Believing in impossible things – and COVID19

BADecker

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Quote from: jrrsparkles on March 16, 2021, 12:59:03 AM

Quote from: Natsuu on March 14, 2021, 06:22:38 AM

Quote from: jrrsparkles on March 13, 2021, 10:54:38 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Vaccination is hands down good weapon to fight against coronavirus SARS-CoV-2 but I think the real breakthrough will be done with invention of immediate-effect-pharmaceutical-drugs which could take down virus inside the body. Even vaccinated people can carry the disease, not dangerous for them but critical for surrounding.

Basically one who are affected by a virus once should to fall sick when it affects them for the second time but this is not happening with covid, people are diagnosed to have covid new strains after they recovered months ago so vaccine is not actually a weapon, just a substitute which is going ineffective by time passes.

Vaccine actually works with the new variants, study shows, and it is pretty impressive in that way.

Then why we need to lockdown and restrictions, just ask every pharma company to produce the vaccines and give it to everyone in the world to make a covid free world,. right?

Right! The virus is a lie in so many ways. If there are more deaths in the world from Covid, there are approximately the same number of fewer deaths from influenza and pneumonia. Vaccines do only two things:
1. Make more money for Big Pharma;
2. Make immune systems weaker so that people will get sick more often, and think they need another vaccination.

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jrrsparkles

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Quote from: Natsuu on March 14, 2021, 06:22:38 AM

Quote from: jrrsparkles on March 13, 2021, 10:54:38 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Vaccination is hands down good weapon to fight against coronavirus SARS-CoV-2 but I think the real breakthrough will be done with invention of immediate-effect-pharmaceutical-drugs which could take down virus inside the body. Even vaccinated people can carry the disease, not dangerous for them but critical for surrounding.

Basically one who are affected by a virus once should to fall sick when it affects them for the second time but this is not happening with covid, people are diagnosed to have covid new strains after they recovered months ago so vaccine is not actually a weapon, just a substitute which is going ineffective by time passes.

Vaccine actually works with the new variants, study shows, and it is pretty impressive in that way.

Then why we need to lockdown and restrictions, just ask every pharma company to produce the vaccines and give it to everyone in the world to make a covid free world,. right?

BADecker

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^^^ Seems like only the USA and the UK and Canada still believe the vaccine lie.

What about China and Russia? The people there have to toe the party line, or they just might wake up dead in the middle of the night.

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boyptc

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Quote from: Natsuu on March 14, 2021, 06:22:38 AM

Indeed, The vaccines are one of the most effective solution we have for now as people are too obsess with the ideas of facemask not working, or freedom, etc.

It's still the safety protocols about maintaining good hygiene and body. There's something that worries many lately.

--> https://edition.cnn.com/2021/03/15/europe/italy-lockdown-europe-coronavirus-monday-scli-intl/index.html
--> https://www.euronews.com/2021/03/13/covid-vaccines-astrazeneca-announces-further-cuts-in-deliveries-to-eu

BADecker

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Vaccination is hands down good weapon to fight against coronavirus SARS-CoV-2 but I think the real breakthrough will be done with invention of immediate-effect-pharmaceutical-drugs which could take down virus inside the body. Even vaccinated people can carry the disease, not dangerous for them but critical for surrounding.

It's easy to see that there is a vaccine. You could visit your doctor and have him show it to you. But you have to trust that your doctor knows what he/she is talking about when they tell you that there is a SARS-CoV-2. Why? Because you can't see it, and so far nobody has separated it out completely from other tissue materials so that they could identify that it exists. What they are suggesting that SARS-CoV-2 is, might be anything from exosomes to pieces of peoples' own cells.

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Natsuu

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Quote from: jrrsparkles on March 13, 2021, 10:54:38 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Vaccination is hands down good weapon to fight against coronavirus SARS-CoV-2 but I think the real breakthrough will be done with invention of immediate-effect-pharmaceutical-drugs which could take down virus inside the body. Even vaccinated people can carry the disease, not dangerous for them but critical for surrounding.

Basically one who are affected by a virus once should to fall sick when it affects them for the second time but this is not happening with covid, people are diagnosed to have covid new strains after they recovered months ago so vaccine is not actually a weapon, just a substitute which is going ineffective by time passes.

Vaccine actually works with the new variants, study shows, and it is pretty impressive in that way.

