Bear market? Will NEVER HAPPEN because of tether printing.

STT

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Quote from: Argoo on January 03, 2021, 03:10:59 AM

Stable coins, including tether, are very easy to destroy. For this, it is enough for states to recognize illegal the provision of their national currency with other financial assets that do not belong to this state. This is already done by the Chinese government with its yuan, including digital. If this happens, then only stable coins of states will remain in circulation.

I dont know how it'll happen but sounds quite a viable scenario, anything that rests on the goodwill of politics and large government is not something I want to be standing under when theres any upset. We haven't seen the end of volatility, I dont believe it.

bbc.reporter

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Quote from: exstasie on January 02, 2021, 03:44:17 AM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on January 01, 2021, 11:09:56 PM

Does this imply that the CFTC can also charge Tether?

Yes. The CFTC hasn't expressed much interest in stablecoins but they did say this:

Quote from: bbc.reporter on January 01, 2021, 11:09:56 PM

In any case, you agreed that Tether is shady and you also know that there have been no verifiable audits, however, you say any speculations and if someone asks questions about Tether’s legality and backing is FUD?

This is ridiculous. I've explained in painful detail what is FUD and what isn't. Please stop beating a dead horse. Let it go.

Quote from: bbc.reporter on January 01, 2021, 11:09:56 PM

What would you say if Tether has been taken down?

I'd shrug. What would you say if Binance got taken down? Or if Coinbase got hacked? Or.....

I was asking if Tether was taken down and charges on it were proven, would this be the only time it will not be FUD for you? All the questions and speculations will be considered well founded?

In any case, similar to what you have told me, let us agree to disagree.

Argoo

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Quote from: Tyr808 on June 25, 2018, 07:37:19 PM

Ok, prove me wrong.

Here I state that a bear market, which is a prolongued (3 years +) correction of crypto prices, will never happen reason being the occasional bursts of tether issuing which is something nobody can police.

Add to this the fact greed never dies and stockmarket doesn't provide the gains todays young people demand: kids want adrenalin and lambos not fuckin retirement plan.

Correction of the rate will occur regularly, as investors need to fix their profits and because of this, any cryptocurrency periodically drops in price.
Stable coins, including tether, are very easy to destroy. For this, it is enough for states to recognize illegal the provision of their national currency with other financial assets that do not belong to this state. This is already done by the Chinese government with its yuan, including digital. If this happens, then only stable coins of states will remain in circulation.

exstasie

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on January 01, 2021, 11:09:56 PM

Does this imply that the CFTC can also charge Tether?

Yes. The CFTC hasn't expressed much interest in stablecoins but they did say this:

Quote from: bbc.reporter on January 01, 2021, 11:09:56 PM

In any case, you agreed that Tether is shady and you also know that there have been no verifiable audits, however, you say any speculations and if someone asks questions about Tether’s legality and backing is FUD?

This is ridiculous. I've explained in painful detail what is FUD and what isn't. Please stop beating a dead horse. Let it go.

Quote from: bbc.reporter on January 01, 2021, 11:09:56 PM

What would you say if Tether has been taken down?

I'd shrug. What would you say if Binance got taken down? Or if Coinbase got hacked? Or.....

bbc.reporter

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Quote from: exstasie on January 01, 2021, 03:37:57 AM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on December 31, 2020, 08:50:37 PM

Quote from: exstasie on December 31, 2020, 01:40:51 AM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on December 31, 2020, 12:17:38 AM

@exstasie. However, there are no more audits proving that Tether is backed by fiat reserves.

No stablecoin has ever been audited. The most we've seen is a balance sheet attestation from Circle for USDC, which Tether also did a few years ago with Friedman LLP.

No stablecoins has been audited does not automatically imply that Tether is 100% backed by $20 billion held in a bank.

I'm not saying it does. I was just responding to the tired argument that Tether hasn't been audited. Since no stablecoin has ever been audited, that's a moot point. An audit (or lack thereof) isn't inherently what makes a stablecoin safe or risky to hold.

Quote from: bbc.reporter on December 31, 2020, 08:50:37 PM

It might also be under the authority of the SEC because USDT is a dollar derivative. Derivatives are securities.

Derivatives are secondary securities, ~95% of which do not meet the SEC's definition of a security. Those fall under the jurisdiction of the CFTC. The ~5% of derivatives the SEC regulates are "security-based swaps" which include things like stock or bond-based swaps, or credit default swaps.

The SEC said this recently regarding fiat-backed stablecoins:

Quote from: bbc.reporter on December 31, 2020, 08:50:37 PM

You can call it FUD, however, this leaves more questions and speculations without an audit.

Whatever dude, I just don't see the point in spreading so much fear, uncertainty, and doubt.

Does this imply that the CFTC can also charge Tether?

In any case, you agreed that Tether is shady and you also know that there have been no verifiable audits, however, you say any speculations and if someone asks questions about Tether’s legality and backing is FUD? What would you say if Tether has been taken down?

