Many lives depend on Bitcoin mining, and asking for 30% is like stabbing them to death, miners always decide to keep mining even when Bitcoin is not profitable, they believe in its future value so they have no choice but to hold, now with this tax thing I doubt they will have an easy way out.
Biden is just a Bitcoin hater, nothing more or less, I hope someone better switches his place shortly and that the new president will have mercy on Bitcoin miners, the united states always has a bigger role in Bitcoin and its adoption, they are the number one followed by China, it is so unfair to charge them for tax this high, so inhuman.
If they are worried about the bad Bitcoin miners who use illegal ways to mine Bitcoin they can get them arrested just like what China did, as far as Bitcoin miners are paying for electricity it should all be fine, this is why I believe that it is more than just the electricity, they want miners to quit.
I thank God that I am not in the United States, I have always wished to visit or live there but as a Bitcoin miner myself I can't do it, the hate is way too much.
Topic: Biden is asking Congress to kill the American Bitcoin mining industry (Read 554 times)
May 02, 2024, 02:37:34 AM
The DAME tax has been proposed by the Biden administration, to quote, "make miners pay their fair share of the costs imposed on local communities and the environment.”
Given this statement, at the surface level it seems the tax is driven by the energy consumption of proof-of-work mining, primarily Bitcoin. From the US governments perspective, they may be concerned about the power consumption on their energy grid being used for activities that see as non-productive, i.e. mining cryptocurrency.
However, if they only concerned with energy consumption, they could have defined new policy and restrictions on how much energy consumption can be used for mining. Instead they propose a tax, which will definitely make mining less profitable, and dampen the progression of the industry. I also wonder, if the Bitcoin mining industry was decimated in the US, how would that impact fees for Bitcoin transactions?
The reality is, the U.S. Government like many government agencies worldwide see cryptocurrency, particular Bitcoin, as a threat to their economic system. They won't outright ban Bitcoin, as they still see it as an effective way to raise revenue (e.g. asset seizures and sale of Bitcoin by CIA, FBI, etc).
Given this statement, at the surface level it seems the tax is driven by the energy consumption of proof-of-work mining, primarily Bitcoin. From the US governments perspective, they may be concerned about the power consumption on their energy grid being used for activities that see as non-productive, i.e. mining cryptocurrency.
However, if they only concerned with energy consumption, they could have defined new policy and restrictions on how much energy consumption can be used for mining. Instead they propose a tax, which will definitely make mining less profitable, and dampen the progression of the industry. I also wonder, if the Bitcoin mining industry was decimated in the US, how would that impact fees for Bitcoin transactions?
The reality is, the U.S. Government like many government agencies worldwide see cryptocurrency, particular Bitcoin, as a threat to their economic system. They won't outright ban Bitcoin, as they still see it as an effective way to raise revenue (e.g. asset seizures and sale of Bitcoin by CIA, FBI, etc).
If they were actually concerned about taxes and energy consumption, they would've made Big Oil pay up a fairer percentage in taxes a long time ago. But they are not actually interested in doing either of those. Read between the lines - these people want to completely centralize Bitcoin mining so that one day some of these pools can be bought up or acquired by energy companies and become conglomerates.
Meanwhile they have useful idiots like Greenpeace to repeat their nonsense like this: https://twitter.com/greenpeaceusa/status/1784976054677090450
May 02, 2024, 01:53:55 AM
He is not looking to kill it, he is trying to impose the DAME tax, DAME means Digital Asset Mining Energy, and the idea is to start with this tax from 10%, then 20% in the next year and 30% on the 3rd year.
So, the plan isn't to ban the mining, but with those huge taxes, no one will want to mine there. Is not a good business. But i don't think congress will let that tax come to live, and if it does, they will stop it before the 3rd year, because other way people will start creating illegal farms.
Don't you think people who are mining bitcoin don't mind relocate to the country that is more favorable because I believe this isn't the sole purpose because for him to keep increase tax every single year shows that it's indirect killing therefore when it's much on people those who don't find it favorable don't quitting, and if he sees that people still instigating then he would have to turn the other way round just to make sure he entirely eliminate it. So, the plan isn't to ban the mining, but with those huge taxes, no one will want to mine there. Is not a good business. But i don't think congress will let that tax come to live, and if it does, they will stop it before the 3rd year, because other way people will start creating illegal farms.
