Topic: Axorb/ mukundh3 [Resolved] (Read 15501 times)

Nope, was not a scam as nobody got hurt. But it did seem like quite a high risk transaction.

I agree with the majority. Only those who have mining farms can sell any number of bitcoins and will have the monopoly over it. For those who are stepping into the bitcoin world can do nothing but trade bitcoins and make very less profits in between. As they may not be able to afford the miners or they will end up in a queue for an year if its butterfly. Unless they balance the supply and demand, guess things should be fine. Buying from a seller who does not have any without an escrow might be problem. Other than that, its not a scam as far as I have understood from Benson's quote.

JUST because you own some fast ASICs doesnt give you the right to insult me this way.
Everyone knows I dont SELL my coins, I buy coins with the buyer's money.
And I say this openly before all transactions.

That would be quite nice actually. Cheers

If you would like, I can move the nasty parts of the topic to a new thread, but it is your call as this is your thread.

My and axorb exchanged quite a few pm's (which i did keep a backup of), but yes in future i can see why it helps to keep all details except bank and personal ones public. The transaction was of 10 btc (should have mentioned sorry). Also, from my end, i sent axorb the picture of the cash deposit receipt. Even if amount has not been recieved in seller account, receipt can be used to show that buyer did in fact make deposit.

Now lets get the thread back on track, still buying 10 btc

Crypto is only held for 48 hours or as per the contract.

That is why escrow has a cost. There will be a damn detailed investigation if there is a claim made.

How does escrow handle these two situations:

• Buyer never makes bank transfer.
• Seller receives transfer but claims he never received it.

let me explain something about competition, as I wrote previously, I do not sale much here. And not much anywhere too. I prefer invest bitcoins and do not sale it. When I need to sale I sale on Mtgox.

What do you think my total transactions were here   (((  2.5 btc ))). Not count one transaction with buysellbitcoins, whom I know much before coming to this forum.

ONCE again I do not look for any business here!!

I'm here just because I care how becoins will be seen and accepted in India. I hope we can change situation for better, on initial stage there is always such up and downs. Give it some time and it all will all sorted out.

As of now we do not have common idea of what is scam offer and what is not. I would consider as a scam any sale offer where seller do not have required btc he offered for sale at the moment he made that offer. 

 , happens.

Benson, thanks for explaining it to me. I been a dick, sorry.
seller address is
http://blockchain.info/address/1AkB4Ro91L1LETgZmX7xgSw75AUqQnUFLN

it only received 10btc recently

Apologies. My mistake. The account is well funded. I withdraw from this inquiry.

As per previous post. But if you notice, the seller address does not have 20 BTC.

Balance was: 10.12081085 BTC

I think mukundh3 was buying 10 BTC only for first trade.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2481255

It is a 10 BTC sale, not 20. But I would like to see the seller address that has 20 BTC.

You are actually right about fake deal and fake vouch, i mean anyone can make a new account and show that he bought/sold bitcoins from/to his 2nd account and i guess you have right to ask for proof of transaction that happened between buyer/seller, if they fail to provide it, they are probably setting up a scam.

I mean i've been into currency exchange business from many years, i have seen peoples making fake accounts and doing deal with their main account and building fake reputation to do big scam one day.

Ps: pinwheel bro i think there is some misunderstanding between "providing item that you don't have" and "safe trading". Actually it depends on persons reputation.

Scam:
If someone with low/no reputation doesn't have something and he's asking for payment first.

Possible scam:
If someone doesn't have something and he's taking payment first to provide item.

Safe Trading/Business:

If someone (with good reputation obviously) doesn't have item but he agrees for a deal and ask "A" to send money to escrow, then he buy's item from  "B" at low rate and sell's them to "A", takes payment from him and then makes payment to "B".


^ Here if person doesn't have good reputation, he can take payment from A and scam person "B" easily.

This was unnecessary. Now, even I would like to see proof of 20 BTC.

You do not know what my job is, so stop flaffing.


Even if these rules have been broken, we follow a set of hints to first warn people before we raise a ban request or ban them ourselves. We also have heavy involvement in some other projects that facilitate the growth of the forums.

If you did not know, we do not have the rights to give tags. In fact, that will no longer be used because of the new trust feature on the forum.
Any scam accusations need to be made here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=83.0 for now.

This is a free speech forum. People are welcome here with controversial ideas and thought provoking discussions. Stopping them without proof is what could have happened to any of us as well.

