Topic: Banking issues (Read 451 times)

This is a problem of open banking. But as you can see, Revolut doesn't identificate itsself as a bank. It's fin.tech startup, not a bank.
And it's not a solution for Welsh.

No.

Someone like Revolut will find something suspicious that an average bank will not. I've never met anyone who has had their bank account suspended. I have come across quite a few people who had their app based accounts tripped and shut down by some unknown algorithm.

I can say only average things, of course, we should look at this case by case.
1. We don't know the bank name and the country where the situation was going on.
2. As a rule, the old banks are not interested in new niches investing. It happens only in the times of market share changing.
3. Every bank has its own policy. If they don't have many clients with similar transactions or, even more, they faced with a scam, of course, their complience will be tough.
Contrariwise, the crypto-friendly bank which used to make such type of transactions will not control every your sneeze.



I agry with you that it's a high risk, but technically these are fin.tech companies, not banks. They can named themselves as they want.  But the bank can't have third-party acquiers.
At the same time, I can name the successful and trustful businesses of this sort.

So, you mean if established bank find something suspicious (in its opinion) in your transactions, this bank will let it be? I have some doubts.

That doesn't ring true to me.

Many of the startup banks are nothing more than clients of the real banks. That makes them doubly desperate to stay in their good books. An established bank may give you the benefit of the doubt whereas an app based one will shut you down instantly for the slightest infraction.

Their lack of competence in general reflects the speed of their growth.

I don't trust any of them and I wouldn't run my life through an account like that.

The solution in this situation is very simple.
The older the bank the more issues you will have. Old players in financial industry are very firm in this matter,
Try to choose the young startup banks for crypto operations. They are more flexible.

Absolutely, I agree that this is sometimes a good way of preventing people from sending funds. However, I spent a while on the phone to the operator, and they were happy with my answers, and saying that I understand the risk, as well as knowing this company well. They even send they would try, and push the payment through, but it "might fail". Of course, they came back around 60 seconds later, and said that it failed, and I would have to go into the local branch. My concern at the time was either we were going into lockdown or I suspected we were shortly. I understand fraud protection, but I also would like to think going through a long process of verifying who I say I am, as well as accepting the risks of sending to a company that brought up red flags to them, that I would still be able to send it, and accept it if there was any issues with the money.

I have changed banks, not exclusively because of this issue, but for some other concerns too. I managed to get the account switched, and purchase the amount of Bitcoin I wanted without any issues. In fact, the bank transfer cleared within 15 minutes, and the Bitcoins were in my address within the hour.

I think my mentality is shifting, and don't want to be able to deal with most of my funds online as travelling to a local branch is just sometimes not possible especially with time sensitive purchases.  I understand that the protocols that the banks go through such as fraud, stolen funds etc, but that should be able to be done without going to a local branch in a pandemic.

Your problems weren't probably related to AMLD5 as previously suggested, but (in the eyes of the bank) to prevent a potential victim from sending large amounts of money to a scammer. They'd rather delay the transfer than risk helping send money to a scammer, there must have been too many cases similar to yours where the person making the transfer wasn't as informed as you were.

I've changed banks as of yesterday. The banking system I am now with doesn't require my physical attendance with large transactions, however will still need to verify big transactions to prevent fraud, or unauthorized payments going out of my account, which I'm fine with. It wasn't the fact that they checked whether the payment was authorized it was the fact that they seemed against Bitcoin, but also the fact that they required my physical presence in a pandemic where we've been told that non essential travel should be avoided. I have friends within the banking system which are working from home, and only the "essential" within the bank are there physically so I definitely didn't take well to requiring a citizen, and customer to travel when everything had already been verified.

Anyway, I've confirmed that the new bank is at least publicly accepting to Bitcoin, however I'll see if there's any issues next time I'm looking to purchase some. Currently, the accounts are being switched over.

Since you're in the UK you could look into drip feeding via one of the 'challenger banks' like Monzo or Starling or whatever. I would double check with them whether they're alright with it first.

All your original bank will see is money going to another financial institution.

Worth having a browse through here as well - https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinUK/

It's pretty much the only place with some pooled experience of UK banks and crypto. I get the impression Nationwide is the most accepting but they have intermediary banks in Europe that won't play with places like Bitstamp for instance.

There might be various reasons why your bank is not processing the transaction.

1. Bank might be against cryptocurrency transactions
2. Bank might be genuinely concerned of large transactions as yours
3. Bank might be suffering losses due to Corona and want to hold money from larger transactions

I'm not suggesting Bitcoin can replace fiat currency. What I am suggesting is banking as they exist today is not needed, and alternatives should be sought after. I don't think Bitcoin will dislodge fiat currencies from its perch nor do I think its suited for that purpose. What I do see Bitcoin as it a way for you to control your money without involving any third parties.

