Topic: BETCOIN.AG closing my account and keeping my funds (Read 563 times)

By law, they cannot limit registrations from one IP.

But in this case, the complainant ask the help of one reputable gambling reviewer to mediate, don't generalize casinos they may be few casinos that do this but for a casino to allow third-party interference they only show that they have a security system in place and it tracks one's account of breaking their rules.
If Betcoin decline third-party interference then we can speculative that they made a wrong decision to ban a player, we have to call spade a spade and not generalize the casinos.

They invent reasons not to pay and close accounts that are not legitimate

I thought the account being closed was about self-exclusion, not multi accounting.....
i believe there is something shady going on with betcoin...they held my funds after a withdraw, accused me of being part of a "betting syndicate"
but with no proof they had to pay me. Then they closed my account.

so imo, they look for ways not to pay people. So im not suprised they looked for a way not to pay OP

In reality, they are conducted illegally in every country because they do not have a license from that country and accept users.

What is the reason for posting this here? If gambling is prohibited in a country, then it is risky to have an account on a gambling website from that country. The Betcoin.AG rep has already responded to the OP's problem here, so it appears they are working on the problem. Only after this problem is solved will the details of how they found op's fault be known.

https://igamingbusiness.com/social-responsibility/responsible-gambling/french-regulator-publishes-gambling-website-blacklist/
“When a French consumer plays on an illegal website, it exposes you to multiple risks such as the unauthorised collection of personal data, payment fraud, installation of malicious computer programs, non-payment of winnings and the absence of measures to prevent excessive gambling and underage gambling,” ANJ said.

The arbitrators, same as most people overseeing this sub-board, are neutral third party, they made their decision based on evidences. I thought you agreed that upon escalating this case to a third party arbitrator, you and betcoin will both respect and adhere to the verdict given by the mediator?


of which you replied,


If you can't accept their verdict and thought they're taking sides, I'm afraid there will be no user or platform or any other kind of service that could mediate and fix the issue, as you'll deem anyone's verdict as "taking casino's side" if the outcome didn't work as you wished.

I personally think and would consider this case as closed as I took the verdict by CG as the final answer. I think I would no longer attend to this thread. If I may add before I leave, be careful with that PM thing, you must not give your proofs to anyone blindly as those materials has your personal identity on it. Not everyone on this forum has no malicious intent. Lest you doxxed yourself and someone abused the info you're willingly share just because your judgement is clouded

---

philipma1957, I think you just dodged a bullet.

Please be reminded that you are the one who opened the thread in casino.guru and filed a complaint casino.guru renders a decision in favor of Betcoin.ag based on the proof provided if you think that something is wrong with the decision it should be because you lack proof that you do not have another account while Betcoin.ag can prove it.
Denying is not proof, you have to show something.


This could mess up things and will question your intention, those who will judge the proof should have knowledge on tracing double accounting if you did not send proofs to Casino.guru what is the reason is it because of the lack of trust in the casino.guru's judgment

What they say is based on the result of casino.guru's investigation that you are multi-accounting, other casinos will forfeit your deposit and this is a fact.

Oh im fine betcoin rep, thanks for the concern though. your transparent well wishes really warm my butthole.

if ANYONE has ANY questions about what transpired, feel free to PM me - all i can do at this point is warn the next people of what can happen with sites like these.

good luck everyone, just stick to the regulated sites like I should have.

It was for two lawsuits filed by players who had their accounts suspended and were prevented from playing in the areas in which they obtained the most benefits, when "all bets are made at the sole discretion and risk of the client." The operators will no longer be able to establish the general subscription conditions as mandatory.
 
The ruling against Betfair was issued by the deputy judge Marcos Carrero Morera under sentence 149/2021, and Bet365's by the court judge Susana Fernández de la Parra in file 108/2021. In both cases, the right of the companies to mark the general conditions boxes as mandatory for subscription was annulled, through which users are limited in case of fraud and detection of problematic gambling, among other reasons.

"Although, in theory, these clauses are included to avoid fraud situations, in reality, they are used to prevent users who earn some money from gambling, from playing again. That is: Either they are not allowed to participate or they restrict the amount of money that they can be gambled," said Simó Álvarez.

It has become clear, based on your handling of this situation, that you are not able to gamble responsibly. Because of this, we are no longer able to reopen the original account after the 60 day self-exclusion period has expired. We are grateful that you love Betcoin so much that you have chosen to open at least 3 accounts, however your first priority should be focused upon your ability to control the choices you make. Regarding the matter of the original post, it has been ruled upon by the mediator you chose. Please take care of yourself and feel free to contact us privately if we can assist in finding you some help for this issue.