Do not mistake politeness for weakness. I like to avoid aggression under all circumstances, but I will not take crap from someone who has been speculating a scam here for the past few days and nothing seems to have happened. And then, he has the balls to accuse me of facilitating scammers.

If you want to control the market, do it on your own terms, do not ask me to accept what you think is correct. But if any other senior members of the community feel that the approach needs to be tweaked, do let me know. I am darn open to feedback which makes sense.

So either you are wrong or you are upset that you did not get the sale.

Man up. It will get worse than this as time passes.

This shows 10 BTC. Where is the 20?

http://blockchain.info/tx/135841b73e01bc7adbb292796c0a05cd43d2cdc7fef9c001cf18cf8fcbaf9917
No sensitive info there right?

what I expect from you is doing your job as staff and mod. Start giving TAGs and try to clean this section of forums from these narcissistic kids. But seems like you are not the man up to the job. You cannot see difference between buying Sony TV and scam btc sale offer. Get it clear in your head first, what you want this place to be and how you want the other people value your offers.

Bro listen, im only going to do this once, you were originally being productive on my thread, thank you, and i definately will check that seller has coins in future next time. But you have to stop your whining. It's an open market, i dunno if anyone has explained economics to you.


Read that a couple of times before you reply. I say last offer, and i tell u in a previous pm that 10% on goxl is too high. I remember checking the price when you replied, and 6500 was a little more than 10% at the time. So no, i got peeved and i didn't reply, sorry if i hurt your ego man. But i wasnt going to pay 10% more on such a big deal because you think your some cybergod with 200 btc.

Can you provide the transaction hash or an address, I am sure that Pinwheel will feel much better after that bit.

Hi mate, just wanted to say a few things. My payment just came through, and was in contact with axorb the entire time, but was definately stressed to say the least, and in retrospect, i lost alot of time and money also because of the delay's, so yes i should have taken more of an initial effort on my part, and i did a check on his address, which shows that u got the coins just some time back, so yes maybe he did take my money and buy the coins (i would not even have had a problem with this, except that i was told ill get the coin latest today morning, and ive lost a decent sum because i could not). That being said, i would do business again with axorb. And yes, not going on escrow was a risk im not sure i should take again, the grey hairs ive got today would say its not worth it. Thanks everyone for your replies, i know i could have got scammed very easily, good thing axorb is a good guy, thank god and thank karma

You should see some of the calls that I get Pinwheel. And the best part is that I don't even do trades that much. I also know that buysellbitco.in has his share of problems as well. I know few people who came forward and then had to step down due to several issues revolving around the lack of an easy entry barrier to Bitcoin.

This is not just in India, but a global problem.

Let us know if you would like some help. Do pass on information such as IP addresses, phone numbers, names, etc and we can launch a community effort to weed India of this problem.

And remember, I am not offering to do this as a moderator, but as a friend and a fellow Bitcoiner who has a lot of respect for your role in Bitcoin.

Play it  cool, you   know  how  to  identify scammers,  if   people  become  even  a little  suspicious  just  cut  communication.
In regards  to  other  sellers  cutting  you  off.  just  take  it  easy. free  enterprises will always  give  rise  to  alot  of  competition .  I  say  every  thing  is  ok  as  long  as   deals on both  sides  are done with honor. 

selling this circus, for some serious people, who considering investing into bitcoins is a jaw dropping.

I dont care who is scamming, who is not scamming as long it did not come to me. And it did come to me at this time. Some kids calling me, trying to fix price, asking were I live, proposing to meet, lakhs deals  ect. I guess been mixed in shit is a part of been bitcoiner in India

looks  like  someone's  got  a  crush  setting  on  lol  ...   seeing   exotic  dancers  as me  hum.....  dont know if it  could be  a complement  or not.....  but any  ways  it  better  that nothing.  

Lol, not sure mate. When I write, words simply flow and somehow subvolatil followed exotic dancers.

Hahaha, now that sounded even weirder.

hey whats my name  doing  here.  granted  i'm special, and you  guys  just love me  so much, but  dam ....  next  to an  exotic dancer.. now  that is  just not true.. may be  in college, but  those  were   old  time   lol  

I love posting my opinions, recommendations, thoughts, etc as a person, not a mod. buysellbitco.in is spot on with my responsibilities on the forum.
Internet Policing, Scam chasing, Escrow, Jokes, posts etc are all things that I do as a Bitcoiner, not as a Moderator.
If someone asks me to arbitrate a problem, I will help for sure and I do not care if my opinions are heard or not. I will try my best to stop scams if I am sure that something is not in place.


