Asset multiples at highest since two previous global crashes

playboy654

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Quote from: jjjfff on May 01, 2019, 06:11:57 PM

"Bitcoin is a bubble". O really?! What is this then?!

yes you are right I also expecting that moment to be changed here from this situation so it will be like giving the confidence about the Drop when happening to the long time so I think it will definitely been happening in the future.

buwaytress

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I think we can establish that a bubble is no longer a bad thing (using the charts you've just shown anyway, bubbles are perfectly normal). This only is no longer a case of a single-burst bubble like Dutch tulips, just the cyclical bubbles likened to that of real estate and tech stocks (the latter actually only 2 decades older than Bitcoin so not, I would think, "mature" enough in comparison to almost anything else!).

As much of a maximalist I'd like to be though, I'm not sure it's possible to just continue in these cyclical parabolas for Bitcoin. Unless we keep measuring it in USD, of course, in which case, sure, we can keep those bubbles swelling for as long as USD keeps getting printed and its value gets less and less.

coinplus

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It is no secret that stock market is swelling up a bit once again. Moreover, the discussion should not be if it will fall because this is stock market and it falls all the time but the discussion should be how far it will fall.

I feel like it will fall only a bit and not as much as people think it will fall. That is why this increase is not that big of a deal since if you consider inflation as well that we had over the course of previous 2 years it was only normal that prices would go up even higher. Even if it falls a bit than it will have a room to grow even bigger (some stocks go down, money goes to other stocks that go up).

Nonetheless, if I am wrong and if the prices and market cap is too much than we are going to see another big 2008 like drop that could help get bitcoins name out there.

BitHodler

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Quote from: BlueStackz on May 04, 2019, 01:14:05 PM

I don't think there is anyone that is here with the purpose of not making money, anyone here has it in mind that they are here to make money and that's how it is.

The majority of the people here do yeah, but there are also a lot who use the speculative nature to increase their Bitcoin holdings and not so much their fiat holdings. Trading altcoins is part of that process too, and big time so.

Overall, it's safe to say that everything comes down to value appreciation of Bitcoin, regardless of what you're doing. If no one believed the price would increase we would be utilizing our time and fiat much differently.

I don't mind going through Bitcoin's cycles at all with how this is part of the revolution we're experiencing as we speak. It doesn't happen all that often where we witness the emergence of a new and disruptive asset class. Enjoy it.

alyssa85

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Quote from: 1Referee on May 03, 2019, 04:50:35 PM

Quote from: el kaka22 on May 03, 2019, 01:54:31 AM

Now stock market does look like it increased way more than it should but at least its a really legit system and even if it falls it can rebound back easily. That is why they are not similar to previous two bubbles.

As long as money on its own isn't worth much due to the very low interest rates and excessive money creation, stocks will very likely continue to go up.

People rightfully expected the US stock market to crash, and for a short while it looked like it was doing so, but it rebounded and kept going up since then. Eventually the market will implode, but when that eventually is remains to be seen. It could easily continue pumping for a few more years. I rather not go short on any US stock unless the underlying company itself turns shit.

Bitcoin compared to most stocks is such a steal, but that's not how most traditional bobos look at Bitcoin. It's firstly too risky in their book, and they still aren't comfortable buying into it.

The market rebounded because they were convinced that the Fed would cut interest rates later this year (saving market participants and corporate borrowers just as they have to roll over their debt). But it now looks like the Fed is going to hold and may even raise rates later this year (if they're going to raise rates they have to do it this year, next year is election year and they will not want to do anything that is seen as political especially as Trump loves to blame the Fed for everything).

BlueStackz

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Quote from: GregH37 on May 03, 2019, 06:44:21 AM

Quote from: okala on May 02, 2019, 02:19:27 AM

Whales will always call bitcoin a bubble cause they can never understand it operations like the centralized currencies and business where they make which ever choice the wish in other to make gains. I have said it before if bitcoin is a bubble it should have busted long ago.

I am sure that wherever satoshi is by now, he will be angry with all these people who are making Bitcoin look like a bubble, because the intention of the creation of cryptocurrency has already been shifted, the senseless whales saying rubbish are the major cause why it looks like a bubble to some of you.

Take investment and profit out of Bitcoin and see if the system will not perform to its fool function, the system is developed to assist us in overcoming the financial transactions crisis we have facing through fiat and the third party people controlling it, but the ingrates has turned the system upside down, but watch very soon, bitcoin will take its shape and will no longer be a bubble to you.

