Topic: Atheism brougth us nothing good! (Read 1871 times)

The exact opposite is true...

Atheist countries have the least crime, and the happiest people

Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Canada, Switzerland, Australia, etc... predominantly atheist countries top this list, and all the countries at the bottom are highly religious

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report

I get when you call yourself Moloch you believe this crap Maybe people feels satisfied about the economic situation in this country but defently i have lived in the Nehterlands for almost all my life and nooo people are not so happy

While it is true that there is no definitive atheistic worldview, all atheists share the same fundamental beliefs as core to their personal worldviews. While some want to state that atheism is simply a disbelief in the existence of a god, there really is more to it. Every expression of atheism necessitates at least three additional affirmations:

1. The universe is purely material. It is strictly natural, and there is no such thing as the supernatural (e.g., gods or spiritual forces).

2. The universe is scientific. It is observable, knowable and governed strictly by the laws of physics.

3. The universe is impersonal. It does not a have consciousness or a will, nor is it guided by a consciousness or a will.

Denial of any one of those three affirmations will strike a mortal blow to atheism. Anything and everything that happens in such a universe is meaningless. A tree falls. A young girl is rescued from sexual slavery. A dog barks. A man is killed for not espousing the national religion. These are all actions that can be known and explained but never given any meaning or value.

A good atheist — that is, a consistent atheist — recognizes this dilemma. His only reasonable conclusion is to reject objective meaning and morality. Thus, calling him “good” in the moral sense is nonsensical. There is no morally good atheist, because there really is no objective morality. At best, morality is the mass delusion shared by humanity, protecting us from the cold sting of despair.

Why do christians think they know so much about atheists? (not that it should be difficult to understand a lack of belief... but you just don't get it)

You realize agnostics are also atheists... right? (so much for your "3 additional affirmations")

As for your point about atheists not being good, I object

Atheists are the only "good" people... Atheists are good people because they want society to be a better place for everyone... Atheists realize the benefit of being good over evil... Atheists are good because they love humanity

While it is true that there is no definitive atheistic worldview, all atheists share the same fundamental beliefs as core to their personal worldviews. While some want to state that atheism is simply a disbelief in the existence of a god, there really is more to it. Every expression of atheism necessitates at least three additional affirmations:

1. The universe is purely material. It is strictly natural, and there is no such thing as the supernatural (e.g., gods or spiritual forces).

2. The universe is scientific. It is observable, knowable and governed strictly by the laws of physics.

3. The universe is impersonal. It does not a have consciousness or a will, nor is it guided by a consciousness or a will.

Denial of any one of those three affirmations will strike a mortal blow to atheism. Anything and everything that happens in such a universe is meaningless. A tree falls. A young girl is rescued from sexual slavery. A dog barks. A man is killed for not espousing the national religion. These are all actions that can be known and explained but never given any meaning or value.

A good atheist — that is, a consistent atheist — recognizes this dilemma. His only reasonable conclusion is to reject objective meaning and morality. Thus, calling him “good” in the moral sense is nonsensical. There is no morally good atheist, because there really is no objective morality. At best, morality is the mass delusion shared by humanity, protecting us from the cold sting of despair.

If You’re Only Moral Because of God, “I Don’t Want To Know You”

Don't be mad at Christ. Be mad at people.
Yes typical answer from a religious dude  ..

I thinks that is what they are already doing being mad at the people and not blaming the religion..
And you want more ..

See you don't realise the trouble you cause by what you say over fairy tales ..

Be mad at the people over religion it's the people not the religion..

So now that can cause many outcomes

Not following the religion  Be mad at people.

Mock my religion   Be mad at people.

It's what you religious folk do  Be mad at people.

You read a book claim it to be the truth then go wacko if anyone disagrees with your idea of how the book should be interpreted when really it's all man made stories to sell a book in the olden days..

Like harry potter in 200 years from now ..
Then we will have the new harry potter testament because no one believes in wizards so just like the old testament got changed to the new testament harry potter will in 200 years..

Why is it if something is wrote in a book it's more true than if it's put on the internet ?..

You show people video evidence off youtube and they claim a book hold more substance 

You can see it come out of the persons mouth on many different videos from many different people
using mobile video phones but still a book hold more substance or a news paper ..

