Ballet wallets | Bitcointalksearch.org

belov

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Quote from: Z-tight on August 18, 2023, 03:43:06 AM

That is how the customer support of so many services respond, i have not had any chat with their customer support because i don't plan on buying their product, by the way everything about the wallet is on their site and you can learn more from the posts in this topic, why contacting support?

Well. It was a funny incident. They added a new feature to create NFT TEXT and it wasn't working. I asked the support why it wasn't working, and bot replied with a story about cucumbers in the garden. It was amusing, but the feature started working after that.

_act_

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Quote from: Yamane_Keto on August 18, 2023, 04:52:01 AM

Unless you read the code or trust someone who read the code, nothing is guaranteed.

This is not even about if a wallet is open source or close source. Even if a paper wallet or collectible or whatever you call it is open source, so far that the seed phrase and passphrase are generated by a company for you, that means you have to trust them and this is one of the ways some bitcoin owners lost their bitcoin.

Yamane_Keto

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Quote from: belov on August 17, 2023, 09:05:32 PM

Of course it's scary that someone has a copy of the keys, but here it's all based on BobbyLee's personal word... Isn't it?

What will BobbyLee's personal word do for you, it will not return your money and will not pay the expenses for you, if you are skeptical, even by 1%, do not buy a hardware wallet, no one forces you. contact the support team may give you answers, whether you trust them or not. Unless you read the code or trust someone who read the code, nothing is guaranteed.

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Quote from: belov on August 17, 2023, 09:05:32 PM

Has anyone tried the help desk? And is it possible to get through to a live person?

They don't provide a human support representative. They have all the draft answers to potential questions. After all, it's just a paper wallet as usual that can't do anything, which likely won't be a very specific product issue that they haven't thought about beforehand. Even if you file a return, they may also have bot answers.

Z-tight

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Quote from: belov on August 17, 2023, 09:05:32 PM

Of course it's scary that someone has a copy of the keys, but here it's all based on BobbyLee's personal word... Isn't it?

The manufacturers surely won't tell you that they have a copy of your keys, if they do nobody is going to buy their product then, but we don't know if they do, maybe they don't; and it is not only on the creator Bobby Lee, but all the creation team, if you are using this type of wallet you are trusting all of them. If you want to use a safe wallet without a single point of failure, i would not recommend this wallet.

Quote from: belov on August 17, 2023, 09:05:32 PM

That's not what confused me. I went to customer support and I feel like I've been dumped on an AI. Has anyone tried the help desk? And is it possible to get through to a live person?

That is how the customer support of so many services respond, i have not had any chat with their customer support because i don't plan on buying their product, by the way everything about the wallet is on their site and you can learn more from the posts in this topic, why contacting support?

belov

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Of course it's scary that someone has a copy of the keys, but here it's all based on BobbyLee's personal word... Isn't it?

That's not what confused me. I went to customer support and I feel like I've been dumped on an AI. Has anyone tried the help desk? And is it possible to get through to a live person?

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Quote from: 123Dave on February 15, 2023, 09:29:54 PM

I have bought almost every type of hardware wallet, I’ve been using ballet wallets. In conjunction with a ledger. I really like the ballet the best. Just looking for feedback

You already sold hardware wallets, then try another wallet like Ballet. Why? don't you enjoy the features of the hardware wallet? Are you not satisfied with its use?

You can almost see in the recommendation of the majority community here in the forum that it is a hardware wallet that is always mentioned as one of the most beautiful and safe wallets that can store cryptocurrencies and then try something that has not been proven and tested compared to the hardware wallet.

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Quote from: Saint-loup on February 25, 2023, 03:30:23 PM

No I'm not saying it is the same thing as a hardware wallet or it can replace it, I'm just saying the pro version is safe because Ballet will never know what passphrase you have chosen to generate your BIP38 key. But I agree this version is very expensive, even if you get 3 paper wallets made of steel for the price. Unfortunately hardware wallets are fragile and break down easily, it means you need to use a paper along with them in order to back up your seed when you are using them. But paper is fragile too. That's why some people could prefer a paper wallet in steel with an encrypted key to hold their Bitcoins. It allows them to access their funds at any time without using a device they have to trust, and without dealing with any complex derivation path or address format.

