Topic: Band-aid solution for the bitcoin.org dilemma? (Read 408 times)

If you read the topic in full, you'd realise it's likely that we don't need to change anything.  This is purely contingency planning if something goes wrong:

IF DO

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on November 12, 2020, 02:25:41 AM

BUT if the logistics and the workload wasn't an issue, then Bitcointalk-band-aid solution?

I support the idea in principle, yes.

Yes, I know it was wrong of me to make that assumption, BUT if the logistics and the workload wasn't an issue, then Bitcointalk-band-aid solution?


I would volunteer, if I was technically qualified.

I think the main pitfall with your proposal is that you're assuming we'd get to nominate who the extra workload gets assigned to.  I get that people trust this site and it's administrators, but they already do a lot of work just keeping this place running.  I don't think it's right or proper that people should be pressuring them into potentially maintaining two websites just because you have concerns over what Cobra might or might not decide. 

If we're going to have a backup plan, we should be asking for volunteers, not just handing a job to someone who might not want it.

Or maybe a quick announcement from Roger Ver that he bought the domain, and a surprise revamp of the website that includes a "choose your Bitcoin, Core or Cash".

I trust Cobra would never doing anything like that, but if it went to that, I believe the "band-aid" solution might just become a good idea.

I'm pretty sure nothing has been announced.  There would have been so much noise and attention, probably some drama and controversial opinions being thrown about.  I'm guessing you wouldn't be able to miss it unless you were living in a cave, heh.

Thinking back about the topic, and I didn't see your post. Isn't it more decentralized to serve the data from more than one domain in bitcoin.org, to other domains?

What happened to Cobra's decision? Did the issue come to a closure?

Nope waste of resources and money in my opinion what he needs to do is to upgrade the server or have separate different server that is dedicated by country just like in Facebook to manage billions of users.
What you suggest is going back to zero and it will bring down Bitcointalk rankings in google which is a loss of money also.

First of all moving from bitcointalk to forum.bitcointalk.org won't be so easy. A lot of traffic on this website comes from google and what do you think about millions of links that are indexed in google? More probably website will lose it's ranking, authority and etc, doesn't worth for so much headaches. There is everything OK with domains, bitcoin isn't a patented thing to claim ownership on domains like bitcoin.com bitcoin.org and etc. Were you able to find bitcointalk? Others will be able too.

Also, want to ask another question. Imagine, everything is done what you said but right now theymos become a person who is willing to go against bitcoin and repeat Roger's scenario, what will be your answer?

To my mind, right now everything is as it should be. No need to worry.

OK..I thought you meant the www.bitcointalk.org web site as well...which the WayBack Machine could definitely not handle...sorry about that..pet peeve of not being able to get the sites above I wanted to back up....so mis-read.

There will be a lot of misunderstanding, much people in this forum are scammers and many come to it without knowing aboutcryptocurrencies and the result is easy to scam them.
Adding more complexity will not solve the problem, we have bitcointalk.org which have ranking and merit and trust.
bitcointalk domin name mean nothing the value of this forum is not by name but by followers, we can call it ewtewtwet.org or any other name.

Not really.

From previous drama.

https://github.com/bitcoin-dot-org/bitcoin.org/issues/3398



Actions speak louder than words, but in this case both align, and at no point has Cobra indicated or acted in a way to harm the wholesomeness of Bitcoin.org. No reason for him to start now.

Well, the bitcoin.org is just a static website(and definitely not a forum) anyway, so this problem is already out of the topic. In entirety, the bitcoin.org doesn't have that much pages anyway, as most(probably 90%+) of it's pages are just different language translated versions of the original English version.

Hypothetically speaking, if we want to promote the idea of Bitcoin and internet freedom, in case of a domain owner willing to turn a Bitcoin-related one into an anti-BTC campaign should be free to do so without being censored. Guess it's also why a lot of BSV shills are still on here promoting it.