So if it's been wrote down in words on paper it's the truth..
But video evidence is a lie ..

Is a library full of books the truth over the internet holding the truth?..

I believe the internet over the library of books..

I do not think that religion or atheism can give something good. Bad people are in different religious trends or atheists. It is more important to educate a person, not his religious faith.

Religious growth is an education. A moral and ethical one

Folks often conflate a religion with its worst adherents. Take Christianity on this board for example. The overwhelming majority of atheist I see are former Christians. They don't object to the message itself, and how could you? When Christianity is done right, it is love, respect and empathy for your fellow man. Like Communism, it looks great on paper (the Bible is made of paper,) the issue is when folks don't follow the message. The hypocrisy turns a lot of folks off of the faith. The fact that there are "bummy" Christians enhances it for me; it tells me the path I walk is necessary, because I need to mitigate those that would cause others suffering.

If Christians acted like the New Testament, what critique, dear atheist, would you have for them? Don't feed the needy? Don't help the sick? Don't turn the other cheek? These are noble ideas.

Don't be mad at Christ. Be mad at people.

I do not think that religion or atheism can give something good. Bad people are in different religious trends or atheists. It is more important to educate a person, not his religious faith.

Atheists tend to think they're above anyone else, anyone who's a person of faith. Most of them just can't stay out of the conversation about religion without bashing it or telling everyone how stupid they are. Tho both of the sides have extremists, but atheists are kind of elitists.

Atheist always want us to believe that our countries are doing so much better now that people are getting less religious!

But all that i see is:
-more depression and less simple happiness
-more organised crime (done by our governments)
-more rudeness
-more stress

What is your idea on this?

Well problem of atheism is that they don't want to listen what other side have to say. And biggest problem about that relation between religion and atheism is that both of them want to convince other side, or random people in their belief.  Just leave everyone to belive in what they want.

@Coincube

Re increased violent and sex crime:

Swedish Christian nationalist would say the cause is mass immigration from sub sahara and middle east muslims.

Re china:

Official numbers are like <3% of the population. (From 1949 until now)
Important is that chinese christianity is just another tool for the chinese communist party to control the population.
The CPC is even appointing the Archbishop for china.

The best example that there exist no western christianity or religious freedom is falung gong.
In 6-7 years they managed to grow to 70 million believers and now the CPC is farming their organs.

The Chinese Government has banned members of the country’s ruling Communist Party from holding any religious beliefs.

An article written by the Wang Zuaon Director of the State Administration for Religious Affairs revealed that all Party members must abandon religion for Marxist atheism or be punished.

It also stated that religious groups should be ‘guided’ by the state in altering their doctrine in order to promote “socialist core values”.

Undermine
Over 88 million people are members of the Communist Party of China (CPC), and many apply to join the Party in order to enjoy better career prospects.

The CPC believes that foreigners have used Christianity and Islam to deliberately spread their political views in China and so undermine the Party, leading Wang Zuaon to introduce the permanent regulations.

He wrote: “Party members should not have religious beliefs, which is a red line for all members”.

Punishment
“Party members should be firm Marxist atheists, obey Party rules and stick to the Party’s faith… they are not allowed to seek value and belief in religion”, he added.

Wang also wrote that Party officials who have a religious faith should be persuaded to give it up, and those who resisted would be punished by the CPC.

Su Wei, a professor at the Party School of the CPC Chongqing Committee responded to Wang’s regulations by referring to Christianity as part of “China’s religious problem”.

Exponential growth
Christianity in China has been accused of being a national security risk, and in the past few years, hundreds of Christian pastors and activists have been arrested.

The international freedom watchdog Freedom House said in March that as many as 100 million people in China are facing “high” or “very high” levels of persecution under Communist rule.

However while religious freedom is under threat, Christianity has been growing exponentially in China.

Academics predict that by 2030 China will have more than 247 million Christians, which would be more than 17 per cent of the projected population.

Atheism seems to thrive in countries where there is a lot of financial freedom and freedom of expression. Being an atheist in a religious third world country will likely sever you from your delicate family support network. In most first world and developing countries, you can get a basic job and have enough money to live on your own and lead your own atheist lifestyle. The exception I suppose would be countries like China or other communist or ex-communist countries where religion had been oppressed.

