Topic: Banned Account Question (Read 2018 times)

There is an argument that some permabans (relating to signature spam) should be a 60 or 90 day ban and then a 6 month signature ban with post/activity minimums (based on their previous posting activity), and perhaps after that, have reduced signature abilities for some time after that.

I am not sure that plagiarism should be a category that should allow these types of extended "2nd chance" bans, especially if they have made many plagiarized posts. 

Separately, there is an argument that bans for plagiarism should be delayed by a week, or 20 posts from the time a moderator discovers the infraction. The purpose of this would be too see if they will continue plagiarizing many times, or if they did something stupid on one or two posts. Someone who copies 5-10 of their next 20 posts is clearly not someone we want around, while someone who copies 1-2 ever might deserve some leniency, especially if they make generally insightful posts. This would help decide if someone will have *really* "learned their lesson" and wont make the mistake of copying content a second time.

Contact theymos and see if he can implement a specific signature ban for you instead and reinstate your account. This is something he said he might implement a while ago (and I'm sure he could do individual ones now in certain cases). A signature ban would probably be more appropriate in certain situations and especially to those who are going to contribute in other ways whilst removing the possibility of earning here (which is probably a significant punishment in itself).

Maybe signatures of spammers/plagiarisers should be removed indefinitely or removed until they've achieved x amount of merit then they're reinstated. Most users probably won't bother and just abandon the account but for those who aren't here just to earn and are willing to contribute maybe that would be a sufficient penance for their 'crime'. 

I'm answering to a troll, but whatever:

Obviously it is not the view of the forum. I am only telling you that some countries allow plagiarism even on academic level studies. I have not mentioned anything about myself.

Extremes are almost always the incorrect way. So maybe forum policy should not be to permanently ban these users... Maybe just some years, or maybe some kind of appealing process?

I came here and gave my sob story.  I pleaded my case profusely/aggressively trying to show my worth. I asked for forgiveness. Over the past months I’ve read countless ban posts of the same ilk.  I now feel foolish to put it lightly.  For the last 8 months I’ve read countless Meta posts, re-read the rules a 100 times, wrote 5 pages of a planned 10 page paper on plagiarism (this is one difficult task but I did learn a lot from my half way finished effort..for instance you can even plagiarize yourself quite easily), and thought about how I could come back here and prove my self-worth and be deserving of another shot here.

However it became more and more clear to me that no matter what I said or did I’d likely have absolutely no chance at coming back.  Though I have given up hope completely, I did recently stumbled on the “funny ban appeal threads” and was compelled to write this..  Some are pretty damn funny I admit. Many are the same nonsense and really piss poor excuses. But I know personally not all are bull shit fairy tales.  After reading my name being specifically mentioned in Meta recently and falsehoods being suggested, I felt I had to set a few things straight.  I didn’t make one thing up that I said.  I’m embarrassed by my rant..but I was being honest. Too honest I now realize.  However, I realize the sob story is something no one is going to know if it has any merit to or not (outside a few buddies of mine here), nor give a shit about in all likelihood!  I realize now why I’m banned and others whom committed other terrible acts such as fraud..are not.  My crimes are easily provable. I do get that completely now.

I honestly don’t know what I was thinking by making those several posts that day I plagiarized.  I really don’t.  Not why I made them, but why I plagiarized..nor wtf was going on in my head that day. I made the posts because I promised Atriz my signature manager I would never let him down on my post count.  What I made from that campaign in a week hardly pays for a single meal out where I live.  It wasn’t about the money what so ever.  Well, it kind of was. The more money I can make in life..the more I can give back.  Every single satoshi ever made on those campaigns can be seen going right back to charity, here on this forum. These things I wanted to set the record straight with. I am not signature campaign money hungry for personal gain.

For 8 months I’ve watched many opportunities pass by where I feel I could have added value to the forum. My post history is pretty telling of what kind of forum member I believe I mostly was.  My topics are either detailed posts to really try and add value here or for collectibles purposes. 

Hilarious and Theymos…I respect you guys and I fully understand where you’re coming from.  However, you’ve both stated you’d be willing to let a member back who you feel would contribute positively moving forward (likely with stipulations).  Besides my lapse in common sense one day..I’ve done nothing but try and contribute positively here.  Plenty of it being pre-signature days too.  So..put me to the test!! Fuck my signature, hell ban me from it for good.  Give me a chance and I will still be here, still contributing, whether now or a year from now. Easy promise I can make/keep.
 
I appreciate everyone who spanked me verbally but in a professional way.  I’m really thankful for those who I either don’t know or hardly know, whom showed a bit of faith in me..  LoyceV , DarkStar, Lauda, Pharmacist, JetCash, and several others to be more specific.  I respect all of you quite a bit. I know you all care a lot about this place as do I and you work hard for nothing more than to better bitcoin. I'm sorry for my selfish and childish actions.  Period. 

