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Topic: ASICs vs BOTNETS (Read 4892 times)

full member
Activity: 160
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TACNAYN - destroyer of worlds
September 27, 2012, 10:43:39 AM
#37
Because they will find something else more profitable. Spamming, pw hash breaking whatever.

Good point.

Sending Nigerian spam is much more profitable than mining say 0.1 BTC a day when ASIC hits !

3 points:
- nigerian spam is surprisingly profitable (maybe not nigerian spam itself, but those kinds of mail do generate money)
- over time, botnet members will reinstall, get new PC's, whatever. so over time less and less PC's will generate BTC in a botnet. the thing right now is that its worth setting up new PC's, but in the future when ASIC's hit, you'd need around 1000 high-end CPU's hashing to get the equivalent of 1 BFL jalapeno. wich brings us to point 3:
- right now, if you have a single high-end GPU running, you'd have about the equivalent of 100 high-end CPU's, say there are 1000 PC's infected and you with your high-end GPU; you'd have a 1/11 share
when you get a single basic ASIC, you'd have the equivalent of 1000 PC's, so you get a 1/2 share of the total BTC mined*

so even though in theory it doesnt cost anything to upkeep that botnet, it will decrease over time in size, and the total share of the network is *way* lower than it is right now
ASIC's will kill botnets

*the numbers are somewhat accurate, but mostly serve as an example
full member
Activity: 163
Merit: 100
September 26, 2012, 11:47:49 AM
#36
Botnets will switch over to litecoin, if they haven't already, given litecoin's more CPU (and therefore botnet) friendly algorithm.

Someone is even trying to get others to write one for him:

http://www.freelancer.com/projects/PHP-C-Programming/Bitcoin-Litecoin-mining-Bot.html


*facepalm*
hero member
Activity: 752
Merit: 500
bitcoin hodler
September 25, 2012, 05:41:50 AM
#35
Botnets will switch over to litecoin, if they haven't already, given litecoin's more CPU (and therefore botnet) friendly algorithm.

rendering litecoin worthless...
hero member
Activity: 840
Merit: 1000
September 25, 2012, 05:02:54 AM
#34
Botnets will switch over to litecoin, if they haven't already, given litecoin's more CPU (and therefore botnet) friendly algorithm.
hero member
Activity: 752
Merit: 500
bitcoin hodler
September 25, 2012, 04:57:30 AM
#33
that's one of the best things on ASIC coming, botnet operators will be f***ed in the a**. The network power will be in hands of people that believe in the project and are willing to pay money for great mining equipment = good people.
donator
Activity: 2772
Merit: 1019
September 07, 2012, 05:31:09 AM
#32
So I've heard there are botnets running lots of hash. Are there any confirmed major hash sources that are botnets?

Based on the hash of the botnets, they are making a killing, and there's nothing we can do about it, however if/when the ASIC rolls out in force, the botnets will no longer be a significant portion of the hash.

This stands to gain (ASIC) players an even higher % of the pie.

What Say Ye? Vote Above

running hash? be a portion of the hash? hash sources?

smoking much hash? :-)
rjk
sr. member
Activity: 448
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1ngldh
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
Bitcoin is a food group.
July 08, 2012, 11:07:19 PM
#30
So I've heard there are botnets running lots of hash. Are there any confirmed major hash sources that are botnets?

Based on the hash of the botnets, they are making a killing, and there's nothing we can do about it, however if/when the ASIC rolls out in force, the botnets will no longer be a significant portion of the hash.

This stands to gain (ASIC) players an even higher % of the pie.

What Say Ye? Vote Above

Botnet mining really isn't that profitable. Not everyone has good gfx cards and you will lose a lot of bots because of all the resources it takes mining 24/7. (Unless you have a afk miner, which cuts profits by a lot)

I've seen a botnet of roughly 2k bots (granted not 100% of bots weren't mining nor a 100% of the time) and he was making about 1btc a day. Not worth the risk IMO. Now if you got a bunch of gaming PCs I could see it turning semi-profitable. But not enough to be worth jail time.