Yes, I understand that. They are declining using them as a service to process the order, and theoretically you can use that money for anything else other than cryptocurrency. You sign up to their terms of services, and they have the right to reject any transfer of money that they wish too. However, the point still stands that by doing so, they are a third party which is preventing you to do what you want to do with your money. I'm not suggesting the bank is a bad bank for disallowing the purchase, rather I'm venting my annoyance that this occurred, and I accept the fact that they can do this. I'm not suggesting they're going against their policies, and are scared of Bitcoin, because lets face it they are not.

What I am suggesting is I'll be using banking systems to what is necessary, and not for storing money. I like to be in control of my money, and that includes sending money when I want without hitting road blocks. I have changed banks, just out of principle that I didn't like that they blocked cryptocurrencies not because I think they've done anything wrong, but rather out of spite, because there's no reason why they would need my physical attendance. For example, there are now modern day banks which have no physical locations, and are exclusively digital. That doesn't mean that I'll be putting all my money into Bitcoin either, its likely I'll be keeping a cash reserve in which I can use whenever I need to without going through a bank.

I will be looking for a bank which is cryptocurrency friendly within the UK, but only because its convenient, and not because its my preferred thing to do. For example, paying in cash has a lot of drawbacks as well. My direct criticism on the bank is the fact that we went through everything, and confirmed it. He even said he'll try, and push it through. However, they require my physical presence for what ever reason, despite there being no local branch to me, due to it shutting down a few years ago, and not exactly living next to major cities. Also, the fact that there's a current pandemic going on, and its been declared to avoid non essential travel. These are the reasons why I'm annoyed, and feel out of principle will either have to find another bank due to the obvious convenience that they offer in modern day life, or look at an alternative.  Bitcoin is one of the alternatives, but I'm not stating that its a complete replacement, and can replace fiat currencies. I'm still going to be using fiat currencies, that is clear as my company will not pay in Bitcoin.


I'm using one of the most popular banks in UK, and I know one of the other big banks in the UK doesn't like cryptocurrency through contacts that work for them, and specifically works in the fraud department. This was a somewhat large amount, and I know that's probably why it did get flagged up when combined with the reason "cryptocurrency purchase", because I've paid more than double the amount before without even a phone call. My inner conspiracy nut is telling me this is because they have popular exchanges blacklisted, but that might not be the case, and its just the fact that is was a large amount, and it was deemed for cryptocurrencies. I could have been vague, but I believe being honest is the right approach, and I like to be somewhat up front when asked what I'm buying to the bank.

This is something that I'm going to have to look into. Although, honestly I hate involving third parties when in my mind it is unnecessary, and that might just be a personality flaw on my behalf.

Yeah, I didn't try convincing the customer support on the end of the phone. I just accepted it, and thanked him for his time. I will definitely be looking into different banking. This is an observation that I've made, and might not be totally accurate, but it seems the older the bank the more likely they're to be against cryptocurrency transactions or at least not as welcoming.

I had a similar issue ^{[a few months ago]} and they required me to go to one of their branches and I did. They interviewed me for a very long time, then ended up with nothing so I went to another branch ^{[main branch]} based on their suggestion and it took less than an hour for the person in charge to process it for me ^{[you might want to try this one as well, obviously not now]}... I believe each branch operates slightly differently depending on their experiences when it comes to dealing with crypto-related stuff.

---

In addition to other comments/suggestions:

• Why don't you try using other third-party services that allow crypto to fiat buy & sells ^{[e.g. Webmoney]}?
  ^{- I've been using WebMoney for a very long time and so far, haven't encountered any banking issues.}

I don't understand the last line. You yourself saying that you get salary into bank, there are millions of transactions happening in fiat currencies involving bank everyday. It's clear that Bitcoin can never replace that system because of its limitations. We don't have any other alternative to replace current monetary system. Cryptocurrencies are the closest substitute to money and they are failing when required to be used at large scale. So believe it or not but state owned currency system where you are only offered promise of pay (legal tender) and not full control of currency is the only solution to be used at mass scale for now.  

And another important point. Bank isn't declining you to use your money, it is only declining you to use its service. There's a difference. When you sending money from your bank account to other's account, you are actually using bank's service of remittance. This is interesting point Supreme Court of India mentioned in recent case related to cryptocurrenices:

"It is ironical that virtual currencies which took avatar (according to its creator Satoshi) to kill the demon of a central authority (such as RBI), seek from the very same central authority, access to banking services so that the purpose of the avatar is accomplished."

*RBI is central banking authority in India.

Oh yes, very annoying and something that I think is stupid when you literally have the customer on the other end of the phone telling you no the payment wont go through. You're probably sitting their like -- damn this is literally MY MONEY.

But I do understand the concerns of the bank, as they've probably had to deal with many unauthorized transactions to crypto purchasing websites from people who lost their debit card, credit cards, bank account login, etc.

