Topic: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. (Read 5629 times)

Disclaimer:  Playing devils advocate here.  And I hope im dead wrong.  

We're back to the peak of the last spike.   Right before the convenient fake bad news came out, and the price conveniently crashed.  All on FUD.

What bad news is going to come out this coming week to make the price crash again?  

------

Genuine adoption and commerce don't make the price go up $250 in a week and a half.  That's got to be a pump.  Agree or disagree?

I used to argue with people who claimed BTC price was being manipulated.  

Then I learned through experience that BOTS, Fake news stories, and whales may be playing around a bit.

We can safely say Bitcoins actual value right now is about $450.   Is the rest just large holders making profits?

I wonder what announcement will go live next week to justify a crash, and make it look like "investor confidence was lost".  

Again - here's to me being very wrong!  

I disagree: It appears to me the ta's are trying to fit btc into their known tried and tested formulas. Some traders may well be buying and selling on that basis but I believe it is wrong. EW analysis has always been applied to single currencies or commodities as have support and resistance lines based on macd related to market volume. However btc is not one thing -it is many things acting together. There are many long term holders in my opinion that believe in the long term value of valuable numbers and these will form a base line of value well above many predicted retracement levels. At the same time there are many who have a psychological value in mind to take a profit that may or may not coincide with a resistance line but I have noticed these are too few to cause retracement as far as ta't predict. Adoption is gaining pace I think and there is a lot of positive news just now so I think we will see buying even at higher prices by those who view btc more as a commodity and look for longer term price maintenance over fiat. so some manipulation yes but not enough at this market cap to count as dumping because it is not in the interest of large holders to devalue their holding significantly. My belief is we will see steps up with small corrections to year end at around $1500-$2000 . Select your strategy on the aspect of btc that suits you and go for it. good luck!.  

-B-

...
The Winklevoss twins for example reportedly own around 200'000 BTC?
...

"Pumps" are mostly only possible with altcoins when you own a nice capital. To really "pump" the bitcoin, I think you should have lots and lots of money.. And, why should you?

Of course.

Price never moves in a straight line.  Markets don't work that way.

  Yes, we've to deal with some drops now and then, but we can't head to the top in one straight line right? That would be really weird and unrealistic. 
 

In principal I tend to agree with the graph 'as a whole'.

Also, it's uncanny how his hand was able to mimic nature so well there - almost as though he had a few drinks or something...

I just have to say that I lol'd at this. I know it's an actual guess, but I can't help but think you used paints drawing tool to do this.

I don't understand why people haven't seen that the trend is upwards over time, even with drops.

I'm kind of expecting something like this assuming the uptrend holds.

I love how so many on this sub forum that expect a "drastic correction" always put their buy-in targets at $80-100 below where the market will likely go.  And then they are left scratching their heads when that drastic of a correction never happens. 

I believe that the new ~600-ish support is going to be very tough to break now.

Indeed, I am watching the 530-550 zone closely for a base to take off to the moon from. We've been feeling overbought for several days, and may need to shake out some more weak hands before doing so.

Amen.

Conspiracy theorists are fun. People have always made up bullshit stories to explain things they don't understand. Thunder is because Thor is riding a wagon. That creaking upstairs has to be a ghost. And apparently every time someone loses out because they risked way too much of their own money in a f**king volatile market, it's because of some magical whale bot or something like that.

Once you learn that your losses are nobody's fault but your own, then you can start to improve. But not before. This applies to everything in life not just bitcoin.

I'm kind of expecting something like this assuming the uptrend holds.

It's called a thin market. I've followed some of your posts on here and I thought you would understand that. Look at the value of the inside spread on the S&P 500 Futures contract compared to the inside spread of bitstamp and it's a joke. We're talking many orders of magnitude different. It takes peanuts to move bitcoin around (comparatively speaking).

The rest of the comments in this thread tell me that most people on this forum haven't got the first clue about market dynamics.

Ultimately yes, but I think we will see $550 before we see $700.

I don't think it was a pump. I think it's a sign that we're obviously on our way back! Back to the top!

It's about $50.- less worth now than yesterday, but hey, I expected that. We can't head to an alltime high without some stabilizations or how you would like to call them. I think we'll be above the $675 soon enough again.

It just dropped to $618 and you're still telling me im wrong?

I want to know who the assholes are that are screwing with the price and making bitcoin so volatile, making it lose the respect of the masses for their own financial gain.

-B-

I wouldn't call it an "actual value". Its called THE BOTTOM, and its called that for a reason.

