Bettor Beware - Don't Trust BitBook - They've Been Cheating

quone17

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Quote from: mrdeposit on January 27, 2014, 05:35:52 PM

Quote from: justbc on January 27, 2014, 05:23:22 PM

Looks like others are coming around on what BitBook is all about:

Quote from: BitCappers.com on January 27, 2014, 02:14:55 PM

Seems like a lot of things on this website such as the max are mis leading, why haven't you fixed this?

Currently their site has been down for several hours. Like I said before, if you trust them with your bitcoins, you can easily find yourself out of action.

If you was informed, you would know that bitbook.biz has a backup site bitbook.bz so nobody ever miss a bet or access to their bitocins.

He's too interested in bashing Bitbook. OP, where are your additional bad things you have to say about Bitbook? No one has had any real problems here, why are you causing trouble?

mrdeposit

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Quote from: justbc on January 27, 2014, 05:23:22 PM

Looks like others are coming around on what BitBook is all about:

Quote from: BitCappers.com on January 27, 2014, 02:14:55 PM

Seems like a lot of things on this website such as the max are mis leading, why haven't you fixed this?

Currently their site has been down for several hours. Like I said before, if you trust them with your bitcoins, you can easily find yourself out of action.

If you was informed, you would know that bitbook.biz has a backup site bitbook.bz so nobody ever miss a bet or access to their bitocins.

justbc

member

Activity: 98

Merit: 10

Looks like others are coming around on what BitBook is all about:

Quote from: BitCappers.com on January 27, 2014, 02:14:55 PM

Seems like a lot of things on this website such as the max are mis leading, why haven't you fixed this?

Currently their site has been down for several hours. Like I said before, if you trust them with your bitcoins, you can easily find yourself out of action.

BitcoinzRulez

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H

hilariousandco

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Join the world-leading crypto sportsbook NOW!

Quote from: mrdeposit on January 22, 2014, 02:21:11 PM

I'm starting to wonder who justbc works for...

Or maybe he just lost a lot of money there? Grin

mrdeposit

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I'm starting to wonder who justbc works for...

bitcoinsrock

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Merit: 250

Quote from: justbc on January 22, 2014, 10:04:10 AM

If you use BitBook you may have noticed that last Wednesday Jan. 15, many or all betting lines were not working. The reason for this is BitBook (and many other unlicensed, non-professional BTC books) do not set or adjust their own lines - they're following a Pinnacle Sports odds stream without Pinnacle's permission and against their rules.

Here's what Pinnacle had to say about it:

Quote

From: Lauren B @ Pinnacle Sports
Sent: Friday, January 17, 2014 4:53 PM
Subject: Re: Pinnacle Odds Feed

Quote

I have been aware of some Bitcoin sports betting sites - which seem to be proliferating recently - building on top of your odds feed. Do you have a position on this?

That is definitely not an acceptable use of our feed or our lines and would result in the closure of any account.

Thanks,
Lauren / Affiliate Account Manager / Pinnacle Sports

If and when Pinnacle stops the stream or has an interruption, your BitBook balance will be out of action.

This isn't unique. A lot of books clone Pinnacle or CRIS and the cash books have been doing it for a decade.

bitcoinsrock

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Activity: 295

Merit: 250

Quote from: quone17 on January 22, 2014, 11:01:47 AM

Quote from: justbc on January 22, 2014, 10:04:10 AM

If you use BitBook you may have noticed that last Wednesday Jan. 15, many or all betting lines were not working. The reason for this is BitBook (and many other unlicensed, non-professional BTC books) do not set or adjust their own lines - they're following a Pinnacle Sports odds stream without Pinnacle's permission and against their rules.

Here's what Pinnacle had to say about it:

Quote

From: Lauren B @ Pinnacle Sports
Sent: Friday, January 17, 2014 4:53 PM
Subject: Re: Pinnacle Odds Feed

Quote

I have been aware of some Bitcoin sports betting sites - which seem to be proliferating recently - building on top of your odds feed. Do you have a position on this?

That is definitely not an acceptable use of our feed or our lines and would result in the closure of any account.

Thanks,
Lauren / Affiliate Account Manager / Pinnacle Sports

If and when Pinnacle stops the stream or has an interruption, your BitBook balance will be out of action.