Unlike the cases against malicious abusers, winning this one does not have that same feeling of satisfaction. We really just want the OP to be okay and we have done everything we can to accommodate him throughout the exclusion process. If anyone out there has a gambling problem or is unsure whether they do, we are always here to provide resources or simply lend an ear.

They ruled in favor of the casino

it's absolute bullshit, i never self excluded, i dont give a flying fuck what the mediator that i assume has some sort of ties with the casino says.

i did not self exclude.

be weary of sites like these, i shuold have known better myself, its not enough to offer wagers that are strictly in their favor but in the off chance you beat them they fabricate some nonsense to hold your winnings.

if anyone has any questions feel free to PM me, i'll be transparent as i have throughout this whole process, which cant be said for the casino or the mediator as I havent been provided any of this so called proof of exclusion which i never did.

oh and before the next person says i should be grateful that the casino didnt hold my deposit as well, please just kindly keep that to yourself, i did nothing wrong and im supposed to be grateful? no. just because the standard for crypto casinos is absolute scum doesnt mean that mostly scum should be tolerated.

big scam

jset21

Bullshit a decision based on the fraudulent practices of these swindlers.they write these rules in their interest.but from a legal point of view they have no right to steal money because of multiple registrations from one IP.stupid argument. that's what it says in the rules. ha ha laughter in the hall

Casino.guru has a good reputation in the gambling community and they render a decision in favor Betcoin.ag he may opt to go to Curacao the license issuer if he wants to but it may have an impact on their decision based on Casino.guru's decision, I checked OP profile and he has not logged in for the past 8 days, I consider this case close
I hope other casinos will do the same agreeing to be under mediation to resolve the case.

Just want to update here, that this has been resolved.
https://casino.guru/betcoin-ag-casino-player-was-accused-of-opening-multiple

As always, we would never withhold winnings from a player who was not breaking a serious rule. Responsible gambling holds a special weight with us, and we take it extremely seriously. We believe that returning the deposit here was fair, and the mediator chosen by the player believes it was generous. We are pleased to provide post-account services to any self-excluded player, including locating and registering them for responsible gambling resources in their area. As always, we thank this great community for their support and welcome all permitted players to play, enjoy and win!

The fact is not yet established that Betcoin.ag steal his money they are still undergoing third-party mediation through Casino.guru, hold your judgment until casino.guru renders his decision and lets OP show gratefulness for the money he received.
I advise OP to lock the thread for now until you can come up with an update about the status of your case to avoid trolling, be thankful that Betcoin.ag shows a willingness to address the issue, other casinos will just ignore you.

And for what he thanked .they steal his money he thanked .pitiful job

Since you received your deposit you should change the title on the status of your accusation if you think that you want to go further by asking for the help of casino.guru, then it's your choice but since Betcoin returns the deposit then update it that will reflect the real status of your complaint, so far Betcoin.ag has kept its promise, we'll see how it goes in the next chapter of your issue.
It's also your choice to lock this thread and just update if there's action on your case by casino.guru.

received, confirmed, thanks

Thanks @Saisher. As we mentioned earlier, this transaction was sent through a payment provider, instead of our normal system, as the account is not open. We noticed that one of the inputs is unconfirmed, so we put that one through an accelerator, as well, to be thorough. But yes, if this transaction does not confirm, we will of course ensure the player receives the funds. Unfortunately, at this point we just have to wait.

The fee is very small for a huge amount
https://mempool.space/tx/a87494a160e451105074b30840b3c5ad6a7f431a977e33abfa06373218829e7c

I've rebroadcast it through
https://bitaccelerate.com but its only loading when I entered the Transaction ID I know it's not a very reliable tool but this is the one I'm using to rebroadcast my transaction.
But since Betcoin.ag guaranteed that you will receive the amount, we have to trust his words just update once receive.

We rebroadcast the transaction and will monitor closely. You will certainly receive the funds.

Hi,

the transfer i received back from betcoin was on 02/27 and its received on my end but still not confirmed, see link below:

https://blockstream.info/tx/a87494a160e451105074b30840b3c5ad6a7f431a977e33abfa06373218829e7c

can anyone provide any insight if this is normal or sometimes happens? i've never had a transaction take this long

thanks

Jset21

understood! will report back

thanks

Since they said to wait, then you can wait and see if there is any result. But you can't bring any solution by complaining about this complaint in different places. Since you have already complained to casinoguru, I will wait to see the update of the result of the investigation. After making a deposit in a casino, if there is a problem at the time of withdrawal, then it creates many problems.

Casino Guru is currently examining the case.

Just one more suggestion to both players and casinos.

