Topic: {BFL} Bitcoin miners sue Butterfly Labs (Read 9585 times)

Karpeles is trying to make it looking as incompetence the reason of mtgox crash. The same with Zerlan and company. Only investigation may discover the truth. And lawsuits they are very afraid are fist steps to investigation.
As an unfortunate customer of BFL I have two questions:
- how long will BFL keep old gen miners on stock for RMA?
- will BFL offer upgrade to the new gen devices for their customers?
If BFL is trying to maintain proper customer relations as they are stating, they certainly should have an answers for these questions.

And dont dare speak up about BFLs incompetence and their track record and compare what they write on their site to lure you in ....

You will get banned for speaking your mind on their forum....



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Butterfly Labs / Josh latest lie will be used in court against them.


More and more promises ("LIE") to manipulate YOU!

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/4414-monarch-information-2.html#post77863

Actually, you started the attacks and lies Bickski, so you are complaining about reaping what you've sown.  So sad you forget these little details, but then again, you have to or you'd probably be kept up at night by your conscience.  Oh, yeah, forget you don't have one....

A paid cheap shill. Give him a miner and dinner with drinks and he will tell all sorts of lies, attack people's good name all for what? The only thing of value is your reputation. Not that those lying for BFL care about that if they did they wouldn't be willing to lie to this community would they?

If it can mine bitcoins successfully, then it is fully functioning.


Yes there are. I do not trust them to give unbiased reports. I do not read product reviews from reporters that accept gifts due to the conflicts gifts cause.


You are right in one thing, I haven't been given any gifts. Jealous? Not a bit. I've been mining since long before BFL even existed. I don't need gifts.

AS I said, you already knew the answer even though you state it wrong.  It was NOT a fully functioning miner as it was hashing over 20% below the current models being shipped, it was not able to be sold so it was given as a gift with no strings attached.  Bruno was also given a free unit, which he decided to sell, does that mean he was paid off as well, since the trolls on here have insinuated as much several times now.  What I find interesting is that I have never advocated buying ANY miner from ANY company, yet I am 'whiteknighting' for BFL simply because  made it known I purchased from them and disagree with the haters who think they'd have gotten rich.  You and others lied to me repeatedly, telling me my money was gone that BFL was taking it and running and that I'd never see my miner, yet I have my Jalapeno sitting right here hashing away just like the 40,000 other units BFL shipped that you said would never happen.  The trolls say I've lied, which is another lie on their part.

You people are sad and you harp on the same things until the dead horse you're beating gets crushed into powder and you continue beating the ground.  Anyone who doesn't toe the Anti-BFL line is either a shill, a sock-puppet or as *U* puts it has Josh's hand up their rears.  I'm just wonder whose hand is up your rear paying you to make all these posts?  Bickski seems to be a likely source, maybe you are just his sock-puppet/shill and are being offered a free developer board for your hatred.

Unlike the rest of you, *I* have a fair bit of intelligence and I apply it to understand truths that others gloss over, such as the farcical claims about making 5000-7000BTC from a pair of mini-rigs or making 100BTC with a little single.  The math is simple and the data is out there, yet people are blinded, like Mr Meissner, that THEY would be the ONLY one to get a unit running and they'd be fat, dumb and happy with Millions of dollars.  I guess 2 out of 3 ain't bad;)

In addition, using your logic, there are numerous people on this board who have been 'paid off' by being given a unit they did not pay for.  I personally think you are bitter that you weren't one of the lucky ones.  Jealousy is such a terrible thing to hold onto, maybe you should see a councilor.

Whether BFL specifically said "post pro-BFL" or not, he was paid off. He was given a new, fully functional miner at no cost. So when he tries to imply impartiality by claiming "I wasn't paid to post", it's deceitful.


That sounds like an RMA routine, quite reasonable.

And no one was forced by anyone to send in a pre-order. End users chose to send them money, that's life.

That's not relevant unless he was explicitly expected to post things to this thread by BFL. *I* was sent "free hardware" from BFL, yet I post under no impramateur from them.