It would be safe to say that is not the view of the forum.
It really doesn't matter if your university has a lax view on plagiarism - think of what would happen to the forum if plagiarism was tolerated.

I also feel the urge to voice myself here. I think Chi should not be banned for this plagiarism case. He's net positive for the community and it is in my eyes unfair to have him banned while (for comparison), people who should've been banned years ago are still here.

Also, I'd like to note that plagiarism isn't seen as a bad thing everywhere in the world. For example, in some eastern countries plagiarism is perfectly fine even in the academic level. It's not seen as stealing others work everywhere in the world. In the big picture, after all, the main thing is that information spreads -- even if the information/content is copied/plagiarized. For example, spreading disinformation should be a much bigger offence than not citing original source of content/information. This is how I think of these things.

@Theymos,

The Chi I know is a valuable member of this community, and it is my opinion that there would be no regrets in letting him back in from the dog house. He has been doing a lot lately on the forum in support of my brothers project, Haven - a project initially funded by a Rocket Grant from the Andy Warhol Foundation. From my perspective, what's good for Chi is arguably good for the forum, our future and our environment. I've known him for some time, and communicate with him often.

I believe he is remorseful and deserves a second chance 

https://i.imgur.com/MzPc79c.jpg

Sincere regards,

Kialara

He was unbanned by Cyrus.

I am a person who very much believes in Exceptions in literally anything and everything. We all know that people are assholes/scumbags/pricks and what not. But at the end of the day,there exists a few people that deserves a second chance. That second chance may or maynot be at a cost,but if there is,ChiBitCTy is proving himself that he'll keep up to it. Maybe give him a permanent punishment of never wearing any signatures/a 3-month ban/something that is possible and at the same time,is a punishment. I believe ChiBitCTy has contributed more to this forum than Loneshark(?),comparatively.

theymos, was there any specific reason why you un-banned Loanshark?

Just throwing my two satoshis in here, Chi does contribute to the forum and community. I never would have donated my test bars for a charity auction if not for his running one. It seems a shame to perma ban a good guy.

I was 100% wrong. I cheated. I didn’t properly source several posts and I’m 100% at fault. Period, no excuses.

I’d happily give up signature campaigns if that meant I could come back. I’d happily serve any punishment handed out to get another chance.

Theymos, I can’t prove you or anyone else wrong if not given a chance.

(Also ..The Nazi germany statement was said in bad taste and I apologize if I offended anyone. I was simply trying to stress giving someone a second chance doesn’t have to be a bad thing. Not that I’ve suffered or will if banned like the millions that’s have by the hands of that sickening regime )

I hope to get another chance, but if not ..I have only myself to blame. Tyler

Lots of assumptions there, I’m not sure why you would suggest I don’t know what has been posted here or elsewhere?

I’m sorry if I cracked a comment in a post that was serious. I will make sure that instead clear of the boys club posts in the future.

Hopefully you Understand how to read between the lines.

I wonder if either of you actually understand the post you were responding to, and how it relates to each of your responses.

I am guessing no, and you probably didn’t bother to closely read the posts you were responding to either.

I think there's no problem by the company to demand a minimum counts of words as requirements in signature campaigns. As long as you have been paid. First, think about it. You will just post around 30 words or 200char per post and 30 times a week then you will get paid or have shares from the company / ico / project. It was a simple task to earn money. If you ask me, I will be better to construct a paragraph even I'm not good in english than to do a construction worker where I was to be.

I go for this forum because 1 of my friend in construction quit due to he was earning cash here. Not just earning but a way too high than our basic salary in construction. Which I tried now. So, I am wishing to have find a company or project that I will work for too like my friend. But as of now no one would hire me in signature campaign because of my level.

So bro, start again. and avoid doing it again. so you can earn much cash here than like my work.

Great idea we could do thing like he film purge. You can do anything you want for that one day to get it out of your system but after that you must abide by the law!

Let's suspend all the rules and have a blast; every person for themselves! Let's also give every account (army or no) a vote! Let's be a FULL democracy and vote on everything, majority rules!
Do I need a sarc tag here?

First: I'm not active in Collectibles, and I've only sparcely seen ChiBitCTy on the forum. I've got many accounts banned for plagiarism, and none of them will be missed.

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I don't get it: if you quote someone, the quoted part won't (or shouldn't!) be counted for the 200 character requirement for your signature campaign. And in that case you did purposely plagiarize by omitting the source.

