Topic: Bernard Madoff dies in prison. A 20 year long Ponzi (Read 301 times)

When you are so big the authorities don't look into you, he has savy investors how would he scam anyone, lol?  Convenient how they turn a blind eye.

Saddest part of the whole story is the people that lost everything and were legitimately taken and lost everything they had.  Point in case never put all your eggs in one basket...even with bitcoin.

Would UBI (universal basic income) qualify as a ponzi scheme?

I think that might make for an interesting discussion.

Its an excellent point to acknowledge Bernie Madoff's ponzi scheme lasting 20 years. There are programs and financial arrangements structured very similarly to a ponzi scheme with real world longevity. I wonder if we'll eventually pay a price for our cultural trend of hopping on bandwagons with as little thought or consideration as possible. Programs like UBI might never enjoy widespread support, if people are willing to think about and question options put on the table. UBI's similarity to a ponzi scheme is something that could definitley use more attention imo.

Do you really think that arresting these ICO scammers is going to be easy? Maddof was arrested because he dealt with fiat currency and that made it easy to trace him. On the other hand, the ICO promoters are mostly anonymous and they move their funds from one country to the other in a matter of minutes. Because of the trans-national nature of their crimes, it is extremely difficult to identify them and to get them deported to the country where they committed the crimes.

They should hunt all of these "Ponzi" guys down and get them to die in jail too. These bloody Ponzi's that are using Bitcoin as a payment option has killed off millions of potential buyers of Crypto currencies, because those people got burnt and they now do not want anything to do with Crypto currencies.

If you watched the whole movie that was done on Maddof's ponzi, you would have seen how ruthless these people were. They could care less if you invested your pension money that you saved up for 40 years. 

I wouldn't really say that he is a legend, remember that this dude swindled billions of dollars and the biggest Ponzi scheme in history so far, I would say infamous to connote that this person is known for something bad. That is the reason why he created the Ponzi scheme, if he didn't do so, he would still be trading and not getting enough money, the reason is that he wants to be at the top and I don't think that he is going to redeem himself even if he were to work honestly, the dude was doing insider trading before the Ponzi.

am seeing a lot of ponzi websites outside the forum. offering high ROIs/passive income. but it is really up to the individual if he will be a victim of this scheme. their strategy is the same, deposit and earn passive income at a high rate. then, ask yourself - where are they getting the money that they will pay you as dividends if there is no clear source of their income? and normally, it also comes from the users' deposits.
madoff was just of the many individuals that successfully implemented his ponzi but at the end, he and his family suffered. maybe youre right, the technology before was different than what we have now. so he managed to sustain his scheme for 2 decades. today, once there is unsatisfied client, he can always make noise via social media and people will be aware of it.

Fortunately, those ponzi scheme project that is being introduced here in forum is already taken down before they scam many people. Maybe Madoff took advantage of a slower technology before and the lack of knowledge of many about investments before that’s why they last for years. Now that he’s dead I’m sure the justice was already serve.

It wasn't just rich people who lost money. There were pension plans, investment advisers who invest for retail investors, non-profits, and regular people who were invested. It's just that the "rich" people dominated the headlines.

I generally agree that release from prison on compassionate grounds is overused. If you can't do the time, don't do the time. Prison is tough on purpose, you shouldn't get special treatment because you were old when you committed the crimes or got sick. That's the risk you took when you broke the law that you might have a miserable time in prison due to illness or old age.

It is crazy to think that people will not learn from their blunders even though they know that they are investing in scam ponzi schemes and cryptocurrency market also had its fair share of ponzi schemes inspired by Bernard Madoff and if you look in this forum you will identify many promoting them including OneCoin, Bitconnect and PlusToken and even with all the warnings people will ignore them and invest in them and end up burning their money.