How does it really help if theymos copies bitcoin.org to bitcointalk.org? In case bitcoin.org turns into a crappy anti-BTC propaganda, that'll open up a big door for whoever wants to start another website and promote the real coin and the legit information; the new website with legit info will also be added to whatever big website is currently promoting the "bitcoin.org" links.

Even if bitcoin.org changes and theymos copies the current website, absolute newcomers will still initially believe the "bitcoin.org" domain is the legit one. So the only thing really changing is that you now have 2 different domains, that's it. Newcomers will not know which is the legit one anyway - the only ones knowing about this change would be us.

in my experience, the wayback machine after a few years only goes down about 7 or 8 threads and hates forums.. I tried to look at knc miners forum in that manner

and the last thing they archived was just the title of messages...people assume it takes everything but not really. was pretty frustrating only thing you could get was

announcements and titles and the thing was still huge...bitcointalk would overwhelm the bot..just saying...when I looked into archiving some forums for knc and also for

worldgroup bbs ...they stopped web paging on the title did not archive posts.

hopefully, it has changed in the last 2 years

was my experience anyway

brad

You cannot expect, only hope. Remember, the @Bitcoin Twitter account was anti-Bitcoin, pro-Bitcoin Cash before, spreading propaganda "for Bitcoin", but not actually for Bitcoin.


Why? You want people instead to go to, https://www.bitcoin.com, and buy the "other version of Bitcoin", expecting to buy Bitcoin?

windfury might have had a valid shower thought...if

..if it didnt turn out to be just another fantasy involving a certain group of guys he loves that already have too much centralised responsibility.

maybe next time think decentralisation. not 'which guy do i love the most and think id want' when in the shower

such action, alongside topics like this, would only create "dilemma" where there were none. there is nothing wrong with bitcoin.org right now and there is no indication of anything wanting to go wrong in near future for anyone to want to make any kind of move.

Why would theymos need to copy anything from bitcoin.org website?
All content on that website is free and it is released under MIT license, but there is nothing special there that I didn't see on bitcointalk forum also.
Maybe we can have our own version website with subdomain like web.bitcointalk.org for example

I don't see any dilemma here, it's not like bitcoin.org was compromised and started hosting some anti-Bitcoin or other inappropriate content. If that will happen, then it will be a time to think before solutions, but before that, let's not be hasty and create more confusion with competing sites and so on. So far we have just some small, local drama that doesn't affect the community as a whole.

I guess the "talk" in bitcointalk.org makes it more appropriate for discussion forum like this.  Some people will immediately think it's a discussion site for Bitcoin once the "talk" is noticed. Anything wrong with bitcoin.org?

I don't think there is really any reason to mix the two websites.  I think bitcointalk.org has it's own use case as well as bitcoin.org.  There's a reason that Satoshi created both websites separately ( if I am not mistaken).

The topic seems to be : Is Cobra trustable? Are we keeping backups?

Yes, the content on bitcoin.org are on github and is open source, could be forked anytime if the owner goes rough.
IMO Cobra's love for bitcoin is no less than ours. He thinks and talks openly but he is much more stable and capable enough to make the right decision.
There's a talk in bitcointalk. If theymos is to come up with a new website for bitcoin it would be something else.

The name of the forum is Bitcoin forum, and the formula is Bitcointalk, so the forum focuses on discussions between members and not a site to display information or reference for Bitcoin.
It is better to leave things as they are, as the forum is for discussion and talk about bitcoin in bitcoin.org.
admin does not has access to the forum, and he will not change.
Why do not you say the extension to wiki.bitcointalk.org.

Much as I like the idea of preserving that site as is, I don't think anyone that needs it will miss it if it goes. Not like newbies go there to find things out. People who think one "official" source is the right source probably already go to bitcoin.com or follow the true Satoshi and the original vision of Bitcoin (I'm not sure what it is, I'm just Bitcoin).

Should i mention that https://bitcoin.org/ source code is available on their GitHub repository at https://github.com/bitcoin-dot-org/bitcoin.org ?