That being said:

Lack of sleep, worries and stress can temporarily cloud someone's judgement. I don't generally care for sob stories, but I do know it takes its toll on you in real life.

I'm always thinking: what if it happens to me someday? I must have embedded some images I found on Google in some of my old posts. The reference is in the URL, but not in the post.
Recently, I was typing jibberish and totally messing up quotes when I had a fever, and as a family with young kids and busy days I suffer from a continuous lack of sleep. I'd hate to lose access to my favourite forum if I ever mess up one way or another.

But the rules do allow exceptions:

This would be a good statement to put in your signature for a month, if you get unbanned.

This will be a waste of time for a generic shitposter who commits plagiarism. But I'd be in favour of this as an exception for good posters who slipped once.

If I may add my 2 satoshis, also considering Lone Shark's unban and ChiBitCTy's contributions (which I saw listed for the first time when I read this thread): I believe a (long) temporary ban would do the community more good than a permanent ban.

I think that is a great idea as well, but only if it is the result of a successful ban appeal.

That is a great idea and one that theymos should consider, also make the ban lifetime if after reinstatement they join any bounties.

Corruption/nepotism/favouritism by bending the rules for certain people who have a few friends here isn't a good thing either. I'm all for second chances but only if it's fair to everyone. The rules about copy and pasting are very strict here and shouldn't be bent or broken just for one or two people otherwise it leaves a gaping hole in the system that everyone will want to exploit or use as a reference/excuse as the previous time someone was let off has been here.

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People who get caught copy and pasting should have their signature removed for a year or something. See if they stick around and contribute something worthwhile and if they do then they get it back. That way you can still contribute but you can't earn and having the signature removed for a year is better than indefinitely with a ban.

Theymos and more of the forum are very strict. They will ban users who seriously violate the forum rules. Ad'nd after get banned (permanently), I don't see any chance to unban.
Let's start from new account and avoid such stupid mistake in the future.
I understand that this is not a comfortable feeling, but that guy should accept the fact.

About 0% of those are tags that were sent as a direct result of someone spamming. You're really desperate.

Read before you respond (shitposting et. al.).


Unless I missed someone, it's literally just one.

Can't banned people log in, but just not do anything?

Yeah, right. Attribute motives when you can think of nothing to say. Grow up, Lauda.


Congratulations on having a remarkably short memory. 
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.16852208


That is correct. The posts were edited later, but would still be visible to the admins, I believe. In the example quoted by Theymos, the plagiarism is still evident as only a few words were changed.
You are right about the mud slinging, except maybe Lauda's unprovoked attack. 
On a serious note, people may hesitate to give strong opinions against the OP when there are DT members speaking up in favour of him.

OP didn't cite a source and that is an issue, I believe he changed the posts after realising he had broken a rule.

On another note it's great to have a controversial discussion without mud slinging.

Amazing read looks like a family discussing an internal dispute... whatever the outcome is I guess this should be a lesson to ChiBitCTy and all of us, plagiarism is crime. It was clear copy/paste case he got caught. Only possible action from him should have been  --an apology-- this should have been your second post after your ban question.

Hope you will get a second chance.

ChiBitCTy was active today so looks like ban has been lifted?  Update please if there is a good news

Yes, that is correct. However you generally cannot make posts with nothing other than a quote, especially when the quote in question does not anything meaningful to the conversation.

I don’t know this person and I don’t think he is innocent.

But copy and paste with a quote is legal.

Correct ?

I searched your sent trust and found 89 instances of the word "SMAS" in your sent trust, and 437 instances of the word "spam" in your sent trust (some of these may be overlapping). I think it is safe to say your statement that you are not tagging people for spamming is a lie.

theymos gave his general criteria above. He said he will want you to stay if you are a net positive to the forum. Granted this is very vague.

theymos also gave insight into his thought process for not allowing the OP to have his ban lifted. His actions were generally in line with other spammers whose mindset is to make as much as possible in the short term without regard to the damage his actions will have on others within the community.

Having a rule in place is no substitute for using good judgment.

I guess I would say to determine how severe the copy/paste spam is. You can ask questions such as, how many instances of this kind of spam are there (can you find more or less than two instances fairly quickly)? Were measures taken to cover this activity up (such as adding random words throughout the post)? Was this person getting paid to make these spam posts? How good is this person's post quality when they are not copy/paste spamming? Could it be reasonable to say this person is somewhat helpful to others (that you are aware of)? The answers to these questions should help determine just how harmful their actions are, and if a permmaban is appropriate.

Merely out of intellectual curiosity, would you care to explain how being banned for blatantly breaking the rules of the forums (not to mention international copyright law) is even remotely comparable to the oppressive conditions of Nazi Germany?