Atheist always want us to believe that our countries are doing so much better now that people are getting less religious!

But all that i see is:
-more depression and less simple happiness
-more organised crime (done by our governments)
-more rudeness
-more stress

What is your idea on this?

Atheist always want us to believe that our countries are doing so much better now that people are getting less religious!

But all that i see is:
-more depression and less simple happiness
-more organised crime (done by our governments)
-more rudeness
-more stress

What is your idea on this?

Well, I got my info from this Wikipedia page https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Denmark
Excerpt from the site:
"According to the 2012 Eurobarometer , 71% of Danish people are Christians (64% are Protestant), 25% are non-religious and 3% are members of other religions."

I did a search on other developed countries on your list still thesame.



I still insist on discouraging Bigotry. If this is done, you may be shocked the numbers of atheist/agnostic in developing countries is higher than thought. The stats could even be thesame everywhere. People are forced to become what they don't want to be in these countries.
County like North Korea and Cuba  identify as athiests but If the freedom is there, the number of Religious people could really be far higher than athiests. You will be surprised that Japanese and South Korea have more Religious people too.

Gallup claims that 52 percent of the Danish population associates as either atheist or non-religious – but this figure is significantly lower than previous surveys that directly asked people whether they were religious.

A survey in 2008, also by Gallup, revealed Denmark to be in the top three least religious countries in the world

Thousands of people have left the Church of Denmark following a nationwide advertising campaign by the country's atheist society.

Between April and June, 10,000 people left the church - the highest number of registered withdrawals since 2007.

You did not conduct such research properly, if at all...

Every country that I listed as primarily atheist has a strong majority of self-identifying atheists living in that country. If there is no religion with a clear majority, I list the religion with plurality first, and the secondary religion second.

If I am wrong, please list the country you disagree with, and the percent you think each religion has in that specific country, and I will update the post if you are correct (which you won't be because I've already checked every country I listed)

Example:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Norway

I lump agnostics with atheists... because, they are "soft-atheists" (I similarly lump protestants, catholics, mormons, etc into "christian", so fair is fair)... so with Norway, we have 39% atheist + 27% agnostic = 66% atheist... 37% religious (mostly christian)... If you don't answer "yes" to the question, "do you believe in God?", you are an atheist
As a result of 66% vs 37% is predominantly one-sided, I label Norway as Atheist...

Israel however, is closer to 50%/50%, so I put (Jewish/Atheist) because it is more accurate/honest that way (half of Jewish adherents do not believe in God, which is different from christians/muslims, ref. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_atheism "A 2011 study found that half of all American Jews have doubts about the existence of God, compared to 10–15% of other American religious groups")

Also note: This is not "my data"... this is an independent international report based on numerous variables that has been conducted for years.  I simply added the predominant religion of each country in parenthesis (), using the most recent data/polling I could find (2016-2017)

Your data is pretty interesting but I don't i think it is very true. I did an Internet search on some of the successful countries on your list, most still identifies as Christians...
The claim that developed Western countries are full of atheists is myth.


Blame Bigotry for bad behaviors not Religion.

According to 2016 data from annual social-cultural study Norwegian Monitor (Norsk Monitor), 39 percent of Norvegians responded with "No" to the question to the question “Do you believe in God?”, while 37 percent said "Yes" and 27 percent said that they did not know.

Right now, the largest number of atheists in the world live in China. And for sure, the living conditions there are much better than that in religious nations such as Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Yemen, or Pakistan.

The number of Christians in Communist China is growing so steadily that it by 2030 it could have more churchgoers than America

It is said to be China's biggest church and on Easter Sunday thousands of worshippers will flock to this Asian mega-temple to pledge their allegiance – not to the Communist Party, but to the Cross.

The 5,000-capacity Liushi church, which boasts more than twice as many seats as Westminster Abbey and a 206ft crucifix that can be seen for miles around, opened last year with one theologian declaring it a "miracle that such a small town was able to build such a grand church".

The £8 million building is also one of the most visible symbols of Communist China's breakneck conversion as it evolves into one of the largest Christian congregations on earth.

"It is a wonderful thing to be a follower of Jesus Christ. It gives us great confidence," beamed Jin Hongxin, a 40-year-old visitor who was admiring the golden cross above Liushi's altar in the lead up to Holy Week.

