Topic: [BFL 4GHs chips Group buy] Interest check @ 100 chips x $75, 5 chip min US ONLY! (Read 3128 times)
June 21, 2013, 11:18:38 AM
MODS CAN CLOSE/REMOVE THIS THREAD.
June 11, 2013, 10:11:02 PM
I'm willing to keep an open mind on this...
Any preliminary plans on how many chips per device?
Any preliminary plans on how many chips per device?
I am just guessing but most likely would probably be that any project follows at least for starters the BFL designs for Jalapeno (2 chips) or some version of Klondyke with maybe 4, 5 or 6 chips. Of course that is really just speculation.
June 11, 2013, 09:32:49 PM
I'm willing to keep an open mind on this...
Any preliminary plans on how many chips per device?
Any preliminary plans on how many chips per device?
June 11, 2013, 08:42:59 PM
How in the world would you trust a sketchy offer from an even more sketchy company?
For 3 reasons:
1. 50% down
2. Ordering is from Global Foundries that also handle delivery
3. Chip functionality is verified. BFL delays have been 90% PCB, power and software issues.
If you don't know, could you find out?
I am worried that BFL is going to send us the defunct lot they are using right now instead of the brand new lot that will be baked at the Fab. I don't want yesterdays revision that has caused so many problems (let them deal with those). I want the latest revision fresh from the Fab.
I do NOT have the answer to that. However, since they ARE making promises on power consumption/hash speed on the chips I believe it is direct delivery from GF. Also: As far as I know, the chips have never been the issue. It has been the boards not keeping their power/dissipation promise.
June 11, 2013, 05:40:25 PM
How in the world would you trust a sketchy offer from an even more sketchy company?
For 3 reasons:
1. 50% down
2. Ordering is from Global Foundries that also handle delivery
3. Chip functionality is verified. BFL delays have been 90% PCB, power and software issues.
If you don't know, could you find out?
I am worried that BFL is going to send us the defunct lot they are using right now instead of the brand new lot that will be baked at the Fab. I don't want yesterdays revision that has caused so many problems (let them deal with those). I want the latest revision fresh from the Fab.
June 11, 2013, 02:15:05 PM
would be interested if BFL can release Reference documentation for PCB schematics , etc now
They have already stated that this will happen very soon, and well in time for developers to create pub etc. before chip delivery.
June 11, 2013, 01:12:00 PM
would be interested if BFL can release Reference documentation for PCB schematics , etc now
June 11, 2013, 12:39:34 PM
Well, for those interested. Group buy is open: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/group-buy-bfl-4-ghs-chips-065-btc-x5-min-us-only-closed-232003
June 11, 2013, 12:24:48 PM
2. Ordering is from Global Foundries that also handle delivery
GF now produces fully packaged and tested chips? Or do the chips get ordered from GF, then sent to a bumper, then sent to a packager, etc.?
June 11, 2013, 12:24:27 PM
Quote
Since each chip has a minimum of 12 cores, IF a chip happens to be of lowest quality (12 cores) and also of the lowest clock speed @ 250 mhz it would run @ 3GHs. Though I find it unlikely, since my guess is that less cores, would allow a chip to dissipate more heat and likely run at close to or at the highest clock speed of 290 mh/s+ giving even class-D chips around 3.4 gh/s.
Best case scenario would be a chip of class A with 16 cores @ 294 mh/s running at 4.7 GH/s.
Best case scenario would be a chip of class A with 16 cores @ 294 mh/s running at 4.7 GH/s.
so...would it be possible to run multiple chips at different clocks on the same board?
June 11, 2013, 11:45:34 AM
So is BFL handing out all the details on DIY like Avalon did?
And would you want them since they obviously worked like crap? (only jallys shipping)
so what are you trying to build here? Any dev chips being sent out?
if this offer becomes the best option we are all doomed
And would you want them since they obviously worked like crap? (only jallys shipping)
so what are you trying to build here? Any dev chips being sent out?
if this offer becomes the best option we are all doomed
BFL will be releasing specs for boards etc. and while BFL obviously had problems with building miners (though it seems they will start shipping all models this week or next) there seems to be nothing wrong with the chip design in itself.
I am convinced that the community will have Klondyke like designs ready well in time for chip shipping. And even though there is a lot of suspicion (to put it lightly) in the forum reg. BFL, I feel pretty confident that Global Foundries (a billion dollar business with long track record) can and will indeed ship the chips on time.
June 11, 2013, 11:33:29 AM
So is BFL handing out all the details on DIY like Avalon did?