2k bots... tiny botnet

hell... i know where to buy 2k bots for less than $100... that doesnt even constitute a botnet. Thats like a botstring.
legendary
Activity: 1274
Merit: 1000
July 08, 2012, 10:51:22 PM
#29
So I've heard there are botnets running lots of hash. Are there any confirmed major hash sources that are botnets?

Based on the hash of the botnets, they are making a killing, and there's nothing we can do about it, however if/when the ASIC rolls out in force, the botnets will no longer be a significant portion of the hash.

This stands to gain (ASIC) players an even higher % of the pie.

What Say Ye? Vote Above

Botnet mining really isn't that profitable. Not everyone has good gfx cards and you will lose a lot of bots because of all the resources it takes mining 24/7. (Unless you have a afk miner, which cuts profits by a lot)

I've seen a botnet of roughly 2k bots (granted not 100% of bots weren't mining nor a 100% of the time) and he was making about 1btc a day. Not worth the risk IMO. Now if you got a bunch of gaming PCs I could see it turning semi-profitable. But not enough to be worth jail time.

2k bots... tiny botnet
hero member
Activity: 686
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Wat
July 08, 2012, 07:45:07 PM
#28
1. Create botnet out of ASIC machines.
2.$$$Profit ?
full member
Activity: 140
Merit: 100
July 08, 2012, 07:35:48 PM
#27
So I've heard there are botnets running lots of hash. Are there any confirmed major hash sources that are botnets?

Based on the hash of the botnets, they are making a killing, and there's nothing we can do about it, however if/when the ASIC rolls out in force, the botnets will no longer be a significant portion of the hash.

This stands to gain (ASIC) players an even higher % of the pie.

What Say Ye? Vote Above

Botnet mining really isn't that profitable. Not everyone has good gfx cards and you will lose a lot of bots because of all the resources it takes mining 24/7. (Unless you have a afk miner, which cuts profits by a lot)

I've seen a botnet of roughly 2k bots (granted not 100% of bots weren't mining nor a 100% of the time) and he was making about 1btc a day. Not worth the risk IMO. Now if you got a bunch of gaming PCs I could see it turning semi-profitable. But not enough to be worth jail time.
sr. member
Activity: 266
Merit: 250
June 30, 2012, 04:26:37 AM
#26
To be honest I don't really care where the hashes come from, I just think the more hashes the better security the network has.
Mystery miner is my only exception, though, because they have 1.3TH and don't accept transactions into their blocks, making just over 1/10 of all Bitcoin blocks without transactions.

How is that even possible?
It is possible with some modifications to the code, I'm not too sure how.
Have a look at this thread:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/wonder-who-this-solominer-is-8862169-67634
Though it looks like recently he has stopped?
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/what-happened-to-the-mystery-miner-87185

Somone on the second thread made a good point that the network hashrate has stayed the same even though he has stopped, so he's probably in a pool. Deepbit's block solving rate also went up.
vip
Activity: 571
Merit: 504
I still <3 u Satoshi
June 29, 2012, 09:49:09 PM
#25
To be honest I don't really care where the hashes come from, I just think the more hashes the better security the network has.
Mystery miner is my only exception, though, because they have 1.3TH and don't accept transactions into their blocks, making just over 1/10 of all Bitcoin blocks without transactions.

How is that even possible?
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 500
June 25, 2012, 04:27:53 PM
#24
what should botnets stop from using gpus, fpgas or asics .... just a matter of time and skills Smiley (with i don't have ...()
legendary
Activity: 3472
Merit: 1722
June 25, 2012, 01:01:31 PM
#23
I wasn't hating because they were mining (it increases network security), but I was hating because of the principle of the thing, where the botnet owner has commandeered the resources of an unsuspecting user and is using them for his own gain, frequently at the cost of the user directly. The operator itself is nothing more than a lazy slob that can't be bothered to make an honest living.

Ok, I get your point.