Even bitcoin itself looks like it has a middleman and the miners are the middlemen in the case of cryptocurrency. Yes the money gets sent, but if miners don't confirm it is not going to arrive in the wallet of whoever is receiving it.

And for being bubble, what do you expect when the price is volatile? Everyone will always try what they can to make money out of it since there is that opportunity to make that money from it. I don't think there is anyone that is here with the purpose of not making money, anyone here has it in mind that they are here to make money and that's how it is.

Bitcotalk

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Quote from: nur rochid on May 03, 2019, 03:55:08 AM

Quote from: Beerwizzard on May 02, 2019, 01:49:12 PM

Quote from: enhu on May 02, 2019, 11:58:21 AM

His style are just picking the ones that are cheaper at the time and hope the company makes it. That is basically holding for years.

No, he is not trading altcoins and ICO tokens lol.
You probably won't believe me but traditional investing works a bit more complicated way rather than just buying some shit and praying for it to rise in price. There are a lot of multiplicators and other indicators with different difficulty that would help you to see if a company is undervalued or not.

right, with the available indicators we can monitor and analyze the company's prospects going forward. certainly a general indicator that can be used, because most people will use it and that's where the global picture looks

He's saying the truth, it is not like iCO's and altcoins that you invest and be hoping that they increase price, these ones are lot of different cause there are lots of factors to look for, things that are going to determine whether the asset you're buying will be worth it in future or not. If you choose to do it like you will do when buying an ICO or altcoins in a cryptocurrency market then you're going to be making a huge mistake.

fiulpro

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By bubble people mean BITCOIN is super volatile, it is because it was designed this way , and everyone who is taking part in this already know all about this process therefore there is nothing that is unusual about Bitcoin being high or low because who are in this already have seen the past price analysis.

Bubbles are not something I would say are unpredictable because we all know what we are getting into. Too much price volatility is already defined by people who controls most of the Bitcoins in the market , the bulls. I won't blame it on Bitcoins , it's controlled by people.

Crypto Girl

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It's blatant that it's a bubble, from what had happened in 2017 and many had loss their money after the bubble burst out. I somehow think it's their fault for being fomo and greed at the same time as they all hope for an instant bucks.

I'm not familiar with either of the two major crashes hence not appropriate to be define in same manner. Currently, I don't see any threat for bitcoin market and comparing real life asset is probably rubbish.

Sithara007

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This just means that people are running out of investment options. A lot of them have money in their bank accounts, but almost all the available assets are over-priced (stocks, real estate, bullion.etc). But keeping the money as such without investing is also not a good option. With the bank interest rates decreasing with every passing year, investing in some asset has become a necessity.

wuvdoll

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Quote from: jjjfff on May 01, 2019, 06:11:57 PM

"Bitcoin is a bubble". O really?! What is this then?!

[im g]https://i.imgur.com/722FFKG.jpg[/img]

Warren Buffet has been doing the same thing for about 50 years now and it has always worked, could it be translated to crypto ?
I doubt so but there is a single slight of hope for that. Dude has been buying stuff that he believes will be around forever, he is involved with geico which is a big insurance company and don't you think people will need insurance forever ?

I think insurance is something that will not be gone in 5-10-50 years and will be here, considering you are basically making free cash for yourself and get paid constantly while only paying out when needed be that is a good business. He did the same thing with coca cola because lets face it everyone keeps on buying coca cola all the time and globally as well, same with Gillette because men will need to shave.

Basically, finding something that will not be a 5-10 year thing and be a 100+ year thing and invest in that. Bitcoin could be that thing but I don't know if I can say it for all other altcoins.

NavI_027

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Quote from: jjjfff on May 01, 2019, 06:11:57 PM

"Bitcoin is a bubble". O really?! What is this then?!

Before, I don't believe thay btc is a bubble but not I realized some things. Now, I agree that btc is a bubble because it expands (like the 2017 ATH) and also pops (the days after that) but wait, I'm not finished yet. In my own perspective, btc is a bubble but an infinite bubble Grin

. I used the term "infinite" because it moves in a cycle, yeah it bursts in a certain time but it recovers once again and expand. See? It moves round and round. Hence, I am no longer afraid of dips even how hard it is because I knew and I believe that someday btc will rise again

.

