Topic: Attempted Replace By Fee and now have a confirmed, but invalid transaction. (Read 232 times)

Was just talking about BitPay which does almost the exact same thing except as soon as the tx is detected as RBF-possible, it invalidates it -- whether or not you actually follow up with the technical double spend. It is the only service I know that does that, but I won't be surprised if some day others decide to take this pre-emptive strike as well.

There is a huge lag with these services when it comes to accepting, understanding and embracing the full features of Bitcoin.

That's the beauty of the blockchain. It's all transparent and no one can deny what happened.

Thanks @o_e_l_e_o for the suggestion. I'll remember that.

Thanks to everyone else as well. This has been a very educational experience. I have been dabbling with BTC and some other coins for several years now. I'm not a programmer or anything, just someone interested in the tech.

To update:

I emailed coinswitch.io customer service before going to sleep last night, and by the next morning my transaction had been processed. According to the time stamps, they had pushed it through within two hours of my email with no additional questions.

Yeah, it sounds very much like the person OP was speaking to at CoinSwitch had no idea what they were talking about, particularly this quote:

What's he expecting the Electrum devs to be able to do to help here?

---

For future reference OP, looking at the transaction you made here (https://blockchair.com/bitcoin/transaction/6870363afb94f9d716d29b2c83a2c76ea0f8c244642151a13b803de09cabf7f5), you have sent 0.005 BTC to CoinSwitch, and 0.104.... BTC to a change address. You could have performed a Child Pays For Parent (CPFP) transaction instead of an RBF. If you had made a transaction with the coins in the change address (any transaction would do, even just moving the whole lot to another address in the same wallet), and paid a larger fee, then when the second transaction was mined the first would be mined along with it. It doesn't change the first transaction in any way like RBF does, and so it would have still been valid from the point of view of CoinSwitch's poorly designed system.

I think the problem is caused by poor programming in that exchange, as mentioned by the support team.
You can read some information here:


So it seems that the detection and confirmation are done at the level of tx hash so they tell you the error.
Does that order have an end date?
I think the mistake is by them so they should either modify the programming or send the money manually. "I don't see a reason for the delay."


You can read this from F.A.Q

the Replace By Fee feature is technically a double spend so it really isn't strange that some block explorers show an "error" message attached to such transactions when you increase the fee. you are technically creating and signing an entirely new transaction that is using the same input(s) and output(s) as the original one with a different (higher) fee.

as for the services, unfortunately some of them have such bad designs where the system, instead of subscribing to the address they subscribe to the transaction. in other words it is bad programming design made by developers that weren't fully aware of all the features that bitcoin has. they have to upgrade their system to support a feature that was added to bitcoin years ago and has been used a lot ever since!

It would appear that their system is setup to look for the very first transaction sent to the deposit address... and ONLY that transaction.

Any subsequent transactions are then ignored (regardless of whether or not they confirm). Seems there is a bit of a disconnect between how some of the payment processors setup their systems and the way Bitcoin works. Perhaps they need to put a big warning saying "DON'T USE RBF" etc... I doubt yours would be the only case like this.

I'll have to remember never to use RBF again if I'm using coinswitch.co. I know in this case it isn't a lot of BTC, but it could have just as easily been a substantial amount.

Here is the conversation I have been having so far:


CoinSwitch Support
online now


5:37 PM
CoinSwitch Support
Hey there, how can i help you?

Me:
Hi, I was wanting to check on a transaction that seems to be stuck for some reason.

CoinSwitch Support
Please share order id

Me
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

CoinSwitch Support
The order has no deposit


Me:
Do you mean the Bitcoin deposit?

CoinSwitch Support
Yes

Me:
That is what is confusing, because the block explorer show the address has a balance of 0.005 BTC

CoinSwitch Support
Can you share the hash


Me
92429745e8aa130eba8d425e15a1a01d5fe190cc4d4a23e782e84072ab475404

CoinSwitch Support
Please check this hash on explorer
It has a error

Me:
I see that, but I don't understand what it means or what to do about it.
I sent it from my Electrum wallet, and did a Replace By Fee because I had the fee set too low when I sent the transaction.

CoinSwitch Support
The transaction shows error on explorer
Please contact your wallet provider

Me:
ok, thanks. I'll see if I can get some help from the Electrum forums.