To be honest, Bernie was very unlucky with the 2007/2008 financial crisis. Without the big bust of the housing market and the collapse of the big banks he probably would have been fine. Since most of high clients were rich families who didn't really need the money they were fine by just getting statements with how nice returns they are making. It was the financial crisis and subsequent margin callls in other funds which triggered an outflow of Bernie Madoffs fund. Also they SEC never found out about the Ponzi scheme, he confessed in the end. I saw an interview of one of the SEC lawyers who said that without the financial crisis he probably would have never been caught and they would have only found out about it after his death.

Ponzi schemes are a very bad thing ,and the late investors are usually the ones who suffer the consequences, because at the time they get in there wouldn’t be any other person that will be investing and that means the scheme will come to an end and those late investors will lose their money in the investment. With all these things that has happened to these guys, I believe it’s going to be a lesson to those who are having plans to do such a thing, they will learn to avoid it and look for other things to do, because when you’re caught the law is never going to forgive you no matter how much you plead.

I think he deserved the punishment he received, and the judge made a good decision - there should be no mercy for such human garbage, and I think he got it by not being sentenced to death (if at all possible for his crime). People like him are greedy to the bone and don't give a damn - they would take a crust of bread from a hungry man only if they could profit that way.

What I am personally sorry about is that there are no more such punishments for those who still follow his example today - of course they manage to catch some, but I believe that most of them manage to disappear long before they are exposed.

Why do you compare two different countries when it comes to this?
People have been continuously convicted in the US for running Ponzi schemes even if the sums were far smaller and still got 20-30 years in prison.
Maddoff was found guilty on securities, mail, wire fraud as well as perjury, and on top of that money laundering, that's why that sentence.

Here are a few fresh examples of low-level Ponzi schemes:
https://www.justice.gov/usao-ma/pr/boston-man-pleads-guilty-investment-fraud-scheme
https://www.justice.gov/usao-ma/pr/connecticut-man-pleads-guilty-ponzi-and-tax-fraud-scheme
https://www.justice.gov/usao-ma/pr/former-belmont-resident-convicted-6-million-investment-fraud-scheme

The problem is with the Indian law system, has nothing to do with Maddoff, just because things are fucked up in some counties it doesn't mean this happens all over the world.


Well, the really big fishes stayed away from him, and one thing that is mentioned quite a few times in the investigations is that he was picky about his investors, he tried to build a club where he would admit only the ones that he would have no troubles lying to them, other than a few banks most of the other funds that were involved were run by people from his own Jewish community or totally inexperienced rich people so we could probably talk about medium fishes here. Probably that's why it went for so long, he was choosing carefully his victims.

The real large investment funds stayed away from him and ignored everything, JP Morgan cut the ties with him, and later investigations showed they knew about risks years before but kept silent for different reasons.

 

Its more amazing how these people felled into this kind of Ponzi Scheme.
Well, a 20 year old Ponzi Scheme isn't that easy to manage but that long will not last in our current era right now. I might say that there are some people who learned from the past.

I know that this man did a thing that changed the lives of many people negatively but still RIP for him because he is still a person and being happy to see a person die isn't a good thing.

Dude's a legend and a smooth talker that he managed to get off the hook for decades even with authorities, investors, and outside citizens snooping constantly on his affairs. Had he not succumbed to greediness and just worked diligently and honestly at NASDAQ, he would have been a legend in a good way. I mean, the ones he scammed were not small fishes, and to think he could lie in front of them and kept it going is absolutely insane.

He was good guy with a good reputation before and working with NASDAQ is already a big thing, its sad how he ended up scamming people and now he has to pay the price. This Ponzi Scheme is a real threat to many small investors, we’ve seen many ponzi scheme companies and yet people are still getting scammed, we should always do our own research before we invest.

Watched the movies about him, and he was really a genius for pulling that off.
Big names, companies that trusted him, thinking that he was really doing great job.
But unfortunately, there was end to his lies. And not only him that suffered, his entire family.
Lesson - just be contented on what you have. If you want to earn more, do it in legit ways.

Hoolllyy fuckkkk that is NEWS to me.

