Topic: Be The Judge... (Read 279 times)

The gambler and the shop owner are both to blame for their own fault. It starts with the shop owner's not paying the winning ticket which means he has a liquidity problem for sure, goes to the gambler's uncontrolable gambing habit and subsequent escalation to violence. Everyone involved in the fight with thugs should be punished and nobody can just walk away. What I am saying may sound like a judge that does not know the situation well but after hearing my story, you will definitely understand why I could say so.

The FIFA World Cup 2022 just ended less than two weeks ago and fans all over the world were thrilled about all exciting matches. As you know, there must be a lot gamblings involved as well. I myself was playing lottery tickets together with one of my friends and in the beginning, we won several plays. The only difference between my story and the one OP mentioned is that we gambled online and I gave my complete trust to my friend. He downloaded an app and did all instruction every time we placed our bets. The bets we threw in were about $100 in total and the returns was like $200 to $250, which was quite good. We were both happy until the third place game between Croatia and Morocco. We bet as usual before the game and luckily we won so the "online shop owner" should pay us $200 and my friend and I would split the profit. However, the "online shop owner" disappeared. My friend called him and tried his best to find their "physical shop" in the city but there was nothing to be found. I was also very angry but guess what ?  I did not yell at my friend or even put more questions on him. Instead, I just consoled him that just try to find the guy, if not, we'd better see this as a bad investment. You know why I held back my anger ? Well, I know for sure, the guy had taken all gamblers' money and gone. There was nothing we could do to change the fact. If I saw red and blamed my friend for the loss, I would definitely lose a friend. Who was the one that gave his trust to other people ? Me. Who was the one that did not forsee any risk gambling online ? Me. So why should I bother all other people ? Besides, I already earned money in the first place and there was actually nothing to lose for me. Hence, better keep the thing that way.

To me, I blame both parties, but I blame the bet attendant the more for not having a proper and effective book keeping/records of all transactions and games played 24hours 7days a week, because this is just a minor cause that would have been resolved amicably had the Bet-shop attendant able to communicate to the misunderstanding how he finally finished his amount won step-by-step while trying to gamble for more. Because one thing about gambling is that it has this keep of spirit that until you have finally exhausted your funds, it will never clear off your eyes.

It definitely does happen in the USA.

In the city I used to live in, there was a basketball court next to a small skate park. There was a guy playing basketball who had a gold necklace from his deceased grandma. He put the necklace on the ground with his things when he was playing basketball, so it wouldn't get damaged or broken. When he came back, his gold necklace was gone. Someone had stolen it.

There were words exchanged and some type of altercation. The guy with the missing necklace left the basketball courts. Then he returned with 2 truckloads of thugs. And a big brawl broke out. Don't remember if he ever found his missing necklace but it was the talk of the town for awhile.

When I was in high school, there was a student who brought a gun to school who was showing it to his friends in class. When school ended, there was a helicopter flying above the school which was very unusual. The student with the gun was taken down by police, at the bus stop. Within a few minutes of him being arrested, a few carloads of thugs showed up as if to show moral support for their arrested gun touting member, but they didn't do anything.

The US doesn't allow for those types of small lotteries to be operated by independent buisness owners. It can only be done illegally, under the table. Which there definitely is a lot of underground illegal gambling that is known to happen. That could be the main reason, we haven't heard similar stories from the USA.

..

Was the reason behind them not paying out winning tickets on time discovered? Fast payouts is something gamblers definitely favor. It they can't payout winning tickets on time. It could indicate they're having trouble with credit or liquidity. The smart move is to take business somewhere else.

On the opposite end, lotteries should probably not allow someone to exceed credit to a point where they owe $5. That could cross the line into hustling. They could never payout winnings and simply offer credit to every winning gambler, until all of them turn into a losing gamblers. And it would be more of a hustle and scam than a legitimate business.