Alot of the money that is coming back in, is probably not "new" money. More like old money that changed to smarter hands.
Most smart traders went into fiat in the $800-1000+ range and waited for a bottom to re-enter.. They saw the 430-450 range where most people refused to sell anymore, and it settled there. Now the profits for traders from a few months ago, is flowing back in, along with some new money as well.

We also had nothing but good news when we were in the $400 range, so that had to instill confidence in people to re-invest back in.

-Brian

We can safely say Bitcoins actual value right now is about $450.  

this is fucking willy bot in action

cant be the real price

people keep using the words "market manipulation" here. I don't think these words mean what you think they mean.

Then you're a special kind of dumb.

-B-

I suspect that there were a whole lot of leveraged long traders looking to cash out their trades at around the $700 mark. Now they are waiting for Bitcoin to get back up to the $680 level. But if the longs are maxed out, who is going to take Bitcoin back up there with sufficient volume in the Bid wall for these guys to cash out? If there has been new investment that has come to Bitcoin then most of it is already in for the time being. I suspect that this market shake down could go a good bit further down than $618, as buying pressure fails to take Bitcoin back up to it's high and the leveraged longs grow increasingly twitchy. Owning an asset outright and waiting on the market to come back to you is one thing, but being in debt due to a leveraged position as the market goes against your trade is a different psychological can of worms altogether.

down to $618 is plenty of a correction... you're only going to get so much of a correction during a bull spike anyway.  
And you don't necessarily have to wait.  Amateur mistake is waiting for the correction that never comes and missing
out on the trend...(and then later chasing it)... better to put on at least a partial position if you see a breakout
is happening. 

This is in the context of a larger move over the next few weeks, say...
(Relative to $440, price already moved a lot to $650...so if you missed that move, you just missed it)

Let's look at the facts :

No bad news for weeks.

Perhaps. But if you were sitting on sidelines earlier today with a fair chunk of capital and bullish on Bitcoin. Would you be looking to invest long term at $650, after a 35% rise in less than a week without any meaningful correction, or would you be waiting on 'the correction' to occur before entering market. Corrections are important psychologically for bull markets whether the majority of players are looking at Elliott Waves or not.

Question is, is a 30 minute flash crash sufficient and was $618 the bottom of 'the correction', or does their need to be more correcting/consolidating before sidelines capital feels comfortable to enter the market?

And since few people are looking at those waves
(and since they can be interpreted differently),
people aren't engineering the market that way.

If whales are in fact trying to move the market
(I wouldn't even call that market manipulation), they are using
a much simpler strategy of just trying to create
momentum in favor of their trades.

Disclaimer:  Playing devils advocate here.  And I hope im dead wrong.  

We're back to the peak of the last spike.   Right before the convenient fake bad news came out, and the price conveniently crashed.  All on FUD.

What bad news is going to come out this coming week to make the price crash again?  

------

Genuine adoption and commerce don't make the price go up $250 in a week and a half.  That's got to be a pump.  Agree or disagree?

I used to argue with people who claimed BTC price was being manipulated.  

Then I learned through experience that BOTS, Fake news stories, and whales may be playing around a bit.

We can safely say Bitcoins actual value right now is about $450.   Is the rest just large holders making profits?

I wonder what announcement will go live next week to justify a crash, and make it look like "investor confidence was lost".  

Again - here's to me being very wrong!  

-B-

That's simply algorithmic trading and there's nothing dishonest about it.     As Bitcoin grows, expect more of it just like algorithmic trading has become the norm in the forex market.

I agree. Been watching the action on the way up and it stinks of shit. Looks to me like someone swishing Bitcoins around in order to engineer BUY signal after BUY signal, and then this crash which coincided with the swaps on Bitfinex (main USD leverage exchange) hitting extortionate rates and a bit of selling pressure.

Probably, Bitcoin has always been like this. So there are two ways of looking at this. There is the 'Fuck them guys' point of view and there is also the point of view that perhaps we are now getting our textbook engineered correction to set us up for Wave (iii) of Wave (III), which as any textbook will tell you, is thee ultimate time to enter market? A textbook correction from a $420-$680 rise which would bring around the conditions for the onset of a wave (iii) of a Wave (III), would be mid to upper $500's. Might take a while to get their but now the sharks at Bitfinex have turned the market psychology on it's head, perhaps there is a good chance that we will get their.

It just dropped to $618 and you're still telling me im wrong?

I want to know who the assholes are that are screwing with the price and making bitcoin so volatile, making it lose the respect of the masses for their own financial gain.