A proper kyc for exclusions and a separate kyc for cashing winnings need to be properly explained

before betting starts.

It is needed to protect players and casinos.

Thanks for the detailed explanation! i'll proceed with casino guru per your suggestion

jset21

I don't have anything against philipma1957, and I said this simply to give you a better assessment of the situation.

Though Philip would love to help, and most likely he'll more than willing to do it on pro bono basis so that no one need to send anything to his address, what he said above and what BitcoinGirl.Club said two posts ahead are things worth considering.

If any, you will burden him with a task of verifying and ensuring that the data from both ends are authentic and unfabricated, not to mention that if his verdict didn't works in your favor, you might feels cheated etc., I am not saying he'll take side --I'm sure he won't-- but it'll be best that if you really willing to ask a third party arbitrator and gave your data, to go with platforms out there who overseeing disputes and providing such mediation, whose decision are generally seen as more neutral and authoritative, and whose moee equipped with necessary tools and knowledge to verify the evidences submitted.

If I may repeat my suggestion, CasinoGuru might be a good option that you want to consider. Of course, we all understand correctly that since both party agreed to seek a third party mediation, once the third party is chosen and agreed by both sides, both has to comply with whatever verdict given by the arbitrator?

Look while I would love to help I am not sure what I can do.

Why would i need to send any amount?

there are 2 scenarios: 1: they have proof that i excluded, in which case they have already sent my deposit back only

2: they cannot prove this, and thusi am entitled to my funds that BETCOIN is holding

not sure why i would be obligated to send any funds in this instance?

Great job. I see the case close.

Are you sure you want to do this? May be philipma1957 will give an address and you will send the btc that sent to you to his address. Betcoin.AG will also send equal amount of bitcoin (you claimed $8k) to make it the amount you are claiming. If he find you are fair then you take all but if Betcoin.AG is fair then they will get all. May be both of you can agree on to give a fees to philipma1957 for having a mediator.

I need to grab my popcorn 😂

P.S: Before you agree I will suggest you to check every possible scenario from your side that no one actually requested to self exclude your account. We can not ignore the possibility of manipulation of data by Betcoin.AG too. It will be interesting how philipma1957 will verify it.

Hi,

I'd like to proceed with a 3rd party arbitrator for the balance of the funds on the site. I'd suggest philipma1957, as he's shown an interest in this thread, is impartial and has status in this forum.

can we move forward with this? if so, how? Assuming philipma1957 is interested in being an arbitrator here.

thanks

jset21

Congratulation for the very long achievement, I believe we can consider 32 years of staying away from something entitled you as someone who no longer bound by it.

For the rest of the post that I snipped, which talks about self exclusion procedure, I tried to look if betcoin has a direct and clear instructions on the steps needed for anyone who want to be self-excluded. Unfortunately, there were none, they help self exclusion through request made by email or live chat, though I am sure they'll told us the steps we need to do upon reaching them through the aforementioned line.

However, if I may consider that they basically runs the same steps and requirements by other casino, which I learned when I studied past cases and resolution in an attempt to overseeing a dispute raised by someone against that casino --not gonna mention who, what, or when for the sake of keeping everyone's reputation intact-- the self exclusion procedure provides/required a quite detailed and well documented actions that needs to be done by the requestee, which is why I think Betcoin side is very sure they just did their responsible gambling duty, as they have the documents proving the request.

Betcoin.AG, it'll be nice if you could inform us and clarifies if the self exclusion procedure you have required a good and proper identification to ensure the data matched the KYC of the requestee did.

Or, the simpler solution, as betcoin's representative has mentioned before, as both side are sure they're the right one and ready to prove it, OP can escalate it to an arbitrator, where they'll review the evidences given by both sides without the risk of doxxing the OP as the evidences are reviewed in private.

OP, may I suggest this platform if you'd want to clear this issue and sure that it's a misunderstanding? Just scroll down until you find an orange "submit a complaint" button.

The amount deposited was 0.15913480 BTC, which was the amount requested, however a fee was deducted by the payment provider, as this was not sent through our automated payment system. We will get the rest over to him today.

Edit: The additional is sent now, as well.

I see a transaction to the given address, hopefully the refunded your deposit. In that case case close.

P.S: The amount shows $3,705.97 though. if I am not wrong then your deposit was $4k to be exact.

i appreciate the detail of your posts and your interest in this, will definitely keep you posted as to what happens next.

Well my guess is they will likely do one of three things

A) show their exclusion system if they are legit and you are not legit as there would be two separate kyc ids that are clear proof of what they say happened.

B) blow you off and not refund your deposit and or give you your winnings.