The above post was funny to me to be honest. Which mature individual in their right minds would even think of considering an attempt at assuming that this could have reached the point of sale.

This is free market economics and yes, they also have scammers, exotic dancers and subvolatil.

I do agree with your stance on not recommending any one as Mod.. But Mod is also a person and can have opinions.. He is not a judge or something like that who can not say ok i will recommend this or that.. As far as being mod, I see your responsibility only to avoid spam, organize the board and make sure the discussions are on topic. I do not see you as scam protector or internet police. People must use precaution to save them selves from scam. It is not your duty to save every one out here.

As far as I can understand all Pinwheel is saying is that people jumping in on each trade with offers like below :

which I personally do not think is wrong.. But I agree with Pinwheel's concerns that people may get scammed if they do not take enough precaution. But IMHO Pinwheel is being too harsh.

Any ways good luck to everyone involved in this transaction...

Cheers

When I bought my Bravia from Sony, they had to procure the unit to sell to me. I got it delivered the next day. I do not know if they had to buy it after taking my money or if they really had it in a warehouse as they had mentioned. But I did get the television set for sure.

20 BTC is a large amount. If the seller does come close to selling, he will have to use Escrow or Face to Face. This goes without saying.

This is a place where a lot of libertarians and free speech champions reside. I have not yet distracted from my goal of not being judgmental or partial till date and I have no plans of changing the same.

You and buysellbitco.in are the only 2 people that I have ever recommended to anyone to buy without escrow. That may be the only mistake that I have made and I will not repeat that mistake.

you wrote:

means if somebody offer to sale bitcoins which he does not have, it is OK if he fills demand. It is not OK.  Sale offer of item which you dont have is a SCAM. What I propose to show prove that seller in fact have bitcoins. Nobody did.

I think this sale of 20 btc is a fake, show me this 20btc transaction to prove other wise. If not it is a scam.

What trading rules am I facilitating? If you feel that any of my actions indicate scam, do request a scammer tag.

I do understand the need and necessity for Escrow and fair trade. This is why I provide the service. But people are 100% free to use the service or not.

Frame your accusations correctly. This is not appreciated and does not bear any resemblance to what has been said.

Benson, if you are covering up for scammers, then you are scammer too. you are trying to introduce trading rules which will facilitate scams, that means you are scammer. Last thing any one need here mod scammer.

Went through the threads and here are my satoshis.

As long as the supplier fills the demand, one way or the other, there should be no problems. I know some high stakes sellers, who do take pre-orders on Bitcoin. They are quite transparent though, as this is a very high risk business. Their customers know that it is a pre-order before they buy.

For those who have not seen the magnificent scams of Bitcoin, you may want to visit some of the older threads to understand why Pinwheel, buysellbitco.in, escrow.ms, myself and so many others are so passionate about secure sales.

There have been several senior/ hero member/ escrow services/ banks, etc that have vanished overnight after reaching a certain exit amount. They were always awesome with the smaller deals, and they built their business models around improving the deposit amounts from customers.
We had discussed this during some of our first few meetups about a trust center and we all realized that it is an Achilles heel in Bitcoin.

* No Bitcoin seller will first send out Bitcoins to a new buyer. They have to get cash in hand first due to its non-reversible nature. This may change in time as trust grows.
* Try to ascertain brick and mortar identity of the seller. Else ravage the internet for reputation threads and multiple mentions. If there are no matches or if there are dodgy results that do not feel right, do challenge them on the forums and clear out any misconceptions.
* Use escrow only when certain of the Guarantor. Try to use PGP encryption as far as possible with multiple auth techniques before finalizing the deal. Ensure contracts and terms/ follow up is made in a public thread.
* This is not about an individual sale. Every scam becomes a public debacle and increases the amount of time taken for Bitcoin to reach critical mass. Every scam affects Bitcoins price.

Well i  have  raised this issue  before  and   did  suggest  a  few  solutions  to  it  but  no one  wants  to  use  it  ckz  it becomes  a  change  from  their  normal  routine.  Some  how  i  feel  us  Indians  resists  change.


Any  ways  i  dont know,   if  it is  possible  for  some of us to  meet  up,  may  be  on freenode  and   thrash out  solutions  to  many  problems  plaguing   the indian bitcoin  community . 

