[Beta] Electrum 4.0 is available for testing

Rath_

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Quote from: pooya87 on June 30, 2020, 12:18:04 AM

as far as i know that wouldn't be RBF anymore since the nodes seem to have implemented the Full-RBF not the RBF-FSS. which means changing the input/outputs mean a completely new transaction and would be a double spend.

That would still be RBF. As long as the transaction is marked as replaceable, which has been the default for some time now, and the node supports opt-in full RBF, the original transaction will be dropped even if the newer transaction spends the same inputs. I have just tested it on the Bitcoin testnet using the latest beta of Electrum. I had to double-spend manually, though. The original transaction was instantly dropped from the mempool.

pooya87

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Quote from: jackg on June 29, 2020, 10:54:05 PM

Edit nc bea tme to it, that's disapointing I thought it'd let you edit inputs and outputs... Cry

as far as i know that wouldn't be RBF anymore since the nodes seem to have implemented the Full-RBF not the RBF-FSS. which means changing the input/outputs mean a completely new transaction and would be a double spend.
bitcoin core source code has to be checked to be sure though, i have not done it. what i said is based on BIP125

jackg

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https://bit.ly/387FXHi lightning theory

Quote from: pooya87 on June 29, 2020, 10:47:27 PM

Quote from: jackg on June 29, 2020, 04:34:37 PM

~
I'm assuming this means double spends are now easier to pull off when you (mainly I) make a mistake

double spends is not about your ability of editing the transaction and how easy it is, but instead it is about whether or not other nodes are going to accept the double spent transaction. in accepting part, nothing has changed. nodes will still reject double spend transactions.
the replace by fee transactions (which could technically be categorized as a double spend) could become easier though.

There have been reports in the past of people being scammed with a clipboard jacker and noticing only once the funds have been sent. If rbf is enabled (which most of the time it is), the problem is much easier to resolve if its possible to edit a preexisting transaction.

(I'll try it in about 24 hours if no one has and report back as to whether it works or not)...

My previous solution to this problem was having a secondary device which hasn't seen the new transaction and gets taken offline before the wallet is opened and then resigns a transaction with a higher fee...

Edit nc bea tme to it, that's disapointing I thought it'd let you edit inputs and outputs... Cry

nc50lc

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Quote from: jackg on June 29, 2020, 04:34:37 PM

Quote from: pooya87 on June 28, 2020, 10:49:21 PM

2) you can now edit your transaction in the preview window

That's nice but scary also, it's my hope that I can do stuff through the preview window so it can't be edited.
I'm assuming this means double spends are now easier to pull off when you (mainly I) make a mistake

Here's the actual preview/advanced transaction window:

As you can see, nothing much have changed aside from "lockTime" which will enable the user to create "non-broadcastable" RAW transactions.
Others are already available for the old versions but now toggle-able in the preview.

pooya87

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Quote from: jackg on June 29, 2020, 04:34:37 PM

~
I'm assuming this means double spends are now easier to pull off when you (mainly I) make a mistake

double spends is not about your ability of editing the transaction and how easy it is, but instead it is about whether or not other nodes are going to accept the double spent transaction. in accepting part, nothing has changed. nodes will still reject double spend transactions.
the replace by fee transactions (which could technically be categorized as a double spend) could become easier though.

jackg

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https://bit.ly/387FXHi lightning theory

Quote from: DaveF on June 29, 2020, 11:46:51 AM

Did anything change on the back end? 4.0 will not connect to my electrum server.
Before I go on a hunt to figure out what is wrong I'll ask because I did not RTFM.
Connecting to other nodes works fine.

-Dave

I can't find anything on the release notes.

Ooooooo also android finally gets password generation/encryption in the wallet from what I can tell (but I don't want to have to reconfigure my phone again after installing the wrong apk last time)...

Quote from: pooya87 on June 28, 2020, 10:49:21 PM

2) you can now edit your transaction in the preview window

That's nice but scary also, it's my hope that I can do stuff through the preview window so it can't be edited.

I'm assuming this means double spends are now easier to pull off when you (mainly I) make a mistake

DaveF

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Crypto Swap Exchange

Did anything change on the back end? 4.0 will not connect to my electrum server.
Before I go on a hunt to figure out what is wrong I'll ask because I did not RTFM.
Connecting to other nodes works fine.

-Dave

Carlton Banks

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significant step forward for the Lightning ecosystem, nice work from electrum team (and also an enterprising idea to offer a watchtower service)

...but, craeful gang, Lightning is still quite fresh Cool

pooya87

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Quote from: dkbit98 on June 28, 2020, 05:09:27 PM

Just wondering what do you guys think is major feature update for this version (excluding Lightning)?

1) all cryptography is moved to libsecp256k1 library which is not only faster but also always going to be for bitcoin and has very low chance of producing anything consensus-invalid unlike other crypto libraries such as python-ecdsa which was used before.
2) you can now edit your transaction in the preview window
3) signatures will always have low r which means your transaction size estimation is more accurate now and when you set your fee to x sat/byte you will pay x sat/byte in 99.9% of cases whereas before you set it to x and ended up paying x.y sat/byte due to sometimes 32 and sometimes 33 byte r values. it will also mean Electrum generated signatures are going to be similar to core and other implementations signatures.

nc50lc

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Quote from: dkbit98 on June 28, 2020, 05:09:27 PM

Just wondering what do you guys think is major feature update for this version (excluding Lightning)?