Reading the BBC news article, this quote got to me:


Like................................................bro. ^65 BILLION USD was involved in the scam what the fuck. Thats half of Bill Gates's net worth? To think of it that way, its crazyy.

I want to say fuck this guy for pulling off what he did, but he is a motherfuckin genius nonetheless that he pulled such a crazy stunt, which BY THE WAY worked flawlessly almost.

Also what is up with HSBC bank and scam artists. It truly amazes me. ref:

Interestingly, I just read that people collected around 80% of their money back from his ponzi. Obviously that is the initial investment, which means if you invested 100 dollars, you were told you have 600 dollars by Bernie Madoff, but in reality you didn't, but it wasn't zero neither, after he was prisoned and a trustee was appointed, that trustee managed to get his hands on everything Madoffs ever owned and the business as well which resulted with 80% payback on the capital, so instead of your 100 going to 600 in 20 years, it turned into 80 dollars.

All the time lost in a great market and all the pain, there were even people who committed suicide because they believed all of their life savings were gone forever, even his own son killed himself. It is not a bad news, 80% recovered is still better than 0% but it is still not nearly enough payback total.

horrible, schematic repercussions that cost a person a life. whereas nowadays ponzi schemes are on the rise in any country to justify any means to make a profit. I hope that everyone takes this phenomenon as a lesson that in doing business you must use a method that does not harm many parties.

Rip Bernie

You can say what you want about Bernie Madoff but keeping up such a massive ponzi scheme for 20 years takes a lot of guts. I am sure not everybody could have done it. And since he targeted a lot of rich people I don't feel so bad about it. They got blinded by the returns and let their guard down. He most have been a very charismatic guy. All the best to his family.

Ponzi scheme it seems as a scam in which people seens like activation energy because of profit they happen to make during involving they self into, normally someone that adventure into ponzi scheme are liable to have heart failure because of what's involves, Bernard Madoff deserved to die due to harm it caused to people in the of ponzi scheme investment or activities, this should be lesson to people who are planning to get or derive another method of scamming people, from my perspective ponzi scheme is a scam.

Good Riddance. I remember this as many have fallen for his Ponzi scheme and his name is now synonymous with that term, as he mastermind the biggest ever in history. And yes, he fronted himself very well that's why no one has suspected that he is running fraud.

And then the banks as well colluded with him, just because they are making money as well to Madoff's deposit. And then should be a lessons for majority of us, he is offering high returns, (which we all know is a sign of scams).

Yes, it is extraordinary, especially because of how long the pension or social security systems are lasting in a lot of developed countries, which are based on the same system that Madoff used. With this I am not defending him, but rather criticizing these systems that are a escape forward. The difference is that when the base of the pyramid instead of widening narrows, people like Madoff, the system collapses and they end up being discovered, while the states can squeeze more taxes to their citizens, get into debt printing much more money, etc.. In short, they have more resources.

He is the epitome of greed and is also a scum because one of his son committed suicide after the incident, not to mention that most people that he had recruited were prominent people too so when it goes down the ladder, they were able to do convince other people since most of them are influential in the financial sector too.

Madoff basically provided something that was sort of dangerous. He proved that if you do a ponzi, and if your ponzi is not insane too much to actually be wrong, that means you could both get more money, and you could keep paying everyone, all thanks to inflation and dollar losing value. Say you get 1 million dollars this year, next year when all of those people want to get out, you do not get 1 million back, it is a new year, you proved them you work, you just give them 500k, and get more money in return, do not go crazy, do not make 200%+ type of claims, do 20% and it would be seriously realistic.

This is why ponzis are scary these days, they could be as real as it gets, and that is very scary to me. I personally can't say that it will never happen at Madoff levels, it could happen again, and this time we may not even realize it and everyone could get in as well.