Similar to you, I want this pump. However, as learners and participants of the cryptospace, we should ask questions. Do you think I have been researching about Tether because I want FUD? I hold bitcoins also, however, we should not be thoughtless larpers.

sana54210

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Quote from: exstasie on January 01, 2021, 03:37:57 AM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on December 31, 2020, 08:50:37 PM

You can call it FUD, however, this leaves more questions and speculations without an audit.

Whatever dude, I just don't see the point in spreading so much fear, uncertainty, and doubt.

I think you guys both could be wrong in a way. Bitcoin doesn't need to FUD or it doesn't need to be calm when it comes to Tether. I feel like the logical thing would be to use it as carefully as possible and not leave the whole future of bitcoin to it neither. Sure there is a huge deal with tether and bitcoin connection, I am not arguing against that, I also believe news about something actually helps or hurts bitcoin price more than the deal itself.

If I end up selling 1 billion dollars worth of bitcoin that might impact bitcoin price about 10% or maybe even 20% but if I write an article about how I sold all my 1 billion dollars worth of bitcoin and warn others to do the same, you will see, bitcoin could drop more than 50% very easily. That is the thing about tether that makes you guys both right and wrong, tether will not change too much no matter what, however news of it may.

thecodebear

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I never got what the deal is with all the tether conspiracy theories. Like, do you think they are just printing tether and handing it out to people for free?? haha. Come on get real.

I don't know exactly how tether generation works but no doubt they create more of it when people pass USD into tether. Now whether or not it is at any given time fully backed by dollars sitting in a bank somewhere is a question you can certainly ask, but the whole idea that tether props up bitcoin and is what causes price appreciation and entire bull runs is just, well, a conspiracy theory. Tether has nothing to do with bull markets or bear markets. It is just the largest of many stablecoins. Tether doesn't prop up bitcoin, and bitcoin wouldn't crash if something bad happened to tether, because the many other stablecoins would readily replace it (most large exchanges that use tether seem to have plenty of trading pairs with other stablecoins as well).

If a bear market doesn't happen in the next few years it will be because institutional investors are piling into bitcoin at a consistent rate for years to come, not because of conspiracy theories. lol

exstasie

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on December 31, 2020, 08:50:37 PM

Quote from: exstasie on December 31, 2020, 01:40:51 AM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on December 31, 2020, 12:17:38 AM

@exstasie. However, there are no more audits proving that Tether is backed by fiat reserves.

No stablecoin has ever been audited. The most we've seen is a balance sheet attestation from Circle for USDC, which Tether also did a few years ago with Friedman LLP.

No stablecoins has been audited does not automatically imply that Tether is 100% backed by $20 billion held in a bank.

I'm not saying it does. I was just responding to the tired argument that Tether hasn't been audited. Since no stablecoin has ever been audited, that's a moot point. An audit (or lack thereof) isn't inherently what makes a stablecoin safe or risky to hold.

Quote from: bbc.reporter on December 31, 2020, 08:50:37 PM

It might also be under the authority of the SEC because USDT is a dollar derivative. Derivatives are securities.

Derivatives are secondary securities, ~95% of which do not meet the SEC's definition of a security. Those fall under the jurisdiction of the CFTC. The ~5% of derivatives the SEC regulates are "security-based swaps" which include things like stock or bond-based swaps, or credit default swaps.

The SEC said this recently regarding fiat-backed stablecoins:

Quote from: bbc.reporter on December 31, 2020, 08:50:37 PM

You can call it FUD, however, this leaves more questions and speculations without an audit.

Whatever dude, I just don't see the point in spreading so much fear, uncertainty, and doubt.

bbc.reporter

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Quote from: exstasie on December 31, 2020, 01:40:51 AM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on December 31, 2020, 12:17:38 AM

@exstasie. However, there are no more audits proving that Tether is backed by fiat reserves.

No stablecoin has ever been audited. The most we've seen is a balance sheet attestation from Circle for USDC, which Tether also did a few years ago with Friedman LLP.

Circle's accounting firm can tell you why audits don't take place:

Quote from: bbc.reporter on December 31, 2020, 12:17:38 AM

Tether can also be charged of price manipulation if indeed billions of USDT have been printed without backing.

Now we're talking about two different things. If Tether was used to manipulate the price of BTC, that doesn't mean Tether manipulated the price of USDT. That's what matters regarding characterization of USDT as a security. If a company is manipulating the price of Bitcoin, that is within the purview of the CFTC and not the SEC, since Bitcoin is not a security.

As for the Tether printer, you're just repeating more FUD. Tongue

There is no evidence Tether issued USDT without backing. There is evidence that some issued USDT became unbacked after the Crypto Capital/Bitfinex fiasco. You may not think the distinction is important, but it is crucial to establishing whether Tether ever actually "printed" anything.

Losing control of dollars held in a bank account is a matter of third party trust gone bad. That's very different than intentionally printing unbacked tokens.

No stablecoins has been audited does not automatically imply that Tether is 100% backed by $20 billion held in a bank.

It might also be under the authority of the SEC because USDT is a dollar derivative. Derivatives are securities.

You can call it FUD, however, this leaves more questions and speculations without an audit.