C

* My free hardware was a single old-style heat sink sent to me so I could see if it cooled better than the AL sinks on Jalapenos. As I posted in my threads, it does work better due to less airflow obstruction. This is completely irrelevant to the question of "did BFL screw people", my independant research showed that they ran into a big problem and bent over backwards to provide equipment that met promised specifications, even to the extent of shipping a lot of extra stuff and taking a loss.

All other equipment in my research was either purchased by me at full price/ebay prices, or was donated to me by other users (chips, a blown board, beer).

BFL was never forced (by random strangers) to accept pre-orders. They chose to accept pre-orders all on their own.


I was giving you the chance to be honest. Not surprised you didn't take it.

bcp19 was given free hardware by BFL. His "I'm not paid to post here" isn't the full truth.

Hmm, let's look at https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.588169

Direct quote: PS.  In the meantime, I would suggest all of you who don't have a pre-existing relationship with the company refrain from making any pre-orders.  We appreciate the interest in our product, but the hostility isn't worth it. Please just wait for off the shelf units to be available.  Thx.

Why ask questions you already know the answer to?

Oh, right, people here *forced* BFL to accept pre-orders. Please explain, how does an anonymous forum poster force a company to accept pre-order funds?



Remind us again, did BFL give you free hardware?

This business model pretty much came out BECAUSE of the miners.  In reading through the old threads, it fairly obvious that BFL was trying to create something with the FGPA and then sell it, but someone found their test page and started screaming scam which kinda forced them to come on here and defend themselves while they were still in development.  They originally did not want to have pre-orders, heck, they didn't even set out to make BTC miners, they were looking at another application of the FPGAs and were approached by miners who started the whole idea rolling.  Once word leaked, so many people on here basically begged for them to take pre-orders, that they relented and offered people the chance to order something that did not yet exist.  Once the door was opened, others came along and did the same thing, so it was basically a vicious cycle, take pre-orders and hope everything goes well or wait and watch as others take those pre-orders.

I personally knew about the BitSafe they talked about at CES back in Sept when Bruno and I visited the BFL facility.  That was something they were able to work on without the pressure of pre-orders cause it wasn't public knowledge and no one was hounding them for it.  So many people on here use the phrase "shut up and take my money" as sarcasm, but in reality, that's what happened as people were more interested in getting THEIR place in line than learning IF or WHEN it would come into existance.

The sad truth in all of this is that the miners brought this about and then turned around and damned them for doing it.

It's kinda lilke the people who think I am being paid to post on here.  I can honestly say that I enjoy a good income and I'd be willing to bet that BFL would not be willing to offer me a job where I am making more than I am now.

I personally wouldnt take the risk on a preorder from any company,  not just BFL.   Why pay for someone to develop product and get nothing but delays and headaches  when you could support a company that actually did it professionally and funded their venture before selling a product. 

This type of business model does not work in the long run.  Im sure they will eventually send out a product.  But you could have been mining already if you stuck with one of the companys that actually had products to ship instead of buying a hope  that you will have something to mine with in a year.  Everyone is so caught up in ROI ,  but how much ROI are you making right now with the delays?

This is strictly my opinion only.  I have not ordered from BFL and never would. 

IIRC Bitfury did have some type of pre-order funding through metabank.  However, it was limited to Russian citizens or something to that effect.  ASICMiner was publicly funded through an IPO which was very successful.  Bitmain did it entirely on their own.

We can also add Gridchip to the list, and I think they funded it entirely on their own too.

Aww, you just like what I have to say and you know it.

Maybe I misread your intent, but it sure sounded like you were inferring only BFL had to use someone else to manufacture their chips while the others did it onsite.  I do tend to zone out when reading your posts, because you do tend to has a lot of useless drivel in them, so I blame you for the misunderstanding.

Did bitfury, ASICMiner or Bitmain need to preorder so they could raise the money to develop their chips? not saying they did or didn't,  its a honest question.

Let's see, I know Bitfury designed his own chip. ASICMiner did too. As did Avalon. I think Bitmain did too. In fact, many ASIC manufacturers designed their own chips.

Neither did any other manufacturer?  Are you sure about that?  Surely you couldn't be wrong with that statement.  

How did you even get off my ignore list anyways?  Your input is the same old useless drivel.  Go out and do something productive with your life.

Using your criteria, neither did any other Bitcoin ASIC manufacturer... so what was your point?