I'd just attempt to find a crypto friendly back (from other peoples expierences) in the UK. You're not going to be the one person to convince your entire bank to stop doing something relating to crypto, though there are other banks that dont have issues with this.

I'm definitely going to look into changing banks, because as I mentioned I'm going to need a bank to receive payments from my job. I'll be withdrawing into Bitcoin far more regularly, and will have to find a bank which doesn't prevent me from doing so. I could just stay with the current bank, and use the alternatives you've mentioned, but out of principle I'm not going to do that.

Its annoying, and I'm almost convinced its because it was for cryptocurrency. As I've said previously I've made higher payments to relatively unknown companies unless you're familiar with expeditions. Companies like Jagged Globe, adventure consultants, and mountain madness aren't going to be known to many, but that went through without any issues. I believe the bank likely has a flag for certain exchanges. I used a somewhat popular exchange, and maybe that was my issue. I understand the fraud prevention, and contacting you. However, if you've done everything in your power to confirm your identity, you should be able to send it without physically going to the bank, especially since non essential travel has been issued in my country. Now the Bitcoin price is raising, and I've missed the gap that I identified I'm quite annoyed.

Pretty sure a large amount of banks and credit card companies are going to avoid crypto not because they feel that crypto is this crazy new force that is going to take over their business, but because they know that a large amount of scammers are going to steal peoples credit / debit card numbers / bank accounts and use that to buy crypto with.

This is the real reason why banks avoid this.

Whenever a bank does ask this question though, I'd say 'money transfer' or something along those lines next time. Not lying if you say that. Only answer the questions they ask. Sucks with all the trouble though.

Well, that sucks. But on the other hand, if you're in the UK then there are several bitcoin/crypto-friendly debit card providers that can be a good solution to think about. You should stop using your current bank for any cryptocurrency-related transactions if possible, and switch to another bank provider or use bitcoin debit card as I said above. Pretty sure you can find a lot of alternatives. Especially after Coinbase launchs their card.

This is mainly be just venting my frustration, but I didn't realise that this is somewhat of a common problem. As people usually say you don't wake up until it happens to you, and for the last few years I've had no issues buying Bitcoin. Of course, the conspiracy theories come racing into your head, is the bank going against Bitcoin or is it related to the pandemic that's going on. At the end of the day, whatever the reason even if it was fraud prevention, and nothing else. It prevented me from purchasing something that I wanted within a specific time frame. The Bitcoin price was at a nice value, and its currently a few hundred pounds higher than when I tried to purchase. I do understand that fraud happens, but you should be able to waiver this, and say you are prepared for the risk just like I am with Bitcoin. Bitcoin, doesn't have a fraud protection system, and you control everything, and that is the way it should be.


That's the point. They actually blocked me from purchasing over the internet, and required me to actually physically go to the bank. They are a big bank in the UK, and are actually one of  the mains ones. They support; internet, mobile, and my limit is well over the amount that I tried to purchase. I also tried using a debit card, as I'm against credit cards. That was also blocked, and had to be confirmed in person. Its annoying, because any other purchase that I've made in the last few years that have been over this amount have gone through fine. Lets also confirm that I do have enough money in the bank, and that's not the issue. In fact, I've even just purchased something else of value (not quite the same amount leaving), and guess what? The transaction went through fine, without even a phone call.


Good point. I understand that fraud prevention actually helps probably thousands each year, but I should have the option of them interfering or not, but I don't. Requiring my physical presence while they advertise you can spend xx,xxx amount per day over the internet is quite simply annoying. Especially, when time is the essence when it comes to buying Bitcoin or something as volatile as it. I didn't ask for these AML procedures or fraud prevention. It has never saved me before, and has only ever hindered my purchases.

I wasn't aware of the dirty funds fine issue, but I don't think that would apply to money leaving their bank. Every question was answered, and everything was confirmed within about 2 minutes. I had all the information required ready has I have gone through this process before, however that actually got sent off, and was actually for a larger amount. However, they did ask what it was for, and I stated cryptocurrencies. This might be in my head, but I could have sworn that the person on the end of the phone changed their tune, and then started to state that this might not get "pushed" through, but they'll try everything in their power too. However, when I previously sent a larger amount for a expedition in Nepal.....that went through without any issues at all, in fact when I stated what it was for the man on the other end wanted to have a chat about it, and seemed excited. It was just a total different encounter this time.

The banks have to keep track of who is selling and buying these assets. Things are better though in UK and US than many other countries while some have actually banned to use of cryptocurrency and its trading in any form. The main risk is that of possible criminal activities like money laundering that does happen through the abuse of the pseudo-anonymity provided by bitcoin.

However banks also want customers and as long as we are doing these things in the legal manner there should not be any raised red flags. It can be a hassle but trust me, you would not fall into trouble as long as you comply with what they have to say.