The Ballet Pro wallet is not the same as Ballet wallet which we all know and very clear to us all. The Pro is very expensive and I will consider getting a hardware wallet instead.

Also that this thread is not about the Ballet Pro wallet, it is about the less expensive one which is Ballet wallet, the wallet is created based on trust, which I do not have, which bitcoin users need not to have inorder to stay safe with their coins and to also encourage others to be safe.

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Quote from: Charles-Tim on February 23, 2023, 10:45:14 PM

How is dkbit98 wrong? Because there is a pro version that you can use to add your own passphrase, that means it is an hardware wallet? You are wrong. Ballet wallet, be it the normal or the expensive one (pro version), they are both paper wallets, they are not hardware wallets.

Quote from: dkbit98 on February 23, 2023, 06:13:44 PM

No, it's not wrong because I was not talking about ''PRO'' version that is much more expensive $299, compared to normal Ballet that starts from $35... that is almost nine times more expensive!

I do not know if it is true, that it comes in three packages, which makes it three of the paper wallet in metal, that would be $99.66. Still pretty expensive and better to just go for a hardware wallet instead.

Quote from: dkbit98 on February 23, 2023, 06:13:44 PM

In fact they don't even call it a hardware wallet on their website, they just say ''Cryptocurrency wallet'' or ''Cold Storage Crypto wallet''.
You can't change or add new addresses,so this is just glorified paper-like wallet, that can only serve as cool collectible for me.

It is not a hardware wallet, it is using the principles that paper wallets are using to operate.

No I'm not saying it is the same thing as a hardware wallet or it can replace it, I'm just saying the pro version is safe because Ballet will never know what passphrase you have chosen to generate your BIP38 key. But I agree this version is very expensive, even if you get 3 paper wallets made of steel for the price. Unfortunately hardware wallets are fragile and break down easily, it means you need to use a paper along with them in order to back up your seed when you are using them. But paper is fragile too. That's why some people could prefer a paper wallet in steel with an encrypted key to hold their Bitcoins. It allows them to access their funds at any time without using a device they have to trust, and without dealing with any complex derivation path or address format.

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Quote from: Pmalek on February 25, 2023, 02:17:04 AM

Quote from: mk4 on February 22, 2023, 10:32:39 PM

1. As a collectible. The same reason why some people bought Casascius coins back in the day.

That's ok and I have no argument with that. Get one to add to your collection and maybe sell it in a few years if someone offers nice money for it. But if it's a collectible, don't use it for storing your main stash or a big chunk of it. And don't call it a secure hardware wallet because it isn't.

that's how i see it too - you should completely separate and distinguish between these two things 'collectible' and 'cold/store wallet'.
i would not distribute my entire Bitcoin stake on different collectibles but use a secure hardware/cold wallet variant.
how i proceed with my collectibles is as follows, i only load them with the amount mentioned on the collectible and i am 100% aware of what can happen with this amount in the worst case.

Pmalek

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Quote from: mk4 on February 22, 2023, 10:32:39 PM

1. As a collectible. The same reason why some people bought Casascius coins back in the day.

That's ok and I have no argument with that. Get one to add to your collection and maybe sell it in a few years if someone offers nice money for it. But if it's a collectible, don't use it for storing your main stash or a big chunk of it. And don't call it a secure hardware wallet because it isn't.

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Quote from: 123Dave on February 16, 2023, 06:10:53 AM

Only the worst b/c you haven’t generated your own keys?

Not your keys, not your bitcoin. Trusting keys that were generated by others is just hoping that the person who generated them is honest and remains so.

Quote from: 123Dave on February 16, 2023, 06:10:53 AM

Some people don’t know how to generate private keys.

It's very easy to do, your Ledger can generate a seed for you, just read the documentation on how to set up a new wallet using your Ledger. You have no security with your current setup.