BFL may have "managed" their own silicon in the sense that they contracted someone else to do it.  They did not design it in-house.

When you finally get around to shipping your hardware out the door, you can start talking smack. Until then, you just look like a dick.

And please let us all know when you actually manage your own custom silicon, too.

Especially for BFL. How are those Monarchs 10 months and counting.

Nice to see you still have those rose-colored glasses firmly in place.

There's a whole lot of armchair everything around here.  On that note, if in discovery it was found that BFL had been given dates from suppliers that don't align with BFL's public communication made at the time I don't imagine it'd be that hard to draw the connection.


  Tell me about it.

I still believe I would have,say what you want   

And there's the rub. Proving that they knowingly participated in a deception is fairly difficult.

Hanlon's Razor states:


On the face of it, the simplest explanation is plain incompetence. To make it to the level of fraud, you're going to need some proof. Note that I'm not actually saying that BFL are (or are not) fraudsters. Just pointing out that the legal threshold for calling it "fraud" is just a wee bit above the allegations thrown around by the armchair lawyers here.

As an aside, designing and manufacturing an ASIC is quite a bit more complicated than most of the armchair hardware designers would have you believe as well. I write software for a living, but I do it in a hardware world. It's pretty fucking difficult to ship a commercial hardware project out the door, let alone one that involves custom silicon.

One element of fraud that I've seen surprisingly little suggestion of is, that the c/e/r/t/a/i/n/t/y/ the possibility that they were doing extensive mining with customer equipment before finally shipping it.  Although this seems a bit slimy to me, it also seems like a rather slippery thing to pin to them.

I think it would be a ton of fun to use the discovery process to pick apart what's privately known about this story.  What smoking-gun emails are there?  If these guys are pros, then they probably saved their darkest communication for face-to-face or on-their-knees encounters.  But there would be plenty of external email from their vendors that can more clearly establish the circumstances of requests, timing, reason for and actual existence of delays, etc.   It would be easy to demonstrate that various BFL spokesmen were l/y/i/n/g/ /s/a/c/k/s/ /o/f/ /s/h/i/t/ systematically knowingly far from truthful over a long period of time.

It would also be a lot of fun to reconstruct the timeline of "where were the chips?"  When did BFL finally get their hands on which batches?  How were they tested?  How long did that take?  Were they _able_ to do mining at this step?  Then what?  Were these chips _ever_ the bottleneck in production?  Were they innocently sitting in a big pile in a warehouse while other bottlenecks were dealt with?  Continue this into their attachment to the PCBs and then assembly into the final equipment most of the customers eventually received.  If you watch this closely I predict you'd find large quantities of chips available for ill use over a long duration.  Somebody will have a lot of 'splainin' to do about why these chips were sitting the in the warehouse doing nothing while the customers are screaming for fulfillment.

And don't even get me started on the order of shipments.

I don't quite follow you here.  Bicknellski's argument is that BFL is knowingly deceiving the customer.  Fraud is more or less defined as knowingly (and deliberately) committing a deceptive act.

If it can be proven that BFL knew their timelines were unachievable, then they knowingly participated in a deception. Ergo, fraud.

I could see how the first round of ASIC timeline failures could be construed as an innocent misunderstanding of the scale of task at hand, but to have a second round follow an almost exact replica of the initial product and it too be taken as an innocent miscalculation is not something the average person would accept.  This especially after BFL posted that they had "learned their lessons and this time was different".

Ah yes. The "your position automatically equates to this other thing" argument. Brilliant stroke of logic, that.

I do say different. "Fraud" is a legal concept. And legally speaking, incompetence is not the same as fraud. Anyone who says otherwise probably isn't a lawyer.

How about we focus on BFL?

What BFL is doing is nothing more than selling equity and passing it off as a product. 12 months does not a pre-order make. It is fraudulent plain and simple to say you are going to deliver product in October when you know full well your product won't ship for at least another 3 to 4 months and possibly more. We all have seen them do it and this lawsuit puts a fine point on it. Let us look at the Monarch... started design over 10 months ago according to their own statements. Same play every time put up "optimistic" date and then wow go figure they fail to meet the deadline and push and push and push 12 months later still people have yet to receive their miners. Same pattern again and again. This is clearly fraud and if you say different you are obviously paid by BFL in some fashion. Shills for me get ignored I have not time to argue with anyone who is paid to promote this company when we all understand without reservation, based on evidence right here in these forums, that BFL is morally and ethically bankrupt. Let us hope in the future we can just drop the adverbs.