But I still think some users do deserve being taken advantage of. Take HF skids for example, begging for t00lz to h4x det fb acc, what could be wrong with infecting them Wink Not that I'd encourage that but I'm not against either. As for the operator most of the stuff they do can't be considered 'making an honest living' but not all of them are lazy slobs (those who design them are quite clever), only those who buy tools without basic knowledge of how networks and Windows works.
rjk
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
1ngldh
June 25, 2012, 12:13:22 PM
#22
I'm not sure how you were able to confuse "envy" with "hate", but whatever.

Why the hate then?

If BFL actually delivers products they announced with those specs and prices, no longer will anyone bother with using their botnets for mining bitcoins (unnecessary increased risk of detection, even after taking necessary precautions).
I wasn't hating because they were mining (it increases network security), but I was hating because of the principle of the thing, where the botnet owner has commandeered the resources of an unsuspecting user and is using them for his own gain, frequently at the cost of the user directly. The operator itself is nothing more than a lazy slob that can't be bothered to make an honest living.
legendary
Activity: 3472
Merit: 1722
June 25, 2012, 12:08:59 PM
#21
I'm not sure how you were able to confuse "envy" with "hate", but whatever.

Why the hate then?

If BFL actually delivers products they announced with those specs and prices, no longer will anyone bother with using their botnets for mining bitcoins (unnecessary increased risk of detection, even after taking necessary precautions).
sr. member
Activity: 266
Merit: 250
June 25, 2012, 12:02:42 PM
#20
To be honest I don't really care where the hashes come from, I just think the more hashes the better security the network has.
Mystery miner is my only exception, though, because they have 1.3TH and don't accept transactions into their blocks, making just over 1/10 of all Bitcoin blocks without transactions.
rjk
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
1ngldh
June 25, 2012, 11:42:08 AM
#19
Botnet operators need to be strung up on wires by their toenails and beaten with red-hot pokers.

You seem to be envy them?  Grin
I'm not sure how you were able to confuse "envy" with "hate", but whatever.
legendary
Activity: 3472
Merit: 1722
June 25, 2012, 11:06:12 AM
#18
Botnet operators need to be strung up on wires by their toenails and beaten with red-hot pokers.

You seem to envy them?  Grin
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1000
June 25, 2012, 09:46:27 AM
#17
Botnet operators need to be strung up on wires by their toenails and beaten with red-hot pokers.

Quote of the day Grin

Only one mix up:

Botnet operators need to be strung up on wires by their red-hot pokers and beaten with....  Wink
legendary
Activity: 938
Merit: 1000
What's a GPU?
June 25, 2012, 02:57:58 AM
#16
Botnet operators need to be strung up on wires by their toenails and beaten with red-hot pokers.

Quote of the day Grin
legendary
Activity: 3472
Merit: 1722
June 25, 2012, 02:56:19 AM
#15
So I've heard there are botnets running lots of hash. Are there any confirmed major hash sources that are botnets?

Based on the hash of the botnets, they are making a killing, and there's nothing we can do about it, however if/when the ASIC rolls out in force, the botnets will no longer be a significant portion of the hash.

This stands to gain (ASIC) players an even higher % of the pie.

What Say Ye? Vote Above

There was an AMA on reddit once with a botnet operator who had 13-20GH/s from 12k of bots and estimated that 30% of btc network could be botnets. To what extent is it true? I don't know but already over a year ago people discussed this extensively on deepnet.
legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1000
฿itcoin: Currency of Resistance!
June 24, 2012, 04:08:03 AM
#14

Who wants my BFL Single for 150 Bitcoins?! I sell it now! Never used!


I'll give you 100BTC

No, thanks! 150 BTC including the shipment to your place.
legendary
Activity: 1274
Merit: 1000
June 24, 2012, 03:55:53 AM
#13

Who wants my BFL Single for 150 Bitcoins?! I sell it now! Never used!


I'll give you 100BTC
legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1000
฿itcoin: Currency of Resistance!
June 24, 2012, 12:41:01 AM
#12
ASICs will render everything else obsolete in time but botnets (which are already horribly inefficient) will be killed overnight and that includes other forms of malicious CPU mining (rogue system admins, employees "borrowing" company resources, hacked servers, etc).