Charles-Tim

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Quote from: Saint-loup on February 23, 2023, 05:58:02 PM

Quote from: dkbit98 on February 16, 2023, 04:39:15 PM

Quote from: 123Dave on February 15, 2023, 09:29:54 PM

I’ve been using ballet wallets. In conjunction with a ledger. I really like the ballet the best. Just looking for feedback

Ballet wallet can not really be considered a hardware wallet, it's more like collectibles item, and it is not secure enough to be good cold wallet, despite what developers are saying.
Someone else generated private keys and they know about them, so you need to trust them and everyone in manufacturing chain... that is a lot of weak points.
If you like card format for hardware wallets, there are better options you can explore, some of them are even open source.

No it's wrong, if you buy the PRO version, it's totally safe because they will only generate the encrypted private key from the BIP38 intermediate code you will generate with your passphrase and your own entropy before sending it to them. So they will never know your passphrase and won't be able to find it in any way. https://www.balletcrypto.org

Quote

The encrypted private key can only be decrypted by the user-created passphrase. This is a trustless, two-factor security design based on the Bitcoin BIP38 open-source standard. The process utilizes advanced cryptography but the complexity is hidden from the user. You only need to follow a few basic steps. First, create a passphrase and use an open-source software tool to generate a BIP38 intermediate code. Then send the intermediate code to us and we manufacture a wallet with an encrypted private key that can only be decrypted by the passphrase you used to generate the intermediate code. A BIP38 confirmation code is engraved on each wallet so you can cryptographically verify that the encrypted private key can actually be decrypted by your passphrase.

https://www.ballet.com/pro/

How is dkbit98 wrong? Because there is a pro version that you can use to add your own passphrase, that means it is an hardware wallet? You are wrong. Ballet wallet, be it the normal or the expensive one (pro version), they are both paper wallets, they are not hardware wallets.

Quote from: dkbit98 on February 23, 2023, 06:13:44 PM

No, it's not wrong because I was not talking about ''PRO'' version that is much more expensive $299, compared to normal Ballet that starts from $35... that is almost nine times more expensive!

I do not know if it is true, that it comes in three packages, which makes it three of the paper wallet in metal, that would be $99.66. Still pretty expensive and better to just go for a hardware wallet instead.

Quote from: dkbit98 on February 23, 2023, 06:13:44 PM

In fact they don't even call it a hardware wallet on their website, they just say ''Cryptocurrency wallet'' or ''Cold Storage Crypto wallet''.
You can't change or add new addresses,so this is just glorified paper-like wallet, that can only serve as cool collectible for me.

It is not a hardware wallet, it is using the principles that paper wallets are using to operate.

dkbit98

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Quote from: Saint-loup on February 23, 2023, 05:58:02 PM

No it's wrong, if you buy the PRO version, it's totally safe because they will only generate the encrypted private key from the BIP38 intermediate code you will generate with your passphrase and your own entropy before sending it to them. So they will never know your passphrase and won't be able to find it in any way. https://www.balletcrypto.org

No, it's not wrong because I was not talking about ''PRO'' version that is much more expensive $299, compared to normal Ballet that starts from $35... that is almost nine times more expensive!
I certainly don't think this is worth so much, and I still don't consider addition of passphrase safe enough to call Ballet a real hardware wallet.
In fact they don't even call it a hardware wallet on their website, they just say ''Cryptocurrency wallet'' or ''Cold Storage Crypto wallet''.
You can't change or add new addresses,so this is just glorified paper-like wallet, that can only serve as cool collectible for me.

Saint-loup

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Quote from: dkbit98 on February 16, 2023, 04:39:15 PM

Quote from: 123Dave on February 15, 2023, 09:29:54 PM

I’ve been using ballet wallets. In conjunction with a ledger. I really like the ballet the best. Just looking for feedback

Ballet wallet can not really be considered a hardware wallet, it's more like collectibles item, and it is not secure enough to be good cold wallet, despite what developers are saying.
Someone else generated private keys and they know about them, so you need to trust them and everyone in manufacturing chain... that is a lot of weak points.
If you like card format for hardware wallets, there are better options you can explore, some of them are even open source.