Given the bait and switch that KnC appears to be attempting, and the long delays that HashFast encountered, I don't know that singling out BFL is really appropriate. Yes, BFL are incredibly inept. That's not the same as being scammers, though -- not by a long shot.

There are literally 100's of similar incidents of late, failed delivery, no refunds, poor RMA etc and the tip of the ice berg given how pervasive these issues are across the planet. It really begs the question how inept are BFL?

There are more complaints posted and threads started about BFL in the widest range of social media that any other fabricator. Partially do to the volume of orders but mostly due to the ineptitude on so many levels at BFL.

Let us all hope that this is not the last time BFL goes to court. Let us also hope that these lawsuits finally put an end to BFL. Their model for bait and switch and delay shipping is being shown to be a scam based on competition being able to design, sell and ship in cycles in the same time it takes BFL to push a single design out in what is always a 12 month design to product window. 10 months now on the Monarch.

It's still a bogus lawsuit, there's no way he could ever hope to obtain $5mil in damages when the ONLY way he could have mined that much is if he were the ONLY person with a minirig starting all the way back on May 1st and mined constantly to date without ever spending a single bitcoin in the process.  Since the 1st mini-rig didn't ship until somewhere around June 24th, this is already an impossibility and his claims are therefore unrealistic.  While we will never know exactly how much BFL had in sales prior to his order, there would have been a huge impact on the network to the point where he likely would not even made 1/10 of what he is claiming as his 'damages' if BFL had shipped everything prior to him in order to get him his units by the date he claims he should have gotten it.  While you call ME a troll, you in true fact are the troll because you are still blinded by the belief that everything would have been so simple and you would have made millions when you actually probably made more from your GPUs than you ever could have had BFL shipped on time.  Anyone with a modicum of intelligence could sit down and figure out the effect of 10's of thousands of people's order on the BTC network and see that your pipedreams are just that... dreams.

Months ago I posted what would have happened to the network if BFL had started shipping ONLY a single mini-rig a day starting Oct 1st and the outcome wasn't pretty.  The reality would have been much worse.  The interesting thing is that the last few months are an indication of what would have happened 15 months ago had BFL been able to ship on time.  I realize the troll in you will think I am trying to say todays difficulty would have happened last year... but that is not what I am trying to say.  I am saying if you look at the dif on Oct 2013 until now, that is the change you would have seen a year ago if BFL had shipped on time.  Deny it all you want, but you were spared a year's worth of crying over difficulty spikes all due to the fact that BFL wasn't able to ship on time.  None of the Avalon Batch 1 people would have made ROI if BFL had shipped on time.  ASICMiner shares would have never been the success they were if BFL had shipped on time.

The sad and simple truth is that you and all the other trolls will never open your minds to the harsh reality of what would have been cause you are too content living in your rose-colored glasses dream of being millionaires and living the high life if BFL had shipped you your miner on time.

Well I'll have to disagree with you I posted my response to a quote.  The quote I responded to mention this case specifically.  So I responded to something about this case in a thread about this case, I don't think it's unreasonable to assume the comment was about THIS CASE and not a generically blank statement about something that is pretty clearly not accurate.  You threw in all customers not me.

Would it have left less ambiguity if I provided the link, possibly, but the lack of the link doesn't change the intentions.

Without the link or ANY kind of context in your post, it was absolutely a straw man.

I was specifically speaking about the case linked below (the one that the troll I quoted was speaking about) and responding to him about this case directly.  Of course BFL has delivered product (lots of it too) but reportedly not to this person.  I would have thought it clear since everyone know's that BFL has shipped merchandise that I was speaking about the case at hand and not generically.  It wasn't a straw man bro, was a comment on this specific case.

http://ia700702.us.archive.org/13/items/gov.uscourts.ksd.95395/gov.uscourts.ksd.95395.2.0.pdf

Likewise if you offer to deliver the product, the customer "refuses" and the items delivered meet the specs then what the heck else do you want?