What they do is somehow power tripping since they really want to eliminate some industry that they maybe don't understand or hard to control that's why this people throw up something bad implementation and leave those people doing good business no choice but to swallow what they want even if this is against on their will.
I am not going to claim to be any kind of a hard politics expert, but sometimes the legislation and/or policy proposals can be considered as a kind of negotiations position, and yeah, many of us know that the US Govt has tendencies to act like bullies, and that posturing has probably gotten worse and worse and worse over the years, including that it is a kind of way to project power, but at the same time some of the power projection attempts are not able to be successful in terms of either being put into an actual policy or even having abilities to enforce - while we also know that divide and conquer kinds of enforcement is not an uncommon practice.
Yeah hard to say some word about them since maybe we will get in trouble for expressing ourselves towards them but obviously we can really see how they take action on some industry they want to control and they usually make those people think that they don't have the choice to follow their orders since they are more powerful than those normal businessman who operates in their country. That's why sometimes it always came up on my mind that its better for those businesses which have been put on heavy pressure by US government to leave that country since there are lots of countries can accommodate them and they are free to run their business without worrying that they might get hit again by bully government officials. People are just afraid but they need to step up on this since they will not get good justice if this people will be silent on what their government act towards those industries that they want to manipulate. But I know this is hard since they are so powerful and they can easily eliminated if government will drop unfavorable judgement or decisions towards them.
May 01, 2024, 06:59:08 PM
I am not going to claim to be any kind of a hard politics expert, but sometimes the legislation and/or policy proposals can be considered as a kind of negotiations position, and yeah, many of us know that the US Govt has tendencies to act like bullies, and that posturing has probably gotten worse and worse and worse over the years,
Actually the China government had done in a past and stop their mining company in their country.The reason behind the China’s move was to reduce their population to get away from the crypto involvement in the form of cryptocurrency trading ban and the mining of bitcoin was banned.The current price was bear due to this news,I am confused now.If the bear market because of this news,we can’t expect the huge price drop from the 60k mark to 50k mark in the shortest period of time.The United States had influencing the bitcoin price market most of the time.
including that it is a kind of way to project power, but at the same time some of the power projection attempts are not able to be successful in terms of either being put into an actual policy or even having abilities to enforce - while we also know that divide and conquer kinds of enforcement is not an uncommon practice.
The power consumption for the mining will be huge,but the fact is not because of power consumption the government of United States.The government uses the holding power minimum for the transactions.Because the economy of the government was mostly dependent on the bitcoin for now in many countries indirectly.The US government want to capitalise their people money from bitcoin mining to the other sources was the reason for this move by the US government.
May 01, 2024, 03:10:35 PM
He is not looking to kill it, he is trying to impose the DAME tax, DAME means Digital Asset Mining Energy, and the idea is to start with this tax from 10%, then 20% in the next year and 30% on the 3rd year.
So, the plan isn't to ban the mining, but with those huge taxes, no one will want to mine there. Is not a good business. But i don't think congress will let that tax come to live, and if it does, they will stop it before the 3rd year, because other way people will start creating illegal farms.
Don't you think people who are mining bitcoin don't mind relocate to the country that is more favorable because I believe this isn't the sole purpose because for him to keep increase tax every single year shows that it's indirect killing therefore when it's much on people those who don't find it favorable don't quitting, and if he sees that people still instigating then he would have to turn the other way round just to make sure he entirely eliminate it. So, the plan isn't to ban the mining, but with those huge taxes, no one will want to mine there. Is not a good business. But i don't think congress will let that tax come to live, and if it does, they will stop it before the 3rd year, because other way people will start creating illegal farms.
What they do is somehow power tripping since they really want to eliminate some industry that they maybe don't understand or hard to control that's why this people throw up something bad implementation and leave those people doing good business no choice but to swallow what they want even if this is against on their will.
