Topic: As a protocol Bitcoin isnt worth much (Read 2138 times)

real decentralised, look at knc's data centres :)DDD~~~

Current systems are not decentralised. This is the value of the bitcoin protocol.

The analogy I like to make is that the 'block-chain-protocol' was like inventing the postal-service at the turn of the 18th century.  It was a massive improvement over everyone hiring a courier to deliver things.  As a technology it is a great.

But the 'Currency regime of BitCoin' that is built on top of all that tech was like inventing the first chain-letter-pyramid, you know the 'send me a dollar and send 5 copies of this letter too your friends' kind of stuff.  The postal system makes chain-letters possible but chain-letters are a terrible waste of that platform.

It isn't a chargeback.  It just gives the merchant the ability to issue refunds back to the user without assuming it is ok to send it back to the same address.

Think of it like a refund of cash, because Bitcoin is like cash.

Adding a refund option to cryptocurrency is like adding a backdoor for hackers.
It will backfire and if anyone can refund money then you can just wait for you rolex to arrive and revoke the transaction.
On the other hand what will happen if the guy selling the rolex pushes his money to a different account??
Well why not rollback all associated transactions LOL... that will turn cryptocurrency into a complete chaos.

The idea is understandable due to scams but who will you trust for refund?
If that is a bank then the whole idea of cryptocurrency just went down the drain you handed them a backdoor to the currency. Banks would no longer need printers to print money
Nobody should be allowed to refund at the protocol level. If you do someone has power/advantage and will abuse it.

You will need escrow type of services just like certificate authorities who sell trust, if they lose trust then their business is worthless. They are popping up as we speak.
Ofcourse banks could fill this gap by turning into crypto-escrow trust providers. Doing a good job will make money flow through them.
In my opinion refunding would kill cryptocurrency if implemented at protocol level.


About the $2000+ why not? It went from $32 -> $2 -> $1100+ in about 1 year. Even 10k this year could be possible.

all fiat currency is deposited centralized in a database at a bank and we have seen crisis where people lost their money because of banks and governments.
you can have all your fiat as cash with you. but if you have cash then you cant do any transactions over a large distance. same with gold, you cant really spend it easily.

with bitcoin you can have your currency with you in your own storage and still can do worldwide transactions. this possibility has never existed and it will change the financial system or at least will people think about the flaws of the current financial system.

i dont see how banks could adopt this. banks want your money to use it for investments, so they will always have your money centralized.

It is mildly amusing that you call yourself an "anarcho libertarian" yet believe that any large corporation would "upgrade" their payment system to have the same features as bitcoin.
There is no incentive because the main advantage bitcoin brings (decentralization) would render them obsolete.

You have started another thread reasoning why bitcoin won't reach a value of x usd because of gold having reached its market cap.
A totally idiotic comparison because we didn't just discover gold a few years ago. It has had a few thousand years of price discovery.

What I see in you is someone who either doesn't really understand how bitcoin works or is desperately hoping for a large price drop to buy in.

Bitpay now supporting bitcoin payment protocol which includes support for refund addresses: http://blog.bitpay.com/2014/02/20/bitpay-launches-payment-protocol-support.html

there are problems with this assumption that existing financial establishments can simply "use the protocol" and carry on like it never happened.

A; large corporations cannot create a decentralised crypto currency, because they cannot control it, therefore cannot account for it. If they did, how could they guarantee the value, it would be subject to the forces of the global market. If they hoarded shares in their own decentralised currency, who would take it seriously?
B; large corporations cannot compete with bitcoin using centralised crypto currencies, because decentralised currencies are far stronger and useful, decentralisation is the almost the entire point of the system.

you have all heard it before, the network effect will carry bitcoin to ATHs. it either is bitcoin, or it's not bitcoin.

Your posts seem like an obvious ploy to go down in infamy.

I have worked on VISA and MasterCard payment protocols(CIS, BASE I and II). I have also certified multiple host to able to join MC/VISA networks. From my personal experience closed loops like MC and VISA will either have to develop something from scratch as their own new thing or adopt bitcoin one way or the other in the future if they want to be part of the game going forward. I know you might think I am pulling it out of my own ass... I say just wait and see it unfold.

Actually I'm pretty sure they can't lower fees. At least, the corporate entities can't, for precisely the reasons you state as 'features.' If they're going to constantly have to worry about freezing accounts whenever some obscure regulation says they have to, and constantly paying someone interest all the time, either the federal reserve or depositors or their wealthy shareholders, there's no way to cut fees. If you actually did any research you'd find that the banks themselves, at least the consumer ones, aren't exactly rolling in the dough. Its the owners, the people who are constantly lending money by buying their stock & debt instruments and thus being able to appoint themselves in high positions to suck up all the excess  profit who get that money. As long as those people are there, financial institutions can't afford to lower costs because they're hardly able to make a profit as it is.

They never had a reason to lower fees, now they do.

They can, they could have decades ago, and they won't.  Gatekeepers of closed proprietary networks never lower fees, they just build higher walls.

Anonymity is actually bad, its good from a anarcho lib perspective but from law enforcement perspective it won't happen. Look at how much the big bitcoin ppl and foundation are trying so hard to explain that bitcoin is not really anonymous they even refused zerocoin.

Fees can be lowerd in the current system once upgraded, no need for bitcoin and account freezing is necessary for law enforcement again.

current systems care nothing about anonymity and low fees or freezing funds

You should read this article. It addresses a lot of what you are complaining about: http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-payment-protocol-makeover/

Bitcoin is electronic cash.  Can you not give a refund to your customers with cash?

Bitcoin is completely unrelated to the current system no amount of upgrading of either Bitcoin or banks' payment methods will ever make one even close to the other. The best the banks could do is provide a similar user interface. Aside from that, nothing. Also, its incredibly easy to refund using Bitcoin - just send the coins back. So in short I have no idea what you're on about.

Yeah other than that whole worldwide democratic-capitalist revolution thing.

Ppl keep saying bitcoin fundamentals is that it Is a protocol that revolutionizes financial transaction, but I completely disagree. Current systems can be upgraded to have the same features and even better with features like refund which is a critical flaw in bitcoin.

Bitcoin is nothing but an anarcho libertarian dream, a group that have always failed in history and yes I am one but I am a realist.

Bitcoin will never go to $2000+