Topic: Best Method: How to mix - the entire process (Read 346 times)

Yes. It also took me an embarrassingly long time to use the "Import" buttons on the page which displays the private keys, and to stop copy and pasting each one individually.

Definitely. I would suggest setting up Tails, setting up the persistent volume, setting up Electrum, creating a wallet and saving it in the persistent volume, noting down the first address, and then shutting down your computer, unplugging the flash drive, and then loading everything up again from scratch to ensure your wallet is still there before you send any coins to it. And as I said above, you should still be securely storing your seed phrase on paper as protection against loss or damage of your flash drive.

Thanks guys,
I have now used Chipmixer with success. It's very very simple, I really didn't expect that.

Also, I use Electrum on Tails for discreet BTC transactions. This seems to work fine. 

But for anyone who is using this thread as a guide, don't forget to configure your Electrum (on Tails) to store / save bitcoin on the Persistent Volume before you send any coin to it.
.. Otherwise, you could lose it all if you shut down the Tails OS (or possibly even closing Electrum) if you don't transfer the BTC on to another wallet first! 

Anything alone doesn't work to protect your privacy. VPN is needed when you use Tor for further security and at the same time not only using Tor is safe if you don't consider a little details, for example fullscreen Tor gives possibility to detect your screen size. At the same time there are Mac addresses that needs it's attention. Windows isn't safe for your anonimity, better to use Tails linux. Even this combination isn't that safe, when you need safety and anonymity on it's max, you have to turn other things too. It's just a very complex task and not some youtube tutorial or wikihow guide to go step by step and get the desired result.

Glad you got it working.

Even when using Electrum with Tails, you should absolutely still be backing up your seed phrase in the normal way by writing it down on paper and storing it somewhere safe. This is important not just in case the persistent volume doesn't work for some reason as you say, but in case you lose the flash drive or it becomes damaged or corrupted in some way.

Understood. I will use Electrum on Tails for critical transactions. I only hope that using Persistent Volume will work when it comes to saving my bitcoin in Electrum (inside Tails), and I won't lose my coin if the computer shuts down between receiving coin and sending it on somewhere else.



I actually found this page, but you replied before I could edit my previous post. Thank you anyway.


Also, I can now report that I have set up Tails (tails-amd64-4.9.img) on a Flash drive, along with a Persistent Volume, and it works great.

... Next, I will test Electrum on it.

IP addresses are not stored on the blockchain, but they are visible to the node or nodes to which your broadcast your transaction, and in the case of light wallets, the node or nodes you use to retrieve data about the balance of your addresses. They are also visible to any block explorer you use to look up addresses or transactions, and given the vast majority of people use these site to look up their own addresses or transactions, easily linked.

You are right in saying that the IP your traffic comes from will be the VPN's IP, but you still have to have full trust in your VPN provider since they can now see and link all your traffic. There are also other ways outside of an IP to de-anonymize you, such as browser fingerprinting. Using Tor browser and connecting your wallet/node via Tor is a better solution then using a VPN.

Do you have a program installed which is capable of writing image files? Tails recommends using Etcher. There are instructions here: https://tails.boum.org/install/mac/usb/index.en.html

Thank you. Ok, so I cannot sent my mixed coins from ChipMixer to Wasabi. How about these processes?

1. Trezor One (Hardware) - - - - - > Mixer (ChipMixer) - - - - - > Electrum (on Tails) - - - - - > Destination wallet

2. Electrum - - - - - > Mixer (ChipMixer) - - - - - > Electrum (on Tails) - - - - - > Destination wallet

[Update; I now have the solution for below]
The problem I'm currently experiencing with Tails is that I can't seem to install it on my Mac... The .img file seems to be corrupted.  
... I have asked Tails customer support for help. I'll post back here when (if)  they provide a solution.

(I have noted your onion address:  ChipMixerwzxtzbw.onion   Thank you)

Thanks for posting.


If I use a VPN, surely this will protect my IP, with only the VPN IP visible on the blockchain?
  
(I appreciate you prefer Tor compared with trusting a VPN company, I understand there is more risk with this)



Here  https://bitcoin.org/en/full-node#minimum-requirements (a link from the Trezor page:  https://wiki.trezor.io/Full-node_wallet)  I see that running a "full node" requires 350 GB space on a hard drive. I currently don't have anywhere near enough space on my hard drives on any of my computers, although I do have more than enough RAM.

.. This option will require investing in an additional hard drive.



I have noted this. Thanks
 

VPNs do very little to protect your privacy. All you are doing is moving your single point of failure from your ISP to your VPN provider. You should use Tor instead.

Light wallets such as Electrum rely on connecting to other users' full nodes to broadcast transactions, which will reveal your IP address. Either run your own Electrum server, or better, run your own full node over Tor. If you want to pair that with a Trezor device, follow the instructions here: https://wiki.trezor.io/Full-node_wallet

Make sure to use ChipMixer's .onion domain - http://chipmixerwzxtzbw.onion/

@Avery_39
If you go by using mixers I strongly advise you to use .onion addresses. Tor works in a way that if you request non-Tor websites you will have to trust the Tor exit node to give you the right (or wrong) site encrypted status.
Long story short: when using mixers (or anything on Tor really) make sure you always connect to .onion addresses. This way you can rest assured that your connection with whatever service is, at least, encrypted.