If you make a mistake on an investment you don't get to call for a "do over". That would be one hell of an investment strategy though....

Everything I have ordered from BFL has arrived. And oddly enough I can see where they delivered me *more* product to meet the exact terms of what I ordered (4.5gh jalapeno that should have not been expandable. They shipped me a 5gh unit with the capability of going to 32gh. That's not bad)

No, of course not. But your statement is a straw man. Clearly, BFL has delivered their products (albeit pathetically late). You seem to be insinuating that they never deliver their products, ever. That's simply not true.

So then you think it's perfectly legal to "sell" a product to a customer and then NEVER deliver his product OR refund their money?  What fucking planet does a stupid troll like you live on??

You will get to see first hand if this ends up in a court room that all the FTC rules we have been quoting for months are going rip BFL a new asshole.  For a genius your grasp of very old and very tested consumer protection laws is incredibly lacking.   If this hits a court room BFL will lose, probably not the full 5 mill the dude is asking for but he will win much more than the 60K BFL owes him by law already.  And as for you laughing at the guy because he is asking for so much, do you even know how this shit works, that is exactly what you do, you ask for the absolute maximum you can think of then either settle it down or work it out with the courts to determine a number set by the court.

You're a stupid troll, will be fun to laugh at you and BFL when they get a good schooling I can't wait!!!!!!!!!

+1

This was a new and untested area and the learning curve was very steep.  The first 2 ASIC's out were made with what could be considered extremely dated technology (110nm for one of them) and with the push for better and faster it's become AMD vs Intel for who can put the next gen online and who can push the boundaries even further.  Sadly the generation we live in falls into the "instant gratification" group and cannot see the time and effort needed to produce anything like this (must be why some people create boards and forego creating chips) and can only criticize things they have no true understanding over.

Personally I doubt this lawsuit is going very far, the person who initiated it has used false data to come up with damages based on past performance of the network without consideration of the fact that by adding his 3TH to the network at the time he specified that the results he calculated become skewed and no longer valid.  In order to mine 150BTC a day with 3TH, the network difficulty would have to have been ~10,080,000 which at the time was roughly 70-75 TH.  He's figuring he'd have 4% of the network coming to him without affecting said network.  Of course, he also discounts the 10 months of people who ordered before him who would have to get products before his could be added to the network.  Must be nice to live in such a dream world.  Reminds me of Unacceptable and his "I would have made 100BTC from a little single if they had shipped in Feb!".  Sooner or later the rose colored glasses will have to come off and the harsh shade of reality will sink in.

Please admins put some emoticons with popcorn;

this thread really deserves them!

Love it American greed at its finest.

Hanging out on Neptune, no doubt.

(This is not meant to be a dig at any one particular ASIC company or in support of another ASIC company -- just pointing out how difficult the production of cutting-edge ASICs is, and that the development cycle is at this point longer than the useful lifespan of any given generation of hardware).

SOOOOOOOOOO much pure win in that lawsuit, it will be funny to laugh at BFL and there fanboys.  Interesting how the lawyers cites all those FTC rules some of us have been going on about for the last year and a bit. 

Good fucking bye and good fucking riddance you scum bags now it's time for you to understand what the real world thinks of your illegal business practice and your ignorant attitude.  You are going to get a well deserved lesson in reality that I suspect a lot of people will be happy to see.

All my opinion.

At this point it isn't miscalculation what it really is, is fraud.



http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/02/new-lawsuit-against-bitcoin-miner-manufacturer-alleges-fraud-negligence/

http://ia700702.us.archive.org/13/items/gov.uscourts.ksd.95395/gov.uscourts.ksd.95395.2.0.pdf

https://ia600702.us.archive.org/13/items/gov.uscourts.ksd.95395/gov.uscourts.ksd.95395.docket.html





Comment Section below the ARS Article puts it in perspective:

How come they miscalculated their development time again. It being their 3rd generation miner I would have expected better.
Maybe it's their business model.

It's a good thing I didn't order from them again.

They shipped 45000 mining units and single handedly killed their own equipment after they sold them by shipping even more and exploding the difficulty.

Difficulty is a vicious cycle and must be avoided by switching to altcoins. A serious flaw Satoshi didnt anticipate or invested in.