Branko

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Quote from: BrewMaster on December 31, 2020, 10:45:05 AM

if OP's arguments had any reality to it then price should have never dropped in first place and the bear market that he claimed "will never happen" would have never happened. but we know now that it did happen and Tether never had any effects on bitcoin price.

It didn't happen because at that period USDT was used to get USD, not BTC, thats the whole point

BrewMaster

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There is trouble abrewing

those who bumped this old topic and are discussing the same stupid topic all over again are missing the fact that OP was already proven wrong 2 years ago when the bear market did happen and price of bitcoin fell from $20000 down to $3000 in the course of 2.5 years and during that time Tether printed a lot more tokens that they have ever printed specially compared to 2017 (the year bitcoin was rising).

if OP's arguments had any reality to it then price should have never dropped in first place and the bear market that he claimed "will never happen" would have never happened. but we know now that it did happen and Tether never had any effects on bitcoin price.

el kaka22

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www.Crypto.Games: Multiple coins, multiple games

People keep considering that USDT is the ONLY way people could buy bitcoin, why are you wrong this much? I understand that there is 20+ billion USDT in the market, but that doesn't mean all of them ar constantly used to buy bitcoin, plus even when they do, do you know how much real money are in it as well? I can tell you, billions of dollars worth of bitcoin all bought and stored already without ever being sold.

So long story short we are talking about something much better and easier here, the real money, and this USDT deal is obviously something that impacts bitcoin, but even if you end up printing 10 billion new USDT today, and make it buy bitcoin, that could return with all 10 billion of them sold back and get USD instead of USDT, we do not know how it will happen. Do not hope for something like this to change anything, USDT is just another stablecoin and not a big deal.

tmfp

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"Common rogue from Russia with a bare ass."

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Quote from: exstasie on December 31, 2020, 01:40:51 AM

Losing control of dollars held in a bank account is a matter of third party trust gone bad. That's very different than intentionally printing unbacked tokens.

You believe 16 billion USDT printed in 2020 is backed by fiat? They had trouble to back it 1:1 when market cap was 700m, but now suddenly found 20 billion somewhere?

exstasie

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on December 31, 2020, 12:17:38 AM

@exstasie. However, there are no more audits proving that Tether is backed by fiat reserves.

No stablecoin has ever been audited. The most we've seen is a balance sheet attestation from Circle for USDC, which Tether also did a few years ago with Friedman LLP.

Circle's accounting firm can tell you why audits don't take place:

Quote from: bbc.reporter on December 31, 2020, 12:17:38 AM

Tether can also be charged of price manipulation if indeed billions of USDT have been printed without backing.

Now we're talking about two different things. If Tether was used to manipulate the price of BTC, that doesn't mean Tether manipulated the price of USDT. That's what matters regarding characterization of USDT as a security. If a company is manipulating the price of Bitcoin, that is within the purview of the CFTC and not the SEC, since Bitcoin is not a security.

As for the Tether printer, you're just repeating more FUD. Tongue

There is no evidence Tether issued USDT without backing. There is evidence that some issued USDT became unbacked after the Crypto Capital/Bitfinex fiasco. You may not think the distinction is important, but it is crucial to establishing whether Tether ever actually "printed" anything.

Losing control of dollars held in a bank account is a matter of third party trust gone bad. That's very different than intentionally printing unbacked tokens.

bbc.reporter

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@ exstasie. However, there are no more audits proving that Tether is backed by fiat reserves. Tether can also be charged of price manipulation if indeed billions of USDT have been printed without backing.

Also add the FBI and the DHS for money laundering charges, tax evation, fraud and terrorist financing. The American government might throw the whole book on them hehehe.

exstasie

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Quote from: Branko on December 30, 2020, 05:18:25 AM

So what will happen if SEC goes after USDT similar way as they went after XRP?

Why would they? How does Tether qualify as a security under federal securities law, and how does USDT issuance qualify as an unregistered securities offering? I'm no lawyer, but I just don't see it. I just see a bunch of hand waving.

Ripple was a very different situation where the issuer maintained ownership of a significant majority of XRP and blatantly engaged in price manipulation.

A "senior advisor for digital assets" at the SEC recently commented on stablecoins. In her view, stablecoins backed by fiat reserves probably do not violate securities laws. https://tokenist.com/senior-advisor-for-sec-some-stablecoins-violate-securities-laws/

None of this means Tether is legally in the clear. I just think it won't be the SEC who comes after them. Fincen + the US Attorneys office seems more likely, if anything.

Branko

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Quote from: exstasie on December 30, 2020, 05:01:20 AM

Quote from: Branko on December 30, 2020, 04:24:12 AM

aaaand...look at year 2020 tether printing (from 4 to 20+ billions in a year) and everyone thinks
current bull market is "organic"

I remember accusations that 700m tether is fake and not covered by fiat back in 2017...how about 20 billion?

Question: What happens when people wire billions of dollars to crypto exchanges?
Answer: Bull markets.