C) tell you there is a mistake and pay you in full.

My guess is they won't do c also they really should come back here and talk about their kyc procedure for joining for collecting and for exclusion.

Many years ago I had bad gambling problems so a fair and true exclusion process should be in place.

I hope this is fixed the right way. I really would love to see the casino come back to the thread and explain the exclusion plan they do.

The ball is in their court.

I can tell you somebody is a liar but I do not know if it is the casino or the poster.

the fact the casino only mention an ip and a machine makes me think they fucked up as that is good enough to proof the was an exclusion request.

At the casino if all you have is ip and same machine that is not much and is pretty easy to spoof. You should thank the player for pointing this weakness out and go for cashing kyc and exclusion kyc from now on. waiting to hear what you have to say.

I did a selfie like this for the KYC

never requested an exclusion, and this selfie was taken after funds were won and a withdrawal was requested.

actually this interests me quite a bit.

I am a compulsive gambler.

I go to a program

I have not bet in 32+ years. July of 1990 to be exact.

So the casino claims the better [jset21] did a self exclusion.

I know self exclusion rules at Atlantic City as I live in New Jersey.

But I do not know self exclusion rules for online casinos.

In a real casino in AC. you sign a document with witnesses (notary republic)

SO the real casino can easily prove you did sign the agreement and by law they do not have to pay any winnings.

I would love to know what the exclusion document on line looks like and how the casino proves you did submit it.

I would guess a selfie with a dated piece of paper that reads I want jset21 account to be excluded held with his drivers id

Since you have your photo id on line for kya . you would have to hold it along with the exclusion request when you take the selfie.

It that photo exists jset21 will simply get a refund and lose his winnings.


But if it is a signed statement from his ip the casino know his ip and could easily fake that.


So how does one go about getting excluded on your casino>

My method of holding drivers id and a piece of paper dated requested exclusion for the selfie should be gold standard.

I do know a lot of compulsive gamblers that went back to casinos hit big and got zip because AC casinos are very careful about the exclusion papers.

So far I do not see any info on this exclusion process for this casino.

Does bitcoin.ag have a selfie for id and a selfie for exclusion?

I mocked up an exclusion selfie.

The idea that ip's match is not enough but a selfie like the one below is pretty good.

Obviously a bigger piece of paper easy to read.

and maybe the other hand must touch your chest.







and when you do the normal kyc the hand should be at your side.

So far the casino has not described the exclusion process KYC at all.


So if you score  big at the casino you may be falsely excluded and not paid your winnings.

Since the casino is not paying winnings due to exclusion where is the proof?

an ip and a machine = no proof since you know the ip and the machine already.

Just me and my girlfriend here. i already asked her. she has not self excluded herself from anything, ever.

I think the burden of proof should be on the party trying to relinquish or withold funds, i dont see why it should even be on me. I would love to see whatever proof they have so that i can atleast have an opportunity to refute it

im willing to answer any questions openly in this thread to anyone who may have them, including betcoin.ag of course.

i believe either a mistake was made on their part, or this is being done unfairly, no account was self excluded per their message.

thanks

jset21

What information would that be, compared to what Betcoin.ag can provide you can only do KYC but there's allegations that another account with the same IP and same device, and Betcoin.ag is willing to provide the proof, go ask people in your household there could be someone there gambling without your knowledge that registered using a different account maybe they saw Betcoin.ag in your history.

Jset21 is the only account i've ever used, and i loaded 4k and ran it up to 8.8k - i'll take my deposit back, and i'd be happy to provide any information required to prove that there was no account created and excluded before that by me

thanks

Jimmy

Within 24 hours after their post, as stated below,



No, BetcoinAG username Jset21 will not be reactivated, or the third account suspected to be yours too. Or any future account created. Only the original one which asked for 60d self exclusion that'll be restored. This had also been answered,

You should wait as you have shared your bitcoin wallet they obviously send you your deposit. And for 2nd question, you will get back your first account which has been excluded from gambling (self-exclusion) and then on that account, you will be able to play and you may withdraw your fund if you have any remaining balance. I mean you can use the account as usual.

Your chances are not good since Betcoin.ag agreed that they have proof since they have data proof to show it while you only have your words to back up your claim, BitcoinGirl.Club opinion may be true that someone in your household opens another account and did this, so proceed at your own risk if you want to go to the third party, other casinos will just ignore your request and withheld your funds.

I understand, can you confirm the following for me:

1: when will the deposit be sent back?

2: after 60 days, will my account be reactivated and the funds available for withdrawal

these are the only things that are still complicated/unclear

please advise

thanks

Jset21

If you would like to file a claim with a 3rd party mediator of your choosing, we will show them the clear evidence of your account being created from the same device and location as the account which requested the exclusion. This is not a complicated case.