Really not sure why it turned out to be such hate thread

Few things I would like to raise here :
1. India is still not a huge market. In small market competition and more providers are good as they will allow the market to grow. You can dominate market later once there actually is market.
2. Escrow is must for Internet deals and it is good that senior members try to advise others to use it. But if someone does not want to use or has other plans or taken precaution its his/her will. Let them do it.

We firmly believe the current market rates in India is hurting bitcoin adoption ( We are also part of this bullshit as of now ) and that we will try to change. Trust me guys the business you see on forums is nothing.

Cheers

Your too sore a guy man. Ive exchanged info with him, and i got enough vouches and i went for a transaction. In retrospect, i should have used a middleman, cause the transaction took longer than a day anyway. Thanks for your initial help, it was actually useful, but you dont have to lose your cool and start spamming like an idiot just because i dont want to buy 200 of your overpriced btc.

In contact with axorb, i transferred the money to him but did it late on saturday, so payment was not confirmed that day. Expecting the coins tomorrow morning. Also, i think the limit on cash deposit is 2lakh, and only the recieving party has to have a pan card associated with his account, which i guess everyone should have. I carried a copy of my pan card, i was told it wasn't necessary to make the deposit (>50,000).

Regards

i  dont  mind  you not  promoting  bitcoin in  india, i  can  understand  the frustration dealing  and  communicating   with people  here.  

Thats  why i  dont  trade BTC  here, to  much  problems.  

you dont  need to  trade  BTC in  order to   contribute  to this  community.  and  any  ways  you have  contributed alot  to  this  community  by  imparting knowledge to  everyone  here. Keep  doing that.  you are  doing  good  that  way, keep it up.  

common buyer him self is a piece of tool here.

I agree, but only buyer should ask for proofs not you and me, if he's paying upfront otherwise escrow is must.

Look if someone is asking money upfront in his bank account without having bitcoins or showing proof then it's called scam because he will might not give bitcoins to buyer.

If someone is buying bitcoins in low, using escrow and selling for high to buyer, Then it's not a scam at all.

is not I made myself clear. It is normal practice on this forum to ask some one to show bitcoin address where he has bitcoins. Many people been asked and shown a prove of that they have bitcoins. I asked two persons here who proposed to sale 20 btc to show me prove you have it.
Nothing offensive here. How you planing to establish bitcoin as a legit biz in India, when this clowns running their tricks and nobody call them out. So I calling them out.

Using escrow is a must of course

if you selling something what you dont have it is a SCAM it is not a business.

I do not have any competition here as I do not sale here, just presenting. 1,4 btc to axorb not count. I sale on mtgox, bitstamp and btc-e, sorry for not promoting bitcoins in India.

Most funny thing in this thread is that person, who do not have money, buying bitcoins from people who do not have bitcoins. Fosbury flop, with me on top.

this thread is complete utter bull shit, I cant remember anything like that. Good luck to all of you in your BUSINESS!!!

Well i agree with subvolatil , if someone is using escrow and giving Bicoins to buyer than it's plain business.

If you disagree with that opinion ^
Feel free to request scam tag for all the peoples who are doing legit group buy's and charging more money from peoples without having asics in hand.

Well pinwheel i  see it differently , if  a   seller  here  does  not have  bitcoin  but  honors  the  deal  by   getting  bitcoins  from another  person at a lower  price. then it  is  ok. but   if  some one  takes  the money and   vanishes  now  that is  a  scam. 

This  what is  happening  is   just  business.

but  you know  some  thing, you  can  destroy  your  competition and  take over  the  market if you  play  it  smart.  may be  its  time  for  you  to  do a  hostile  take over  the  bitcoin market.  you  do have the BTC  volumes , you have  your  rig, and  all you  need to  do is,  start  playing  market  force. 

Just  a  thought .

why not mukundh3 will come out and post names of those who offered bitcoins to him.

for example legendster made a offer,

show us 20 btc dear

---


axorb, any desire to show us your 20 bitcoins

----

any one want to see my bitcoins?  here is my mining address from btcguild only

http://blockchain.info/address/1A83UrfJpETCUmTXRQVHC9g8heamy3nRy5

Who is selling BTC without having it? If proven, that would involve a scam tag or an inquiry at the very least.
And I agree with the fact that anyone trading BTC without Escrow, Reputed sellers or Face to Face, will eventually get scammed like a rockstar.

....