Whether it's Tether, Coinbase, or Bitstamp receiving the wires shouldn't make a difference. During a bull market, all of them would be receiving ramped up inflows. We just don't get any blockchain data detailing how much USD Coinbase and Bitstamp are crediting to user accounts.

Also, Tether has become quite popular as a means for cross-border remittance: Millions in Crypto Is Crossing the Russia-China Border Daily. There, Tether Is King

Strong OTC demand for USDT (possibly from the remittance market) often pushes USDT above $1 on exchanges. This further reinforces dollar inflows to Tether, as depositors move to arbitrage the peg back to $1.

So what will happen if SEC goes after USDT similar way as they went after XRP?

exstasie

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Quote from: Branko on December 30, 2020, 04:24:12 AM

aaaand...look at year 2020 tether printing (from 4 to 20+ billions in a year) and everyone thinks
current bull market is "organic"

I remember accusations that 700m tether is fake and not covered by fiat back in 2017...how about 20 billion?

Question: What happens when people wire billions of dollars to crypto exchanges?
Answer: Bull markets.

Whether it's Tether, Coinbase, or Bitstamp receiving the wires shouldn't make a difference. During a bull market, all of them would be receiving ramped up inflows. We just don't get any blockchain data detailing how much USD Coinbase and Bitstamp are crediting to user accounts.

Also, Tether has become quite popular as a means for cross-border remittance: Millions in Crypto Is Crossing the Russia-China Border Daily. There, Tether Is King

Strong OTC demand for USDT (possibly from the remittance market) often pushes USDT above $1 on exchanges. This further reinforces dollar inflows to Tether, as depositors move to arbitrage the peg back to $1.

Branko

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aaaand...look at year 2020 tether printing (from 4 to 20+ billions in a year) and everyone thinks
current bull market is "organic"

I remember accusations that 700m tether is fake and not covered by fiat back in 2017...how about 20 billion?

Hueristic

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Doomed to see the future and unable to prevent it

Quote from: Yucco on July 03, 2018, 10:25:12 AM

Quote from: BillyBobZorton on June 26, 2018, 06:30:59 AM

Tether will sooner or later implode if these dollars aren't backed by real dollars.

Tether claims that their tokens are backed at 1:1 rates by real US dollars tho.... so there shouldn't be a problem when that money is printed because it's not really printed, it's just USD, and then you must go complain to the FED about printed USD too if you don't like that.

https://tether.to/announcement-transparency-update/

Official statement.

This is the usual manipulation. Nobody checked this. They do not allow auditors to their documents. Most likely this will be fraud. It is not known how long they will be able to avoid auditing.

I believe they allowed a law firm to do a one day audit to prove they had the funds to back that one days activity or some such thing. I doubt they will ever be able to allow their past moves to be viewed as thats a fast track to a deep dark cell. It's interesting to see the only US resident leaving, its a little too late for that I'd say. Lol

Yucco

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Quote from: BillyBobZorton on June 26, 2018, 06:30:59 AM

Tether will sooner or later implode if these dollars aren't backed by real dollars.

Tether claims that their tokens are backed at 1:1 rates by real US dollars tho.... so there shouldn't be a problem when that money is printed because it's not really printed, it's just USD, and then you must go complain to the FED about printed USD too if you don't like that.

https://tether.to/announcement-transparency-update/

Official statement.

This is the usual manipulation. Nobody checked this. They do not allow auditors to their documents. Most likely this will be fraud. It is not known how long they will be able to avoid auditing.

andohyeb

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There isn't any gurantee to say that bear market will end due to one or two reasons. The market can go up or down anytime and not even stock or currency market can say it won't experience a bear market.

Hueristic

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Doomed to see the future and unable to prevent it

6 months is an eternity in this space, it cannot be compared to traditional markets. Sometimes the premises I see in these arguments make my head hurt when they don't even get pointed out as being incorrect.

discobean

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If tether explodes btc will only go up as people exit from tether (if they get the chance)

Sowik

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Well I don;t know about you but the market we are in currently seems pretty bearish to me. I don''t know what you call half a year down movement from ATH.

bbc.reporter

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@gentlemand. The injection of liquidity was caused by the increase on the demand in USDT when bitcoin was collapsing, not for the intention of pumping bitcoin. Bitfinex needed to or the $1 = 1 USDT peg could not be maintained.

gentlemand

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Welt Am Draht

Quote from: Tyr808 on June 28, 2018, 11:42:44 PM

Quote from: puremage111 on June 28, 2018, 11:11:13 PM

Tether printing will always be there

Exactly, and this why there's gonna be a continuous compounding bullish pressure.

You've to tell us why apart from 'injecting liquidity' which has happened when the price was collapsing too.

By far the biggest threat to Tether is regulators going after them. That's looking borderline inevitable as the regulatory sphincter tightens. And no exchange will resist the order to delist it.

bbc.reporter

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Quote from: Tyr808 on June 28, 2018, 10:59:53 PM

I disagree. You focus on BS factors such as market sentiment.
I focus on the one and only unsindacable fundamental factor: liquidity.