"If everyone in China believed in Jesus then we would have no more need for police stations. There would be no more bad people and therefore no more crime," she added.

Officially, the People's Republic of China is an atheist country but that is changing fast as many of its 1.3 billion citizens seek meaning and spiritual comfort that neither communism nor capitalism seem to have supplied.

Christian congregations in particular have skyrocketed since churches began reopening when Chairman Mao's death in 1976 signalled the end of the Cultural Revolution.

Less than four decades later, some believe China is now poised to become not just the world's number one economy but also its most numerous Christian nation.

"By my calculations China is destined to become the largest Christian country in the world very soon," said Fenggang Yang, a professor of sociology at Purdue University and author of Religion in China: Survival and Revival under Communist Rule.

"It is going to be less than a generation. Not many people are prepared for this dramatic change."

China's Protestant community, which had just one million members in 1949, has already overtaken those of countries more commonly associated with an evangelical boom. In 2010 there were more than 58 million Protestants in China compared to 40 million in Brazil and 36 million in South Africa, according to the Pew Research Centre's Forum on Religion and Public Life.

Prof Yang, a leading expert on religion in China, believes that number will swell to around 160 million by 2025. That would likely put China ahead even of the United States, which had around 159 million Protestants in 2010 but whose congregations are in decline.

By 2030, China's total Christian population, including Catholics, would exceed 247 million, placing it above Mexico, Brazil and the United States as the largest Christian congregation in the world, he predicted.

"Mao thought he could eliminate religion. He thought he had accomplished this," Prof Yang said. "It's ironic – they didn't. They actually failed completely."
Like many Chinese churches, the church in the town of Liushi, 200 miles south of Shanghai in Zhejiang province, has had a turbulent history.

It was founded in 1886 after William Edward Soothill, a Yorkshire-born missionary and future Oxford University professor, began evangelising local communities.

But by the late 1950s, as the region was engulfed by Mao's violent anti-Christian campaigns, it was forced to close.

Liushi remained shut throughout the decade of the Cultural Revolution that began in 1966, as places of worship were destroyed across the country.
Since it reopened in 1978 its congregation has gone from strength to strength as part of China's officially sanctioned Christian church – along with thousands of others that have accepted Communist Party oversight in return for being allowed to worship.

Today it has 2,600 regular churchgoers and holds up to 70 baptisms each year, according to Shi Xiaoli, its 27-year-old preacher. The parish's revival reached a crescendo last year with the opening of its new 1,500ft mega-church, reputedly the biggest in mainland China.

"Our old church was small and hard to find," said Ms Shi. "There wasn't room in the old building for all the followers, especially at Christmas and at Easter. The new one is big and eye-catching."

The Liushi church is not alone. From Yunnan province in China's balmy southwest to Liaoning in its industrial northeast, congregations are booming and more Chinese are thought to attend Sunday services each week than do Christians across the whole of Europe.

A recent study found that online searches for the words "Christian Congregation" and "Jesus" far outnumbered those for "The Communist Party" and "Xi Jinping", China's president.

Here are some thoughts I read on this topic today.

Spiritual Destruction or Awakening - The Choice is Ours.
http://albionawakening.blogspot.co.uk/2017/08/spiritual-destruction-or-awakening.html

Atheism is depressing only because you'd believe that you're practically on your own in this world. Whether that would be actually depressing would depend on the persons temperament though. Some might sulk while some might see it as a challenge to take full control and responsibility for their lives.


Much of this was after they let in all those "immigrants". Their problem was that living in peace and happiness for a long time has somehow made them a bit more trusting. Rather mean comparison but it's like the dodos. They never had any predators so when humans came in, they'd even just walk towards people expecting no harm.

As for the suicide rates, imagine going to an amusement park, on your own, after a really bad break up. All the happiness around you just amplify the sadness inside. If everyone's happy but you are not, you start to think that the problem is you.

The literal insanity of mainstream public discourse, and the lack of insight of this fact, suggests that Man without religion is non-viable.

To put matters another way - religion is the most important thing in the human world.  

Of course, a few individuals, in the short term, can survive atheism mentally intact; but there is no evidence at all that this is a possibility for human societies over more than a few decades - then the signs of insanity (incoherence, exitinction) become more-and-more obvious... or they would do so if loss of insight was not itself a prime sign of insanity.