Madoff did it,because he seemed trustworthy and he had authority.
He also offered pretty modest returns.Nothing insane,like 50% or 100% ROI or 5% per week "guaranteed profit".Most of the current HYIP scammers are offering such crazy returns on their social media profiles.
I don't know why he did it.He was rich and he could afford a pretty comfortable life,without going this ponzi scam.I guess that greed is the greatest sin.

The fact is that Madoff died in prison only because he stole money from some of the well known and powerful people. If he had cheated ordinary people, then in all probability he would have been living in luxury in London or some of the offshore tax havens. Take the case of Vijay Mallya of India. He stole around $1 billion from the Indian banks, but the UK government has refused to extradite him to India. London has become a refuge for financial criminals around the world, with dozens of them from countries sucn as India, Greece and Russia residing there. Too bad for Madoff that he couldn't get the same treatment.

What Madoff did gone on for almost 2 decades IIRC, and I don't know how he did it but when he was caught it was too late, I would agree that most of the time that Ponzi schemes should be seen a mile away but what Madoff did was a really good one because he was a mogul in the financial sector so anything he says is going to be true in a twisted way.

I honestly hate the way Madoff's lawyer defends him, even though it's his job. As if we should all of a sudden feel sorry for Bernie Madoff because they didn't let him die alongside his family? Seriously? No man is?? He ruined people's lives!! Thousands of lives! And not just ruined, but some of them committed suicide and didn't have the pleasure of living till 82 years.

Check this: https://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/28/charles-murphy-investor-burned-by-bernie-madoff-jumps-to-death.html
And that's only what we know of.

And regarding this As a father and a husband - he should've thought about his family in the first place, because his son, sadly, also took his life. And his family will get accusations and despisal for the rest of their lives, even though it's possible they haven't been implicated in these schemes.

He did wrong and paid for it. No doubt that Madoff was smart and intellectual, if only he used his gifts and abilities for the greater good...

I don't know the guy but that's what will happen if those people who are living through ponzi and operates their own won't stop.
Yeah, there should be more focus on it for each country where most citizens don't have enough budget for financially education. That ends up having a lot of people lacks of literacy in financial matters and don't know how to distinguish scams and ponzis.

If enough people believes a lie, it becomes the truth. The same happened with the Ponzi scheme Madoff held. A lot of people had believed in his promise of profit and gains, mostly from the Jewish community as you have mentioned. The same people gathered more people due to altruistic tendencies, or maybe due to the promise of syndicated gains. At the end of the day, let's just be happy that it's finally over, and that until his dying breath he never saw the light of the day on the other side of his prison cell.

Yeah, Madoff fucked over a lot of rich people over a very long period of time--but if you've read a little bit into the history of the scam, there was one guy who kept questioning how Madoff was making such steady returns in both bull and bear markets.  He even reported his concerns to the authorities, who did absolutely nothing.

It sucks when anyone gets scammed, but I'd have much more sympathy for the victims if they weren't so rich to begin with (but I'm not saying they deserved it, because they didn't).  It does amaze me how brazen Madoff was to just flat-out lie to his clients for so long. 

I didn't realize he was so old, but I guess time flies and I'd kind of forgotten all about him since he's been in prison.  Too bad, so sad about the judge not letting him out on compassionate grounds.  He didn't deserve that IMO.

The Ponzi scheme which was carried out by Charles Ponzi landed him jail, this was the first Ponzi scheme in history. That should be so obvious that any Ponzi scheme that is so loud like that in a country that have laws and orders like USA will lead to what happened, which landed Bernard Madoff in jail also. Ponzi scheme should be completely discouraged because the late investors will certainly lose when there is no more investors coming in.

80 years old, kidney failure, the judge did not allow him to go home to die there.

Madoff run what is considered one of the longer lasting Ponzi schemes. It lasted decades and it took with it the saving of many notable citizens, particularly those of the Jew community with whom he had close links. For example the Nobel price laureate Elie Wiesel, whose charity managed to lose in excess of 15M. And all these institutions...




 It is amazing how long a Ponzi may last.