I guess the devil is in the details of the system. If I buy something I want simplicity and so do the sellers to be honest. It has been demonstrated that any additional step into any purchase process implies a loss of hardly won customers.
For example, if instead of entering a card number, I have to log into a web (which can fail), put an user and password (that I may forget or re-use from other sites or get stolen) and then hope for the validation process to be correctly integrated there will be sales lost.
Topic: Bank cards: where have all the numbers gone? (Read 145 times)
From the point of view of reality, at least in my country - I have not worn a wallet for 3-4 years. Honestly. There is some cash in the money clip, but I don't carry cash anymore. And I don't carry credit cards. Everything is on the phone. Discomfort? None! Today I bought cherries and strawberries, in a small vegetable kiosk - there is a mobile terminal at the saleswoman. Those who do not want to rent a terminal, no question - here is the QR code - pay using the camera! Everything takes seconds. And even more so when you have more than 1 card! For example, I have 5 cards - 3 Ukrainian banks, 2 foreign banks, and they are all in the phone, and 4 of them in Google Pay. Simple, convenient, comfortable, safe! The question is - for what purposes in the given example, are they now changing the format of PHYSICAL cards? I assume that they will solve some of the problems in countries with a not very developed payment system and where there is still a very active use of exclusively cash means of payment, but this will not solve the security problems of the cards as such!
Have to agree with everyone else here - not a useful feature but it makes UX more annoying.
Besides, large swathes of card numbers are obtained online, via hacks on online services, and then resold to "stolen card shops" on Tor onion addresses.
And what does this have to do with cryptocurrencies anyway? At least we can't hide addresses somewhere digitally behind some nice paper picture (not even collectibles attempt to hide the address).
Besides, large swathes of card numbers are obtained online, via hacks on online services, and then resold to "stolen card shops" on Tor onion addresses.
And what does this have to do with cryptocurrencies anyway? At least we can't hide addresses somewhere digitally behind some nice paper picture (not even collectibles attempt to hide the address).
Now it seems they're making it more difficult to use debit/credit cards to where there is no greater convenience and ease of use factor attached to them.
Its called as 'innovation' and by adding all those sort of 'digital' stuff onto cards, they are making that it seems like the banks are going through their way in trying to get all those benefits that cryptocurrencies has over fiat. Well atleast the some people would always think that such thing is a breakthrough innovation though but we all know that it doesnt
Cards used to be easy to use? I remember clearly when we had machines that were huge, you would give your card, they would swipe something huge above it, they would give you a paper, you signed it, and then it took to the bank to see if you had that kind of money, then it cameback positive, and you signed another and leave. That was the first ever credit card process in my nation, of course it became easier after that but "used to" is an open ended thing.
I believe it's easy right now, I just show the card to a machine and leave, contactless, no pin no nothing and it allows me to spend it in a second. So, right now is definitely looking like the best time.
I believe it's easy right now, I just show the card to a machine and leave, contactless, no pin no nothing and it allows me to spend it in a second. So, right now is definitely looking like the best time.
Getting PoS machine is not a big deal these days. Imagine processing transaction on PoS terminals and walking nearby the contactless card holder could do the job. Imagine where we go very close to people? Clubs and pubs where everyone is drunk like hell. Lolz. Could be terrifying experience really.
Sorry but that is bs!
https://www.thalesgroup.com/en/markets/digital-identity-and-security/banking-payment/cards/contactless/how-it-works
People running out of customers for tinfoil hats now trying to sell snake
The whole thing about a guy in a disco touching people with his PoS is just laughable, you realize this guy needs to have a bank account, registered as a merchant, and he has to wait 60 days before getting the money, once tens of complaints start to pop up his account will be frozen weeks before he could get a penny.
Plus, everyone now can install their banking app, I usually get an alert about a payment being made before the receipt is printed! Some banks even offer SMS alerts for payments for just 1E a month.
That aside, I tried numerous times just for fun to pay by just touching the PoS with my wallet in which I hold my cards, but it never worked once!!!!