CoinSwitch Support
ok

7:45 PM
Hello again.  It looks like there was a second transaction created when I increased the transaction fee: 6870363afb94f9d716d29b2c83a2c76ea0f8c244642151a13b803de09cabf7f5
This one is confirmed with no errors.
The deposit address shows to have a balance of 0.005 BTC.
https://www.blockchain.com/btc/address/17fxN71Xfy15dC3PjAdYVrpuYq7HY9iu4N

CoinSwitch Support
Please share order id

Me:
d819f1a1-a075-40f9-9d6c-d4ca9e5ca6ff

CoinSwitch Support
The order is waiting for deposit

Me:
The deposit address is funded. If you look at the deposit address on the block explorer, it contains a balance of 0.005 BTC, which is the requested amount.

CoinSwitch Support
The hash has error
Please check

Me:
Yes, I have checked. There are two hashes. The first is: 92429745e8aa130eba8d425e15a1a01d5fe190cc4d4a23e782e84072ab475404  The transaction fee was too low, so I increased the transaction fee which generated a new hash, which is: 6870363afb94f9d716d29b2c83a2c76ea0f8c244642151a13b803de09cabf7f5  Because I used Replace By Fee to increase the amount I paid for the transaction fee, it caused the first has to be invalid. However, the second hash that resulted from increasing the transaction fee IS valid. Furthermore, the exchange wallet address IS funded. It has a confirmed balance of 0.005 BTC.

CoinSwitch Support
The address given in any order is one time address
Please do not send multiple transactions

Me
I only sent one transaction, but apparently Replace by Fee generates a new transaction. What are my options since the exchange wallet address contains the 0.005 BTC I sent? How do I get it back, or can you or possibly someone else at your company help me? I really don't want to loose my money.

CoinSwitch Support
Please share the details to [email protected]
We have requested the team to look into it


Me:
Ok, Thank you

Delivered
8:50 PM

Thanks @BitCryptex for the info.

@HCP
I was looking at  Blockcypher: https://live.blockcypher.com/btc/tx/6870363afb94f9d716d29b2c83a2c76ea0f8c244642151a13b803de09cabf7f5/

 and blockchain.com. 

I think I found a new piece of information. It appears there are two different transaction hashes. The original and another that apparently was created when I did RBF transaction.

Origional: 92429745e8aa130eba8d425e15a1a01d5fe190cc4d4a23e782e84072ab475404
RBF: 6870363afb94f9d716d29b2c83a2c76ea0f8c244642151a13b803de09cabf7f5

Sorry I didn't notice this before.

I guess coinswitch.co is monitoring the original transaction on blockchain.com:  https://www.blockchain.com/btc/tx/92429745e8aa130eba8d425e15a1a01d5fe190cc4d4a23e782e84072ab475404

Out of curiosity, which Block Explorer is showing that warning? The only one I could find that marks it as having had a potential double spend is BlockCypher: https://live.blockcypher.com/btc/tx/6870363afb94f9d716d29b2c83a2c76ea0f8c244642151a13b803de09cabf7f5/


The others I tend to use look "fine":
https://btc.com/6870363afb94f9d716d29b2c83a2c76ea0f8c244642151a13b803de09cabf7f5
https://blockchair.com/bitcoin/transaction/6870363afb94f9d716d29b2c83a2c76ea0f8c244642151a13b803de09cabf7f5
https://www.blockchain.com/btc/tx/6870363afb94f9d716d29b2c83a2c76ea0f8c244642151a13b803de09cabf7f5

In any case, as BitCryptex said... your transaction is "confirmed"... any double spend 'warning' is pretty much irrelevant now.

The transaction has been already confirmed so there is nothing to worry about. You don't have to do anything. Every block explorer marks transactions bumped with a higher fee using RBF as possible double-spends. They are valid transactions.

Hi Everyone,

I sent a small amount of BTC to coinswitch.co to exchange for ETH to use as gas. This transaction was made from my Electrum 3.3.8 wallet. I had the fee set low, and it was taking a long time to confirm, so I did a Replace By Fee transaction from Electrum. Now the receiving address and change address show a balance, but the block explorer had the transaction marked as invalid and possibly double spent. Is there any way to fix this?

Transaction hash is: 6870363afb94f9d716d29b2c83a2c76ea0f8c244642151a13b803de09cabf7f5

Thanks for any help or suggestions.

Dave