Back on topic, another write up.  More people calling up this lawyer.  BFL is about to be taught a lesson in how retail operations work in the real world and I can't wait to laugh my ass off at them.

Hey Josh LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL, couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of fucking scammers!  You better pray to everything you know and love you win this case or that shit sack of a company you work for is going to be gone!!!!!!!!!!!  If enough of these go through the authorities will have no choice but to do their own criminal investigations.  This has the potential to get real good.

This part was special:
“I think it’s pretty disingenuous to say it’s [Meissner’s] fault,” he told Ars. “If he had never e-mailed, what were they going to do? Were they the kind of people that were going to keep $63,000? It’s funny, the blame-shifting game they’re playing. I find it distasteful, the lack of responsibility.”

Funniest part is the answer to the question is absofuckinglutely YES of course they would have LOLOLOLOLOL.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/02/new-lawsuit-against-bitcoin-miner-manufacturer-alleges-fraud-negligence/

All of this is my opinion though!

bfl will declare bankruptcy and dissolve before the end of 2014

I purchased 40 "chip credits" for Butterfly Labs in hopes that I would be able to use it with the company. I was not aware of it's restrictions until after I had already purchased the credits. Namely, these are specific to ordering ASIC chips that are not being produced.

Part of the reason I bought them was that I was enthusiastic about the company's role in the bitcoin community. Since then my hopes have diminished.

The company soon 'vanished' all trace of there own manifested virtual currency with no explanation on the decision. One starts to question the sincerity of a company producing virtual currency generating machines if they cannot honor one they have direct control over.

Through the entire experience I learned two important things:
1. I am an idiot.
2. Do not trust company's on faith.

In addition, there "pre-release" products are only explained that "others do it too", and yet I have seen many others that do not simply hold onto money for months as a reason not to produce a product. I also feel there product is of poor quality due to highly variant hash rates. It is publically not recommended to use them on p2pool due to there high latency (slow network communication).

I am posting this in hopes that the following will prevent at least $100 from being spent on products from this company. At that point I will consider this a closed case. I have since purchased bitcoin equipment after first researching it's pros and cons, and feel confident that I am making the right decision in boycotting the company.

Cheers.

achtung baby, the 18th is in .....   2 weeks !!!!

definition of the top producer:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bfl

Yawn.

You'll get it when you get it.

Hey Bick, show me these posts of mine where I am claiming this is a "great product".  It's sad that you have to resort to putting false words into peoples mouths.  I took you up on a wager you profferred on these forums, to whit: Show you proof of a Monarch purchase and you would buy $2800 in BTC and see who was ahead in 3 months time.  I showed you proof I purchased on Black Friday and you bought $160 of Friecoin instead of $2800 of BTC and crowed over your great investment.

Here it is, Feb 3rd, the coin you bragged had hit $.23 has dropped to ~$.048 and you refuse to comment on it.  *IF* you had bought BTC as you stated you would, you'd be holding 2.03BTC, the same as I used to purchase my Monarch, and it'd only be worth ~$1800 today.  I can understand your not wanting to talk about your losses, you have a reputation to uphold.

Dropt... I appreciate you didn't ask about the Wasp Hive considering the topic was Bitcoin Miners Sue BUTTERFLY Labs.

---

He won't be getting anything in February or March that is a certainty given his spot in line. If he does obviously his steadfast support in these forums is his payment for a beta version of a slapped together and untested Monarch or maybe he will get a lab version that never leaves the bench ala Luke Jr. Good luck I am pretty confident I will be reaping rewards from our design well before he mines a single Satoshi. There is a significant difference between his getting it when you get it and my insight into when we are going to have a development board up and hashing. Let us just say we started later and we will ride a much better design wave vs. a one off loser like the Monarch that was and still is over priced and will unlikely return anything other than heartache to anyone that ordered one expecting October delivery.

My guess Late Q3 before the majority are "shipped". Get ready BFL more lawsuits to come. For someone so adamant this is a great product he only "bought" a single 300 Gh/s Black Friday special does that sound like a real supportive fanboy BFL customer there? Guess he knows they won't make a dime unless he flips it on Ebay like Josh told some irate customers to do when they didn't get the super discount when sales started lagging bad.