Why are you "tattling" on Bitbook? Sounds like sour grapes or you're about to try to extort Bitbook.

agree. Bitbook is one of the top sportsbooks cash or BTC for us players.

quone17

full member

Activity: 224

Merit: 104

Quote from: justbc on January 22, 2014, 10:04:10 AM

If you use BitBook you may have noticed that last Wednesday Jan. 15, many or all betting lines were not working. The reason for this is BitBook (and many other unlicensed, non-professional BTC books) do not set or adjust their own lines - they're following a Pinnacle Sports odds stream without Pinnacle's permission and against their rules.

Here's what Pinnacle had to say about it:

Quote

From: Lauren B @ Pinnacle Sports
Sent: Friday, January 17, 2014 4:53 PM
Subject: Re: Pinnacle Odds Feed

Quote

I have been aware of some Bitcoin sports betting sites - which seem to be proliferating recently - building on top of your odds feed. Do you have a position on this?

That is definitely not an acceptable use of our feed or our lines and would result in the closure of any account.

Thanks,
Lauren / Affiliate Account Manager / Pinnacle Sports

If and when Pinnacle stops the stream or has an interruption, your BitBook balance will be out of action.

Why are you "tattling" on Bitbook? Sounds like sour grapes or you're about to try to extort Bitbook.

justbc

member

Activity: 98

Merit: 10

If you use BitBook you may have noticed that last Wednesday Jan. 15, many or all betting lines were not working. The reason for this is BitBook (and many other unlicensed, non-professional BTC books) do not set or adjust their own lines - they're following a Pinnacle Sports odds stream without Pinnacle's permission and against their rules.

Here's what Pinnacle had to say about it:

Quote

From: Lauren B @ Pinnacle Sports
Sent: Friday, January 17, 2014 4:53 PM
Subject: Re: Pinnacle Odds Feed

Quote

I have been aware of some Bitcoin sports betting sites - which seem to be proliferating recently - building on top of your odds feed. Do you have a position on this?

That is definitely not an acceptable use of our feed or our lines and would result in the closure of any account.

Thanks,
Lauren / Affiliate Account Manager / Pinnacle Sports

If and when Pinnacle stops the stream or has an interruption, your BitBook balance will be out of action.

piccolod

newbie

Activity: 43

Merit: 0

I don't see the problem here. Bitbook has never denied that they were doing this, they were open about this issue from the time someone pointed it out earlier. The thing that is bugging me here is why are you asking for a bug bounty on this Huh

, I can understand if it was the user who pointed it out earler still I don't think this was a bug, it was just how the site was designed. They have added the feature to now check for all odd shifts which is good.

uber

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Merit: 0

Quote from: FUR11 on January 21, 2014, 02:19:36 PM

I think you don't understand what he was saying. I believe it was a situation where if you bet on something at 1.8 and then as you were betting it, it changed to 1.85, you wouldn't get the 1.85, you'd get the 1.8. This isn't super common but it really isn't that big of a deal since it happens so rarely and for such small amounts. I do understand why people were upset and wanted it changed, and am glad that it is changed.

That certainly makes more sense. Guess I misunderstood the part about the bet being accepted without warning that the odds had changed. Read that as the odds on the betslip being changed.

Still seems like an overreaction if the customer get the odds they wanted, but not a great solution so I understand why they changed it.

FUR11

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Activity: 378

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FURring bitcoin up since 1762

Quote from: uber on January 21, 2014, 01:33:20 PM

Quote from: justbc on January 21, 2014, 07:52:15 AM

If the odds shift in your favor before you place a bet, the bet is accepted without warning you that the odds have changed.

However if the odds change in their favor only, as you would expect the bet is rejected, forcing an odds refresh.

Do you even understand what you are "complaining" about here?

I haven't tried this site myself, but it sounds like a pretty common feature even for heavily regulated bookmakers. Especially for live betting that is more of an industry standard.

It is hardly cheating anybody. If the odds change is in favor of the player, for example odds changing from 1.8 to 1.85 and giving the player a better price it still accepted with a system like that. It would only be rejected if it gave the players a worse price than they wanted, in that case they have to select themselves if they want to bet the lower odds or not.