And would you want them since they obviously worked like crap? (only jallys shipping)
so what are you trying to build here? Any dev chips being sent out?
if this offer becomes the best option we are all doomed
And would you want them since they obviously worked like crap? (only jallys shipping)
so what are you trying to build here? Any dev chips being sent out?
if this offer becomes the best option we are all doomed
June 11, 2013, 11:25:04 AM
Bitfury is also projecting in that time frame. However KNC and Bitfury have yet to produce a single chip.
June 11, 2013, 11:08:58 AM
If BFL releases their chip schematics and firmware to open source, that would make things interesting.
The mixed lot method is a tad bizarre, I guess they don't want to spend the time & money on binning the chips.
If they lowered the deposit to 5%, and accepted the rest right before shipping that would make it more attractive.
The clock is ticking however, and I don't think they have 100 days.
The mixed lot method is a tad bizarre, I guess they don't want to spend the time & money on binning the chips.
If they lowered the deposit to 5%, and accepted the rest right before shipping that would make it more attractive.
The clock is ticking however, and I don't think they have 100 days.
Though I by no means have been impressed by BFL when it comes to shipping etc. I do believe that the 100 days will be kept for a number of reasons:
- It's chip only. No design to mess with, no power draw to worry about.
- The chips are ordered straight from Global Foundries
- Design, functionality and performance has been verified already
- BFL are in fact currently (according to public posts) shipping 100s of Jalapeno a day (Apparently through the weekend they caught up on entire July/Aug 2012 pre orders)
Even assuming BFL is not late (for once), 100 days from now is Sept 20th. That is smack in the middle of KNCMiner's product delivery window. If KNCMiner actually delivers anywhere near spec, they will have better price/performance than BFL. It is just too long to wait.
June 11, 2013, 11:05:27 AM
How in the world would you trust a sketchy offer from an even more sketchy company?
For 3 reasons:
1. 50% down
2. Ordering is from Global Foundries that also handle delivery
3. Chip functionality is verified. BFL delays have been 90% PCB, power and software issues.
June 11, 2013, 11:04:05 AM
I would probably purchase 25 chips.
Would you consider accepting escrow for the 50% not due until delivery?
Would you consider accepting escrow for the 50% not due until delivery?
I considered that but I think that considering my record, feedback and previous group-purchases AND the fact that I would have to turn BTC-into USD to aleviate the risk of a fall in BTC price (that I would have to cover personally if I did not) I think Escrow may just add to the complexity of the buy.
Of course I will post all possible proof of the order, first 50% down etc. I just can't take the risk of a BTC crash happening while over 30 BTC are in escrow. This would possibly jeopardize the entire group buy as it would be possible I would not have funds to cover the remaining 50% should this happen.
I hope this makes sense.
Yes that makes sense. Escrow would only work if you could escrow the 50% in USD somehow.
June 11, 2013, 11:03:24 AM
If BFL releases their chip schematics and firmware to open source, that would make things interesting.
The mixed lot method is a tad bizarre, I guess they don't want to spend the time & money on binning the chips.
If they lowered the deposit to 5%, and accepted the rest right before shipping that would make it more attractive.
The clock is ticking however, and I don't think they have 100 days.
The mixed lot method is a tad bizarre, I guess they don't want to spend the time & money on binning the chips.
If they lowered the deposit to 5%, and accepted the rest right before shipping that would make it more attractive.
The clock is ticking however, and I don't think they have 100 days.
Though I by no means have been impressed by BFL when it comes to shipping etc. I do believe that the 100 days will be kept for a number of reasons:
- It's chip only. No design to mess with, no power draw to worry about.
- The chips are ordered straight from Global Foundries
- Design, functionality and performance has been verified already
- BFL are in fact currently (according to public posts) shipping 100s of Jalapeno a day (Apparently through the weekend they caught up on entire July/Aug 2012 pre orders)
June 11, 2013, 11:02:07 AM
How in the world would you trust a sketchy offer from an even more sketchy company?
June 11, 2013, 10:59:09 AM
If BFL releases their chip schematics and firmware to open source, that would make things interesting.
The mixed lot method is a tad bizarre, I guess they don't want to spend the time & money on binning the chips.
If they lowered the deposit to 5%, and accepted the rest right before shipping that would make it more attractive.
The clock is ticking however, and I don't think they have 100 days.
The mixed lot method is a tad bizarre, I guess they don't want to spend the time & money on binning the chips.
If they lowered the deposit to 5%, and accepted the rest right before shipping that would make it more attractive.
The clock is ticking however, and I don't think they have 100 days.