Really hard to make out conclusions because the thing that should really be known on here is into those tickets been bought by that certain bettor, if he did really spend all of those winnings on buying
tickets or not.If the bettor cant represent those tickets then the game shop should at least present out on how many tickets and on what day that bettor decide on betting and its impossible that there wouldnt
be a list out or breakdown out of those things because its impossible that they wouldnt really be making a list which it would really be that shady on their part.
Things turns out to be a mess just because of that almost $200 bucks. lol

This case is safe explanatory, because the man who won and asked to come on Monday and take his money won in a betting center or shop is at fault, because what lead him into gambling with the its unpaid payment is greediness and lack of understanding and knowledge, because assuming it waited until Monday it wont have resulted brutality the way am seeing it. And secondly i believe that the man who the betting shop is not anywhere at fault, because the purpose establishing it gambling center is for people to patronize it's shops, so the man that won bet is the master of problem behind the police and other things causing the problem.

You are right, the player couldn't control his addiction and has gone ahead to gamble all his winnings and even some extra bets on credit.

That is a pour case of gambling addiction, if not he should have waited to collect his winning the following Monday before Betting again Instead of optioning in to bet from the winning he has not collected.

The question is what if he won a large amount t will the casino owner have been able to pay since the casino operator is already out of cash?

Yes, the whole story remains to be unclear. Until the police finish with the investigation and found the truth, whoever that be that is in fault, he should be put in jail. Otherwise, both parties should be put in jail and learn their lesson. Just because of $198, the whole chaos has got even more worst and very damaging. Both have not been thinking well.

I wonder why the gambling shop just didn't give the winnings the same day the gambler tried to collect it or the day the gambler went back to their shop to gamble again. I am not defending the gambler or anything but all the issues that happened could have been avoided with just those two things. anyway, both are at fault, the gambling shop for not giving the winning when the gamblers tried to collect it and the gambler for escalating the issue into violence.

Don't be offended OP but is that some third world that you guys live in?

First of all it was less than $200 and the owner of business was out of money? This would've never happened in the EU or the US. You send someone to the closest ATM and the guy with the winning ticket gets paid on the spot. IN the EU they would've called cops on you right there when you said you don't have money.

Then the guy hires thugs to help him redeem his winnings of $200? Where I live those guys would charge at least $100 each for help. Nobody would come to your aid and risk a 2 day stay in jail for a few bucks.

The guy that won the money is totally at fault,he couldn't control his gambling habit by playing from his win which I don't see as something bad but he failed to keep his tickets to show prove of how much game he played, this is his first mistake. After this he went ahead to bring thugs to fight a blind fight that he can't defend himself on what he is fighting for. Most time greed leads people to violence. The only mistake the game attendant did was not telling him how much he has played before leaving the gambling shop on the day he played all these wouldn't have happened because he was still with his receipt

How can we judge this case if we don't know what really happened? We have the word of the gambler versus the word of the shop attendant, but we don't have how to know who is telling the truth. The casino may be the cheater one which took advantage of the proposal made by the gambler of playing with the non-paid prize, or the gambler may be the cheater one, who is too addicted to control his expenses with his game session, losing control over his gambling activity and sacrificing his winnings without seeing it. Anyway, it's tricky the casino claims the man was owing 5$. It really sounds like a joke. As soon as the entire prize of the man was used by him, he should have been warned before they started counting debt on his account.

If am to blame anyone, then I will be blaming the shop attendant, from my own point of view he is the main person that caused everything.
The first mistake that the shop attendant make was allowing the gambler gamble more than the unsettled amount, the shop attendant should have informed the gambler that he has used up his money and shouldn't allow the gambler to keep on gambling.

Secondly the shop attendant should have informed the gambler that he has used up his money before leaving the shop that same day and shouldn't allow the gambler come on Monday before informing the gambler.

I will also have to blame the gambler and the shop owner, when thier are issues like this, they should learn to settle things easily without causing violence, instead of the two of them calling thugs, they should have called police right from beginning to settle the case.

In my own opinion: the gambler is really right, why didn't the shop attendant inform the gambler about the remaining balance before leaving on Saturday. From the way I see things, the shop attendant might be trying to keep the remaining money.

If he has been betting after Friday, well there are really chances that he has used up all his expected winnings but it’s quite odd since he didn’t even realize it. Does it mean he’s also drunk that time? Or this is just his own way of luring the lottery shop owner as he is used doing this in other places. But until there are no clear results of investigation coming from the police, I guess all we have right now are just assumptions that maybe true, maybe not.