Quote from: Vatimins on March 13, 2021, 11:12:34 AM

Although this kind of topic has been talked about dozens of times, I still do believe that it is important to still talk about it jo matter how annoyingly repeating the conversation flows are. Because eventually, these kind of discussions can end up in finding probable solutions to problems. And as for the vaccines, there are countless reasons why everyone should take it. Hence, I am more leaned over on the vaccination plans. This is because these vaccines are what the world badly needs as soon as possible. Anyways, that's just me. Each to his own.

Indeed, The vaccines are one of the most effective solution we have for now as people are too obsess with the ideas of facemask not working, or freedom, etc.

CryptocurencyKing

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I don't know if we would say the present vaccination drug and plan is the best that has happened to man following the current situation but, it's definitely all we've got and we have to work with it, not like I like it but, we just have to. The herd immunity sounds like a nice idea, the only question the doubt is about the drug for vaccination itself.
Is it really safe and would stand the test of time without any side effects? This is where my own problem lies.

Quote from: Vatimins on March 13, 2021, 11:12:34 AM

Although this kind of topic has been talked about dozens of times, I still do believe that it is important to still talk about it jo matter how annoyingly repeating the conversation flows are. Because eventually, these kind of discussions can end up in finding probable solutions to problems.

I agree with you on this, the topic has been talked on a lot in different contest and perspective but then, a permanent solution is yet to be discovered so, with the knowledge of the fact that there are health practitioners in our mist, our discussion is sure not to end in just this forum.

Vatimins

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Although this kind of topic has been talked about dozens of times, I still do believe that it is important to still talk about it jo matter how annoyingly repeating the conversation flows are. Because eventually, these kind of discussions can end up in finding probable solutions to problems. And as for the vaccines, there are countless reasons why everyone should take it. Hence, I am more leaned over on the vaccination plans. This is because these vaccines are what the world badly needs as soon as possible. Anyways, that's just me. Each to his own.

jrrsparkles

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Vaccination is hands down good weapon to fight against coronavirus SARS-CoV-2 but I think the real breakthrough will be done with invention of immediate-effect-pharmaceutical-drugs which could take down virus inside the body. Even vaccinated people can carry the disease, not dangerous for them but critical for surrounding.

Basically one who are affected by a virus once should to fall sick when it affects them for the second time but this is not happening with covid, people are diagnosed to have covid new strains after they recovered months ago so vaccine is not actually a weapon, just a substitute which is going ineffective by time passes.

Sak Karepe

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yeah, believe it or not believe that Covid exists.! but most of the media in any country is too exaggerating, as well as scaring the people in that class. and just try if covid is equated with the accidents that occur accidents, for example, the daily death rate, but the media always informs that everything that happens about human deaths is considered to have died due to Covid. The same is the case with many viruses that were once considered deadly such as dengue fever, flu, or others. Indirectly or like it or not we have to want to live this life side by side with all viruses. it's just that we also have to be vigilant, have to be more careful. and I am here praying for all of you or your family that you will be fine and always healthy.

BADecker

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Quote from: Poker Player on March 13, 2021, 03:06:32 AM

Quote from: Jet Cash on March 12, 2021, 11:31:46 AM

There is a $250,000+ reward for anyone who can isolate the covid virus for testing and vaccine development purposes. So far nobody has claimed it. This means that all of the testing is done on a mix of virus and RNA elements, and not on the virus itself. Mother Nature (or God if you prefer) is the only one that has thousands of years of experience, and works on protecting us from these evolving viral threats. Her herd immunity works, because the hers is still here and expanding.

Can you back up what you say with links? Here you have some:

Fact check: The virus that causes COVID-19 has been isolated, and is the basis for the vaccines currently in development

SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, was isolated in the laboratory and is available for research by the scientific and medical community.

Isolation and characterization of SARS-CoV-2 from the first US COVID-19 patient

Virus isolation isn't culturing. Rather, it is separating the virus from everything else... isolating it. The reports say the word "isolation," but they don't speak to any processes that show how or that the isolation was really performed.

In addition, they don't really stand up to the grandfather of virus isolation processes, Koch's Postulates.

When modern (and not so modern) medicine suggests the Koch's Postulates are holding medicine back, they are suggesting that we move into guess-work diagnosing. And that seems to be what is happening when we cal Covid or SARS-CoV-2 a virus.