No it's wrong, if you buy the PRO version, it's totally safe because they will only generate the encrypted private key from the BIP38 intermediate code you will generate with your passphrase and your own entropy before sending it to them. So they will never know your passphrase and won't be able to find it in any way. https://www.balletcrypto.org

Quote

The encrypted private key can only be decrypted by the user-created passphrase. This is a trustless, two-factor security design based on the Bitcoin BIP38 open-source standard. The process utilizes advanced cryptography but the complexity is hidden from the user. You only need to follow a few basic steps. First, create a passphrase and use an open-source software tool to generate a BIP38 intermediate code. Then send the intermediate code to us and we manufacture a wallet with an encrypted private key that can only be decrypted by the passphrase you used to generate the intermediate code. A BIP38 confirmation code is engraved on each wallet so you can cryptographically verify that the encrypted private key can actually be decrypted by your passphrase.

https://www.ballet.com/pro/

mk4

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Quote from: PrivacyG on February 22, 2023, 02:21:58 PM

There is something I do not understand. Why do some people like buying Bitcoin Wallets that have already been generated.

1. As a collectible. The same reason why some people bought Casascius coins back in the day.
2. Ignorance (mostly the case I think). Some people think they're buying a hardware wallet or something.

PrivacyG

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There is something I do not understand. Why do some people like buying Bitcoin Wallets that have already been generated. This seems like a big disaster waiting to happen. I understand we have some Hardware Wallets such as Trezor that securely generate a Seed and you get to use Bitcoin safely.

But my dude. Buying a Ballet is like a lottery. We only recently had a scam and this was a household name for Bitcoin item collectors. Ballet can pull a scam any time. May be not even Ballet themselves but some body working there. Do you know how many people are working in their company? Do you know and trust any of them. There are so many red flags.

If you want to buy a Hardware Wallet and secure your Coins. Please resort to Open Source Hardware Wallets like Trezor. Worst case, buy a Ledger. But Paper Wallets, no way.

-
Regards,
PrivacyG

Pmalek

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Quote from: Pearls Before Swine on February 16, 2023, 06:32:42 AM

As far as I know Ballet has never been linked to any scam report, but still.

One good and big scam is enough. They don't have to get involved in multiple small ones. Remember the yogg situation whenever you want someone else to generate your keys for you.

Still, this is a great way of physically gifting bitcoin to someone. It can be their first experience with crypto or as a gift to someone who appreciates crypto collectibles. What I don't understand is when OP said they are using Ballet in connection with Ledger. How and why? The Ballet wallet has a standalone app, where does Ledger come into the picture? Maybe he is running a multi-sig setup for some reason or funding the Ballet wallet from crypto he is holding on a Ledger.

dkbit98

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Quote from: 123Dave on February 15, 2023, 09:29:54 PM

I have bought almost every type of hardware wallet,

Why the heck would you do that? You are making some collection or what? Roll Eyes

Quote from: 123Dave on February 15, 2023, 09:29:54 PM

I’ve been using ballet wallets. In conjunction with a ledger. I really like the ballet the best. Just looking for feedback

Ballet wallet can not really be considered a hardware wallet, it's more like collectibles item, and it is not secure enough to be good cold wallet, despite what developers are saying.
Someone else generated private keys and they know about them, so you need to trust them and everyone in manufacturing chain... that is a lot of weak points.
If you like card format for hardware wallets, there are better options you can explore, some of them are even open source.

cygan

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i also know the ballet wallets and own in my ccc collection almost all editions as BTC versions that have come out until today
there are not only the wallets made of steel but also of plastic
basically it's a matter of trust on both sides, if you store your satoshis on these wallets. everybody has to decide for himself - i personally find them very successful
the addresses/keys are produced in the bip38 standard

buwaytress

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Yeah I bought this one a couple of years ago (auction here).

I definitely don't think these types of collectibles are fully safe/secure, as pointed out above, you're only trusting the manufacturer who hopefully is completely removed from the maker, but even so. Almost every collectible I've ever bought has been given away, hopefully to spread the virus Wink

This one I kept though, but might give it away some day. I bought it partly because of the culture of where I come from. It has some significance in the serial # (I know how important it is to people) and I'm pretty sure at some point down the line, I would be able to recoup the BTC once Bitcoin (and these kinds of wallets) become more prominent.