While we do not know if the casino or the player is on the right on what originated this conflict, since it is impossible to know if the casino should pay the gambler some money as we do not know if he actually gambled all his money away with the information we have been given, after that both sides were on the wrong, hiring thugs to collect money is something the mafia would do, however since according to your explanation it was the gambler the first one to escalate the situation I would think he is the one deserving the harshest punishment.

Lol, Right now, it is indeed funny but i tell you it was no joke if you were there the day it happened, and i cant agree that the owner wasn't ready to pay the winner, I think the mistake of the owner was coming to the scene with thugs when he heard his boy wasn't beaten up by thugs, I believe he that out of anger, and without knowing how big the situation could escalate to, it was really a mess, he lost far more than the gambler won, his betting machine, some desktop computers were completely destroyed.

Shows how imperative it is for us to learn to control ourselves most especially when angry.

I guess both parties should be obliged fixing everything in place, and not just the gambler alone or the lottery shop owner or attendant. And I think the unclear scenario has even made it worst, that makes it totally hard for us to judge who is at fault and who is not. But maybe after a long process of investigation, the police will still end up with the truth and whatever the result is, he should be given lessons to learn and of course carry all the repair expenses if ever.

For me, it's not clear if this someone you know gambled all away the $198 on that Saturday morning or not, that's what confusing on the story. It could have not been escalated if it was being communicated clearly for both parties, I think both of them are in the wrong situation and I wish they pay the price of what they did on each other. Only at $198, they will end up killing each other, how cheap are those thugs.

The gambler is not new to this. He is aware of how much he spent betting on this game. It only needs less than $1 to be part of the game afaik and if he spent a lot I guess he really wanted to secure winning which in the end he instead loses.

How does this game is played by the way that he has been playing the whole day waiting every after 3 hours? This game will really waste your day and you'd get mad even if you'll win.  

It's funny IMO to think that the shop owner has called thugs to fight against the thugs of the winner. I'm sure that he has to pay for those thugs that he has called yet he can't pay the winnings of the winner.

Just simple things to think of.

I guess the owner doesn't really have the intention to pay the guy so he just made it a "quits" by reciprocating what the winner has acted upon. Well, so both of them took the inconvenience and bothered by what has happened.

All this for $198 (minus the amount he spent)? After making a decision to take all this to another level by bringing friends (thugs) all of them should be arrested for that, money won/lost lose meaning, all of them will face higher penalties and probably jail time.

He could try to call the police or look for some lawyers, but to bring friends to a fight is something different, it should be a last resort... and consequences are almost always worse than the initial loss. Now all of them are in greater problem than the sum in question for sure...

Violence shouldn't be the answer, as I said, it's something like the last thing to do if you are really out of options... I think these guys involved now have a bigger problem just because they're "hotheads"! So the bottom line should be simple, in case you get into some problem try to keep it cool, think about your options, and look for advice before you take some serious actions.

Sorry but a bit of correction, its not actually a betting site but a shop, that is a local betting shop in my locality/area,

You are right if the betting shop was one that send winnings to customers bank account, but the case is quite different here, like i said, the betting shop is a local one, they pay all customers winnings in cash, from what i know about that betting shop, if a gambler wins an amount below $50, they pay the winner immediately, but if the gambler wins an amount that is above that, they you ask him or her to come back to collect the money since i think they do not keep large amount in the shop for security reasons.

Well, you cant just put all the blame on the betting shop, some gamblers are very lousy on their own, very ignorant and careless, like i pointed out in my previous comment, the betting shop kept record of gamblers spending, but the gambler himself didn't keep any record, and when the betting shop showed him his record which shows he owes them, he refused to believe it was true.

The scenario is not that clear, either the gambler really consumed all his winnings but he’s just denial about it, or the lottery shop owner maybe thinking that he can take advantage with the gambler’s winnings that’s why he never presented any proofs, and instead push the gambler to present all his receipts which I think is quite suspicious. But I know at the end of the day, the police should have given them both proper sanctions because of some damages done around the shop.

Yes, he should have gone to the police first and let them handle it, and not the thugs that somehow also lead the chaos. But I believe, both parties have their own faults and instead of putting the case into more legal, they even chose to make it more worst seeing damages around. But maybe, the gambler alone knows that he’s a gambling addict and try to cheat the lottery owner. But things turn out not on his side so calling all his thugs maybe the first solution he could ever think.