-B-

If you have say 500 BTC, you could write some code to make use of the bitstamp api (for example) to automatically price yourself to buy a tad higher than 'the majority' of 'bids' and to sell a tad lower than the majority of 'asks'. It's by no means an exact science and you need a hefty amount of coins to 'manipulate' the market this way. This has definitely been happening yesterday and today. I was watching the bots in action with countless transactions selling 1.899989898 BTC then a few minutes later buying back the same amount of BTC for a slight gain.

Scale this up and you have a hefty hand to manipulate the market with. Once you have gained too many coins because you're algorithm is not quite right, you dump. Or if you sold too many coins because the algorithm is not quite right, you buy. Then you tweak your algorithm and start again.

So you're mad because you don't have enough money? I'm raging right now because I'm not a billionaire. I'm also pretty pissed off because I didn't win the lottery 3 times in a row.

where does fair whale play end and "market manipulation" begin anyway?
Who can really say.

This not like Gox style manipulation where they could change the price
to whatever they wanted since no one could get their money out.

it pisses me off only becuase I haven't got $250k worth of coins to 'play' about with

I've made more posts than you here.

$450? Based on what? Your feelings?

I think what you are trying to establish is a firm foundation value. Without future cash flows to discount or a balance sheet you can't really have a firm foundation value. This is a speculative investment, everything is based on supply and demand. BTC is a castle in the air, and we all hope for a greater fool to buy in later and make the price go higher. Plenty of great investments were speculative castles in the air, like MSFT back in the 80s. All this is outlined in Random Walk Down Wall Street, and basically my point here is that nobody has a freaking clue where BTC is headed. It's very likely there is manipulation happening, but that exists in all markets where money is trading hands.

Ok have it your way - I see your new here...

Yes, I'm saying that isn't happening, because there is no evidence to suggest that it is.

how are you defining "market manipulation"?  

How do you know its not a large seller taking profits from
a trade that started weeks ago in the $400s?

How do you know its many traders taking profits because
price has entered overbought territory?

How do you know its not miners unloading coins?

This is market manipulation for sure - it pisses me off only becuase I haven't got $250k worth of coins to 'play' about with and join in the quick buck gains...

its a test of the bot
 when finished price drop again 

I understand it as an atificial pump from bitstamp or someone else, there were many large purchases on the high price for no reason, no big deal dish accepting bitcoin...Someone(s) so wealthy to make this pump would be schooled enough to know he was buying on the wrong momment.

Disclaimer:  Playing devils advocate here.  And I hope im dead wrong.  

We're back to the peak of the last spike.   Right before the convenient fake bad news came out, and the price conveniently crashed.  All on FUD.

What bad news is going to come out this coming week to make the price crash again?  

------

Genuine adoption and commerce don't make the price go up $250 in a week and a half.  That's got to be a pump.  Agree or disagree?

I used to argue with people who claimed BTC price was being manipulated.  

Then I learned through experience that BOTS, Fake news stories, and whales may be playing around a bit.

We can safely say Bitcoins actual value right now is about $450.   Is the rest just large holders making profits?

I wonder what announcement will go live next week to justify a crash, and make it look like "investor confidence was lost".  

Again - here's to me being very wrong!  

-B-

Dumped.  I suspect a pump and dump.

Disclaimer:  Playing devils advocate here.  And I hope im dead wrong.  

We're back to the peak of the last spike.   Right before the convenient fake bad news came out, and the price conveniently crashed.  All on FUD.

What bad news is going to come out this coming week to make the price crash again?  

------

Genuine adoption and commerce don't make the price go up $250 in a week and a half.  That's got to be a pump.  Agree or disagree?

I used to argue with people who claimed BTC price was being manipulated.  

Then I learned through experience that BOTS, Fake news stories, and whales may be playing around a bit.

We can safely say Bitcoins actual value right now is about $450.   Is the rest just large holders making profits?

I wonder what announcement will go live next week to justify a crash, and make it look like "investor confidence was lost".  

Again - here's to me being very wrong!  

-B-

Yes, you are wrong.

Disclaimer:  Playing devils advocate here.  And I hope im dead wrong.  

We're back to the peak of the last spike.   Right before the convenient fake bad news came out, and the price conveniently crashed.  All on FUD.

What bad news is going to come out this coming week to make the price crash again?  

------

Genuine adoption and commerce don't make the price go up $300 in a week and a half.  That's got to be a pump.  Agree or disagree?

I used to argue with people who claimed BTC price was being manipulated.  

Then I learned through experience that BOTS, Fake news stories, and whales may be playing around a bit.

We can safely say Bitcoins actual value right now is about $450.   Is the rest just large holders making profits?

I wonder what announcement will go live next week to justify a crash, and make it look like "investor confidence was lost".  

Again - here's to me being very wrong! 

-B-