Our service full name is ChipMixer. There is another service called "ChipMix" which impersonates our service.

ChipMixer gives you private keys that should not be sweeped instantly for better privacy.
Wasabi wallet cannot import ChipMixer private keys.

If you want to use both - you should add another wallet (ie. Electrum) where you can import private keys before sending it to Wasabi.
Or use Wasabi first then ChipMixer.

The basics for security are: Tails (Linux), VPN, Tor and then mixers but for the sake of god, why do you need them? If you want to buy something legal but at the same time don't want to leave traces, believe me, just using random reputable mixer without vpn and other staff will be enough. No one ever will makr any investigation on a person who buys clothes or dietary supplements online. They make investigation when there is high doubts around certain person.
If what you do is legal, then no need to worry. For educational purposes, I already said shortly basics of stack for higher security. If security is the field you are interested in, then learn it. Just 1-2 answer from this forum won't help.

Thanks for the Tor link. I have used the Tor browser before, but it looks like the only other option if Torifying an application, which reading the guide (https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/doc/TorifyHOWTO) looks very complicated, and will most likely be beyond my current understanding and abilities.

I think I will have to settle for using Tor-based programs like Wasabi Wallet to receive my coin from the mixer, while also using a VPN. 
A server room used by ExpressVPN was raided by the Turkish Police not so long ago, and they found nothing.. no logs of user activity. Link to news article: https://www.comparitech.com/blog/vpn-privacy/expressvpn-server-seized-in-turkey-verifyies-no-logs-claim/





Thank you, I think this will be the process I will follow:

Trezor wallet (use with ExpressVPN) - - - - - > Mixer (ChipMix) - - - - - > Wasabi wallet (automatically on Tor) (use with ExpressVPN) - - - - - > Destination wallet

Regarding Wasabi and sending large amounts, what amount of BTC do you/they consider to be "large"? – And what might be "problematic"?

.

Thanks for pointing out that for me personally this would be the best path in the future. I do not do any criminal business, but if it continues with anonymity, then I will definitely use it. I just don't like when someone wants to control me, including the state

Thats correct but you still need to understand the basic setting of  Tor fir total anonymity.
This would be stressful. Just send the coin normal to the mixing which surf through tor but i recommend chipmix or blender while you reach the coin throuh wasabi and use wasabi to send your personal wallet.
Note : dont use wasabi to send large amount of coin due to some shortcomings.

Thanks, ok:
1/ Use Onion version of a mixer
2/ [same as above]
3/ Use a CoinJoin wallet to send coin to mixer. Does this mean I will need to send the coin from a Wasabi wallet to the Mixer, and then from the Mixer to another Wasabi wallet?  (Wasabi uses CoinJoin)



Thanks for explaining



Thank you

Thank you. I will study your Wasabi info link.  I really like the idea of it using Tor all the time as standard.

I have briefly looked at Samourai before, it looks good, but alas I don't have a PC or an Android phone.

Thanks


Thanks. So, just to clarify, for RECEIVING I keep my VPN "on" whenever I open my receiving wallet.. which involves;

Creating the wallet address to receive coins,
Checking my wallet to see if the coins have arrived from the mixer
Sending the mixed coins onto a destination
.. ?

VPN is not recommended because if it something that involve the authority the VPN provider make unleash user IP address.
1) Using of the onion site of mixing company is what I said
2) answer number one
3) It will be better if you coinjoin wallet.


I suggest the use of it for total anonymity cause the maybe some mistake from mixing company ending.

Using VPN with Trezor is completely useless because Trezor is not privacy wallet and you should be fine if you follow the process I posted earlier.


If fully anonymous wasnt what he wish for he wont have question the way he put his statement. What could come with risk?

Avery_39 you can never be fully anonymous. Don't fool yourself on this: you can take all the necessary steps to try to be as anonymous as possible but you will never reach 100%

Having said that I suggest you look into:

• Wasabi wallet

https://medium.com/@keratichop/how-to-use-wasabi-wallet-coinjoin-guide-3102f8cc5d3c

• Samourai Wallet

https://medium.com/samourai-wallet/diving-head-first-into-whirlpool-anonymity-sets-4156a54b0bc7

Before making any move try to reach a level of confidence with the matter, otherwise you are only going to do a big mess.

If you don't feel comfortable mixing coins yourself then use mixers but do your own research before using them and try to compare them.
My 2 sats for you.

Actually, for this example, I do want to be completely anonymous.

I will keep other coins for myself that won't go through the process discussed here.

Thanks... if I "do" need to use VPN/Tor before mixing, am I looking for a
1/  Mixer that only uses Tor,
2/  using Tor on my OS/Mac (before mixing),
3/  using a wallet that has Tor (before mixing)?


I have downloaded Wasabi but have never used it before. Why do you suggest Wasabi be used in addition to the Mixer?

To safely receive coins from the mixer, can't a Trezor be used in conjunction with a VPN?