Ok, it seems they are all set to compromise our security with completely new technology. However, I see that we are already half way compromised after they implemented the contactless features on the cards. I think this is similar to what hydrogen is explaining. Getting PoS machine is not a big deal these days. Imagine processing transaction on PoS terminals and walking nearby the contactless card holder could do the job. Imagine where we go very close to people? Clubs and pubs where everyone is drunk like hell. Lolz. Could be terrifying experience really.
Mobile phones with their apps pulled the door out of physical BANK cards so why do I need to pay with a card when I can do it with my phone most of the time?
These phones have enhanced technologies, are better, faster and more secure than traditional cards where you can pay using the QR or NFC code.
These phones have enhanced technologies, are better, faster and more secure than traditional cards where you can pay using the QR or NFC code.
Because you might arrive a bit late from work to the shop and with no battery on your phone?
What's the chance of breaking our phone when it falls out of your pocket and what's the chance of breaking the card the same way? Update gone wrong? App errors?I see no advantage with the phone other than not having to carry your wallet around, but since I always have to have my driver's license with me and my ID card, I also carry the wallet, so what is the difference between a 3 seconds payment with a phone and 3 seconds payment with a card?
As for the tech, is no "enhanced" technology, it's the same encrypted exchange of information that happens in both a payment via an NFC phone and a contactless card, and we have had that for a decade already.
For many years I black out the CVV of my cards as soon as I receive them. Unfortunately I cannot really do more.
I carry a piece of paper with fake 4 digits pins next to my CCs, sounds silly butt I thought why not, maybe the thief will be stupid enough to try it 3 times and get caught on nearby surveillance cameras.
Oh, and you'll be amazed how many stupid people that find lost cards are trying to either withdraw money or pay for stuff with it in local stores around here, just to get caught the next day.
Mobile phones with their apps pulled the door out of physical BANK cards so why do I need to pay with a card when I can do it with my phone most of the time?
The behavior of banks in the coming months will be crucial in determining whether we will go through a global financial crisis, which may affect the banking sector or not.
- These phones have enhanced technologies, are better, faster and more secure than traditional cards where you can pay using the QR or NFC code.
- Traditional Cards Just Losing their fist place according to this Survey Thirty-one million Americans tapped a Visa contactless card or digital wallet in March 2020. you can read it from here https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/money/contactless-payment/
The behavior of banks in the coming months will be crucial in determining whether we will go through a global financial crisis, which may affect the banking sector or not.
Some banks are updating their format to where numbers are no longer listed on cards. They're listed on a web service that users must log into.
Imho it's not such a bad move, and can even be enhanced a little.
The numbers on the cards make them great to be stolen. There are cameras everywhere. It's not so difficult to record the numbers from your card and then use it for paying online. It has happened even to people I know.
For many years I black out the CVV of my cards as soon as I receive them. Unfortunately I cannot really do more.
Cards being "blank"? I find a good move. The card itself can be used for shopping and ATM as usual, and if you want the numbers for internet use, then get them from the bank separately and keep them separately.
And as I said, it can be enhanced a little. My bank already offers virtual cards for free. The numberless cards can remain for in-shop use and companion virtual cards can be made for online use.
RFID is indeed a security hole, but actually I didn't hear yet of people robbed like that. Of course, if the numbers from the cards are going away, this could be the next attack vector.
Quote
As more banks go numberless to help stop fraud, we look at what it means for security and ease of use
First there was the contactless revolution; now credit and debit cards are going numberless.
Increasingly, banks are relegating information such as the 16-digit long number and the expiry date to the back of the card, while a few are going the whole hog and not printing them anywhere.
For decades, bank cards broadly looked the same: fairly utilitarian, with the account holder’s name, the long number and the “valid from” and “expires end” dates all usually on the front (plus, in the case of debit cards, the account number and sort code), and the three-digit card security code typically on the back.
However, it is now increasingly common to see a fairly simple and uncluttered front, or maybe an eye-catching image (such as a bright yellow beach hut), with the numbers and other personal information printed on the back.