Liquidity does not stop a bear market. It only makes it easier for everyone to sell their cryptocoins in a fairer price than if the market was illiquid. Try looking at Aeon's liquidity and compare to something like Ethereum. Ethereum is very liquid, Aeon is not but both of them will never escape the bear market.

budakjawa

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just calm the bitcoin can again experience bear market when there is good news that could trigger the increase of bitcoin price because for now bitcoin price is very difficult to ride if there is no good news available.

Tyr808

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06/19/11 17:51 Bought BTC 259684.77 for 0.0101

Quote from: puremage111 on June 28, 2018, 11:11:13 PM

Tether printing will always be there

Exactly, and this why there's gonna be a continuous compounding bullish pressure.

puremage111

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Tether printing will always be there, regardless bulls/bear imo
However the market goes on a bear mode is expected due to the huge rally in the past within a short period of time frame

The bearish movement is kinda slow compare to the past year bullish rally

Tyr808

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I disagree. You focus on BS factors such as market sentiment.
I focus on the one and only unsindacable fundamental factor: liquidity.

bbc.reporter

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Quote from: Tyr808 on June 27, 2018, 11:23:22 PM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on June 27, 2018, 08:05:40 PM

Quote from: Tyr808 on June 27, 2018, 01:10:43 AM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on June 26, 2018, 07:56:43 PM

Quote from: Tyr808 on June 25, 2018, 07:37:19 PM

Ok, prove me wrong.

You must understand that the demand in USDT is going up when the price of bitcoin is falling down. That makes the issuer need to issue more USDT to maintain the peg to $1 = 1 USDT.

In any case, USDT printing is not because someone is preparing to pump like what you presumed.

Not sure what you mean.. more or less demand, that's still liquidity which is eventually gonna be pumping up crypto prices.

Agreed. But it must also be understood why more Tether was issued. It was not for the intention of pumping bitcoin or Ethereum, but to maintain the $1 = 1 USDT peg.

Why you believe the reason behind the printing is important?
To me, the only relevant dynamic to state that there will be other bull runs, is knowing that new liquidity will be injected.

Knowing the reason behind it is important because the uninformed people in the cryptospace might see this as a sign to start hyping themselves into buying bitcoin. To prove that point, look at the price of bitcoin when the thread started and compare it to the price today. If they started buying because they thought it was good news, then they are losing money.

We might be entering a longterm bear market. Saying it will never happen is foolish.

boty

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★Bitvest.io★ Play Plinko or Invest!

just calm it will happen that you need just be more patient because the patience you have it will produce very good result for you, do not easy to panic one day bitcoin price will go back up again.

Tyr808

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on June 27, 2018, 08:05:40 PM

Quote from: Tyr808 on June 27, 2018, 01:10:43 AM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on June 26, 2018, 07:56:43 PM

Quote from: Tyr808 on June 25, 2018, 07:37:19 PM

Ok, prove me wrong.

You must understand that the demand in USDT is going up when the price of bitcoin is falling down. That makes the issuer need to issue more USDT to maintain the peg to $1 = 1 USDT.

In any case, USDT printing is not because someone is preparing to pump like what you presumed.

Not sure what you mean.. more or less demand, that's still liquidity which is eventually gonna be pumping up crypto prices.

Agreed. But it must also be understood why more Tether was issued. It was not for the intention of pumping bitcoin or Ethereum, but to maintain the $1 = 1 USDT peg.

Why you believe the reason behind the printing is important?
To me, the only relevant dynamic to state that there will be other bull runs, is knowing that new liquidity will be injected.

Tyr808

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Quote from: fabiorem on June 27, 2018, 09:03:00 PM

Quote from: Tyr808 on June 27, 2018, 01:12:01 AM

Lol now tether is a conspiracy.

Now? It always was.

But the State printing fiat money (which is backed by nothing) and inflating the price of everything was never a conspiracy. Its pretty real, and nobody complains about it.

The state defends that right with violence and wars and might is right.

Anyway this thread isn't about politics or conspiracies, tether printing is very real and it is why there will be other bull runs which will push the price higher than the last one.

fabiorem

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Quote from: Tyr808 on June 27, 2018, 01:12:01 AM

Lol now tether is a conspiracy.

Now? It always was.

But the State printing fiat money (which is backed by nothing) and inflating the price of everything was never a conspiracy. Its pretty real, and nobody complains about it.

bbc.reporter

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Quote from: Tyr808 on June 27, 2018, 01:10:43 AM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on June 26, 2018, 07:56:43 PM

Quote from: Tyr808 on June 25, 2018, 07:37:19 PM

Ok, prove me wrong.

You must understand that the demand in USDT is going up when the price of bitcoin is falling down. That makes the issuer need to issue more USDT to maintain the peg to $1 = 1 USDT.

In any case, USDT printing is not because someone is preparing to pump like what you presumed.

Not sure what you mean.. more or less demand, that's still liquidity which is eventually gonna be pumping up crypto prices.