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Poker Player

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Quote from: Jet Cash on March 12, 2021, 11:31:46 AM

There is a $250,000+ reward for anyone who can isolate the covid virus for testing and vaccine development purposes. So far nobody has claimed it. This means that all of the testing is done on a mix of virus and RNA elements, and not on the virus itself. Mother Nature (or God if you prefer) is the only one that has thousands of years of experience, and works on protecting us from these evolving viral threats. Her herd immunity works, because the hers is still here and expanding.

Can you back up what you say with links? Here you have some:

Fact check: The virus that causes COVID-19 has been isolated, and is the basis for the vaccines currently in development

SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, was isolated in the laboratory and is available for research by the scientific and medical community.

Isolation and characterization of SARS-CoV-2 from the first US COVID-19 patient

BADecker

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^^^ You're right. Consider heart disease that kills over 600,000 people a year in the US. Dr. Linus Pauling found out years ago that heart disease is simply an elusive form of scurvy. You cure scurvy with vitamin C. Dr Pauling found that 5 grams of V-C + 2 grams of the amino acid L-lysine per day, cured people of heart disease. But people like believing their own personal doctor more... even if it kills them.

Search https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=linus+pauling+heart+disease&ia=web.

Linus Pauling's Therapy® - http://www.paulingtherapy.com/.

Heart Disease Vitamin C and Linus Pauling by Jeffrey Dach MD - https://jeffreydachmd.com/heart-disease-vitamin-c-and-linus-pauling2/.

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Natsuu

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Quote from: Mauser on March 09, 2021, 09:06:11 AM

This was interesting to read, but why I don't see is a real solution to covid 19. Sure we could not take the way of herd immunities and give vaccines to a large group of people. What should we do instead? Somehow there must be a solution to this pandemic. We all have been in lock down to long and really hope for our normal life's again. I am afraid that without a vaccine we are going to be stuck with wearing a mask in public.

Solution is there being spread, but people are still debating whether it is true or not when other nation already achieved zero covid cases with this kind of sulution (pre-vaccine). And now vaccine arrives, still people are questioning this new solution while others still believed that covid is not real. So yeah, the solution is there but the citizen is not ready to accept it as they not see it fit to their daily lives, and they are not ready to adjust to new protocols for this solution to be effective.

BADecker

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^^^ The interesting thing is, that all of the DNA and RNA strands of the so-called Covid-19/SARS-CoV-2 virus, are also strands of DNA/RNA that can be found in all people... especially in Chromosome 8.

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Jet Cash

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There is a $250,000+ reward for anyone who can isolate the covid virus for testing and vaccine development purposes. So far nobody has claimed it. This means that all of the testing is done on a mix of virus and RNA elements, and not on the virus itself. Mother Nature (or God if you prefer) is the only one that has thousands of years of experience, and works on protecting us from these evolving viral threats. Her herd immunity works, because the hers is still here and expanding.

MUHAMMAD NUR AMANAH

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It is of interest to discuss whether the facts of the corona virus may now be a terrifying pandemic all over the world, and until now there is no known cure and vaccine whether it is effective or not, and until when will this pandemic continue to plague us, whether we will continue to live in a lingering fear and hopefully find a cure for the corona virus And the economics of daily elective education even a lifestyle could be normal again hopefully come true and not a beautiful dream in fear

Cnut237

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Quote from: Poker Player on March 10, 2021, 06:02:14 AM

I've merited your post, which I've done not just for this post but in general for your various post regarding COVID19. I have done so even though I disagree, which is unusual. I like that, in general it is possible to have discussions with you. With other people I have ended up putting them on ignore because of trolling or being disrespectful.

Thanks, and this is definitely the correct approach with merit - one that too few people take. The forum (and the merit system) would be better if everyone followed your example.
I've also merited posts I disagree with in the past because I appreciate the discussion and well-argued points... but it's certainly a difficult thing to do, and one that I still find to be a huge challenge. It's often easier to merit people who agree with you even if their posts are vacuous or insubstantial, and more difficult to merit people who are arguing well but from the opposing viewpoint.

Quote from: Poker Player on March 10, 2021, 06:02:14 AM

Regarding the mortality increase, I don't think this is a simple 2+2 thing, and, furthermore, it also doesn't explain why there was a huge increase in mortality in April that then subsided the rest of the year.

Agree to an extent, it's not 2+2, no, societies are messy and there are far too many potentially contributing factors to explain things perfectly. But anecdotally, and from a UK perspective, the drop after April coincides (with a bit of a delay) with the implementation of what was a quite strict initial lockdown, including school closures.