@D&T,

I don't want to be rude but (also, don't take me wrong), that was the reason to you to sell "as fast as you can", your BFL Single?!

Look, I do not have any problems with that but! Now I'm thinking that I made a bad, bad business buying this BFL Single these days...

Who wants my BFL Single for 150 Bitcoins?! I sell it now! Never used!

Cheers!
Thiago
legendary
Activity: 1820
Merit: 1000
June 21, 2012, 02:15:57 AM
#11
Where's a legitimate ASIC Thread? I tried starting another in general hardware, but the consensus seems to be to let it die.

Legitimate ASIC thread? That's pretty much an oxymoron at this point. I think people suggested to let your thread die b/c you started off raising questions about BFL's coming ASIC that have been picked over 100x on this board already. There are lots of ASIC threads - check the FPGA subforum. Most of the discussion is about BFL's ASIC, and the threads are full of all kinds of speculation, emoting, and outright BS, but there's good stuff too. So much has been said about it already it's probably best to wade through the existing threads and find specific posts that interest you, then reply to those to get a conversation going.
hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 500
Portland Bitcoin Group Organizer
June 21, 2012, 12:28:58 AM
#10
Where's a legitimate ASIC Thread? I tried starting another in general hardware, but the consensus seems to be to let it die.
staff
Activity: 4242
Merit: 8672
June 19, 2012, 07:54:11 PM
#9
So I've heard there are botnets running lots of hash. Are there any confirmed major hash sources that are botnets?

I heard the space aliens are running lot of hash, but I think John Titor's crew from the future probably has them beat.  Do you think that the invention of quasi-protonic timelike hypercomputers in the upwhen will make the time traveler's advantage decisive or not?
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
June 19, 2012, 07:30:18 PM
#8
Because they will find something else more profitable. Spamming, pw hash breaking whatever.

Good point.

Sending Nigerian spam is much more profitable than mining say 0.1 BTC a day when ASIC hits !
hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 500
June 19, 2012, 07:12:27 PM
#7
Because they will find something else more profitable. Spamming, pw hash breaking whatever.
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
June 19, 2012, 07:08:44 PM
#6
So I've heard there are botnets running lots of hash. Are there any confirmed major hash sources that are botnets?

Based on the hash of the botnets, they are making a killing, and there's nothing we can do about it, however if/when the ASIC rolls out in force, the botnets will no longer be a significant portion of the hash.

This stands to gain (ASIC) players an even higher % of the pie.

What Say Ye? Vote Above

I still don't get it : why would they stop hashing when it costs them a grand total of 0 to keep going ?

Inconvenience perhaps ?
hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 500
June 19, 2012, 07:00:41 PM
#5
Both can be broken just as easily by protocol tweaks.. Bip16 took a very large botnet out for months.
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250
Inactive
June 19, 2012, 06:18:45 PM
#4


Overpriced ASICs have a much greater risk to mining profitability than botnets.
donator
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1079
Gerald Davis
June 19, 2012, 05:53:15 PM
#3
ASICs will render everything else obsolete in time but botnets (which are already horribly inefficient) will be killed overnight and that includes other forms of malicious CPU mining (rogue system admins, employees "borrowing" company resources, hacked servers, etc).
rjk
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
1ngldh
June 19, 2012, 05:48:23 PM
#2
Botnet operators need to be strung up on wires by their toenails and beaten with red-hot pokers.
legendary
Activity: 1274
Merit: 1000
June 19, 2012, 05:17:01 PM
#1
So I've heard there are botnets running lots of hash. Are there any confirmed major hash sources that are botnets?

Based on the hash of the botnets, they are making a killing, and there's nothing we can do about it, however if/when the ASIC rolls out in force, the botnets will no longer be a significant portion of the hash.

This stands to gain (ASIC) players an even higher % of the pie.

What Say Ye? Vote Above
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