1Referee

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Quote from: el kaka22 on May 03, 2019, 01:54:31 AM

Now stock market does look like it increased way more than it should but at least its a really legit system and even if it falls it can rebound back easily. That is why they are not similar to previous two bubbles.

As long as money on its own isn't worth much due to the very low interest rates and excessive money creation, stocks will very likely continue to go up.

People rightfully expected the US stock market to crash, and for a short while it looked like it was doing so, but it rebounded and kept going up since then. Eventually the market will implode, but when that eventually is remains to be seen. It could easily continue pumping for a few more years. I rather not go short on any US stock unless the underlying company itself turns shit.

Bitcoin compared to most stocks is such a steal, but that's not how most traditional bobos look at Bitcoin. It's firstly too risky in their book, and they still aren't comfortable buying into it.

carter34

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Quote from: rijaljun on May 01, 2019, 07:32:36 PM

Well, he said so because he might be afraid their investment value will be taken over by Bitcoin industry. Also, Bitcoin is pretty new thing that aims to change everything and that caused shock on people who die hard for fiat and other centralized products. He could say it's a bubble for once again if he want to join Bitcoin community anyway.

I just think that the bubble Frick are those who are jealous more to the success recorded in creating of wealth from bitcoin. I mean those who are fiat frick, not expecting others to get to such level and bitcoin is proving them wrong daily.

BitHodler

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Quote from: GregH37 on May 03, 2019, 06:44:21 AM

I am sure that wherever satoshi is by now, he will be angry with all these people who are making Bitcoin look like a bubble, because the intention of the creation of cryptocurrency has already been shifted, the senseless whales saying rubbish are the major cause why it looks like a bubble to some of you.

Bitcoin's network has grown stronger than ever before because of that, and people more than ever before are motivated to build on top of Bitcoin. Believe it or not, the bubbles we go through are a necessity.

During boring times there is less development going on, less new money entering this system, and more businesses as result of that are forced to sack a part of their employees.

I don't think satoshi is angry at all. If he's still alive, he can make his coins speak for him by dumping the price down. Considering that he's not doing so, it's very likely an indication that he likes being a multi Bitcoin billionaire.

GregH37

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Quote from: okala on May 02, 2019, 02:19:27 AM

Whales will always call bitcoin a bubble cause they can never understand it operations like the centralized currencies and business where they make which ever choice the wish in other to make gains. I have said it before if bitcoin is a bubble it should have busted long ago.

I am sure that wherever satoshi is by now, he will be angry with all these people who are making Bitcoin look like a bubble, because the intention of the creation of cryptocurrency has already been shifted, the senseless whales saying rubbish are the major cause why it looks like a bubble to some of you.

Take investment and profit out of Bitcoin and see if the system will not perform to its fool function, the system is developed to assist us in overcoming the financial transactions crisis we have facing through fiat and the third party people controlling it, but the ingrates has turned the system upside down, but watch very soon, bitcoin will take its shape and will no longer be a bubble to you.

nur rochid

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Quote from: Beerwizzard on May 02, 2019, 01:49:12 PM

Quote from: enhu on May 02, 2019, 11:58:21 AM

His style are just picking the ones that are cheaper at the time and hope the company makes it. That is basically holding for years.

No, he is not trading altcoins and ICO tokens lol.
You probably won't believe me but traditional investing works a bit more complicated way rather than just buying some shit and praying for it to rise in price. There are a lot of multiplicators and other indicators with different difficulty that would help you to see if a company is undervalued or not.

right, with the available indicators we can monitor and analyze the company's prospects going forward. certainly a general indicator that can be used, because most people will use it and that's where the global picture looks

el kaka22

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The difference here is that tech bubble happened so quickly and didn't had a history behind it, it was brand new and everyone got attracted to it so it went up super quickly and it went down super quickly as well, people thought that they could find the one in a billion amazon like stock and get rich super quickly, it failed.

Something different happened in 2008 when the banks got super greedy and they mortgaged housing loans but that wasn't enough so they bounded them together as well and sold that too and than like that wasn't enough they bonded those bonded ones again and sold that too, which made the margins so thin that even the smallest one would cripple the market, AND LIKE THAT IS NOT ENOUGH they put horrible not paid mortgages into good ones to get rid of them too.