Plagiarizing posts when participating in a signature campaign is nothing short of scamming the company paying you to wear their signature. Period, end of discussion, there is no other way to look at this.

Disregarding the fact that plagiarism in itself is wrong, as a general rule, plagiarizing content via google (or other websites) in the middle of a thread will generally not result in you adding to the conversation in any meaningful way, so you are essentially trashing the thread you are posting in for your own personal benefit. Further, if someone does respond to what you said plagiarized, you will likely be unable to engage in any meaningful conversation, assuming you bother to later look at the thread in question.

Another concern about plagiarizing around here is that it would be fairly trivial for someone to automate the posting of random garbage from google search results into threads. So this will not save you a few minutes to make a post, it will save you hours (or more) to make many posts. This along with the above, is a major problem. I suspect a fairly decent number of copy/paste spammers are using some kind of automation tool to do so.


Anytime someone is permabanned, they will be removed from the community, so an evaluation will need to be made to decide if this is a net benefit or not. In most cases, this is easy because the person in question provides essentially zero positive, and a decent amount of negative.

I would not personally give a lot of positive credit to someone who has done a few trades for profit among a small group of friends. This is not exactly something that demonstrates large amounts of integrity, nor does it have an especially large impact on the community economy.

I think a better measure of someone's integrity is how they act when (they think that) no one is looking, or when no one can see what they are doing. If you have someone's private keys, what happens to the money tells more about someone verses if someone repays a loan 10 times larger, or completes a trade valued 10 times larger. In this case, ChiBitCTy thought no one would see his plagiarism, and did it regardless of the harm it would cause, and regardless of the fact this is wrong.

If you are arguing for ChiBitCTy to be unbanned, your argument should start and end with "ChiBitCTy is my friend and would like for him to be allowed to stay", especially if you are among those that try to "clean the forum". To make any other argument is nothing other than dishonest and nepotism. Maybe these people have some motive other than "cleaning the forum" in their actions. This may or may not be a sufficient argument to allow ChiBitCTy to get unbanned, probably not considering the severity of the damage he has done, but maybe for something not quite as bad.

You should complain to Lauda about this.

Kind Regards
Panthers52

Look, no one is saying your overall contribution to the forum isn't a positive one. I am in agreement with this opinion, but the fact remains that you willingly plagiarized. There is a very good chance you will be unbanned down the line, but not with your current attitude. Go re-read your "apology" post again. Here is one of my favorite lines:


Did someone put a gun to your head and force you to plagiarize? Why would anyone believe you are contrite when you won't even accept responsibility for your own actions? The rest of the post follows along the same lines, you listing reasons why you should be allowed back/forgiven rather than actually owning up to what you did. No good apology ever won people over by simply trivializing one's actions. You save all those reasons for the post you make a month from now asking to be unbanned, a post I guarantee the administration (not just your friends) would be more receptive towards.

This post is more of the same, you listing reasons why you're such a good member and deserve to have an exception. The biggest part of proving that you deserve a second chance is accepting your punishment and actually taking some time off the forums. Come back and plead your case when you really do understand what you've done wrong. In my opinion, any arguments you make now will only hurt your chances in the long run.

I knew that I would receive crap for my last post but it was honest.  I f*#$d up during a difficult time, period. I cheated, I was wrong, it's 100% stupid and I understand what those consequences are now.  It was over a very short period of time where I wasn't by a computer and I made a major lapse in judgment and took the lazy way out.  It was mindless, a mistake..but I was wrong.  I'm guilty and I've never denied this.  

Theymos, you mention that you'd be willing to give me another chance if you thought I'd be a positive contributing member here. Since this thing was brought up several months ago, there has been zero plagiarism since.  There's a reason many have come to my defense here and it's because they know I'm not just another shit poster.  How many people here spend time to go after scam ICO's, to break down white papers and help others.  I can't tell you how many hours I spent warning others of Bitconnect on and off this forum.  I've posted numerous threads warning others of scams such as allthingsdecentral.com, Pecun ICO, Infinitum ICO/Company etc.  I have spent countless hours fighting FUD, learning all about the Lighting Network and using a fantastic write up a friend wrote as a basis to show others why the L.N. makes sense for bitcoin's future (if you asked this member I'm pretty sure he'd tell you I bug him more than I should.. looking to learn).  I have had to correct countless Hero and Legendary members over and over for pure nonsense such as how and why bitcoin and ethereum aren't competitors.  As a licensed financial advisor, who got in the industry to help others because I was tired of seeing others being screwed over...yes Theymos I more than know I'd add value going further and quite frankly I know this forum is better off having people like me trying to fight for those with less experience.  It took me a long time to head back outside of collectibles after I first joined here.  I posted about Bitconnect early on and the responses I got were awful.  It can be very hard to get reliable info on the forum at time and I've done nothing but try and combat that.  Again signature campaign or not, I've been here positively contributing much more so than most.  