I see. Actually as these particular coins weren’t from an Exchange / KYC (Know your customer).. do they even need to be mixed?




Thanks. All my accounts / addresses in my Trezor wallet containing mixed coins will be kept separate from my Trezor un-mixed coins.

I won't be mixing most of my coins, just a small portion.
.

Use .onion version of the mixer.


Use a VPN, a free one is okay too. Create a new wallet while your VPN is active. Send the mixed coins to the new wallet. And from now on, use VPN always even when you load the wallet. Never send the coins to any service which requires KYC and an address of yours which is known to others.

To mix, so far Chipmixer is the best IMO.

I am recommending him not to have total anonymity in all his coins. Because that might become a problem in the future.

Being fully anonymous may not be what he wishes. It is good to have that option, but that comes with a risk also.

There's need to use VPN/TOR before mixing coins but in a situation when privacy is top priority it is better to use Tor because some mixing company use cloudflare.

Thats why it important to use reputable mixing company with the inclusion of privacy wallet like wasabi/samurai should enough to have total anonymity and was what theymos advised either i.e
Software wallet (Electrum) - - - - - > Mixer - - - - - > wasabi/samurai  - - - - - > Hardware wallet/Destination

It is not necessary, because the problem is taht your coins now are linked to your ID somewhere, right? An exchange probably, which you did KYC. As exchanges addresses are known, those coins are linked to an exchange (in the blockchain), and that exchange has your ID. so they are linked to you.

Once you get new coins from the mixer, those coins are not going to be connect to you in any way in the blockchain. Blockchain does not store any IP related data.

There might be some exceptions if you are ultraparanoid (and don't know any now), but it is not necessary for average users who just want to get new clean coins.


Well, not that ironic.

You will have "sterilized" coins. Everyone will know those coins came from a mixing service.

Why did you sterilized it? Did your money came from ilegal activities? you cannot prove it, no one can, because they are sterilized. Authorities may aask: What are you hiding?

Some exchanges do not accepts coisn that came from mixers or casinos. However, there are ways to bypass that check.

But we don't know how will authorities deal with mixing services in the future, neither how will each country deal with that.

You can watch this video from antonopoulous about it:

Bitcoin Q&A: Blacklists, taint, and wallet fingerprinting

Thank you. I have read all 20 pages of the thread I posted the link to above, and I see LeGaulois is a very active user and rates the service highly.



Thank you. So I guess this process would work for "New seed in Trezor" method:

  Software wallet (Electrum) - - - - - > Hardware wallet (Address 1, Seed 1) - - - - - > Mixer - - - - - > Hardware wallet (Address 2, Seed 2) - - - - - > Destination



Not at any stage in the process?  I am surprised.



This seems somewhat ironic, as the tumbling process seems to be promoted as some form of sterilization.
.

Most known and used mix in this community (bitcointalk) is Chipmixer. It is widely used here and there are no big problems by people who use it.



You are right to be worried about keeping those coins private after mixing.

You should not use your recent mixed coins together with your old compromised addresses in the same transaction. The easiest way to do that is to simple generate a new SEED in your trezor and send your new coins to a new address using that seed.

Alternatively, you can use electrum and use coin control feature, which will allow you to choose which address to spend in each transaction. I do not recommend that method if you are too worried about privacy, as you may make a mistake some day and link those mixed coins back to you.


No need to use VPN/TOR when mixing coins.

It is also important to remember that you shouldn't mix ALL of your coins, because in the future we don't know if those coins that came from mixers will be "tainted". Unless you really need to do so.

Hi guys,
I wanted to start this thread to explore the best method for mixing / tumbling bitcoins, to leave no trace of ownership, but the whole process, not just 'which bitcoin mixer to use'.  I want to choose a reliable mixer, but... I also don't want to screw up the process due to 'human error'.

I am still very new to this process, so please excuse my lack of experience.

There are many mixers on the market. Many of them seem to be scams, in which you test them first with a small transaction and all seems fine, but then you send a second (large) transaction through, and they rob you. Mixers are compared here, a great thread: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/2023-list-bitcoin-mixers-bitcoin-tumblers-websites-2827109

However, I wanted to explore the entire process from star to finish – the beginning and the end, not just the mixing stage in the middle.

SENDING:
What is the safest way to 'send' your coins to the mixer in the first place?
... Should I use a VPN?.. What browser?.. If needed, how do I create a Tor environment on my computer?.. What is the safest (most anonymous) wallet to 'send' from?.. How many wallet transactions before sending to a mixer?

MIXING:
Middle stage

RECEIVING:
What is the safest way to 'receive' your coins from the mixer after they've been tumbled?
... Should I use a VPN?.. What browser?.. If needed, how do I create a Tor environment on my computer?.. What is the safest (most anonymous) wallet to 'receive' coins – and then send to a destination wallet?

Reading the text on the sites of various mixers, they claim that their mixer works very well and protects the user's ID.. but they also remind the user that anonymity is most often compromised by 'human error' when the user doesn't use the best practices when / after receiving the coins...
... this is what I'd like to explore.

If anyone can offer any advice I'd really appreciate it.
Thanks

PS: I have invested in a Trezor hardware wallet.