[ASK] About Ledger and Transaction Speed Bitcoin

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Quote from: PytagoraZ on January 14, 2024, 10:31:20 PM

So theoretically bitcoin transactions can't be accelerated any more? When compared to altcoins that can be instant like doge or trx. Honestly, I don't know about the concept of pow, pos or anything else, I just hope that in the future bitcoin can be instant like altcoins.

I also read in the advertisement under the first forum post that bitcoin is still in beta status, does this mean that in the future bitcoin can be upgraded to be more sophisticated?

It can, but high unlikely because you need to change the protocol, vast majority won't agree with that. Reduce the block time will increase the possibility of getting attacked with double spend and 51% attack. That's why there are many people fork Bitcoin e.g. BSV, BCH, BTG etc because they want to create their own Bitcoin which they call it improvisation.

It's no longer beta status according to achow101, I believe Bitcoin will always be improved to face or prevent a threat that could harm the ecosystem from time to time.

Quote from: achow101 on September 22, 2021, 12:27:09 PM

Quote from: vjudeu on September 22, 2021, 08:04:26 AM

It is no longer experimental, because the latest version is "22.0" instead of "0.22.0", the leading zero is missing

The version number is not an indicator of experimental or beta status.

Bitcoin Core still (intentionally) contains a line that says "this software is experimental". The line saying that Bitcoin Core is beta software was removed in 2014.

PytagoraZ

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Jolly? I think I've heard that name before. hmm

Quote from: SFR10 on January 14, 2024, 11:14:08 AM

Quote from: PytagoraZ on January 13, 2024, 02:59:05 PM

In my opinion, bitcoin transactions are very slow, because they take around 10 minutes

Bitcoin transactions are happening almost instantly, but the 10 minutes that you were referring to is for the confirmation time ^{[or rather the average time between each block]}... Depending on their fees and the network load, it might take you longer before you get the first confirmation.

Quote from: PytagoraZ on January 13, 2024, 02:59:05 PM

Can bitcoin transactions be accelerated in the future?

Regarding its speed, it can happen temporarily when there's a huge inflow of miners or rather hash rates, but because of the difficulty adjustments ^{[every 2016 blocks (roughly 2 weeks)]}, it wouldn't last very long.

So theoretically bitcoin transactions can't be accelerated any more? When compared to altcoins that can be instant like doge or trx. Honestly, I don't know about the concept of pow, pos or anything else, I just hope that in the future bitcoin can be instant like altcoins.

I also read in the advertisement under the first forum post that bitcoin is still in beta status, does this mean that in the future bitcoin can be upgraded to be more sophisticated?

SFR10

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Quote from: PytagoraZ on January 13, 2024, 02:59:05 PM

In my opinion, bitcoin transactions are very slow, because they take around 10 minutes

Bitcoin transactions are happening almost instantly, but the 10 minutes that you were referring to is for the confirmation time ^{[or rather the average time between each block]}... Depending on their fees and the network load, it might take you longer before you get the first confirmation.

Quote from: PytagoraZ on January 13, 2024, 02:59:05 PM

Can bitcoin transactions be accelerated in the future?

Regarding its speed, it can happen temporarily when there's a huge inflow of miners or rather hash rates, but because of the difficulty adjustments ^{[every 2016 blocks (roughly 2 weeks)]}, it wouldn't last very long.

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Quote from: PytagoraZ on January 14, 2024, 08:28:45 AM

Yes, I understand what you mean. Maybe in the future 10 TB storage will become commonplace and not be a problem.

I'm not thinking in TBs on a 100 year time scale. Since this heavy IBM disk, we went up 1 order of magnitude in storage capacity per decade, and lost (almost) 1 order of magnitude per decade in weight. Give it a few more decades and we're counting in PB instead of TB.

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Jolly? I think I've heard that name before. hmm

Quote from: LoyceV on January 14, 2024, 03:53:06 AM

Quote from: PytagoraZ on January 13, 2024, 02:59:05 PM

is it logical if the recording has reached 100 or 200 years, and how big will the bitcoin ledger data be in the future?

In 1956, a 3.75 MB hard drive (literally) weighed a ton. That shows it's pointless to worry about data storage limitations a century from now.

Yes, I understand what you mean. Maybe in the future 10 TB storage will become commonplace and not be a problem.

Honestly, I also want to provide feedback on other members' answers, but I still don't understand Bitcoin and blockchain. Lol.
But thank you all for your comments

LoyceV

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Quote from: PytagoraZ on January 13, 2024, 02:59:05 PM

is it logical if the recording has reached 100 or 200 years, and how big will the bitcoin ledger data be in the future?