Local users can give you a more detailed "crypto-friendly banks" in your country if you need to change banks.

Don't they support mobile banking? As far as I remember, most banks support internet, mobile, or even SMS banking nowadays so the solution is not that difficult to find. But it looks like they have some restrictions on how much money you can transfer per day/month, so I'd suggest you to transfer in batches.

Another solution is to have a debit/card like Advcash which has a somewhat decent limit ($50k per month IIRC) so you don't really need to depends on your local bank. As long as the ATM around your area supports Mastercard/Visa card, you can withdraw your money.

I didn't have this issue when trying to purchase cryptocurrency but rather when I sold a large amount of crypto. Banks are not informed it seems. I had to go through 2 months of hassle with my bank verifying something new each week and proving where the money came from.

In the long run, they're trying to protect themselves. They can get fined by the government for accepting "dirty" money as they called it. Upwards of 500k in fines if they're found to be receiving bad money. Fortunately I was able to prove everything and the money was finally accepted.

Not sure if they can get the same fines for allowing a payment to go through, but they are likely trying to keep you from being able to claim it was a fake payment and having to pay outta pocket for letting the payment go through.

Honestly all banks should be made to take classes and inform themselves on cryptocurrencies and popular exchanges so that they can have a better understanding of how things work and what is legit and not legit. If you verified everything via telephone, that shoulda been the end of it.

It might be really annoying to be required to go to the bank physically to confirm the transaction, but sure I'd somewhat understand it if it was a huge amount of money. Them requiring you to physically show up right now knowing that we have a global pandemic spreading though, that's a huge nope for me dawg.

This might be a really really stupid suggestion(so I apologize in advance), but could you possibly ask them if you could "personally" confirm the transaction through you having a video call with them? Because you definitely have an excuse for not showing up(due to COVID-19). I mean, I personally wouldn't take the risk of going out right now. You have nothing to lose for asking them I guess?

It was a 'popular' problem in my country, it still happens from time to time but very less frequently. Despite the fact, the companies are well known in the industry, have the highest volumes, and any other argument, banks blocked outside transfers 'to protect their customers' they say.

The only solution was to sign a paper explaining we understand 'the risks' to send money to such companies and bla bla bla. Perhaps you can do the same adding you love to get scammed, it's your own money, and if it has nothing to do with their AML procedures they have to obey your desires lol.

Banks have become increasingly suspicious of all transactions, especially since the new AMLD5 came into effect, and in one part it focused specifically on cryptocurrency. Obviously your bank has a firm stance that such payments can only be made physically, not remotely, which on the one hand protects you as a client in case of identity/theft hacking, but on the other hand limits you to the situation when you want to make an online payment. Did you maybe offer them a Skype verification or something like that?

What I would try is maybe reduce the amount of money you want to send, because it is possible that the problem is just too big amount of money. Besides, the only other options are to go to a bank in person or to find another bank that will be more crypto friendly.

I've recently tried purchasing Bitcoin, and because it was a large amount the bank required me to call their fraud department, and confirm it was me. This is considered normal practice, and I didn't think I would run into any issues. However, when stating the reason for sending a large amount to buy "cryptocurrencies" it seemed to trigger an alarm, and despite me verifying that it was indeed myself, they went into depth about being sure that the company I was sending it to was legitimate. I verified that I had done my homework, and this particular company has transacted millions worth, however they were not convinced. In fact, they went as far to say that this sounds like a scam thats been going around recently ,and even though I said I accepted that risk, I still wanted the payment to go through. He said he would try to push it through, but came back a minute later, and said it was unsuccessful, and I would be required to go to the bank, and send it from there.

The thing is I actually live quite a bit away from my "local" branch, and with the pandemic going on, and a few cases they still advised me to go to the bank. This is annoying, and has convinced me to only use a bank for what is necessary. I can't verify whether this was a genuine concern about fraud, or if it was because it involved cryptocurrency.

I'm wondering if anyone else has had any issues with banks when purchasing crypto recently. This particular bank doesn't seem very friendly to cryptocurrencies because of previous actions, but I've also had no problems. I've also transferred out larger amounts with no issue other than confirming that I wanted to send it over the phone.

My works unfortunately only pays via bank, and therefore owning a bank is necessary. However, I'm thinking about regular withdrawals, and converting to Bitcoin. However, for that to happen I need a bank which actually allows me to send via the internet, and not go to a branch which isn't even local to me.  I understand, that banks try to protect their customers from large amounts or any unusual actions, but requiring my physical presence is often not convenient, and prevents me from moving my money whenever I want. Although, because of this happening to me personally this has personally reinforced my beliefs that whenever possible you should be in complete control of your money (private keys), and use a system which you do not rely on third parties like Bitcoin, but this is still rather annoying.