June 11, 2013, 10:56:12 AM
I would be interested in 5 chips possibly, we need to see the PCB details :-)
As of now there are no PCB details available. Though with delivery in 100-days there is no doubt that DYI projects etc. will be available well before chip delivery. I will also work on securing building service so that chips can be seamlessly turned into miners upon delivery.
-1 No thanks.
I understand that running a mining coop makes you want to keep hash rate off the market, but "-1 No thanks." is just pointless. If you are not interested, why even post? Just bad manners.
June 11, 2013, 10:53:09 AM
I would be interested in 5 chips possibly, we need to see the PCB details :-)
As of now there are no PCB details available. Though with delivery in 100-days there is no doubt that DYI projects etc. will be available well before chip delivery. I will also work on securing building service so that chips can be seamlessly turned into miners upon delivery.
-1 No thanks.
June 11, 2013, 10:43:39 AM
Can you find out if this is a possibility?
Edit: Any power specs guarantees? (Don't want the bad lot that consumes 6 watt per Gh/s.)
Edit: Any power specs guarantees? (Don't want the bad lot that consumes 6 watt per Gh/s.)
According to order page:
Power consumption: 3.2 Watt per GH/s
June 11, 2013, 10:42:57 AM
I would probably purchase 25 chips.
Would you consider accepting escrow for the 50% not due until delivery?
Would you consider accepting escrow for the 50% not due until delivery?
I considered that but I think that considering my record, feedback and previous group-purchases AND the fact that I would have to turn BTC-into USD to aleviate the risk of a fall in BTC price (that I would have to cover personally if I did not) I think Escrow may just add to the complexity of the buy.
Of course I will post all possible proof of the order, first 50% down etc. I just can't take the risk of a BTC crash happening while over 30 BTC are in escrow. This would possibly jeopardize the entire group buy as it would be possible I would not have funds to cover the remaining 50% should this happen.
I hope this makes sense.
June 11, 2013, 10:42:05 AM
I might be interested depending on how much it would cost to get them assembled into a working PCB.
June 11, 2013, 10:40:08 AM
Are the chip lots marked clearly as Grade A, B, C, D or are they selling them blindly and we get what we get?
How do you guarantee we will get Grade A if we pay 75$ per chip for Grade A? (Instead of Grade D's mixed in)
How do you guarantee we will get Grade A if we pay 75$ per chip for Grade A? (Instead of Grade D's mixed in)
BFL is not charging $99 for Grade A chips (their original proposal). They are charging a discounted $75 per chip for a mixed batch so they don't have to sort them. They are not labelled.
It would kinda suck to end up with a ton of Duds.
I would strive to (if marked on arrival) ship users chips according to the percentage distribution BFL ships guaranteeing at least 4 GH/s per chip, per 5-chip order unit. Aka. I would strive for fair distribution of hash rate across all group order members.
June 11, 2013, 10:40:00 AM
Can you find out if this is a possibility?
Edit: Any power specs guarantees? (Don't want the bad lot that consumes 6 watt per Gh/s.)
Edit: Any power specs guarantees? (Don't want the bad lot that consumes 6 watt per Gh/s.)
June 11, 2013, 10:38:23 AM
Are the chip lots marked clearly as Grade A, B, C, D or are they selling them blindly and we get what we get?
How do you guarantee we will get Grade A if we pay 75$ per chip for Grade A? (Instead of Grade D's mixed in)
How do you guarantee we will get Grade A if we pay 75$ per chip for Grade A? (Instead of Grade D's mixed in)
I guarantee nothing reg. Chip quality that BFL has not stated. The process I would use would be blind where I ship a random amount of each grade (based off BFL % for Grade A-D) by simply packaging and sending chips without myself knowing the grade (I assume that BFL will send them un-marked). If chips ARE indeed marked I would select chips for each purchaser as well as possibly to ensure fairness and that each chip batch of 5 or more contains chips of grades that reflect the statement on the Butterfly Labs order page (60% Grade A etc).
June 11, 2013, 10:34:16 AM
Are the chip lots marked clearly as Grade A, B, C, D or are they selling them blindly and we get what we get?
How do you guarantee we will get Grade A if we pay 75$ per chip for Grade A? (Instead of Grade D's mixed in)
How do you guarantee we will get Grade A if we pay 75$ per chip for Grade A? (Instead of Grade D's mixed in)
BFL is not charging $99 for Grade A chips (their original proposal). They are charging a discounted $75 per chip for a mixed batch so they don't have to sort them. They are not labelled.
It would kinda suck to end up with a ton of Duds.
June 11, 2013, 10:30:40 AM
Are the chip lots marked clearly as Grade A, B, C, D or are they selling them blindly and we get what we get?