Agreed. But it must also be understood why more Tether was issued. It was not for the intention of pumping bitcoin or Ethereum, but to maintain the $1 = 1 USDT peg.

magneto

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Aren't we already in a bear market, though? You're saying that 6 months is not enough time to consider this to be a bear market, but I think it is enough time. There is no prospect of seeing a recovery or a sudden shift in the market sentiment any time soon, I don't think.

If Tether is running fractional reserve (which is possible), then sooner or later it'll implode as BillyBobZorton said, and lose its value on the open market and implode.

I don't get why because of Tether, bitcoin can't have a bear market. By your logic, the crash from $20k to $6k should have never happened because Tether dollars were being printed all the time to keep prices high? Perhaps I just don't understand what your point is.

exstasie

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Quote from: Tyr808 on June 27, 2018, 01:15:33 AM

Quote from: exstasie on June 26, 2018, 04:13:17 PM

I think the burden is on you to prove that "Tether printing" is important. Even the University of Texas report pointed to a very low level of statistical relevance. Tether issuance may not be random, but nobody has proven that it has a meaningful effect on price:

Quote

The authors suggest the cryptocurrency exchange Bitfinex buys bitcoin with another cryptocurrency -- tether -- to push up Bitcoin prices. How much? Four basis points per 100 bitcoin. With Bitcoin at $10,000, for example, that means Bitfinex spends $1 million to push the price up to $10,004.

It doesn't need to be proven. It's just pure logic applied to economics. You have an injection of capital in the books and this inflates crypto prices.
Also as you mention most of the existing real capital in the books is due to wash trading so a real injection (such as tether) would have an even magnified amplitude of effect.

Did you read the link above? "Tether injections" are characterized by the opposite of a "magnified amplitude of effect."

Yes, it's purely logical that (all else equal) an injection of capital into static supply causes price to increase. But that's no different than buyers depositing to Bitstamp or Coinbase......or Tether. I see no indication that Tether issuance is significant in any way. They are only barely noticeable from a statistical standpoint. I also see no proof they are illegitimate (not backed by real USD) or manipulative.

Your claim looks weak when it's pointed out how small of an effect Tether has. Even if they were trying to prop the market up, they are only a tiny drop in the bucket:

Quote from: BillyBobZorton on June 27, 2018, 11:00:27 AM

If the process was transparent and the bank accounts were publicly auditable it would be less of an uncertainty but then again, providing such a service it's very difficult and you are pretty much forced to use off-shore accounts in private banking, it's just never going to be solved unless it gets audited by a bunch of different parties.

I mean, it's not like we get to see an audit of Coinbase's bank accounts either. They get their share of people shouting "insolvency" too. Wink

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Quote from: Tyr808 on June 27, 2018, 01:12:01 AM

Quote from: fabiorem on June 26, 2018, 04:28:36 PM

I would love to agree to you, but I cannot.

Tether printing is just a meme, invented by conspiracy theorists on the level of r0ach.

It would be so good to be real. If it was, we would be at one million already, and able to eradicate poverty from Earth.

Unfortunatelly, it is not. Tether printing is just material for FUD, to drive the price down.

What strikes me in this case is the hipocrisy: everybody FUD over tether printing, but nobody FUD over fiat printing. If people where to FUD over fiat printing, in the same way they FUD over tether printing, bitcoin would have a higher price now.

About bear markets: 2013-2015 was a bear market, and didnt last 3 years. Bitcoin moves faster than the stock market, just do some research.

Lol now tether is a conspiracy.

It's just what it is, a lot of people are going to think forever that Tether doesn't have 1:1 resources at all times, and at least ins ome periods in time they are printing these Tether tokens without having the actual US dollar reserves.

If the process was transparent and the bank accounts were publicly auditable it would be less of an uncertainty but then again, providing such a service it's very difficult and you are pretty much forced to use off-shore accounts in private banking, it's just never going to be solved unless it gets audited by a bunch of different parties.

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Quote from: exstasie on June 26, 2018, 04:13:17 PM

Quote from: Tyr808 on June 25, 2018, 07:37:19 PM

Ok, prove me wrong.

I think the burden is on you to prove that "Tether printing" is important. Even the University of Texas report pointed to a very low level of statistical relevance. Tether issuance may not be random, but nobody has proven that it has a meaningful effect on price:

Quote from: Tyr808 on June 25, 2018, 07:37:19 PM

Here I state that a bear market, which is a prolongued (3 years +) correction of crypto prices, will never happen reason being the occasional bursts of tether issuing which is something nobody can police.

Any number of exchanges/brokers could be engaging in price manipulation. I believe the Chinese exchanges (particularly Okcoin.cn, Okcoin.com futures and Huobi) heavily manipulated price (or attempted to) for years. This is true of regulated markets as well.

It doesn't need to be proven. It's just pure logic applied to economics. You have an injection of capital in the books and this inflates crypto prices.
Also as you mention most of the existing real capital in the books is due to wash trading so a real injection (such as tether) would have an even magnified amplitude of effect.

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Quote from: fabiorem on June 26, 2018, 04:28:36 PM

I would love to agree to you, but I cannot.

Tether printing is just a meme, invented by conspiracy theorists on the level of r0ach.