Also I'd add that the way that virus infections progress exponentially is a factor - this can lead to quite pronounced spikes on a linear-scale chart... so for example the excess deaths in later parts of the year following a lockdown could be much lower because we are starting from a much lower base point.

jrrsparkles

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Quote from: Cnut237 on March 10, 2021, 05:10:59 AM

Quote from: jrrsparkles on March 10, 2021, 03:57:06 AM

still we don't find axact way to stop the spreading

Vaccination.

Vaccines are still yet to be confirmed about their efficacy because the demonstrated efficacy was over 90% for most of the vaccines but they maybe completely ineffective with new strain of the covid 19. Even though we took the dosages still asked to follow the social distancing and wearing mask which means still the chances of spreading is there.

Poker Player

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Quote from: Cnut237 on March 09, 2021, 08:13:19 AM

-snip

I've merited your post, which I've done not just for this post but in general for your various post regarding COVID19. I have done so even though I disagree, which is unusual. I like that, in general it is possible to have discussions with you. With other people I have ended up putting them on ignore because of trolling or being disrespectful.

Regarding the mortality increase, I don't think this is a simple 2+2 thing, and, furthermore, it also doesn't explain why there was a huge increase in mortality in April that then subsided the rest of the year.

Cnut237

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Quote from: jrrsparkles on March 10, 2021, 03:57:06 AM

still we don't find axact way to stop the spreading

Vaccination.

jrrsparkles

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Covid was considered as more deadly because of its spreading nature by means of any medium and still we don't find axact way to stop the spreading because even if you wear complete PPE kits still you may be infected. When a person n the 13th floor diagnosed as having covid then after few days someone living in the second floor also affected but they never had any contact.Its deadly with the spread but not enough to kill the people who are affected.

BADecker

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Quote from: Poker Player on March 09, 2021, 01:00:51 AM

More on : https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2021/03/06/believing-in-impossible-things-and-covid19/

This is the scientific objectivity sold to us by the official positions. We have to believe that COVID is a terribly deadly disease, when percentage-wise it is ridiculous, and the percentages were inflated, especially at the beginning of the pandemic, because everything was overdiagnosed as COVID.

https://www.facebook.com/MichaelMcNamaraTD/posts/3840557722640402

The time that either the vaccine or the virus does damage is when people fear them more than they fear God. When people fear God, the Holy Spirit leads them into the right thinking and actions regarding both, the virus and the vaccine. Usually this thinking is to protect themselves through god's nutrition to them. Too bad most church people have been talked into fearing doctors rather than fearing God by their church leaders.

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Mauser

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This was interesting to read, but why I don't see is a real solution to covid 19. Sure we could not take the way of herd immunities and give vaccines to a large group of people. What should we do instead? Somehow there must be a solution to this pandemic. We all have been in lock down to long and really hope for our normal life's again. I am afraid that without a vaccine we are going to be stuck with wearing a mask in public.

Cnut237

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Quote from: Poker Player on March 09, 2021, 07:38:02 AM

this is a dialogue of the deaf because we have discussed those same arguments you are giving in other posts and we don't agree. We'll keep arguing I suppose.

Let's keep going. At some point we may find a new angle or a point of agreement.

Quote from: Poker Player on March 09, 2021, 07:38:02 AM

it is logical that if we have a new deadly disease (although of low mortality), the total mortality will increase. This is perfectly compatible with COVID cases being inflated, as they have been.

If there is a new and widespread disease that has low mortality, then we'd expect to see a small increase in total mortality.
If there is a new and widespread disease that has high mortality, then we'd expect to see a large increase in total mortality.
We've seen a large increase. Therefore...

This does of course assume that there is no other new common factor across nations that could account for the large increase. I'm not aware of any such factor. Also the excess mortality peaks do appear to align very closely to the peak Covid infections.