In early 2020, a payment service called Curve announced it had launched “the first numberless cards in Europe”. These cards, made available to the company’s investors, had all the numbers removed.
Since then, in the UK, the digital bank Chase has made a feature of the fully numberless debit card that you get with its current account. It says this adds an extra layer of security for customers. But while the move has been welcomed by some customers, others have questioned how easy it is to pay for items online or by phone.
Among the high street banks, there is certainly a trend. Barclaycard redesigned its credit cards earlier this year to remove numbers from the front, while NatWest started to roll out new-look debit cards – where “all the usual card info is now on the back” – in April.
Halifax, HSBC and First Direct are just a few of the others that have done the same.
Some will wonder whether moving the numbers to the back and the other design changes are all about aesthetics, as banks attempt to woo the “Instagram generation” by freshening up their products.
But there are other factors at play, some of which reflect the rapid rise of digital wallet services such as Apple Pay. First Direct says its redesign means your card will be easier to find if you are scrolling through a digital wallet.
Meanwhile, HSBC says it wanted the front card design “to be simple, clean and effective to benefit our customers with disabilities. By moving all the text to the back of the card, we were able to go bigger and bolder with the text without interrupting the front design of the card.” It adds that moving the numbers to the back “does come with a level of improved security” as it means your card details are less visible to people nearby.
Chase, which launched in the UK last September, says a customer’s card details are stored behind a secure login on its app, so people are not putting their personal details at risk if they lose their physical card. It adds that should a customer ever need to replace their card details, they can instantly generate new ones in the app.
However, one customer tweeted that their numberless card was “annoying”, adding: “Each time I pay, I have to open the account and find the number instead of simply looking at a card and typing the number. Pretty pointless bit of security.”
The bank says your card details can be quickly accessed within the app by tapping the blue card at the top of the home screen, then tapping “see details”.
If you are returning or collecting something and are asked for a card number, it says you need to find the transaction in the app and scroll to “card ending with”. Most places should only need to see the last four digits, it adds.
A spokesperson says: “We hear consistently from customers that they view having a numberless card as an advantage in protecting against fraud and theft.”
One customer tweeted that moving to Chase was “the best thing I’ve ever done”, and that numberless cards meant that if there were any problems, “they just change the card number remotely, and no need to send one out unless you lose it. If you do lose it, there are no details on it for a scammer to use.”
Armen Najarian at Outseer, which specialises in anti-fraud solutions, says that even for providers such as Chase which have no numbers on their cards, “a card number does exist digitally, so vulnerabilities still exist”. He adds: “In the overwhelming majority of fraud cases, the fraudster never sees the card as these attacks tend to happen online ... So, if a card number exists – physically or digitally – it’s up for grabs.”
Santander has launched numberless cards in locations such as Mexico but says it does not currently have any plans to introduce them in the UK.
Guardian Money spoke to one UK bank that said it had considered going down the numberless route but decided against it. “Removing all card details forces customers to obtain these digitally,” the bank said, adding that many people are not digitally active.
However, David Griffiths at the payment technology firm Contis says: “Not printing the card numbers on the back of the card is presently a bit of a novelty. But if people come to believe it makes their details more secure, demand for such cards will grow. Primarily, I think numberless cards look neat, and we are going to see more of them because they look neat.”
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/jun/11/bank-cards-numbers-numberless-fraud
First there was the contactless revolution; now credit and debit cards are going numberless.
Increasingly, banks are relegating information such as the 16-digit long number and the expiry date to the back of the card, while a few are going the whole hog and not printing them anywhere.
For decades, bank cards broadly looked the same: fairly utilitarian, with the account holder’s name, the long number and the “valid from” and “expires end” dates all usually on the front (plus, in the case of debit cards, the account number and sort code), and the three-digit card security code typically on the back.
However, it is now increasingly common to see a fairly simple and uncluttered front, or maybe an eye-catching image (such as a bright yellow beach hut), with the numbers and other personal information printed on the back.