No, you just parade around at BFL's defence whenever an opportunity presents itself.


I'm a miner, have been for over 2 years now.  I shouldn't have to point out why I care what each and every manufacturer is up to and whether they are meeting their projections or not.


Finally, a half decent response.  Thanks.  Any thoughts/input on why we've not heard anything from BFL after having received/posted their wire bonded Silicon?

1) Never rooted/cheered/whatever the company.  I tell trolls they are stupid, when they ARE stupid, but I'm not a cheerleader.
2) Since you DON'T have an order, why do YOU care?

Now, so as to 'not deflect':

1) The wafers are at the slicing facility and should be headed to the grading facility soon.  Considering all the pictures of prototypes, I'm thinking they have a board ready to go.
2) I would guess grading takes a week or so, so I'm thinking they'll have some to send to the company that will populate the boards.
3) From there I'd estimate it's a hop, ship and a jump to production.

So, "Where's *MY* Monarch?" , it's out there and will be ready soon.  I'll get it when I get it and not a moment sooner.

That's not an answer, that's a deflection.  So BFL's Monarch is still in the design phase?  The same phase where the Wasp people haven't taken any money?  The one where they were going to ship the "bullet run" cards in November? That's where you claim the Monarch's are?

I should hope you'll have your hands on a Monarch before a WASP considering they (Monarch) were supposed to be delivered months ago, that you and a bunch of other idiots found it viable to give BFL millions of dollars for R&D/NRE based on more of J. Zerlan's bullshit hopes, dreams, and expectations.  I absolutely expect that a bunch of people claiming to be "industry leaders" with millions in their budget to outperform a community driven project. 

If your only defence to BFL's Monarch failures is to beat the Wasp dead horse some more than maybe you're dumber than I thought.  To those of us who have nothing invested in either project you look like a fool pointing your finger at some community pseudo-open source project as your excuse as to why it's okay the horse you backed is failing yet again.

Just so we're clear:  I don't give a shit about Bicknellski's WASP project.  I did not ask about Bicknellski's WASP project, I asked about BFL's Monarch.  Don't deflect, where is the product?  Show me the successes of the company you're rooting for.  

  

Are you ingnorant or just plain stupid?  I did answer his question, I told him my Monarch was in the same place his WASP and HIVE are ATM.  I still bet I have my hands on a Monarch before I do on a WASP.

Taunts?

That is how he replies?

Lawsuit thoughts?

Monarch 4 months late thoughts?


Crickets yet again.

I'll be sure to be back in the BFL Monarch Order thread on 18 February when my deadline is for checking in on how much he and others have mined so far on their Monarchs.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3772046
 
My guess come February 18th he will have mined exactly 0 BTC. He will be waiting until March, April possibly May or later for a unit. At this point I am pretty happy he has no clue how to buy miners with at least a hope in hell of making it to market at a reasonable price and that are NOT chicken wired together and require you put it in a snowbank to get it working again or shipped with bottom of the barrel cheap and dangerous Chinese knock off PSU's that have almost burned down a house or nearly electrocuted a few people.

This guy like others is a paid shill for BFL and that is why he is on ignore with the rest of the liars that still support BFL. It is obvious to most the game they play is simply to deny deny deny when the proof is everywhere that they everyone of them lacks the basic ethics that are standard to most human beings. What takes REAL balls and REAL courage is to tell the truth and not be BOUGHT by BFL. Being a liar is pretty easy and the way of a coward or a sociopath I wonder which one he is?

Got a pic of bcp19 & Josh hangin out on a field trip 

I figured all of you washed up BFL shills had moved onto some other dead horse to beat.  Guess not.  I see you forgot to respond to the other poster's questions, so let me re-iterate.  Where's that Monarch of yours?

Here's another thought:  with that supposed intelligence of yours, why don't you branch out into other areas of bitcointalk so you don't come off as such a one-trick pony.

October, November, December, January and now February do you know where your Monarch is? 4 months behind initial estimates. I am sensing a pattern. Overpriced, 600 / 300 gh/s arriving in you get a goose egg on this product no matter what you say it is a dog of product that doesn't even have working chips yet. LOL.

Lawsuits.