It would be so good to be real. If it was, we would be at one million already, and able to eradicate poverty from Earth.

Unfortunatelly, it is not. Tether printing is just material for FUD, to drive the price down.

What strikes me in this case is the hipocrisy: everybody FUD over tether printing, but nobody FUD over fiat printing. If people where to FUD over fiat printing, in the same way they FUD over tether printing, bitcoin would have a higher price now.

About bear markets: 2013-2015 was a bear market, and didnt last 3 years. Bitcoin moves faster than the stock market, just do some research.

Lol now tether is a conspiracy.

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on June 26, 2018, 07:56:43 PM

Quote from: Tyr808 on June 25, 2018, 07:37:19 PM

Ok, prove me wrong.

You must understand that the demand in USDT is going up when the price of bitcoin is falling down. That makes the issuer need to issue more USDT to maintain the peg to $1 = 1 USDT.

In any case, USDT printing is not because someone is preparing to pump like what you presumed.

Not sure what you mean.. more or less demand, that's still liquidity which is eventually gonna be pumping up crypto prices.

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Quote from: Herbert2020 on June 27, 2018, 12:21:49 AM

your problem is that you took a glance at a bitcoin chart and then started this topic. you are basically saying that bitcoin had NO bear markets so far in the past 9 years although you think you are saying it had 1 (2014).

if you look closely you will see 2 things:
1. this bear market that you glanced lasted 1 year from 2014-1 to 2015-1 and then the accumulation was from then till about Sep. then the rally aka bull market started.
2. there has been many other bear markets in bitcoin, each lasting a lot less than 2014 one and some of them were much bigger than it.

Tether has been only recently introduced and now that we have it there's gonna be continuous sudden injections of fresh liquidity in cryptos.
During the past bear runs there was no tether.

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your problem is that you took a glance at a bitcoin chart and then started this topic. you are basically saying that bitcoin had NO bear markets so far in the past 9 years although you think you are saying it had 1 (2014).

if you look closely you will see 2 things:
1. this bear market that you glanced lasted 1 year from 2014-1 to 2015-1 and then the accumulation was from then till about Sep. then the rally aka bull market started.
2. there has been many other bear markets in bitcoin, each lasting a lot less than 2014 one and some of them were much bigger than it.

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Quote from: Tyr808 on June 25, 2018, 07:37:19 PM

Ok, prove me wrong.

You must understand that the demand in USDT is going up when the price of bitcoin is falling down. That makes the issuer need to issue more USDT to maintain the peg to $1 = 1 USDT.

In any case, USDT printing is not because someone is preparing to pump like what you presumed.

fabiorem

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I would love to agree to you, but I cannot.

Tether printing is just a meme, invented by conspiracy theorists on the level of r0ach.

It would be so good to be real. If it was, we would be at one million already, and able to eradicate poverty from Earth.

Unfortunatelly, it is not. Tether printing is just material for FUD, to drive the price down.

What strikes me in this case is the hipocrisy: everybody FUD over tether printing, but nobody FUD over fiat printing. If people where to FUD over fiat printing, in the same way they FUD over tether printing, bitcoin would have a higher price now.

About bear markets: 2013-2015 was a bear market, and didnt last 3 years. Bitcoin moves faster than the stock market, just do some research.

BitHodler

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Tether has become a real thing here. It's getting far more credits than it's worth.

There is no point in speculating whether or not Tethers are being used to pump the market. If it did, it would be quite pathetic actually, because it means that this whole market is one inflated bubble not even worth half its price.

Try to find others things to focus on. Tether will eventually lose importance due to how exchanges becoming compliant are able to add actual fiat pairs instead of tokens consisting of nothingness.

Just follow exchanges trading actual fiat pairs and ignore the rest. I always found Bitstamp and GDAX to be the better exchanges to follow. Even Gemini can be seen as a worthy one to follow. Future looks bright.

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Quote from: Tyr808 on June 25, 2018, 07:37:19 PM

Ok, prove me wrong.

I think the burden is on you to prove that "Tether printing" is important. Even the University of Texas report pointed to a very low level of statistical relevance. Tether issuance may not be random, but nobody has proven that it has a meaningful effect on price:

Quote from: Tyr808 on June 25, 2018, 07:37:19 PM

Here I state that a bear market, which is a prolongued (3 years +) correction of crypto prices, will never happen reason being the occasional bursts of tether issuing which is something nobody can police.

Any number of exchanges/brokers could be engaging in price manipulation. I believe the Chinese exchanges (particularly Okcoin.cn, Okcoin.com futures and Huobi) heavily manipulated price (or attempted to) for years. This is true of regulated markets as well.

cellard

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Quote from: gentlemand on June 26, 2018, 02:10:40 PM

The Tether issuances since the arse fell out of the market have had little to no effect on the direction of things. They've been few and far between but whatever theory people had about pumping has been pooed on.

It's possible all that Tether was rolled out to pump to fill the hole in BFX's accounts. Now they've made it all back with fees and just in time to roll out their 1-1 announcement. No more need to pump if that was the reason.