Now stock market does look like it increased way more than it should but at least its a really legit system and even if it falls it can rebound back easily. That is why they are not similar to previous two bubbles.

Beerwizzard

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Quote from: enhu on May 02, 2019, 11:58:21 AM

His style are just picking the ones that are cheaper at the time and hope the company makes it. That is basically holding for years.

No, he is not trading altcoins and ICO tokens lol.
You probably won't believe me but traditional investing works a bit more complicated way rather than just buying some shit and praying for it to rise in price. There are a lot of multiplicators and other indicators with different difficulty that would help you to see if a company is undervalued or not.

kryptqnick

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Quote from: avikz on May 01, 2019, 10:17:25 PM

It is an well known fact that real estate is the biggest bubble in the history of mankind. With no actual valuation process available for land, it can bring a big disaster anytime in the economy! US has aready suffered it in 2008 and cities like Mumbai, Hong Kong, Tokyo are on the verge of it!

But still some economists prefer to call bitcoin a bubble because it makes them happy and they think this way they can keep their prominence over the economy!

It's sad even to talk about it, but the thing is that the big guys are not those who are going to suffer in case everything collapses again. I've seen some information about the stock market moving in a dangerous direction and people not imposing safety measures once again. But recall what happened the last time. Big banks and regulators screwed up, but they pretty much stayed in power nevertheless. It was people losing their savings, pensions, and jobs as well as paying taxes to bring the guilty ones back to the throne again. They stay in power and want to make sure nothing changes in that regard. Bitcoin is a threat because it cannot be manipulated and controlled like that. So instead of adapting, they try to fight what's bound to win.

Adriano2010

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I don't think bitcoin will crash and bitcoin in my opinion is not a bubble, why? Because bitcoin is not like infinite money and also not like a ponzi where more and more people invest thinking they will get a lot of money back and after time pass a lot of people lose their money.

nimiq.cafe

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Quote from: mu_enrico on May 02, 2019, 02:12:23 AM

It is no longer a secret that the market is in "everything bubble." However, what I want to know is about Bitcoin price. What will happen to Bitcoin if the market crashes? I am afraid that we do not have the correct hedging instruments to date.

Bitcoin will likely crash just as hard, people exit the riskiest and most volatile market first.
The interesting part is not really the crash itself but how the recovery will be handled, printing fiat will not be a solution anymore at some point and that's where the window of opportunity will be for cryptocurrencies.

enhu

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Quote from: mu_enrico on May 02, 2019, 02:12:23 AM

It is no longer a secret that the market is in "everything bubble." However, what I want to know is about Bitcoin price. What will happen to Bitcoin if the market crashes? I am afraid that we do not have the correct hedging instruments to date.

Not even the stablecoins, one in particular is that tether isn't the right option as they say. I can only assume its a scam because there were people publishing about it.

Quote from: Beerwizzard on May 02, 2019, 11:24:33 AM

Quote from: jjjfff on May 01, 2019, 06:11:57 PM

"Bitcoin is a bubble". O really?! What is this then?!

GDP is always growing and the economy of leading countries is always developing. In that case we can say that those countries are wealthy as never before, which gave more value to those stocks.
Warren Buffet's investing style is about picking undervalued stocks and selling them for the full price. So I would rather believe that stock market is growing without making a bubble.

His style are just picking the ones that are cheaper at the time and hope the company makes it. That is basically holding for years.

Beerwizzard

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Quote from: jjjfff on May 01, 2019, 06:11:57 PM

"Bitcoin is a bubble". O really?! What is this then?!

GDP is always growing and the economy of leading countries is always developing. In that case we can say that those countries are wealthy as never before, which gave more value to those stocks.
Warren Buffet's investing style is about picking undervalued stocks and selling them for the full price. So I would rather believe that stock market is growing without making a bubble.

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Quote from: dothebeats on May 02, 2019, 03:02:21 AM

Those traditional investors always stating that bitcoin is a bubble while their lovely assets also come into a similar phase are those people who can't take a mirror and look at themselves. I mean, the recent stock market prices are indeed overvalued and is long due for a correction now. Also the same reason why a lot of economists are calling for a collapse by 2020 which, at plain sight of this chart alone, is very likely to happen.

Wait until the stock market burst then let's come back at bitcoin and tell that it's a bubble still.