Personally I don't understand how the guy whom tried extorting me for money a few weeks ago gets to stick around.  How to do those people get to stick around whom have clearly ran/run Ponzi schemes?!  Users whom talk about using bitcoin as a means for illegal animal fighting and or for the drug trade, they don't get banned?

For those of you who want to see me banned, I'm sorry but if you open your history books Nazi Germany wasn't a good thing.  Theymos, I fully understand where they're coming from..at least Theymos is open to the idea if he believes this person would be a positive contributor going forward.

Sometime people DO deserve a second chance.  Sometimes those second chances become a very positive thing.  For all the people whom have stood up for me I'm very thankful.  I have disappointed you all, I've disappointed this forum and I've wasted enough of everyone's time.  But to think I'd ever break a rule again, after everyone came here in my defense...is insane 

Thanks, and I will have a look.

I do not believe it to be off topic actually as paid signature campaigns are at the root of what happened in this situation.  It appears as though ChiBitCty spammed plagiarized materials on a few occasions to bump his post count for a paid signature campaign.  If paid signature campaigns did not exist, motivation to spam posts would disappear.

This is his thread. There were many threads some spanning tens of pages over the course of the past few years. If you are really interested in those discussions, then you should try digging them up yourself (it would take me too much time). Tl;dr of all discussions: Plenty of potential *attacks* on the problem, with all of them having at least some con(s) to it. The last option would be to go nuclear.

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I realize that this is off-topic to the subject of the thread, but it is a closing statement to a part of a relevant post (by Lesbian Cow). However, it would be good to keep it in here and not continue the off-topic discussion. I won't comment on this anymore (here) and neither should you @LC.

Please point me to where this was discussed and answered, I honestly want to know, as I do not venture outside of Collectibles often.

I don't want to look at it with it remaining unanswered. There are a few out somewhat fair options: a) Explanation of that case (then follow up discussion/conclusion). b) Reinstate the ban Loan Shark and keep ban on OP (and make no exceptions moving forth). c) Leave Loan Shark as is, unban OP and *somewhat define* potential exceptions (theymos did address this to some extent, but it is definitely not enough to be used as a reference).
Avoiding a) implies that the staff member in question is being protected from criticism, which I understand but not necessarily agree with (in all cases).

It does, but you also thinking that you are going to come across a numerous cases of people getting banned for this and having notable names (people actively trading inside the Collectibles sections are notable in this context; that's a special area as is) requesting their unban. Additionally, isn't this also the case with permanent bans that aren't related to this rule? Occasionally people complain about theirs in Meta and request unbans.

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Update: Typo here and there.

And this is the exact issue in unbanning even one person creates. Lone shark shouldn't have been unbanned without adding exceptions to the rules for everyone not just one case. We should look at that decision as a hasty error that wasn't thought through properly and we certainly shouldn't be using that one case as a reason to acquiesce to this one unless defined exceptions are made.


But then this is just opening it up to abuse and complaints when mods start unbanning people they like or when friends of people kick up a fuss. We can't say copy and pastes = ban, unless a mod decides otherwise based on no defined criteria.

I wonder what the incentive behind that is.

I am not tagging people for spamming, and I believe that nobody else is doing that right now either. You've proven yourself to be a biased hypocrite. Since you clearly have nothing useful to say, move along.

Some people appeal to decentralization when it suits them, and not when it doesn't. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Look at the number of people who have been tagged by DT members for so called spamming (whilest the moderators do not think that these accounts deserve even a temporary ban). Yet the very same people are here defending plagiarism, which has resulted in a permanent ban. I find it amusing that you are calling me a hypocrite.  
My stance has always been the same. Plagiarism should result in a permanent ban.

You could have argued that before, but after 1 exception has been made you no longer can.

I don't think you could set up a "grading check mark kind of list" for something like that. When it comes to making exceptions, it should be a case-by-case basis but that would involve a lot of work (obviously).

Correct, it is not fair. However, some of them have argued their cases and the community consensus (i.e. only the people that might have taken a look at the user and commented) was almost always(?) in favor of the ban. This screams for the answer to the question: How did Loan Shark get unbanned and why? I would argue that this case would remain unfair without a proper answer to this; i.e. it is not possible to understand why an exception has been made before to properly understand why it shouldn't be made now (since theymos and you seem to be arguing this).

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Disclaimer case: I only ever had a few very brief interactions with this user, and I'm not part of any off-site collector groups thus nobody can consider me arguing as part of/in favor of any "clique".