In 1956, a 3.75 MB hard drive (literally) weighed a ton. That shows it's pointless to worry about data storage limitations a century from now.

Zaguru12

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Quote from: PytagoraZ on January 13, 2024, 02:59:05 PM

We know that all bitcoin transactions will be recorded in the ledger and the data will get bigger day by day, is it logical if the recording has reached 100 or 200 years, and how big will the bitcoin ledger data be in the future?

The bitcoin blockchain is currently above 550GB as storage which is somewhat still fair because it could have been more if we go by the increasing the block space or limit like what many suggested for bitcoin to be scalable. Increasing the block size will be a major challenge to running of nodes because the blocks will mostly be filled with spams like ordinals or even dust transactions which will erroneously increase the capacity to store the block chain. One thing I think the devs of bitcoin network will be looking to solve is how to entirely stop or Block the storage of BRC20 tokens on the network.

Quote from: ObscurePen on January 13, 2024, 09:21:39 PM

Quote from: PX-Z on January 13, 2024, 07:57:12 PM

Many will understand your concern of having that 10 minutes confirmation time, but that is just an average before a new block is found and developers won't just update because of this and for a reason of it's actually technically possible (i hope im wrong). But instead they could at least extend higher storage size instead of 2 1 mb for every block for more transaction getting catered in every block.

This has been done already. It is called Bitcoin Cash.

I don’t think bitcoin cash was any solution to bitcoin, the fork didn’t get the attention they wanted mainly because the scalability problem they tried to solve actually lead to a weaker system than bitcoin it self because of the little power need for mining of block which could actually make threats like 51% attacks much easier

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Quote from: PytagoraZ on January 13, 2024, 02:59:05 PM

even though currently there is LN but in my opinion it is not the right solution, especially since there are people who say LN is not bitcoin because it is different from the main bitcoin network

While LN may or may not be "the" solution for cheaper fees(it still generally sucks today), LN transactions settle to the main Bitcoin ledger at some point, so it ends up actually being on the "main bitcoin network".

But anyway, safe to assume that looking for a strong solution is technically difficult. So for now we're stuck with CEXs, and WBTC.

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Quote from: PytagoraZ on January 13, 2024, 02:59:05 PM

We know that all bitcoin transactions will be recorded in the ledger and the data will get bigger day by day, is it logical if the recording has reached 100 or 200 years, and how big will the bitcoin ledger data be in the future?

In my opinion, bitcoin transactions are very slow, because they take around 10 minutes, even though currently there is LN but in my opinion it is not the right solution, especially since there are people who say LN is not bitcoin because it is different from the main bitcoin network. Can bitcoin transactions be accelerated in the future? I think Bitcoin needs to accelerate with increasingly sophisticated technological developments, and transaction speed will probably become a vital need in the future

The future size of the Bitcoin ledger is too complex to anticipate; in short, making such a prediction is, in my opinion, impossible. Understanding the underlying variables and probable conditions, on the other hand, can help us create more accurate predictions.

It is also critical to understand and remember that not every node is required to download the whole Bitcoin blockchain or to participate in the network. Other participants, such as light nodes, merely download transaction headers, lowering storage requirements dramatically.

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Quote from: PytagoraZ on January 13, 2024, 02:59:05 PM

We know that all bitcoin transactions will be recorded in the ledger and the data will get bigger day by day, is it logical if the recording has reached 100 or 200 years, and how big will the bitcoin ledger data be in the future?

Reading your title, I thought you are discussing about Ledger hardware wallet but reading this sentence, I knew you want to discuss about Bitcoin blockchain and its public ledger, not Ledger wallet.

Quote

In my opinion, bitcoin transactions are very slow, because they take around 10 minutes

There are three components in a pyramid, Time, Scalability and Security. Developers struggle to choose 2 or 3 as their main priorities because they can not maximize all three for a same blockchain.

I agree that Bitcoin block time is too long, 10 minutes and current design makes its transaction fee is expensive but one thing I really like about its blockchain, Security. You can not find better blockchain with security like Bitcoin blockchain.

https://howmanyconfs.com/

ObscurePen

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Bitcoin has gone through a few upgrades in the past to address the issue of higher transaction times and fees.
In 2017 there was the SegWit upgrade which shifted the way transactions were structured in the blocks increasing the 'space' or capacity of each block.
The Taproot upgrade reduces the size of multisig transactions by combining multiple inputs into one before sending to the blockchain, again improving transaction times.

