at a local body shop owned by her family.
On August 7, 1989, Wood walked into the shop and shot Gene Dietz, age 55, in the chest with a .38 calibre revolver, killing him. Gene Dietz's 70-year-old brother was present and tried to stop Wood, but Wood pushed him away and proceeded into another section of the body shop.
Wood went up to Debbie, placed her in some type of hold, and shot her once in the abdomen and once in the chest, killing her.
Wood then fled the building. Two police officers approached Wood and ordered him to drop his weapon. After Wood placed the weapon on the ground, he reached down and picked it up, and pointed it at the officers. The officers fired, striking Wood several times. Wood was transported to a local hospital where he underwent extensive surgery.
On August 7, 1989, Wood walked into the shop and shot Gene Dietz, age 55, in the chest with a .38 calibre revolver, killing him. Gene Dietz's 70-year-old brother was present and tried to stop Wood, but Wood pushed him away and proceeded into another section of the body shop.
Wood went up to Debbie, placed her in some type of hold, and shot her once in the abdomen and once in the chest, killing her.
Wood then fled the building. Two police officers approached Wood and ordered him to drop his weapon. After Wood placed the weapon on the ground, he reached down and picked it up, and pointed it at the officers. The officers fired, striking Wood several times. Wood was transported to a local hospital where he underwent extensive surgery.
There is the mistake. If they would have just let him die from the gunshot wounds it would have been much quicker. Also that cop should have been told he needed to spend more time at the range, very sloppy shooting.
Well done on editing your original reply before anyone called you a monster.
July 24, 2014, 12:49:20 AM
Quote
Wood and his 29-year-old ex-girlfriend, Debbie Dietz, had been involved in a turbulent relationship for 5 years, which had been marred by numerous breakups and several domestic violent incidents. Debbie was working at a local body shop owned by her family.
On August 7, 1989, Wood walked into the shop and shot Gene Dietz, age 55, in the chest with a .38 calibre revolver, killing him. Gene Dietz's 70-year-old brother was present and tried to stop Wood, but Wood pushed him away and proceeded into another section of the body shop.
Wood went up to Debbie, placed her in some type of hold, and shot her once in the abdomen and once in the chest, killing her.
Wood then fled the building. Two police officers approached Wood and ordered him to drop his weapon. After Wood placed the weapon on the ground, he reached down and picked it up, and pointed it at the officers. The officers fired, striking Wood several times. Wood was transported to a local hospital where he underwent extensive surgery.
On August 7, 1989, Wood walked into the shop and shot Gene Dietz, age 55, in the chest with a .38 calibre revolver, killing him. Gene Dietz's 70-year-old brother was present and tried to stop Wood, but Wood pushed him away and proceeded into another section of the body shop.
Wood went up to Debbie, placed her in some type of hold, and shot her once in the abdomen and once in the chest, killing her.
Wood then fled the building. Two police officers approached Wood and ordered him to drop his weapon. After Wood placed the weapon on the ground, he reached down and picked it up, and pointed it at the officers. The officers fired, striking Wood several times. Wood was transported to a local hospital where he underwent extensive surgery.
There is the mistake. If they would have just let him die from the gunshot wounds it would have been much quicker. Also that cop should have been told he needed to spend more time at the range, very sloppy shooting.
July 24, 2014, 12:33:53 AM
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/23/arizona-killer-still-alive-an-hour-after-execution-begins
<< Convicted killer "gasped and snorted" as officials attempted to execute him, as lawyers filed an emergency motion to halt the process. >>
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