So insanity shields us from knowledge of our own insanity, because insanity destroys insight as much as it destroys judgement - it affects the whole mode of thinking.

How, then, do we know we, as a society, are insane?

1. By applying older judgements, from the time before Men became insane - reading old books, talking to non-modern people...

2. By looking at the basic biological viability of atheist societies in terms of reproduction, demographics, response to direct and immediate threats, scale of priorities ... Compare societies and groups that are biologically viable, with the modern atheist societies that are not...

3. By reflecting on how we feel about Life. Insane people are almost always miserable - dysphoric, despairing, desperate... almost all of the time. Even the euphoric frenzy of mania is brittle, and crashes into suicidal self-destruction with a high frequency. Is there hope?

In conclusion - religion is the most important thing.

Religion is necessary for long term motivation, for social coherence, for purpose, and to enable the individual to be a part of the whole.

Since religion is necessary, if or when humans either dispense with religion or else place it anything lower than first in priority; then they as individuals and their societies will begin to fall apart and spiral towards alienation, purposelessness, inability to perceive or reason what is important, cowardice (i.e. short-term selfishness), desperation and all the rest of it.

Modernity is the experiment of Man living without Religion. The experiment has been running for several generations.

But the experiment of modernity has deprived modern people of the motivation, honesty and ability to evaluate the results of the experiment - by the always changing criteria of modernity, modernity sees no alternative to itself...

Conclusion: Religion is objectively necessary; and, by one kind of reasoning, therefore true. If you are not religious you are living in error. If you are not religious then you need to become religious. The question you must settle is not whether you should be religious, but which religion you will adopt.

Your data is pretty interesting but I don't i think it is very true. I did an Internet search on some of the successful countries on your list, most still identifies as Christians...
The claim that developed Western countries are full of atheists is myth.


Blame Bigotry for bad behaviors not Religion.

So the 'least religious' nation is the western world appears to be on a bit of a downward trajectory. We will all get to watch the consequences as they play out slowly over the coming years.

Your data is pretty interesting but I don't i think it is very true. I did an Internet search on some of the successful countries on your list, most still identifies as Christians...
The claim that developed Western countries are full of atheists is myth.


Blame Bigotry for bad behaviors not Religion.

The exact opposite is true...

Atheist countries have the least crime, and the happiest people

Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Canada, Switzerland, Australia, etc... predominantly atheist countries top this list, and all the countries at the bottom are highly religious

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report

Hey stupid now that we're down to personal attacks the scientific didn't make those things happen it was private corporations and the military funding universities that did that. Now those corporations want a carbon tax and more enslavement so they push the scientific community to run fake climate studies and drug trials with faked results to submit to the FDA.

the scientific didn't make those things happen

Atheist always want us to believe that our countries are doing so much better now that people are getting less religious!

But all that i see is:
-more depression and less simple happiness
-more organised crime (done by our governments)
-more rudeness
-more stress

What is your idea on this?

Atheist always want us to believe that our countries are doing so much better now that people are getting less religious!

But all that i see is:
-more depression and less simple happiness
-more organised crime (done by our governments)
-more rudeness
-more stress

What is your idea on this?

The exact opposite is true...

Atheist countries have the least crime, and the happiest people

Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Canada, Switzerland, Australia, etc... predominantly atheist countries top this list, and all the countries at the bottom are highly religious

Almost eight out of ten Swedes are either "not religious" or "convinced atheists", according to a new global study that concludes the Nordic nation is the least religious in the West.

Sweden’s official statistics do show increases in “lethal violence” (which includes murder, manslaughter and other deadly assaults) and sexual offenses  over the past ten years. Between 2006 and 2015 the incidence of “lethal violence” does fluctuate, but there is a sharp 65 percent spike from 2012 to 2015. In the same period, there was also an almost 49 percent increase in sexual offenses (a category including, among other offenses, rape). Looking at rape by itself, from 2006-2015 there was a 40 percent increase in the number of reported rapes.

The numbers of young Swedes reporting that they suffer from depression, anxiety or other mental health disorders has risen in the last 30 years. That increase has in turn led to a significant rise in prescriptions of antidepressants. In fact, according to the Swedish health authorities, antidepressant prescriptions increased by 36 percent between 2006 and 2012.