I think you don't understand what he was saying. I believe it was a situation where if you bet on something at 1.8 and then as you were betting it, it changed to 1.85, you wouldn't get the 1.85, you'd get the 1.8. This isn't super common but it really isn't that big of a deal since it happens so rarely and for such small amounts. I do understand why people were upset and wanted it changed, and am glad that it is changed.

uber

newbie

Activity: 26

Merit: 0

Quote from: justbc on January 21, 2014, 07:52:15 AM

If the odds shift in your favor before you place a bet, the bet is accepted without warning you that the odds have changed.

However if the odds change in their favor only, as you would expect the bet is rejected, forcing an odds refresh.

Do you even understand what you are "complaining" about here?

I haven't tried this site myself, but it sounds like a pretty common feature even for heavily regulated bookmakers. Especially for live betting that is more of an industry standard.

It is hardly cheating anybody. If the odds change is in favor of the player, for example odds changing from 1.8 to 1.85 and giving the player a better price it still accepted with a system like that. It would only be rejected if it gave the players a worse price than they wanted, in that case they have to select themselves if they want to bet the lower odds or not.

Wendigo

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Merit: 1036

Quote from: justbc on January 21, 2014, 12:40:33 PM

Quote from: bitbook.biz on January 21, 2014, 11:51:56 AM

We believe that it is especially important for bitcoin businesses to consistently operate in an honorable fashion,

Your software was purposely designed to be dishonorable. Your spin cannot make it otherwise. You are not a licensed and regulated business or such dishonesty would never be allowed in the sports betting industry.

Quote from: bitbook.biz on January 21, 2014, 11:51:56 AM

When we first built BitBook our aim was to try to minimize the percentage that we have to reject bet requests. Based on this we had a couple checks on each bet and an odds shift to a higher payout was not something we looked for.
As OP mentions this has been known for some time, and is not something that we ever denied.

Ever played poker? This is the equivalent of the dealer not telling you when you put too much money in the pot while always telling you when you put too little. They're calling this a feature!

This obvious inequity/dishonesty/exploit was reported on this forum a month ago and is only now fixed (supposedly, I won't be back to test it) as a result of my threat to expose them.

Quote from: bitbook.biz on January 21, 2014, 11:51:56 AM

This change was made and posted about prior to this thread being posted.
OP contacted us and threatened to post something bad about us if we wouldn't pay him not to do so.

You knew about it for 9 months (you purposely designed it!), were outed for a month and still did nothing about it. My demand was to fix this immediately and I was always going to inform the community whether you paid a bug bounty or not.

Quote from: bitbook.biz on January 21, 2014, 11:51:56 AM

Again, we believe it is important for bitcoin businesses to be held accountable, but trashing businesses unfairly is damaging to the bitcoin space in general.

Again you're not a licensed business. All you have is user trust and you've trampled on it. This isn't trashing because your unethical practice is a documented fact. To the contrary it will help the bitcoin space if untrustworthy enterprises are marginalized and relegated.

There is more to come from me as well, but I will do a timed release of information over the coming days in an effort to keep this toward the top.

Bettor beware.

I am interested to know for how much money you are extorting bitbook to pay you you little piece of ****?

justbc

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Quote from: bitbook.biz on January 21, 2014, 11:51:56 AM

We believe that it is especially important for bitcoin businesses to consistently operate in an honorable fashion,

Your software was purposely designed to be dishonorable. Your spin cannot make it otherwise. You are not a licensed and regulated business or such dishonesty would never be allowed in the sports betting industry.

Quote from: bitbook.biz on January 21, 2014, 11:51:56 AM

When we first built BitBook our aim was to try to minimize the percentage that we have to reject bet requests. Based on this we had a couple checks on each bet and an odds shift to a higher payout was not something we looked for.
As OP mentions this has been known for some time, and is not something that we ever denied.

Ever played poker? This is the equivalent of the dealer not telling you when you put too much money in the pot while always telling you when you put too little. They're calling this a feature!

This obvious inequity/dishonesty/exploit was reported on this forum a month ago and is only now fixed (supposedly, I won't be back to test it) as a result of my threat to expose them.

Quote from: bitbook.biz on January 21, 2014, 11:51:56 AM

This change was made and posted about prior to this thread being posted.
OP contacted us and threatened to post something bad about us if we wouldn't pay him not to do so.