Mostly lightning but the new RAW Transaction export is better than today's version.
In v3.3.8, the "Master public key" is included in the exported file or clipboard, now, only the public key in use will be included (except if you selected the other option).

That's good for privacy if ever your transaction exports got leaked, or even for security in case a real Quantum computer isn't a myth :)

dkbit98

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I will wait for main release as I don't have time for proper testing.

Just wondering what do you guys think is major feature update for this version (excluding Lightning)?
I guess they could work a bit on better interface and skin.
Newbies would like that.

Rath_

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Quote from: hugeblack on June 27, 2020, 06:13:27 AM

Does anyone know if it is possible to create Multi-Path LN Payment channels?

No, MPPs still haven't been implemented (source). Existing channels won't need to be closed once they add them. Both the sender and the receiver need to support MPPs. Intermediary nodes do not know if the payment was split so no special behaviour is required on their side.

Quote from: hugeblack on June 27, 2020, 06:13:27 AM

Did you run with Administrator privilege? Don't forget, it's still a test version, so maybe some features won't work?

That's an intentional behaviour. All implementations use only multisig native SegWit (P2WSH) addresses.

hugeblack

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Does anyone know if it is possible to create Multi-Path LN Payment channels?
I have read about it in the latest update of LN network, but I do not know whether or not it will be included in this version of Electrum.
I will try it later.

Quote from: TryNinja on June 27, 2020, 02:18:34 AM

Quote from: Chikito on June 27, 2020, 02:01:54 AM

click wallet > Infromation > enable Lighning

I have found out. Apparently, "Lightning is currently restricted to HD wallets with p2wpkh addresses".

Did you run with Administrator privilege? Don't forget, it's still a test version, so maybe some features won't work?

TryNinja

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Quote from: Chikito on June 27, 2020, 02:01:54 AM

click wallet > Infromation > enable Lighning

I have found out. Apparently, "Lightning is currently restricted to HD wallets with p2wpkh addresses".

Chikito

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Rilis beta v.2

Quote from: TryNinja on June 27, 2020, 01:50:11 AM

How do I enable Lightning? And does it work with my existent Ledger Nano S wallet? Both "Lightning Network" and "Local Watchtower" are grayed out for me.

click wallet > Information > enable Lightning

Click view > show channel

TryNinja

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How do I enable Lightning? And does it work with my existent Ledger Nano S wallet? Both "Lightning Network" and "Local Watchtower" are grayed out for me.

nc50lc

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Quote from: jackg on June 26, 2020, 05:47:23 PM

The new release looks quite interesting I'll have a look at testing it out tomorrow if there's a portable version I can put $5 on a channel and have a test with it...

Sure there is and they've already released beta v2 hours after v1, probably something urgent was changed/included.
https://download.electrum.org/4.0.0b1/

jackg

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https://bit.ly/387FXHi lightning theory

Quote from: NotATether on June 26, 2020, 03:49:09 PM

Lightning network support in Electrum is really cool, although they did mention that the Electrum servers for LN are able to misrepresent the state of a channel quite liberally, unlike on-chain servers which can't do that because they have a copy of the blockchain. The question now is which servers will we be able to trust, besides Electrum's official LN servers if any are planned, because relying on a handful of well-known servers sounds centralized to me. Perhaps a bunch of people and groups can spin up LN servers and someone can make a very long list of them to use, because I feel I can trust normal people's servers more than random LN servers on the internet.

Do we need trust in the lightning network? Normally you can set a force time lock for non cooperation and have to sign all your transactions for a new channel state. If its like 2 weeks then you shouldn't need to trust a server or a watchtower as you can handle your funds and maintain them (as long as you can come online once every two weeks)... They'll probanly release software - if they haven't already - for producing your own watchtower.

The new release looks quite interesting I'll have a look at testing it out tomorrow if there's a portable version I can put $5 on a channel and have a test with it...

NotATether

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Lightning network support in Electrum is really cool, although they did mention that the Electrum servers for LN are able to misrepresent the state of a channel quite liberally, unlike on-chain servers which can't do that because they have a copy of the blockchain. The question now is which servers will we be able to trust, besides Electrum's official LN servers if any are planned, because relying on a handful of well-known servers sounds centralized to me. Perhaps a bunch of people and groups can spin up LN servers and someone can make a very long list of them to use, because I feel I can trust normal people's servers more than random LN servers on the internet.

Husires

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Do not use this version, it is for testing and the official version will be launched soon.

Download it https://download.electrum.org/4.0.0b0/

Main features: PSBT, Lightning, Watchtowers, Submarine swaps

Discussions: https://twitter.com/ElectrumWallet/status/1275890109645312000
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/hf99g9/a_beta_version_of_electrum_40_is_available_for/

First version with support for Lightning Network

this is a beta release and they have bugfixes before the final release, so don't expect everything to work yet:

Release 4.0 - (not released yet. ETA June 2020)

Quote

Lightning funds cannot be restored from seed. Instead, users need to create static backups of their channels. Static backups cannot be used to perform lightning transactions, they can only be used to trigger a remote-force-close of a channel.

Lightning-enabled wallet files must not be copied. Instead, a backup of the wallet can be created from the Qt menu, and it will contain static backups of all its channels. Backups can also be exported for each channel (e.g. via QR code), and imported in another wallet. Since backups are encrypted with a key derived from the wallet's xpub, they can only be imported into another instance of the same wallet, or a watch-only version of it. The force-close is not triggered automatically when the backup is imported; imported backups can live inside a wallet file.

Topic: [Beta] Electrum 4.0 is available for testing (Read 389 times)