To those who haven’t heard, Sweden is the butt of just about every joke on the internet. Swedish men are mocked for their effeminacy and the country’s “tolerant” attitude towards migrants astounds many people. It is hard to believe some of the news stories about rapings, gropings and cultural marxist insanity that come out of Sweden on a weekly basis.

I assumed much of this was hyperbole, but I was so painfully, agonizingly, and completely DEAD WRONG.

Are Swedes no longer as happy as they used to be? According to a new report Sweden has dropped to the world's 10th happiest country, down from fifth place three years ago.

It always amuses me when someone mocks science while using a computer, cell phone, and all the wonderful things science has brought us (while failing to spell words properly)

It always amuses me when someone mocks science while using a computer, cell phone, and all the wonderful things science has brought us (while failing to spell words properly)

Without science the life expectancy would be 30 years old, you wouldn't have a car, cell phone, computer, electricity, etc... you would be living like the Amish

I agree, also it gave us another thing:

- More science stupidity and people worshiping the scientific community becauset that's their new god in their Secular Humanist world. So they beileve Al Gore and whatever other crap the scientific majority pushes out.

Atheist always want us to believe that our countries are doing so much better now that people are getting less religious!

But all that i see is:
-more depression and less simple happiness
-more organised crime (done by our governments)
-more rudeness
-more stress

What is your idea on this?

1: Norway (atheist)
2: Denmark (atheist)
3: Iceland (atheist)
4: Switzerland (atheist)
5: Finland (atheist)
6: Netherlands (atheist)
7: Canada (atheist)
8: New Zealand (atheist/christian)
9: Australia (atheist/christian)
10: Sweden (atheist)
11: Israel (jewish/atheist)
...
14: United States (christian)
...
25: Mexico (christian)
...
37: Saudi Arabia (muslim)
...
151: Rwanda (christian)
152: Syria (muslim)
153: Tanzania (christian)
154: Burundi (christian)
155: Central African Republic (christian)

Atheist always want us to believe that our countries are doing so much better now that people are getting less religious!

But all that i see is:
-more depression and less simple happiness
-more organised crime (done by our governments)
-more rudeness
-more stress

What is your idea on this?

Present day conditions are well nigh ideal for spiritual destruction. We have a comfortable material existence and a superficially plausible explanation for why life exists, plausible enough to satisfy those who aren't willing to look more deeply anyway, coupled with a technology that gives us an abundance of toys to distract us from our inner emptiness.

Furthermore the sexual revolution has led to a spiritual desensitivity which would have shocked our ancestors, the wisest of whom knew that releasing the sexual energy from a proper constraint (constraint not repression) is profoundly destructive on many levels, both spiritual and material. The wisest knew and the rest more or less followed, certainly in terms of how society and culture were ordered which is the important thing. Laws will always be broken but without law there is chaos, and that's what we have today if you observe from the vantage point of the spiritual plane...

Yes, people, especially the young, live and are growing up during a period of terrible corruption. I was told in the 1990s that we were living at a time of the greatest vulgarity in the history of the planet. Vulgarity was the word used but, in the manner used, it implied a lot more than just simple coarseness. It meant decadence, corruption and spiritual ignorance. It meant declining taste, lack of dignity and ugliness. Now, of course, things are significantly worse. So people, in particular young people with a debased culture, both popular and intellectual, are subject to appalling influences and temptations. But still the way out exists for those who will pay attention to the voice of truth within them. Outer institutions are useless so the way out is actually the way in but ultimately that's what it's always been, even when institutions helped rather than hindered the spiritual quest as used to be the case.

So we may be living in a time of spiritual darkness and deprivation but that is the test. Will we allow ourselves to fall into line with that because of a willful (and the will is always involved) lack of response to truth or will we listen to God's voice within? Will we follow the herd and the line of least resistance or will we acknowledge conscience and hearken to the intuition? We have the choice and if the choice is hard that is only because it must be to be a true test of our mettle, our spiritual quality and our good will. I believe that now we have, as probably never before, not on the same scale anyway, a sorting out of the sheep from the goats or, if you like, of the good seed from the bad. Today there is a real sifting of souls.