I agree. They basically hate what cryptocurrencies stand for and seek to demean them in whatever way possible. Bubbles have existed in the stock market too, but they never talk about that and only focus on crypto.

I still remember the housing market collapse like it was yesterday. Time will reveal the truth to such fools.

Tytanowy Janusz

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Black swan -30% ... -50 % in single day. That's the only way US stock market can go down. The government is too involved into stock market condition. It will do anything to stop price drop (just like in 24-26.12.2018). This will create opportunity for BIG SHORT just like Soros did with GPB during Black Wednesday.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Wednesday

TheWalkingCoin

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Bitcoin is not bubble and I know bitcoin have lower price right now, but sure you have more investing because bitcoin will be back above $20k at the future and always have potential to be on higher price.

Valhalaa

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as long as the price has not moved much the price of a coin, I assume a whales has not entered yet, but when prices move too deep down usually whales starts slowly and continues to enter then when their high prices rush to sell to get lost and all of us can lose and there was a bubble as long as the mentality is always strong in facing this, surely we can also find our own opportunities and not be affected by external factors

alyssa85

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I think we've reached the peak of the stock market bubble though.

Jerome Powell (chairman of the Fed) caused the markets to tank yesterday. They'd deluded themselves that he was going to cut interest rates - he held them and said that he thought there was still potential for inflation to build (which means there could be a rate RISE later this year). And he's still doing Quantitative Tightening.

As long as unemployment in the US is low, he won't cut rates, and the markets are struggling with the rises he put through last year. Lots of corporations have debt they need to roll over this year - they borrowed at 0.25% and will probably have to pay 2.5% when they roll it over. That's Ouch territory. Come the autumn we shall see many shares tanking.

moynul2050

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Crypto currency has indeed been the choice of several people who have made investments in crypto currencies, they believe that crypto currencies will have a good and profitable future for them.
although in fact everyone knows that deciding to switch investments in crypto currencies is a very difficult and very risky choice.
because crypto currencies are very volatile and very unpredictable, unlike their previous investments.

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Those traditional investors always stating that bitcoin is a bubble while their lovely assets also come into a similar phase are those people who can't take a mirror and look at themselves. I mean, the recent stock market prices are indeed overvalued and is long due for a correction now. Also the same reason why a lot of economists are calling for a collapse by 2020 which, at plain sight of this chart alone, is very likely to happen.

Wait until the stock market burst then let's come back at bitcoin and tell that it's a bubble still.

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Whales will always call bitcoin a bubble cause they can never understand it operations like the centralized currencies and business where they make which ever choice the wish in other to make gains. I have said it before if bitcoin is a bubble it should have busted long ago.

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It is no longer a secret that the market is in "everything bubble." However, what I want to know is about Bitcoin price. What will happen to Bitcoin if the market crashes? I am afraid that we do not have the correct hedging instruments to date.

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It's pretty obvious that economics, huge investors and other personalities would brand Bitcoin as a bubble because they haven't seen this kind of meteoritic rise in human history. But if you are going to compare it to previous bubble, then definitely it's not the biggest. As shown in the graph, stocks is will continue to bubble. But then again, they wouldn't attack it negatively, because that's there bread and butter, specially Warren B.

traderethereum

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Then I guess people need to change their option from the stock into cryptocurrency because cryptocurrency is growing start from this year. We believe that in the future, cryptocurrency can grow more than today and it will attract people to comes to the cryptocurrency world.
I think right now, many people who still choose the stock or else might get worried because their asset is going to down and they need to save their money before it's too late.
I believe that some of them have already changed their asset into cryptocurrency but they still not leave the previous asset.

avikz

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It is an well known fact that real estate is the biggest bubble in the history of mankind. With no actual valuation process available for land, it can bring a big disaster anytime in the economy! US has aready suffered it in 2008 and cities like Mumbai, Hong Kong, Tokyo are on the verge of it!

But still some economists prefer to call bitcoin a bubble because it makes them happy and they think this way they can keep their prominence over the economy!

rijaljun

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Well, he said so because he might be afraid their investment value will be taken over by Bitcoin industry. Also, Bitcoin is pretty new thing that aims to change everything and that caused shock on people who die hard for fiat and other centralized products. He could say it's a bubble for once again if he want to join Bitcoin community anyway.

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"Bitcoin is a bubble". O really?! What is this then?!

Topic: Asset multiples at highest since two previous global crashes (Read 346 times)