These upgrades both, critically, preserve the PoW architecture of the Bitcoin network which is decentralised and more secure than compared to PoS which is what many altcoins utilise. A notable one is Ethereum which recently changed their PoW to PoS to reduce gas fees. Here is a link for that long-debated topic : https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/megathread-the-long-known-pow-vs-pos-debate-5387588

But you are right further upgrades to improve transaction times and reduce transaction fees can't come quickly enough

Quote from: PX-Z on January 13, 2024, 07:57:12 PM

Many will understand your concern of having that 10 minutes confirmation time, but that is just an average before a new block is found and developers won't just update because of this and for a reason of it's actually technically possible (i hope im wrong). But instead they could at least extend higher storage size instead of 2 1 mb for every block for more transaction getting catered in every block.

This has been done already. It is called Bitcoin Cash.

PX-Z

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Many will understand your concern of having that 10 minutes confirmation time, but that is just an average before a new block is found and developers won't just update because of this and for a reason of it's actually technically possible (i hope im wrong). But instead they could at least extend higher storage size instead of 2 1 mb for every block for more transaction getting catered in every block.

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Quote from: wallet4bitcoin on January 13, 2024, 04:02:58 PM

Quote from: PytagoraZ on January 13, 2024, 02:59:05 PM

We know that all bitcoin transactions will be recorded in the ledger and the data will get bigger day by day, is it logical if the recording has reached 100 or 200 years, and how big will the bitcoin ledger data be in the future?

In my opinion, bitcoin transactions are very slow, because they take around 10 minutes, even though currently there is LN but in my opinion it is not the right solution, especially since there are people who say LN is not bitcoin because it is different from the main bitcoin network. Can bitcoin transactions be accelerated in the future? I think Bitcoin needs to accelerate with increasingly sophisticated technological developments, and transaction speed will probably become a vital need in the future

The Bitcoin developers should work on an upgrade just like ethereum is working on upgrades to find possible means of processing transactions faster than initial design time.

I think the Ethereum community is anxious to perform the upgrade due to the significant development of various projects on the Blockchain, leading to slow transactions and high fees for Ethereum coins. Definitely, the Bitcoin community would make adjustments soon, but it seems that awareness regarding the need for this upgrade hasn't fully circulated. I hope necessary actions will be taken for a more effective upgrade.

wallet4bitcoin

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Quote from: PytagoraZ on January 13, 2024, 02:59:05 PM

We know that all bitcoin transactions will be recorded in the ledger and the data will get bigger day by day, is it logical if the recording has reached 100 or 200 years, and how big will the bitcoin ledger data be in the future?

In my opinion, bitcoin transactions are very slow, because they take around 10 minutes, even though currently there is LN but in my opinion it is not the right solution, especially since there are people who say LN is not bitcoin because it is different from the main bitcoin network. Can bitcoin transactions be accelerated in the future? I think Bitcoin needs to accelerate with increasingly sophisticated technological developments, and transaction speed will probably become a vital need in the future

This has actually been a concern to me even thogugh I do not see it from a technical standpoint as I am no developer but looking intrinsically, it will not be ideal to have Bitcoin continue with this degree of drag and possibly increase it over the years without an upgrade.

The Bitcoin developers should work on an upgrade just like ethereum is working on upgrades to find possible means of processing transactions faster than initial design time.

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Quote from: PytagoraZ on January 13, 2024, 02:59:05 PM

We know that all bitcoin transactions will be recorded in the ledger and the data will get bigger day by day, is it logical if the recording has reached 100 or 200 years, and how big will the bitcoin ledger data be in the future?

The blockchain size has just gotten over 500gb and this is 15 years down the line. Majority of nodes can use a 2tb or 4tb hard drive which doesn't cost much and be able to store all block data till the foreseeable future.

Quote from: PytagoraZ on January 13, 2024, 02:59:05 PM

Can bitcoin transactions be accelerated in the future? I think Bitcoin needs to accelerate with increasingly sophisticated technological developments, and transaction speed will probably become a vital need in the future

Some changes can be made at the protocol level depending on how the adoption of Bitcoin changes.

PytagoraZ

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Jolly? I think I've heard that name before. hmm

We know that all bitcoin transactions will be recorded in the ledger and the data will get bigger day by day, is it logical if the recording has reached 100 or 200 years, and how big will the bitcoin ledger data be in the future?

In my opinion, bitcoin transactions are very slow, because they take around 10 minutes, even though currently there is LN but in my opinion it is not the right solution, especially since there are people who say LN is not bitcoin because it is different from the main bitcoin network. Can bitcoin transactions be accelerated in the future? I think Bitcoin needs to accelerate with increasingly sophisticated technological developments, and transaction speed will probably become a vital need in the future

Topic: [ASK] About Ledger and Transaction Speed ​Bitcoin (Read 161 times)

Topic: [ASK] About Ledger and Transaction Speed Bitcoin (Read 161 times)