And the Lees, anyway, I feel are decent people...

mk4

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Quote from: 123Dave on February 16, 2023, 06:10:53 AM

Only the worst b/c you haven’t generated your own keys? Some people don’t know how to generate private keys.

Yes, it's as bad as unnecessary storing of funds on exchanges.

As with generate private keys, you literally just tap/click create wallet on wallet apps(preferably on your hardware wallet). It's the same thing.

NotATether

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Quote from: Pearls Before Swine on February 16, 2023, 06:32:42 AM

Quote from: Charles-Tim on February 15, 2023, 11:21:10 PM

It is made of stainless steel.

I am no physicist but I just slapped a magnet onto my dogecoin Ballet and it did not stick. Some stainless steel grades are magnetic and some aren't, I do know that but I thought it was aluminum. Ahem. I tried my best to bend the thing and could not without using excessive force so I guess you're right.

The stainless steel Ballet wallet types use 304 Stainless Steel - it's inside the tech specs. And 304 Stainless Steel is not magnetic (see this), but other variations such as 409 and 430 are indeed magnetic - as you probably know already - but are more susceptible to corrosion and hence damage. No wonder why Ballet opted out of using them.

One of the virtues that working with CAD products has thought me over the last few months.

Pearls Before Swine

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Quote from: Charles-Tim on February 15, 2023, 11:21:10 PM

It is made of stainless steel.

I am no physicist but I just slapped a magnet onto my dogecoin Ballet and it did not stick. Some stainless steel grades are magnetic and some aren't, I do know that but I thought it was aluminum. Ahem. I tried my best to bend the thing and could not without using excessive force so I guess you're right.

The Ballet line of wallets are attractive I think, as is the packaging. But when you're actually going to use a hardware wallet or just a slab of metal like the one sitting next to me it all comes down to the trust you have in the manufacturer since they're providing the private keys. As far as I know Ballet has never been linked to any scam report, but still. These are better as collectibles if that's your thing, and I would never feel comfortable storing a lot of funds on a Ballet.

They've been around for a few years AFAIK, yet there's never much discussion about them that I've seen. Does anyone collect them?

123Dave

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Quote from: mk4 on February 16, 2023, 12:24:09 AM

Ballet wallet is pretty much just a paper wallet in stainless steel form where you don't generate the wallet yourself, but a third party; hence that third party may or may not have a copy of your wallet's private keys. If anything, that's one of the worst wallets to use for long-term holding.

Only the worst b/c you haven’t generated your own keys? Some people don’t know how to generate private keys.

mk4

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Ballet wallet is pretty much just a paper wallet in stainless steel form where you don't generate the wallet yourself, but a third party; hence that third party may or may not have a copy of your wallet's private keys. If anything, that's one of the worst wallets to use for long-term holding.

Charles-Tim

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Quote from: 123Dave on February 15, 2023, 09:29:54 PM

I have bought almost every type of hardware wallet, I’ve been using ballet wallets. In conjunction with a ledger. I really like the ballet the best. Just looking for feedback

Ballet wallet is not a hardware wallet, it falls under the paper wallet category. It is made of stainless steel. The wallet private key is said to be printed in China, while its passphrase is said to be printed in Las Vegas. While holding bitcoin, you do not have to trust anyone, there are many available options you can go for rather than to trust a company or someone to generate for you what can be used to steal all your coins pertaining to the wallet. The best would be to just generate your keys (and passphrase) your self.

Maus0728

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I've only heard ballet wallet when this scam incident about coldkey happened a month ago: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/--5434506

AFAIK, ballet wallet resembles funded physical bitcoin collectibles with private keys being assigned by the manufacturer. So you are basically trusting the wallet's manufacturer that he doesn't have access to the private keys associated with the ballet wallet.

Here's a review from other members: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/as-i-said-im-stupid-and-impulsive-and-bought-a-ballet-wallet-5292310

123Dave

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I have bought almost every type of hardware wallet, I’ve been using ballet wallets. In conjunction with a ledger. I really like the ballet the best. Just looking for feedback

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