Poker Player

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Quote from: Cnut237 on March 09, 2021, 03:39:09 AM

-snip

At the end of the day, this is a dialogue of the deaf because we have discussed those same arguments you are giving in other posts and we don't agree. We'll keep arguing I suppose. For me, the most interesting part of his article is to see how, again, a physician claims that COVID statistics have been inflated. I know that you keep insisting on the mortality increase, but I answered you in the other post and you still haven't answered: for me the mortality increase does not invalidate anything of what I expose, because it is logical that if we have a new deadly disease (although of low mortality), the total mortality will increase. This is perfectly compatible with COVID cases being inflated, as they have been.

franky1

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corona virus herd immunity is more dangerous as the infection occurs in the lungs and the virus replicates.. so to get immune you have to risk the % chance of suffocating. or having mild. or long covid.
vaccines done replicate and go in the arm.. no cough no suffocating

if you were lucky to get low viral load covid to only have mild symptoms. then that low viral load would not have triggered a high immune response..
vaccine in the arm is a higher load of safer substance that will trigger a immune response.

would you prefer inflammation in your lungs or arm.. .. ill choose arm thanks

Cnut237

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Quote from: Poker Player on March 09, 2021, 01:00:51 AM

"1: ‘The Concept of Coronavirus Herd Immunity Is Deadly and Dangerous’ "..."Then the vaccines arrived at fantastical speed and I was told that mass vaccination, by creating herd immunity, would be the factor that would allow us to conquer COVID19 and return to normal life. I am not entirely sure which of these things is impossible, but one of them must be."

"‘2: Vaccines, on the other hand, are believed to induce stronger and longer lasting immunity.’"..."I think it is pretty close to impossible that vaccination can provide greater protection than that from getting the actual disease. Which is why I think it is utterly bonkers we are actually vaccinating people who have circulating antibodies in their blood."

"3: Universal mask use could save 130,000 U.S. lives by the end of February, new study estimates.’ "..."we have now entered a world when political fact checkers feel free to attack and contradict the findings of scientific papers, using such scientific terms as ‘Mostly false.’ Maybe they should have called it ‘very unique’ at the same time"

"4: As of the 2nd March 2021 there have been 122,953 deaths from COVID19 in the UK.

1. Herd immunity can be arrived at by a) everyone catching the disease, or b) vaccinating everyone. Herd immunity through everyone catching it is deadly and dangerous. Herd immunity through vaccination is not. I'm quite surprised that a doctor can't grasp the difference.
2. The advantage of vaccination over catching the disease is that you don't catch the disease.
3. Putting a mask over your nose and mouth creates at least a partial barrier to transmission. Some is better than none.
4. If you don't believe the reason, then look at data for excess deaths.

Poker Player

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Today I want to bring the thoughts of Dr Malcolm Kendrick, and I will summarize what he says but it is worth reading the whole article.

"1: ‘The Concept of Coronavirus Herd Immunity Is Deadly and Dangerous’ "..."Then the vaccines arrived at fantastical speed and I was told that mass vaccination, by creating herd immunity, would be the factor that would allow us to conquer COVID19 and return to normal life. I am not entirely sure which of these things is impossible, but one of them must be."

"‘2: Vaccines, on the other hand, are believed to induce stronger and longer lasting immunity.’"..."I think it is pretty close to impossible that vaccination can provide greater protection than that from getting the actual disease. Which is why I think it is utterly bonkers we are actually vaccinating people who have circulating antibodies in their blood."

"3: Universal mask use could save 130,000 U.S. lives by the end of February, new study estimates.’ "..."we have now entered a world when political fact checkers feel free to attack and contradict the findings of scientific papers, using such scientific terms as ‘Mostly false.’ Maybe they should have called it ‘very unique’ at the same time"

"4: As of the 2nd March 2021 there have been 122,953 deaths from COVID19 in the UK.

Unlike many people I have actually written COVID19 on death certificates. Mostly they have been educated guesses. On at least five of them, early last year, there had been no positive swab to go on. So, I was just going on probable symptoms. As were many other doctors at the time.

Which means that you can take five off that number for starters. Although, of course, once written, that is very much, that … when it comes to death certificates. In fact, early on in the pandemic, we were probably underdiagnosing as often as over diagnosing deaths from COVID19. Although no-one will ever know. With no positive swab – and few swabs were being done – and almost no post-mortems – you were simply guessing."

More on : https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2021/03/06/believing-in-impossible-things-and-covid19/

This is the scientific objectivity sold to us by the official positions. We have to believe that COVID is a terribly deadly disease, when percentage-wise it is ridiculous, and the percentages were inflated, especially at the beginning of the pandemic, because everything was overdiagnosed as COVID.

https://www.facebook.com/MichaelMcNamaraTD/posts/3840557722640402

Topic: Believing in impossible things – and COVID19 (Read 257 times)