The original account, from which you self excluded, can be reopened after 60 days. The account jset21, as well as the 2nd multi-account which was created, are permanently closed. Do not create any other new accounts. Please contact us via email if we can assist you with finding responsible gambling resources in your area. The deposit will be returned within 24 hours.

how do i file a complaint with a mediator to receive the 10 second proof of this exclusion? i never excluded.

As they have said, the new account was flagged down by their system, because it was created from a device and ip addresses that requested a inclusion. So it's systems against your word here.

Usually they gather:
a. IP address
b. Device that you are using
c. OS of that device and other footprint that they can say that it come from the same person/account.

Since you already gave a address to send your funds back, then you have to wait 60 days.

please send my deposit back to to bc1q7aulu4tx86v66xluw5c9j6je43npse9f6rmm82

are you saying that my account with username jset21 will be unlocked at 60 days with the rest of my funds withdrawable? please confirm

also - i never self excluded from this or any other account, i want it to be made perfectly clear for anyone coming accross this, that nobody excluded this account

please advise,

thanks

May be someone from the family did that if you are confident that you did not self excluded. Your account is not going to send an automated request to self exclude. The solution they are giving is to get return of your deposit. It's better to agree on it. I do not see any scam is happening here so having this thread in the scam accusation is pointless. This could be resolved on their ANN thread.

You are welcome to play on the original account, once the 60 day exclusion has completed. Please provide a BTC address to return the deposit.

I am the player, i did not ask for any exclusion? why shuold i only receive my deposit back? do you have any proof that i requested an exclusion? I'm a profitable sports better with hundreds of thousands of winnings this year, why on earth would i ever ask for that?

you wanna shut me down? fine, but pay the full amount you owe - i did not exclude myself from anything.

Thanks

jset21

This account was created 3 days after an account from the same device and location asked for a 60 day responsible gambling exclusion. There is also a 3rd account created, which was closed prior to any activity.

We are not "keeping" anyone's funds. We have offered to return the deposit and are waiting for him to provide an address to send it. Had the player lost the funds, he would be on here asking for a refund, because we allowed him back after exclusion. Unfortunately, there is no great solution for anyone in these matters, however it would be irresponsible of us to reward players for violating self-imposed exclusions. We take responsible gambling extremely seriously and this is the standard resolution for these matters.

If the player claims he is not the same person who asked for the exclusion, he can file a complaint with a mediator and we can prove it to them in about 10 seconds.

Betcoin.AG has closed my account without my permission, and it has been over a week since my withdrawal request and I have received nothing.

I loaded 4kusd via crypto and ran it up to over 8k in the sports book, i did their KYC, and since then my account has been inaccessible, when i login it says "user is disabled Launch error 401" - this error pops up even when im trying to do something as simple as making a support ticket

I talked to their live chat on their websit which thankfully worked, and they provided me [email protected] to reach "management"

here is the email thread below:

Initial emial:

> Hi,
>
>  My account has been disabled and i am waiting on a pending withdrawal
> still and also have an active account balance
>
>  this came after i did the verification that my support ticket
> provided.
>
>  i did everything that was asked except when they said i have to use
> the device that i played on i couldnt because i played from a computer
> that doesnt have a web camera, desktops dont have that
>
>  let me know if i can be of further assistance i would like to play on
> your site again and get my withdrawal.
>
>  thanks

reply:

Hello, your new account was suspended, as you asked for a 60 day
exclusion 3 days prior on your original account. We take responsible
gaming very seriously. Please do not create any additional accounts
during the exclusion period. Once the 60 days has passed, we can reopen
the original account, only. We will return the deposit on this account,
as a courtesy. If any other accounts are found, they will have the full
balance withheld, including deposit, per our terms of service. Please
provide a BTC address to return the deposit.

Regards,
Security

reply from me:

What original account i never had another account with you guys? I never excluded myself i honestly an unaware what youre talking about do you have more details? I would not self exclude. Something very wrong is going on here i want all my funds returned not just the deposit

Please provide further details

Thanks


that's it, since this email i have not been provided any information, i have not been sent ANY money despite already putting a withdrawa request in weeks ago, and they've completely locked me out of my account with over 8k usd in there.

added details: on my device where i made my bets, i can't even press the login button I have to go on data on my phone just to be able to access the login page now.

I'm not sure if this is something anyone else has experienced or not, but i have not ever excluded myself from any of their products it seems like theyre just shutting me down, and waiting me out to keep all my funds

please let me know if anyone has experienced this and how i should approach it

thanks