Is it possible that someone that has won a bet would gamble and lost the whole money, gamble more and later owe the gambling site money? When the person has gambled with all his money and remain zero, the betting shop supposed to notify him that he has no money again. That fault is for the betting site.

A betting site that has no money again, he supposed to be able to credit the bank account of the person that won the money, but he did not. That fault is for the betting site too.

If someone gamble, he would have known when his money has finished if the betting shop do things appropriately, but they did it in a way the bettor did not know what he used the money for. That blame is also on the betting shop too.

It already sounds like the guy had really spent it all for the tickets and just told his gang he threw all the tickets away. The attendant of the gameshop has it all recorded.

Why does he even have some thugs supporting him perhaps this did happen before. In my area, gameshop owner sometimes threatens winners because he knows the participants of this kind of game are the less fortunate guy in the community.

Since the gambler didn't sign any paper (at the notary), the shop owner has not much of a proof that the gambler "borrowed" any of that money.
Truth being told, I've never understood why some shop owners agree to give people things on debt. It's a risk that can too easily turn against them. And this is a similar case.

So on the money side, I think that the shop owner has made a mistake he has to pay for.
Of course, on assault/body harm matter, both the gambler, the shop owner and both' thugs have the blame.

Hard to be the judge here, hehehe, but I will have to get all the facts straight first and see who is the guilty one, and how the bettor end up losing all his initial winnings and then owe the bestshop for at least $5?, that's crazy gambling addiction. He could have wait then or just used his own money first since he will be collecting his winnings then.

And what's scary is the thugs of both sides, Lol, it was really gang land fight fights and yeah, lots are doing to be damage around the area and another question is who is going to shoulder the expense of fixing the place, the betshop, the owner or the gambler.

Well, it is a true life story, everything i said is a fact, it only pains me that i didnt remember taking pictures or recording anything, i believe this is because it didnt occur to me that i will have to share this incident on this forum.

He did gamble his winnings away, and the attendant tried to show the prove to him but out of anger, he abruptly refused to believe or even listen, that was when some people there ask him to bring all the tickets so they could calculate it, it turned out he already threw most of it away.

It's unclear to me as how it went down to owing the owner with $5 if he didn't gambled with all of his winnings. Maybe the owner tried to cheat and that's why it ended up with that calculation. But if the owner has just enough cash, there will be no problem on it and the violence won't occur because the guy will just gamble and pay again no matter how many times he will bet again on that lottery shop. Well, both are at fault when they have resulted into violence wherein fact that they can just have a peaceful talk.

It's really hard to get the facts from fiction, perhaps the first question is how did he end up witht -$5 from winning $198? Do the shop has the copy of what he bet that time? They should so that it will have a proof. And why the owner allow him to do that in the first place? And why not pay him right away?

Not sure about bringing the thugs but it's possible that the person can do that, maybe he really has some influence in his place or the money to pay that thugs.

In any case, it was kind of messy, so the best thing that the owner can do is file charges to the guy.

I good portion of the blame goes to the shop owner, because he should have settled the amount to be deducted from the players previously won ticket and even at that why didn't the shop attendant notify the gambler when he has exhausted his winning balance own to him.

Going on to place bets for the players on credit was not something that is advisable, and the player involving thugs was also against the law, so I guess there will all face a civil disorder penalty.

does sound like it can happen in my local barangay where we always wait for the SWERTRES result. but sure we can always see people fight over $198 and the more it boils blood he learned he has to pay $5.

this is overblown that they brought their gangs to resolve a simple problem. when as a matter of fact the gameshop has records of how much was spent by the guy. even if he throw all his tickets, everything is the in the book.

Well personally I think i have experienced such scenerio before in my area and all this actually boils down to the person who won the lottery,  i think he is just an irresponsible gambler who lacks control over his gambling habit. The first mistake he did was to ask for the attendant to play more games for the money to be deducted the from his winning because the moment one gets lost in the act, you truly can't know how much you have used because at the time you will be confident that you still have money and may continue playing till you exhausted everything @#addiction.
But for the case of calling thugs and fighting , i think the punishment given to both parties was actually fair.