Proposed, discussed, and answered before. It is not happening, at least not yet. Let's not start this discussion (again) here.

Hi theymos,

I certainly cannot find any fault with your logic, pretty spot on.

All I will add is that while ChiBitCty clearly made several terrible errors in judgement in the past regarding the plagiarized posts/spam posts, during the time I have observed him in the Collectibles section he has been a positive contributor.  His charity auctions are just one of many examples of his positive behaviour. Perhaps his current, and future positive potential, outweigh his past mistakes, but it is certainly your forum to make such decisions.

On a related topic, in 2014 and 15 I spent a lot more time in other areas of the forum - speculation and bitcoin discussion specifically.  There was a lot of crap back then, but also a lot of great discussions.  I now just stay in the collectibles section as everywhere else seems over run with spam posts to get signature campaign money.

Instead of making endless rules to combat spam, have you considered attacking the source and banning paid signature campaigns?  Seems to me that would be the quickest way to eliminate spam, improve discussions throughout the forum, and alleviate work load on already taxed moderators.  Just a thought...

Cheers!

But copy and pasting is black and white: Copy and paste = ban. Making exceptions to the rule just screams of favouritism or nepotism and doing so is opening up a huge can of worms that we're going to have to deal with when everybody else starts making their case to be unbanned. What grounds do we give exceptions to plagiarism from now on? If they have a few friends here? They've done a few trades? They have sick relatives? They're a Senior Member and above? They've done a giveaway? They've made a helpful post? To me this is literally just bending or re-writing the rules to serve a friend of somebody and nobody has been asking for exceptions to the rule before this.


But how do we now equate them? There have been numerous people who have been banned for one or just a few copy and pastes. It's not fair to all those users who made a silly mistake and never got the chance to establish themselves here. Maybe they would have been different had they received a warning first or had a second chance.

I'd also like to congratulate DarkStar_ in getting on DT.  Congrats!  I have not looked at the trust you've left for people, but get ready for the onslaught of

....and on and on.  I'm sure you've already experienced this to some extent, but it's much worse when you're on DT. 

You deserve it.  You're a straight shooter, and you run Chipmixer very well.  Ass kissing done.

I don't have strong feelings about ChiBitCTy2 getting banned, since I haven't interacted with him and can't remember anything he's posted, but if he doesn't get a second chance it's to be expected.  My jaw kind of dropped when Lone Shark got his ban reversed, and then he was kind of a dick about the whole thing to boot, if I recall correctly.  Either way, the support he's garnered here should mean something.  Rules are rules, but the community's voice should be given the appropriate weight as far as what the consequences are to copy/pasting.

Yet Lone Shark[1] has been unbanned, meaning that the rules have already been bent. Your hypocrisy is astounding.

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[1] I have nothing against this user.

Whilst I can understand you thinking it's a clique I can assure you it's not, head over to the collectibles board and see for yourself, many of us will be vocal as there is an awful lot of trust in that board. Some of us trade and collect physical bitcoins, I always have items with other members I trust (shipping to my location can be a pain, especially when talking items for tens of thousands of dollars). Due to that the trust levels are immense as escrow is rarely used so being told that an upstanding member is banned is a bit of a shock.

Anyway Theymos has made his stance clear, a shame really as chi has shown nothing other than integrity apart from this incident.

I hope this puts an end to the discussion here. I was beginning to get worried that a small clique of older members could get the rules bent. Thankfully, this is not the case.
Now we do not have to be worried about other spammers using this as a precedent.

Concise explanation and stance on plagiarism. I hope this is read and read often.

I mostly agree with hilarious's posts. The plagiarism was exactly the same offense as any member of the typical spammer flood, with exactly the same mindset: "I want money -> I need to make x posts with y words to make money -> the easiest way to do that is to copy/paste something from elsewhere", with complete disregard for your own integrity, the health of the forum, the ongoing discussion, or fairness in crediting the actual author. If someone copy/pasted something that was amazingly high-quality and on-topic, I'd understand more (though you'd still get banned), but almost always people copy the first thing that they find on Google. To be so lazy that you won't even make up your own low-quality post, but instead save a few minutes by importing some garbage from the wider Internet, is a massive insult to this forum's community, and is proof that at least in that moment the only thing you cared about was money-making.

I don't believe in a "strict rule of law"; even if it's written somewhere that "copy/paste = permaban", I'm willing to relax that on occasion. If you're going to be a net positive to the forum going forward, then I probably want you here, even if you've made past mistakes. But someone who at any point copy/pastes garbage like this has proven that they have an utterly broken mindset when it comes to the forum, and I have a really hard time believing that such a person will be a net positive going forward.