FCC breathing down BFL's neck. Oh boy this year is going to be AWESOME.

I figured you'd be too chicken to man up yet again Bickski.

http://www.btcpedia.com/butterfly-labs-announces-monarch-mining-blade/

Are you asking why *I* don't want to comment on the lawsuit?  Cause if you are, then you are blind as well and stupid.  That lawsuit is a complete farse, the guy claims 150BTC/day which would only happen if he were the ONLY person to have added a pair of mini-rigs to the network back in May and discounts the fact that 10 months of people would have needed to get their orders for him to have his in hand. 

How many of those 'shares' to get into the collective did you sell?  While that's NOT a pre-order, that's funding.

Personally, what I find truly sad is that not only are you NOT taking the time and money to create your own ASIC design, you're not even planning on putting out a product at all!  You are merely going to sell a license to produce your invention and let others take on the burden of building them while you sit in the background and collect money.  Looks to me like you have all of the profit with none of the expense while the people who purchase a license from you have to pass that cost to their customers.

I also notice that you have changed your tune Bickski... I've not seen you mention TAPEOUT in a while, is that cause of all the egg on your face when the wafers were delivered to the slicing facility?  I'll bet you that I have a Monarch in my hands before I have one of your WASPs or HIVEs in them.

We have collected a lot of sweat equity and some funds from our members to cover all the development costs and we continue to work together with everyone in agreement that it is always working product first and foremost above 'ROLLOUT' or 'PRE-SALES'. It has to be working first and there is no shame in doing things the right way unlike BFL who has continually lied about production / shipping dates to customers. At this point there are no customers for our product and when we do have something working then we can talk about failure to deliver and the appropriate focus on customers and not the customers money like BFL has. When invited to hear our EE's speak the BFL shills didn't bother to come guess they were too busy.

We have taken 0$ or BTC from anyone outside the WPC.

Unlike BFL we are not leveraging the community to make us rich we are trying to do what is right. Product first then sales and delivery or in our case licensing. He might want to also mention the fact we are providing the design as open source hardware.

Funny eh and further why doesn't he want to comment on the LAWSUIT? I wonder why that is? Where is that Monarch you ordered?

Remind me, how many millions of dollars of pre-order funds has WASP collected?

Appears to be in the same place as your December WASp rollout.

I am going to guess BFL's strategy will be to either delay this as long as humanly possible and then settle and gag this guy or settle and gag him ASAP.  I also guess BFL never wants this to see the inside of a court room.  However if both sides dig in for a battle it will extremely interesting to see what discovery will bring to the surface 

Where is that Monarch you ordered?




Laughable.

ROFLMAO!  This guy thinks he'd have made 150 BTC per day from a March order.  Damn, he must have some good drugs.  "Gee, there's 10 months of people BEFORE me who ordered this, yet they won't affect the difficulty one bit".  This is the sad part of BTC miners... they ALL think they'd have been the only one to order and get the gear when they figure their "losses".

Josh care to comment publicly on this case which you are damn sure aware of?

Please make your comment for the RECORD.


Now I have something to do with all the screen prints from the BFL forum.....


Dear Mr. Flynn.....

The article totally forgot to mention that BFL publicly states its customers are monumental assholes that no one gives a shit about.

Couldn't happen to a better company.

It reads "[b] considered [/b] to be one of the top producers of Bitcoin mining equipment is headed to court."

LOL I seeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee   but at least some has the cajones to sue the "least reliable ASIC company" in the world.

Top producer??? Since when? Most everyone here will disagree with that.  They are the top producer of creating discontent.

We had teams produce equipment using BFL chips faster than BFL was able to... Lol

"A local company considered to be one of the top producers of Bitcoin mining equipment is headed to court."

If the first sentence is BS, how can one trust anything else the article says?

what do you mean ?(

The first sentence of the article is wrong. I stopped reading right there.

Great read to anyone who's a fan of Butterfly Labs and Josh/Inababa.

Leawood-based BF Labs Inc., better known as Butterfly Labs, has spent the past year defending itself to angry customers who preordered equipment that took months longer to ship than the company promised.


http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/news/2014/01/15/leawood-bitcoin-company-faces-lawsuit.html?ana=e_kan_rdup&s=newsletter&ed=2014-01-16