Did he really gambled his winning all away which he owes $5 instead?  This is what is to find out to finally how we could weigh the issue. He couldn't wait til Monday.

As for the gameshop also, why did he even allow the guy to use his winning? I'm also suspecting he is at fault that after 2 days the winner owes him instead.

If I were the winner I would surely keep track of what I owe the gambling house and keep some proofs to cover my ass in the event that the gambling house refuses to pay me. What transpired on that day is probably fueled by emotions and not rationality, because if the latter is present then no violence and serious incident would have happened. Also, it is in the best interest of the gambling house to keep a record of everything that is going on in the platform that involves money. It will also save them the hassle and trouble if they can show a receipt of what a person owes, how much do they owe a certain person, and on which dates/hours does this person used his winnings to bet on.

Well, the damage has been done, and I think both parties deserved those jail time if ever they incurred any.

Are we working on facts here? If the gambler didn't gamble his winnings away, then he's entitled to the money owed. If he did gamble the money away, I would've thought it'd be up to the store to prove he's done that, and not ask him for the receipts. However, obviously the customer shouldn't hired the thugs as you put it.

So, ultimately everyone involved broke the law at one point on that night, and they all probably deserve the penalties for that. I don't think it's too much of a problem that the shop allowed deducting of the winnings, ultimately a lot of casinos allow you to do that. It's the upholding of rightful winnings, and then escalating the situation to violence that's not right here.

Something That Happened In My Area Few Days Ago...

It was just the next street after mine, was there having an evening gist with a friend of mine..

Here is how it all started.

someone I know (not a friend of mine, not an enemy either), on a Friday evening at around 6pm played a lottery, it's a local lottery that announces winners every 3 hours.
For example - -
The first round starts 9 am and ends  at 12 pm,
Second round starts 12 pm and ends at 3 pm
Third round starts 3 pm and ends at 6 pm
Forth round starts 6 pm and ends at 9 pm
This is how the game goes on every single day from Monday to Sunday, that is the entire 7 days of the week.

So this guy played the lottery at around 6pm on Friday in a local game shop, at 9:15 pm, he went out to check the result of the game, luckily, he won, approximately $198.
He took his ticket to the game attendant where he played the game, the game attendant confirmed his win but unfortunately was out of cash that night, he could pay the guy at that moment, he called his boss~that is the real owner of the game shop, they told the guy to come and collect his winnings on Monday, the following week at 10am in the morning, and the guy said no problem and left.

On Saturday morning, he came to the game shop and asked the attendant if he could play the lottery and the payment deducted from his winning which they owe him, by Monday morning, whatever balance remaining from his winning, he would collect it, the attendant after confirming from his boss said yes, so the guy start playing the lottery again and the money deducted from his winning as agreed.

Long story short... By Monday morning at the agreed time which is 10am, the guy went to the game shop to collect the money remaining from his winning, after the calculation, he was told he's the one owing the game shop an approximate of $5.
First, it was amusing to him cus he started laughing, he actually thought they were joking until things become really serious, he refused to agree that he has gambled away all his winnings, not to talk of owing the game shop, he was then asked to bring all the tickets of the games he played from Saturday through Sunday, but unfortunately, he already threw most of the tickets away.

A serious fight later broke out, as the guy went out, hired some thugs to beat and to forcefully collect money from the shop attendant, the owner of the game shop who i believe was called on phone, came with some thugs as well, and the result was brutal, unfortunately, I could not get the opportunity-Infact, it didn't even occur to me to take pictures or try to record anything as we all had to run for our lives at a stage.

After about 30 minutes of fierce fighting, with many injured and properties destroyed, police landed and the thugs began to run away, at the end, they arrested the owner of the game shop, his attendant, some of the thugs the shop owner brought and some of the thugs the other guy brought, unfortunately, he that caused/started the fight escaped, some said he escaped even before the police came when he saw that things had already gotten out of control.
As of yesterday, I was told they the police are still looking for him.


This is an example of how a little issue can end up turning communities up side down.

In this case who do you think is at fault, who make the mistake?
Is it the game shop that allowed the gambler play from an unsettled winning?
Or is it the gambler who gambled too much and refused to believe that he has gambled all his unsettled winning away?

Let's discuss and you be the judge.