Topic: Baker forced to make gay wedding cakes and undergo sensitivity training (Read 2247 times)

If some business owner is being a jerk who refuses to sell me something, I just take my money to a business that welcomes it and maybe write a blog entry about the total snit the business owner threw. You'd think that the negative publicity would get the business owner's attention as fast as a lawsuit would with less legal expense. But apparently this gay couple doesn't think this way because being gay is apparently a "protected class" now.

Sure watch this video: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/embed/video/1133730.html

My answer is Yes, if they are willing to provide alternative options of similar quality, its not like the owner denied them service outright he just wouldn't bake them a cake a single item in his store because of his own personal beliefs on gay marriage but was willing to make them something else off his menu instead.

It's like saying I won't draw a painting honoring war veterans because i'm a pacifist, but will draw you anything else however because the government doesn't like that idea, forces the artist to draw the mural and report their progress, it takes the step that violates the value of individual choice and religious freedom and takes it a step too far towards a forced conformity.  

You cannot use the law to force Christians to participate in the union of same sexes, if you do then it goes into a greater question of do a certain class of people believe they need special rights and if they do which side should be considered the minority.

Is this really a protection of gay rights as argued by the government in the majority opinion, or is this really an intrusion on religious freedom and personal choice that forces an ideology on a person.

In this case the accused party had to undergo sensitivity training and were forced to provide service, the point is that even if you disagree with what he did, the government does not need to force someone to serve a group of individuals a certain good or product, especially in the case where alternatives are made available to that party.

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Additional notes:
Of Similar quality is a reference to the Jim Crow Laws of Separate but Equal service the reason they failed was not because they were segregated but because the quality differed. In the above case if the quality remains the same for an alternative say cupcakes then their is no just cause for the judgement.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separate_but_equal

An argument under the Civil Rights Law by definition does not extend to Gay Rights unless applied as a Race of People in my knowledge of American Law, however the Provision on Religious Freedom is clearly stated under Title 2.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964#By_party_and_region

Title II
Outlawed discrimination based on race, color, religion or national origin in hotels, motels, restaurants, theaters, and all other public accommodations engaged in interstate commerce; exempted private clubs without defining the term "private".

Since becoming gay is in essence a choice although that may be debatable instead of a race, my dissenting opinion is that religion would take legal precedent.
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Either way if this went to a Supreme Court Decision it would be an interesting case to handle and looks like we are in for a round two.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2823337/Gay-cake-row-end-court-Ashers-Baking-Company-refuses-compensation-request-Equality-Commission.html

'The Equality Commission has taken four months to dream up new grounds on which to pursue the McArthur family, claiming that they’ve breached political discrimination laws.'

'It is simply baffling for a body supposedly working for equality to be threatening a Christian family, all because of a cake,' said spokesman Simon Calvert.

He told the MailOnline: 'You can't put a price on conscience.
'The Equality Commission seems to think that some people's conscience is worth more than others.'

Mr Calvert said the bakery had received support from people who do not believe the McArthur's views, but nevertheless respect his right to voice them.
He also said thousands of dollars had been raised to support the bakery in its legal fight.
'This is a David-verse-Goliath battle against a state-backed organisation,' he said.

In the past the courts have said it is wrong for Christians to refuse to serve gay people on grounds of their sexuality.
Judges have also said it is right for Christians to be fired from their jobs for refusing to take part in same-sex civil partnership ceremonies or for saying they would not give sex therapy to same-sex couples.

But the challenge to the Christian-run Ashers Baking Company is the first likely legal case in which anyone has been told it is against the law to refuse to take part in gay rights publicity campaigns.

A July ComRes poll found that six in 10 Britons though it was ‘disproportionately heavy-handed’ to drag the bakery company to court because of its beliefs.
 

Wow! You managed to use the two most over-used words in the English language in one sentence. The owner never expresses a "fear" of homosexuals, so how exactly is he homophobic? Phobic = phobia = fear of something. Just because someone does not agree with someone else's sexual preference does not make them afraid. Also, racist? How do you get that the owner is in any way racist? Did I miss the part about the gay couple he refused to serve being black or asian or hispanic or whatever?

Giving a "special price" and "capacity issues" are the only options what we have if we don't want to serve certain groups but want to avoid the libnazis as well.

I disagree with his sentiments on homosexuality but it is his business to operate as he sees fit. Turning away customers because they happen to be gay is pretty short sighted. The requirements placed on him are draconian and completely contrary to the concept of liberty.

Are people 'forced' to serve black people or can they deny service based on their religious bullshit?

He's a homophobic twat clearly but I think forcing somebody to go through 'sensitivity' training is a step too far, this article alone showing them being indignant about what they've done alone will probably shut down their business by itself, I certainly wouldn't go there and it'd be the same if they had that attitude towards other ethnic groups.

Let them be homophobic racists all by themselves, see how far their 'religious' beliefs take them.

Perhaps, but I can charge you whatever I want.

Don't like my price?  Go someplace else.

I'll pose it as a law argument since I like multisourcing

“I would pose this question to the admin law judge or the tribunal — ‘Is this commission prepared to force a pacifist to paint a mural for a disabled U.S. veteran honoring whatever war he or she fought in and is disabled because of?’,” she asked.
“Are we to force that painter to paint a mural celebrating [war]?”
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http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/06/04/the-bibleoverrules-all-that-govt-says-baker-must-make-wedding-cakes-for-gays-but-hes-not-backing-down/

If he has his ethical principles and is not discriminating against their business but just making them a cake then that's different than flat out refusing to serve them as customers, a person has the right of who they serve as a customer.