In early 2020, a payment service called Curve announced it had launched “the first numberless cards in Europe”. These cards, made available to the company’s investors, had all the numbers removed.
Since then, in the UK, the digital bank Chase has made a feature of the fully numberless debit card that you get with its current account. It says this adds an extra layer of security for customers. But while the move has been welcomed by some customers, others have questioned how easy it is to pay for items online or by phone.
Among the high street banks, there is certainly a trend. Barclaycard redesigned its credit cards earlier this year to remove numbers from the front, while NatWest started to roll out new-look debit cards – where “all the usual card info is now on the back” – in April.
Halifax, HSBC and First Direct are just a few of the others that have done the same.
Some will wonder whether moving the numbers to the back and the other design changes are all about aesthetics, as banks attempt to woo the “Instagram generation” by freshening up their products.
But there are other factors at play, some of which reflect the rapid rise of digital wallet services such as Apple Pay. First Direct says its redesign means your card will be easier to find if you are scrolling through a digital wallet.
Meanwhile, HSBC says it wanted the front card design “to be simple, clean and effective to benefit our customers with disabilities. By moving all the text to the back of the card, we were able to go bigger and bolder with the text without interrupting the front design of the card.” It adds that moving the numbers to the back “does come with a level of improved security” as it means your card details are less visible to people nearby.
Chase, which launched in the UK last September, says a customer’s card details are stored behind a secure login on its app, so people are not putting their personal details at risk if they lose their physical card. It adds that should a customer ever need to replace their card details, they can instantly generate new ones in the app.
However, one customer tweeted that their numberless card was “annoying”, adding: “Each time I pay, I have to open the account and find the number instead of simply looking at a card and typing the number. Pretty pointless bit of security.”
The bank says your card details can be quickly accessed within the app by tapping the blue card at the top of the home screen, then tapping “see details”.
If you are returning or collecting something and are asked for a card number, it says you need to find the transaction in the app and scroll to “card ending with”. Most places should only need to see the last four digits, it adds.
A spokesperson says: “We hear consistently from customers that they view having a numberless card as an advantage in protecting against fraud and theft.”
One customer tweeted that moving to Chase was “the best thing I’ve ever done”, and that numberless cards meant that if there were any problems, “they just change the card number remotely, and no need to send one out unless you lose it. If you do lose it, there are no details on it for a scammer to use.”
Armen Najarian at Outseer, which specialises in anti-fraud solutions, says that even for providers such as Chase which have no numbers on their cards, “a card number does exist digitally, so vulnerabilities still exist”. He adds: “In the overwhelming majority of fraud cases, the fraudster never sees the card as these attacks tend to happen online ... So, if a card number exists – physically or digitally – it’s up for grabs.”
Santander has launched numberless cards in locations such as Mexico but says it does not currently have any plans to introduce them in the UK.
Guardian Money spoke to one UK bank that said it had considered going down the numberless route but decided against it. “Removing all card details forces customers to obtain these digitally,” the bank said, adding that many people are not digitally active.
However, David Griffiths at the payment technology firm Contis says: “Not printing the card numbers on the back of the card is presently a bit of a novelty. But if people come to believe it makes their details more secure, demand for such cards will grow. Primarily, I think numberless cards look neat, and we are going to see more of them because they look neat.”
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/jun/11/bank-cards-numbers-numberless-fraud
....
Cards used to be easy and convenient to use.
Some banks are updating their format to where numbers are no longer listed on cards. They're listed on a web service that users must log into.
I'm not certain if this eliminates an advantage of convenience that credit and debit cards once had over crypto. Card merchants have said bitcoin was too clunky and inconvenient to use. Now it seems they're making it more difficult to use debit/credit cards to where there is no greater convenience and ease of use factor attached to them.
The greatest security issue with cards was some having an RFID chip embedded which could have its critical financial data swiped by anyone in close physical proximity. I don't remember stolen cards being a critical issue. But it seems there is some attempt at a shift being made.
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