How do you guarantee we will get Grade A if we pay 75$ per chip for Grade A? (Instead of Grade D's mixed in)
How do you guarantee we will get Grade A if we pay 75$ per chip for Grade A? (Instead of Grade D's mixed in)
BFL is not charging $99 for Grade A chips (their original proposal). They are charging a discounted $75 per chip for a mixed batch so they don't have to sort them. They are not labelled.
June 11, 2013, 10:27:02 AM
I would probably purchase 25 chips.
Would you consider accepting escrow for the 50% not due until delivery?
Would you consider accepting escrow for the 50% not due until delivery?
June 11, 2013, 10:18:52 AM
Are the chip lots marked clearly as Grade A, B, C, D or are they selling them blindly and we get what we get?
How do you guarantee we will get Grade A if we pay 75$ per chip for Grade A? (Instead of Grade D's mixed in)
How do you guarantee we will get Grade A if we pay 75$ per chip for Grade A? (Instead of Grade D's mixed in)
June 11, 2013, 10:16:25 AM
How much is it now for the Grade B through D chips? (Any specs released by BFL on those grades?)
They lowered the price across the board and are now only guaranteeing 4 GH/s instead of using the 'hand picked/per chip' approach.
4Gh/s guarantee even for Grade D chips?
You have to explain it to me or get Josh to clear this up.
From what I can tell ALL chips are guaranteed to run at 3 GH/s+ according to:
"Chip grades: Chips come in four grades of performance. Chips are sold in mixed grade lots. A grade has 16 engines, B grade has 15 engines, C grade has 14 engines and D grade has no less than 12 engines. All chips run at a minimum of 250 mhz. Higher grade chips will run up to 294mhz. The percentage distribution in each lot is 60% Grade A, 20% Grade B, 15% Grade C and 5% Grade D." from link @ https://products.butterflylabs.com/65nm-asic-bitcoin-mining-chip.html
Since each chip has a minimum of 12 cores, IF a chip happens to be of lowest quality (12 cores) and also of the lowest clock speed @ 250 mhz it would run @ 3GHs. Though I find it unlikely, since my guess is that less cores, would allow a chip to dissipate more heat and likely run at close to or at the highest clock speed of 290 mh/s+ giving even class-D chips around 3.4 gh/s.
Best case scenario would be a chip of class A with 16 cores @ 294 mh/s running at 4.7 GH/s.
Since chip distribution is 60% Grade-A and only 5% grade D it seems exceptionally unlikely even with a 5 chip order that the average hash rate would come out to less than 4 GH/s. It seems statistically even a random selection would produce OVER 4 GH/s.
A couple of questions:
How can they give us info on what the spreads are of Grade A through D if they haven't yet fabbed the new chips? (Isn't it 100 days away?)
Or are they giving us the old lots they already "have" fabbed that are meant for pre-orders? (The ones with power problems)
June 11, 2013, 09:54:40 AM
How much is it now for the Grade B through D chips? (Any specs released by BFL on those grades?)
They lowered the price across the board and are now only guaranteeing 4 GH/s instead of using the 'hand picked/per chip' approach.
4Gh/s guarantee even for Grade D chips?
You have to explain it to me or get Josh to clear this up.
From what I can tell ALL chips are guaranteed to run at 3 GH/s+ according to:
"Chip grades: Chips come in four grades of performance. Chips are sold in mixed grade lots. A grade has 16 engines, B grade has 15 engines, C grade has 14 engines and D grade has no less than 12 engines. All chips run at a minimum of 250 mhz. Higher grade chips will run up to 294mhz. The percentage distribution in each lot is 60% Grade A, 20% Grade B, 15% Grade C and 5% Grade D." from link @ https://products.butterflylabs.com/65nm-asic-bitcoin-mining-chip.html
Since each chip has a minimum of 12 cores, IF a chip happens to be of lowest quality (12 cores) and also of the lowest clock speed @ 250 mhz it would run @ 3GHs. Though I find it unlikely, since my guess is that less cores, would allow a chip to dissipate more heat and likely run at close to or at the highest clock speed of 290 mh/s+ giving even class-D chips around 3.4 gh/s.
Best case scenario would be a chip of class A with 16 cores @ 294 mh/s running at 4.7 GH/s.
Since chip distribution is 60% Grade-A and only 5% grade D it seems exceptionally unlikely even with a 5 chip order that the average hash rate would come out to less than 4 GH/s. It seems statistically even a random selection would produce OVER 4 GH/s.
June 11, 2013, 09:49:10 AM
How much is it now for the Grade B through D chips? (Any specs released by BFL on those grades?)