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Fox News Opinion
Classes of people!  Since when have gays become an ethnic or racial group, like Blacks or Jews, that warrant special protection to prevent discrimination?  Gays come from all races, nationalities, ethnicity groups, and so on.  To claim gays are a class of people opens the door to extreme abuse of civil rights in general.  What?  If some company declines to employ me, I can claim to be gay, that the company wouldn't hire me because I am gay, and then file a law suit based on discrimination!  What's next?  Affirmative Action for Gays?  Every company must hire 'x' number of gays in order to achieve gay equality!

I hope after the Supreme Court decision today this baker SUES..  We may not like his beliefs, but he has a right to freedom of religion.  Unless we're already a totalarian state and I missed it happening.

When did you choose the homophobic lifestyle.... or did it choose you?

What I would like to know is why are gays part of a protected class? According to this logic it looks like Christians should also be part of a protected class.

Not wanting to participate in  a gay wedding is not a discrimination, its expressing free will, if thats ok with you oh LORD OF THE GAYZ.
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As an aside though from Phillips mouth he would deny pedophiles as well but bake cakes for dogs same logic.
Unless you wouldn't mind him making a pedophile cake, the question is when we start moving from treating them as an ethnic group, or if they are considered a protected class of society.

If they are a protected class of society, then Christians as well being counter cultural to societys norms in this case deserve that very same protection.

Phillips admitted he had turned away other same-sex couples as a matter of policy. The CCRD’s decision noted evidence in the record that Phillips had expressed willingness to take a cake order for the “marriage” of two dogs, but not for the commitment ceremony of two women, and that he would not make a cake for a same-sex couple’s wedding celebration “just as he would not be willing to make a pedophile cake.”

http://aclu-co.org/court-rules-bakery-illegally-discriminated-against-gay-couple/

You're not free to discriminate.

I can't not serve you just because you're 'different' to me or because I don't like something that you are.

When are we pushing the line to far
(In the article he denied making a gay couple a cake per his religious beliefs but offered to make them anything else but the cake and it's not like they couldn't go somewhere else)
In turn they filed a lawsuit against the cake owner
He has to submit quarterly reports to the government about his selling of cakes
Since when has America been about forcing rehabilitation to people who have opposing views, so much for the land of the free.

Additional Background Information:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/embed/video/1133730.html
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A family owned bakery has been ordered to make wedding cakes for gay couples and guarantee that its staff be given comprehensive training on Colorado’s anti-discrimination laws after the state’s Civil Rights Commission determined the Christian baker violated the law by refusing to bake a wedding cake for a same-sex couple.

Jack Phillips, the owner of Masterpiece Cakeshop, in Lakewood, Colorado was directed to change his store policies immediately and force his staff to attend the training sessions. For the next two years, Phillips will also be required to submit quarterly reports to the commission to confirm that he has not turned away customers based on their sexual orientation.

“They are turning people of faith into religious refugees. ... Is this the society that we want to live in – where people of faith are driven out of business?”
- Nicolle Martin, attorney, Alliance Defending Freedom

Think of it as reverse conversion therapy (or straight man’s rehab) so that the state can mandate diversity through conformity.

The plight of Jack Phillips and his family is something I write about in my new book, “God Less America.” His story of religious persecution is one of many that I document.

Nicolle Martin, an attorney with Alliance Defending Freedom, called the ruling Orwellian and said they are considering an appeal.

“They are turning people of faith into religious refugees,” Martin told me. “Is this the society that we want to live in – where people of faith are driven out of business?”

“There’s a collision between religious liberty and the gay rights movement,” Martin told me.

“This collision is coming to the forefront almost every day. Somebody is losing their liberty, their job or both.”

But thank goodness for someone like Jack Phillips, who refused to capitulate to the government’s demands.

“My God is bigger than any bullies they’ve got,” he said. “I don’t worry about it. I honor my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and be true to what He wants me to do.”

And the Civil Rights Commission is going to have a mighty hard time trying to “rehabilitate” Phillips and his staff.

“My 87-year-old mom works here and she says she’s not being rehabilitated,” he said.

Martin said the Alliance Defending Freedom will “continue to stand with Jack against overreach and tyranny by the state.”

“Jack has gone out on a limb and taken this stand – and not capitulated to the government’s demands,” she said. “That speaks volumes about him.”

And should the highest court in the land force Jack to do the bidding of homosexuals?

“There’s civil disobedience,” Phillips told me. “We’ll see what happens. I’m not giving up my faith. Too many people have died for this faith to give it up that easily.”

Meanwhile, the bullying tactics of the militant gay rights community have not hampered the bakery’s bottom line. They’ve gotten so much business from the sales of cookies and brownies, they’ve temporarily stopped making wedding cakes.

“Obey Christ rather than worry about what man can do to you,” Phillips said.

There you have it, folks. In Colorado, you can’t have your cake and religious beliefs, too.

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http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/06/03/baker-forced-to-make-gay-wedding-cakes-undergo-sensitivity-training-after/