Besides i don't see how it it solve the dilemma, since https://bitcoin.org/ domain is quite valuable.

A shower thought should be explained clearer. 

They are different sites: bitcoin.org and bitcointalk.org and 3 months ago theymos wrote the announcement for the community: Domain name update. Since that day, the two sites have been totally operated separately. They have operated separately for years but theymos' announcement make the fact more clearly for people who misunderstood about it for years.

What dilemma?

Cobra said he has someone lined up to take it over who is a longstanding figure in Bitcoin. Dunno who they are but he got this far without throwing it away. I expect he'll choose the right person to continue it.

I still think it should be trashed or turned into a gurning dimwit of a site.

Unfortunately I do not think it is a good idea to do something like that 😅 , here are the reasons why I stand with my point:

•It would need permissions of both the parties and even if one declines nothing like this could ever happen.

•There would be problems regarding the system that we have right now here , you cannot just copy exactly everything , it would take a lot of time which would mean that for a while the whole forum will be inactive.

•It will need a techno expert , a lot of time plus permissions of not only both the parties but permission of the members registered here too to use their personal data .

•I do believe that forum is pretty simple and all this might result in some privacy problems.

•You should know that even if the domain was sold to any kind of person who personally might and might be goal oriented in terms of cryptocurrencies and such , he or she won't ever create problems for the forum , it will still work fine .

• Do you ever think that Cobra would ever hand it over to someone who would destroy the whole thing ??
  

I might agree with the idea of a backup but then again it is technically unnecessary right now and would need a lot of time and effort for the same.

Right now I agree with you that it's working just fine.


The content is what makes the domain significant!! There are people here working for the benefits of others , there are companies and firms here coming forth to provide solutions and alternatives.

It's NOT THE DOMAIN , it's the people who matters .

Copying content can only happen with the permission of the authors of the mentioned content.
I don't know who owns all the text content,that's posted on a forum.The forum owner/admin or the members,who are creating the content?I've never though about this question so far.
I think that forums fall under the Web 2.0 category,alongside article directories and websites like Medium and Hubpages,where all the articles created by the authors become property of the platform(If I remember this correctly).
Anyway,Bitcoin.org will be just fine and I don't think that Cobra is going to abandon that forum anytime soon.

Serving the content might not be the only point though. The domain serving it must have some significance in the community IN CASE bitcoin.org was compromised to promote a forked shitcoin. A domain we can say, "YES that's Bitcoin".

Maybe I'm shower-thinking too much?

And if anyone is that concerned, rather than relying on this site, surely they can make a copy of their own and upload it somewhere for safe keeping.  More decentralised and such.

Would consider it stupid if ownership/control of the domain goes to someone like Roger Ver?


It would solve something in case the bitcoin.org domain goes to someone who might use it as a socio-political attack against Bitcoin. bitcointalk.org is significant too.

Cobra wants to give up ownership/control in case you haven't heard the news.

Err, but what would this solve though? Doesn't look like a band-aid solution for anything. The Bitcoin.org domain is mostly what's significant, not necessarily the content.


Probably not necessary. Thankfully, we have the Wayback Machine: https://web.archive.org/web/20200630141011/https://bitcoin.org/en/

I guess it could be a good thing to keep a backup and do this in case something goes wrong with the current bitcoin.org website? Like, is there any need right now to copy the stuff to the bitcointalk.org domain?

Anyways, I think there shouldn't need to be any issue even if the bitcoin.org ownership somehow goes wrong, as long as the website still continues to show and promote the correct information about Bitcoin (unlike bitcoin.com). Is there anything I'm missing?

Never heard stupider idea.
Why would he even do that.
Bitcoin.org remain with the bitcoin community. And even if we went through transfer of ownership (from cobra), it would remain within bitcoin community.

Shower thought, would it be a good move for theymos to copy all content from bitcoin.org and serve it through bitcointalk.org, and move the forum to forum.bitcointalk.org?