They lowered the price across the board and are now only guaranteeing 4 GH/s instead of using the 'hand picked/per chip' approach.
4Gh/s guarantee even for Grade D chips?
You have to explain it to me or get Josh to clear this up.
June 11, 2013, 09:46:56 AM
How much is it now for the Grade B through D chips? (Any specs released by BFL on those grades?)
They lowered the price across the board and are now only guaranteeing 4 GH/s instead of using the 'hand picked/per chip' approach.
June 11, 2013, 09:39:22 AM
How much is it now for the Grade B through D chips? (Any specs released by BFL on those grades?)
June 11, 2013, 09:36:07 AM
They also [apparently] expect the board makers to create their own firmware to run the chips.
Kinda crazy!
Kinda crazy!
With the drop in price (from $90+ to $75) per chip and the fact that they DO have functioning miners running the chips. I expect there to be a wide array of DYI projects and miner manufacturing offers well in time for chip shipment though. It took avalon DIY projects just a few weeks from chip announcements to release spec for Klondyke and k64, I would be very surprised if the same is not true for the BFL chips especially since there are sample chips floating around and it is very much in the best interest of BFL to release specs to boost chip sales.
June 11, 2013, 09:27:08 AM
They also [apparently] expect the board makers to create their own firmware to run the chips.
Kinda crazy!
Kinda crazy!
June 11, 2013, 09:14:26 AM
I would be interested in 5 chips possibly, we need to see the PCB details :-)
As of now there are no PCB details available. Though with delivery in 100-days there is no doubt that DYI projects etc. will be available well before chip delivery. I will also work on securing building service so that chips can be seamlessly turned into miners upon delivery.
June 11, 2013, 09:11:27 AM
I would be interested in 5 chips possibly, we need to see the PCB details :-)
June 11, 2013, 09:10:00 AM
I have previously hosted 2 separate group buys for KNC and Bitfury miners that both closed successfully (fully subscribed) within 24 hours of opening. I am considering a new group buy of the just announced BFL 65 NM, 4 GH chips. They sell in minimum quantities of 100 chips @ $75 per chip (See. info: https://products.butterflylabs.com/65nm-asic-bitcoin-mining-chip.html )
The group buy would likely be set up as a 5 chip minimum @ around 0.8-0.9 BTC per chip. I would 'charge' around 10% for administration of the buy (In BTC or Chips), and shipping/handling of chips and most likely the management of turning purchased chips into functional miners once PCB designs/specs are available and DYI projects or build services are available. I would also update the group buy with possible DYI or professional building of miners when available. Chip delivery is in 100 days according to website (Delivery directly from Foundry, which makes delays less likely. After all we are dealing with Butterfly labs here and anything that removes delay factors is a positive).
If you are interested, post here and I will likely launch the group buy within the hour so we can be the absolute first to receive chips.
NOTE: THIS IS BRAND NEW PRICING and the first group buy at this price (25% lower then initial pricing). There is no 'pre order' process. 50% of purchase price is down-payment and 50% is paid on delivery. The group buy DOES require 100% payment up-front though as I will need to secure BTC/$USD price and the fact that non-payment on delivery date would cause the entire order to fail and we can't take that risk.
US Shipment ONLY!
Edit: According to available forum information "burnin and Chris (Klondike) - considering BFL chip board" so it seems building miners will likely not be a problem once chips are delivery ready or before.
The group buy would likely be set up as a 5 chip minimum @ around 0.8-0.9 BTC per chip. I would 'charge' around 10% for administration of the buy (In BTC or Chips), and shipping/handling of chips and most likely the management of turning purchased chips into functional miners once PCB designs/specs are available and DYI projects or build services are available. I would also update the group buy with possible DYI or professional building of miners when available. Chip delivery is in 100 days according to website (Delivery directly from Foundry, which makes delays less likely. After all we are dealing with Butterfly labs here and anything that removes delay factors is a positive).
If you are interested, post here and I will likely launch the group buy within the hour so we can be the absolute first to receive chips.
NOTE: THIS IS BRAND NEW PRICING and the first group buy at this price (25% lower then initial pricing). There is no 'pre order' process. 50% of purchase price is down-payment and 50% is paid on delivery. The group buy DOES require 100% payment up-front though as I will need to secure BTC/$USD price and the fact that non-payment on delivery date would cause the entire order to fail and we can't take that risk.
US Shipment ONLY!
Edit: According to available forum information "burnin and Chris (Klondike) - considering BFL chip board" so it seems building miners will likely not be a problem once chips are delivery ready or before.
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