As I've argued elsewhere, when deciding on a punishment you can't, and should not look at a case as it were a black and white issue. Look at every law system in any somewhat sane country. Besides, the Loan Shark ban removal has set a precedence for other unbans of more notable people.

A real world example: Sentencing someone who is a pristine member of their community without any criminal background, vs. sentencing someone who is a horrible member + ex convict. They would not receive the same punishment (in some cases the difference between the respective sentences is somewhat extreme).

You're drawing to a false equivalency. You can't equate a random shitposter that literally does nothing other than shitpost to get money with someone who is actively involved/engaged in the community. Additionally, I'd argue that less than 1% of the people that got banned for this behavior would fall in the 2nd category (which is obviously a number I just randomly threw out based on my memory of the past cases that I've seen). I might argue this more, but this is a bigger issue than this case (as you've mentioned) and would probably go somewhat off-topic.

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My reaction would be similar to this, regardless of its validity.

If someone gives, helps and integrates into this community it is one thing (as in this case) if someone comes in shitposts, copy/pastes and leaches full time (Pajeet) it is another.

It is not that Chi is a friend I would speak up for anyone I was aware of in the same situation, now don't get me wrong I do not condone what he did (I think I called him a stupid prick when it happened) but he was tagged and learnt his lesson a few months ago, I would check his posts and see what it did to him when  DarkStar_ tagged him.

But when one of these "pajeet" posters as you like to call them does the same you're not defending them saying they just probably haven't read the rules.


I would have had more respect for you if you just apologised without the sob story. This is the same old crap everyone else uses when they get banned. You're literally trying to say that you only copy and pasted because your mother was ill. I'm not sure why copy and pasting would take your mind off things as opposed to actually using your mind to come up with a post yourself. You got caught cheating on a signature campaign and likely only did this to hit your quote, and if it was any other shitposter trying these excuses they would be laughed off the forum.


It seems they can when their "friend" gets caught doing something but they've never made these arguments before for the hundreds of other posters who get caught doing the same. This is a bigger issue than just ChiBitCTy. Do we forgive the thousands of others who have been caught doing the same? Or maybe only when they have a few friends here, haven't read the rules or have an unbelievably pitiful sob story? If we're going to unban people under certain circumstances we may as well stop banning people for copy and pastes and just let the community leave them appropriate feedback instead.

I believe you were in the Moonlite campaign during your copy/pasting, which has a requirement of:


200 characters isn't that hard to reach; this post is now 200 characters excluding the quote, and it's not very long.

It looks like this was reported several months ago, I am not sure why this was just acted upon recently.

If it means anything the person theymos thinks has zero moral virtue believes that the OP is a "legitimate user" and presumably thinks should not be banned.

Kind Regards
Panthers52

Theymos has a valid point.

After reading the provided link (Thank you, theymos.), it is clear to me that this was straight plagiarism. It's still unclear to me if ChiBitCTy was trying to claim the words as his own (I strongly doubt that he was), or if he was simply taking a lazy shortcut by re-posting (without proper credit) what he felt was a great answer from someone else.

There is also the question of if he was doing so to meet a sig campaign quota (or whatever sig campaigns use to credit their payouts). To me, that should be between the sig campaign owner and ChiBitCTy, but it's not my forum; it's not my rule.


TMAN has a valid point too.

ChiBitCTy is a respected member of this community "who really does add value to this place."

It would be a shame to lose him over something like this.


I think that everyone, regardless of their stance on this particular issue, can agree with the above.


Theymos,

What if we compromise on the issue? What if ChiBitCTy were to make a public mea culpa here? If he were to post a public and sincere "sorry, won't do it again," then might you consider unbanning him? (Obviously, more worded and heart-felt than that brief example.)

I'm not asking you to agree to this solution, only to genuinely consider it. I trust and respect your final decision, theymos.

Regards,
Chris

EDIT: It looks like ChBitCTY has already apologized. Well done, ChiBitCTy.

N/a

congrats/commiserations.. I wonder how quick till you rise to the ranks of Pharmapussy and laura in the hated stakes..

I do think this is a case of a mistake by a respected member who hadn't read the rules. Whilst I see the forum stance on it, I also see that Chi is a great member of the community who really does add value to this place.

True, but you do count now. Vod had also given negative trust at one point of time for copy-pasting, but I guess that was removed considering Chit's other activities.

I was not the reporter, that was creamy08 I believe.


I literally got added to DT2 last night or this morning (I think?) so I don't know if I really count right now.

Why are people acting surprised or feigning shock when it is such a clear case of plagiarism and he already has negative trust from a DT2 member for it? Rules are always rules, unless they are broken by somebody close to us.