And has it not occurred to people that more tether is needed when more people want it to get out of Bitcoin or alts?

Good theory, but a proper audition would be able to find that they generated non 1:1 tethers at some point in time? Or they would be able to get away with it because the tether generation didn't leave any logs? Are they supposed to keep logs of tether printing in case authorities asks? what would authorities do if they ask for tether generation logs and said logs do not exists? These questions will some day be answered and if everything doesn't add up, we may have a tethering.

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Welt Am Draht

The Tether issuances since the arse fell out of the market have had little to no effect on the direction of things. They've been few and far between but whatever theory people had about pumping has been pooed on.

It's possible all that Tether was rolled out to pump to fill the hole in BFX's accounts. Now they've made it all back with fees and just in time to roll out their 1-1 announcement. No more need to pump if that was the reason.

And has it not occurred to people that more tether is needed when more people want it to get out of Bitcoin or alts?

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Quote from: berrygood on June 26, 2018, 10:42:45 AM

Tether may be printed but those printed tether are not necessarily spent but I make such inference that coins are bottoming now rather than end of bear market.

I don't understand the value of this currency. How can you trust such an asset? The main reason for the popularity of the cryptocurrency is that the uncontrolled printing of Fiat government and Fiat currencies do not have an economically reasonable value. Maybe bitcoin is now suffering from the fact that a lot of money is withdrawn through shitcoins.

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Quote from: Tyr808 on June 25, 2018, 07:37:19 PM

Ok, prove me wrong.

Here I state that a bear market, which is a prolongued (3 years +) correction of crypto prices, will never happen reason being the occasional bursts of tether issuing which is something nobody can police.

Add to this the fact greed never dies and stockmarket doesn't provide the gains todays young people demand: kids want adrenalin and lambos not fuckin retirement plan.

Who is saying we will have a 3 year bear market? Or that bear markets last that long?
In another post you said that 6 months isn't enough for a bear market. I disagree. This has nothing to do with time. It's all about the charts, price, trend and trend reversals. Time is not of any significance here.
Regarding Tether, I don't care, because it's influence isn't that big as some here think it is.

berrygood

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Tether may be printed but those printed tether are not necessarily spent but I make such inference that coins are bottoming now rather than end of bear market.

webtricks

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Quote from: Tyr808 on June 25, 2018, 07:37:19 PM

Ok, prove me wrong.

Here I state that a bear market, which is a prolongued (3 years +) correction of crypto prices, will never happen reason being the occasional bursts of tether issuing which is something nobody can police.

Add to this the fact greed never dies and stockmarket doesn't provide the gains todays young people demand: kids want adrenalin and lambos not fuckin retirement plan.

Believe me printing of Tether has nothing to do with bullish market. No doubt, whenever new Tethers come into circulation, prices of BTC and other alts increase but it is not the sole reason of BTC rise. Bitcoin even see bullish trends when other news and happenings come. Linking bullish trend solely to TETHER is wrong judgement.

Tyr808

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What could ever stop tether emission?

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Quote from: BillyBobZorton on June 26, 2018, 06:30:59 AM

Tether claims that their tokens are backed at 1:1 rates by real US dollars tho.... so there shouldn't be a problem when that money is printed because it's not really printed, it's just USD, and then you must go complain to the FED about printed USD too if you don't like that.

https://tether.to/announcement-transparency-update/

Official statement.

That is official statement but not a proved one from any of the established audit firm so we can't believe it. It is just like a seller providing personal guarantee to its product. Grin

If tether will ever get exposed which is quite unlikely unless some insider comes out and expose them, than there will be so much blood on the street many people who might have tether at that time might even commit suicide. I don't have deep analysis till now about true USD but it seems promising alternative to USDT.

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Tether will sooner or later implode if these dollars aren't backed by real dollars.

Tether claims that their tokens are backed at 1:1 rates by real US dollars tho.... so there shouldn't be a problem when that money is printed because it's not really printed, it's just USD, and then you must go complain to the FED about printed USD too if you don't like that.

https://tether.to/announcement-transparency-update/

Official statement.

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6 months isn't enough to call it a bear market.

Herbert2020

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Quote from: Tyr808 on June 25, 2018, 07:37:19 PM

a bear market, which is a prolongued (3 years +) correction of crypto prices,

there is no time frame for bear market. that is you assumption that it should last 3 years. and a bear market has nothing to do with a correction. a correction is a drop that you can predict the bottom of and it is much shorter than a bear market which is longer and you can not predict the bottom of it.

Quote from: Tyr808 on June 25, 2018, 07:37:19 PM

a bear market will never happen

it has happened, it is happening right now and it will happen in the future like this again and again.

Tyr808

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Ok, prove me wrong.

Here I state that a bear market, which is a prolongued (3 years +) correction of crypto prices, will never happen reason being the occasional bursts of tether issuing which is something nobody can police.

Add to this the fact greed never dies and stockmarket doesn't provide the gains todays young people demand: kids want adrenalin and lambos not fuckin retirement plan.

Topic: Bear market? Will NEVER HAPPEN because of tether printing. (Read 818 times)