You knew about it for 9 months (you purposely designed it!), were outed for a month and still did nothing about it. My demand was to fix this immediately and I was always going to inform the community whether you paid a bug bounty or not.

Quote from: bitbook.biz on January 21, 2014, 11:51:56 AM

Again, we believe it is important for bitcoin businesses to be held accountable, but trashing businesses unfairly is damaging to the bitcoin space in general.

Again you're not a licensed business. All you have is user trust and you've trampled on it. This isn't trashing because your unethical practice is a documented fact. To the contrary it will help the bitcoin space if untrustworthy enterprises are marginalized and relegated.

There is more to come from me as well, but I will do a timed release of information over the coming days in an effort to keep this toward the top.

Bettor beware.

bitbook.biz

sr. member

Activity: 434

Merit: 250

Quote from: justbc on January 21, 2014, 07:52:15 AM

If the odds shift in your favor before you place a bet, the bet is accepted without warning you that the odds have changed.

However if the odds change in their favor only, as you would expect the bet is rejected, forcing an odds refresh.

This was mentioned by a player over a month ago in their 80+ page thread which surely many have tuned out, and BitBook has been saying it's a feature not a bug!

Please read that one more time. They've been intentionally cheating players since their inception in March of last year.

Yesterday I (unaware of said thread) emailed them demanding that this be fixed and requesting a small bounty. After one email they stopped responding and now I see that they claim this exploit has been fixed, after running with it for 9 months and having been publicly outed for 1 month.

Why bet with someone who willfully cheats you?

You're going to see their mouthpiece with his bizarre photo-icon come on here and say something about "we wanted to reject fewer bets." Translation: We were happy to take advantage of you if we could.

In the coming days I will reveal additional reasons why you should stay far far away from BitBook.

We appreciate the effort to bring accountability to the bitcoin space. We believe that it is especially important for bitcoin businesses to consistently operate in an honorable fashion, and we hope that we can help further the general trust in bitcoin and act as a gateway to new attracting new bitcoin users.

With regard to the allegations made in this thread, we would like to share our perspective and make a few points:

When we first built BitBook our aim was to try to minimize the percentage that we have to reject bet requests. Based on this we had a couple checks on each bet and an odds shift to a higher payout was not something we looked for.
As OP mentions this has been known for some time, and is not something that we ever denied.
In response to some user requests we built an additional check which will reject bets based on any shift. This increases the amount of bets rejected, but we made this change in response to user requests.
This change was made and posted about prior to this thread being posted.
OP contacted us and threatened to post something bad about us if we wouldn't pay him not to do so.

Again, we believe it is important for bitcoin businesses to be held accountable, but trashing businesses unfairly is damaging to the bitcoin space in general. There are many people that are interested in bitcoin, but have been led to believe that it is just full of scam artists and cheats. We believe that it is important that we don't further these fears unnecessarily since they are harmful to everyone that wants to see bitcoin succeed.

quone17

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Merit: 104

No, the OP is right. Bitbook was actually doing something that I also believe is unfair. I am glad they have fixed it but I'm left wondering why they thought it was ok to do in the first place.

djarot

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What the hell you talking about?
Are you their competitor?

justbc

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Activity: 98

Merit: 10

If the odds shift in your favor before you place a bet, the bet is accepted without warning you that the odds have changed.

However if the odds change in their favor only, as you would expect the bet is rejected, forcing an odds refresh.

This was mentioned by a player over a month ago in their 80+ page thread which surely many have tuned out, and BitBook has been saying it's a feature not a bug!

Please read that one more time. They've been intentionally cheating players since their inception in March of last year.

Yesterday I (unaware of said thread) emailed them demanding that this be fixed and requesting a small bounty. After one email they stopped responding and now I see that they claim this exploit has been fixed, after running with it for 9 months and having been publicly outed for 1 month.

Why bet with someone who willfully cheats you?

You're going to see their mouthpiece with his bizarre photo-icon come on here and say something about "we wanted to reject fewer bets." Translation: We were happy to take advantage of you if we could.

In the coming days I will reveal additional reasons why you should stay far far away from BitBook.

Topic: Bettor Beware - Don't Trust BitBook - They've Been Cheating (Read 1691 times)