So we should unfairly punish users from certain countries and give older users a free pass to copy and paste? And he also only copied and pasted for the sig money. Why else would he have done it.


Lone Shark shouldn't have been unbanned. This is the issue with unbanning one user makes. Everyone else then wants the exception so that's why the rules should be clear. Copy and paste = perma ban. Not copy and paste = perma ban, unless you're a Senior user and run charity auctions. More veteran users should be more aware of the rules and punishments.

To err is human....to forgive divine.

Please give him another chance.

yeah cmon man!

am sure if you give him a chance!  he will make sure to never do it again! It wasn't intentional and he is a great member to the community!

Ahh come on Theymos, lots of people speaking up for him.. even the User who reported him thinks he needs a pass.. He is running a charity auction right now, surely someone with good intentions just gets a slap on the wrist?

I think Chi might be worth making an exception for? He seems to actually contribute, more than Loan Shark (imo) did anyway, and Lone Shark was unbanned from his copy/pasting ban. While I don't trust him too much due to his actions, he does seem like a genuinely good person.

Fair enough. Thank you. 

https://www.quora.com/Should-I-sell-my-house-and-invest-in-bitcoin-as-I-can-only-buy-4-bitcoins-as-of-now-after-selling-my-home/answer/Apurva-Patel-28


 

I am shocked that ChiBitCTy has been banned! In my personal experiences with him (crypto-related and otherwise), he is a perfectly stand-up guy, and I would trust him and the quality of his posts over many of the people who've never been banned. Please, mods, forgive and reconsider the ban. ChiBitCTy is an asset to the BitcoinTalk community, and losing him would be a sad mistake.

As for the plagiarism, I understand and appreciate the strict rules. I was a professional writer for a few years, and there is nothing I detest more than intentional plagiarism. However, this doesn't seem to be intentional plagiarism, but more of an innocent and (more importantly) forgivable act of accidental source omission.

Please reconsider, mods. It would be unfortunate to see a respected BitcoinTalk Member such as ChiBitCTy no longer contributing to our wonderful (and forgiving?) community.

Thank you for taking the time to read this, mods, and for reconsidering the banishment.

Sincerely,
Chris

Yeah this is total horseshit... He was allowed to be here 2 months after this, and suddenly today he gets banned? Fuck that, that's not right. With all the shitposters and people breaking rules left and right, this just doesn't make sense. This guy is a top-notch trader, in the middle of a charity auction, FFS. 

chi is a great person, i have made various trades with him and i trust him. would trust the guy with any amount without an issue.

His posts are creative and good. He got the lesson of not copy pasting long ago and he never did it.

He is doing charity auctions and not making anything on it. also gave away his winnings from a previous raffle.

It's really a bummer to see him banned.

imho he should be given one last chance with time ban instead of permban. he is an asset to collector's community and a great and trustworthy guy. THere are many more guys out there who deserve bann rather than him

Ok...so perhaps the first time around he did not know or was not aware of that rule.

Once warned I am sure he did not repeat the same mistake twice.

If anything besides his charity auctions he is also a major auction participant amongst the collectible physical crypto community.

Of all the people to ban I just don't understand this one, Chi is a great person we have done a few deals together and it always works out. We have even made some crazy bets on sports and he ALWAYS paid up when he lost

Maybe someone mad at him just reported him to the mods and mods didn't see the reference post/neg trust till now. I don't think mods check every untrusted feedback on every account.

That was a while ago, why the ban now? It isn't as if he is some Pajeet poster only here for the sig moniez..

check out the charity auction he is currently running. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/charity-auctions-random-lots-charity-auctions-haven-save-the-bees2-3378087

I get that rules are rules.. I just think there are probably 100 other posters who deserve a ban more than someone who is big in the collectibles community.

You copy/pasted from an article without quoting it or posting the source. The penalty for this action is a direct account ban.

You can read the full list of forum rules here:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.7955645

This is the rule you broke:

I was the very first person to deal with Chi, he has been nothing but a trustworthy and reliable trading partner. I don't understand why you have banned this user

Chi and I go back a long time and have traded with him with in thousands of $ in btc ...never an escrow needed. He is a stand up guy that I trusted and will continue to do so. He is well kown in the collectables section as well. Why is this happening to him at all?

I have know Chi for a long time, he has held thousands of dollars of my Physical collectibles with no issues and I know him to be a stand up member of the community.

Did you miss this red trust by Don DarkStar?

Reference: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.30964947

Hello Mods- I am wondering why I've been locked out/banned from my account ( https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/chibitcty-904524 ). I've got nothing but green trust and I'm unaware of what I did wrong.  Any help is MUCH appreciated.  Thanks you.