I am not going to claim to be any kind of a hard politics expert, but sometimes the legislation and/or policy proposals can be considered as a kind of negotiations position, and yeah, many of us know that the US Govt has tendencies to act like bullies, and that posturing has probably gotten worse and worse and worse over the years, including that it is a kind of way to project power, but at the same time some of the power projection attempts are not able to be successful in terms of either being put into an actual policy or even having abilities to enforce - while we also know that divide and conquer kinds of enforcement is not an uncommon practice.
May 01, 2024, 04:56:22 AM
He is not looking to kill it, he is trying to impose the DAME tax, DAME means Digital Asset Mining Energy, and the idea is to start with this tax from 10%, then 20% in the next year and 30% on the 3rd year.
So, the plan isn't to ban the mining, but with those huge taxes, no one will want to mine there. Is not a good business. But i don't think congress will let that tax come to live, and if it does, they will stop it before the 3rd year, because other way people will start creating illegal farms.
Don't you think people who are mining bitcoin don't mind relocate to the country that is more favorable because I believe this isn't the sole purpose because for him to keep increase tax every single year shows that it's indirect killing therefore when it's much on people those who don't find it favorable don't quitting, and if he sees that people still instigating then he would have to turn the other way round just to make sure he entirely eliminate it. So, the plan isn't to ban the mining, but with those huge taxes, no one will want to mine there. Is not a good business. But i don't think congress will let that tax come to live, and if it does, they will stop it before the 3rd year, because other way people will start creating illegal farms.
Its like he say take it or leave it since you don't have a choice since I am the one who have authority to implement something that I like to happen. That's why I think maybe its good for miners to leave on a country that doesn't give any favorable chance to do a legal business. There should be a country that best accept this operation and for sure for migrating they can escape those heavy regulations made by those abusive government.
What they do is somehow power tripping since they really want to eliminate some industry that they maybe don't understand or hard to control that's why this people throw up something bad implementation and leave those people doing good business no choice but to swallow what they want even if this is against on their will.
April 29, 2024, 05:42:48 PM
The DAME tax has been proposed by the Biden administration, to quote, "make miners pay their fair share of the costs imposed on local communities and the environment.”
Given this statement, at the surface level it seems the tax is driven by the energy consumption of proof-of-work mining, primarily Bitcoin. From the US governments perspective, they may be concerned about the power consumption on their energy grid being used for activities that see as non-productive, i.e. mining cryptocurrency.
However, if they only concerned with energy consumption, they could have defined new policy and restrictions on how much energy consumption can be used for mining. Instead they propose a tax, which will definitely make mining less profitable, and dampen the progression of the industry. I also wonder, if the Bitcoin mining industry was decimated in the US, how would that impact fees for Bitcoin transactions?
The reality is, the U.S. Government like many government agencies worldwide see cryptocurrency, particular Bitcoin, as a threat to their economic system. They won't outright ban Bitcoin, as they still see it as an effective way to raise revenue (e.g. asset seizures and sale of Bitcoin by CIA, FBI, etc).
To answer your question though, how will this effect the upcoming election? Very little.
Whilst the US accounts for 37.8% of Bitcoin mining, the overall number of Bitcoin miners in terms of vote count against the entire US population is almost nil. One thing to note is that the DAME tax is still only in a proposal state, if it was proven to pass than I believe more investors and traders of Bitcoin would be concerned as the shrinkage of the Bitcoin mining industry in the US would definitely have an impact on price, demand, and adoption.
Given this statement, at the surface level it seems the tax is driven by the energy consumption of proof-of-work mining, primarily Bitcoin. From the US governments perspective, they may be concerned about the power consumption on their energy grid being used for activities that see as non-productive, i.e. mining cryptocurrency.
However, if they only concerned with energy consumption, they could have defined new policy and restrictions on how much energy consumption can be used for mining. Instead they propose a tax, which will definitely make mining less profitable, and dampen the progression of the industry. I also wonder, if the Bitcoin mining industry was decimated in the US, how would that impact fees for Bitcoin transactions?
The reality is, the U.S. Government like many government agencies worldwide see cryptocurrency, particular Bitcoin, as a threat to their economic system. They won't outright ban Bitcoin, as they still see it as an effective way to raise revenue (e.g. asset seizures and sale of Bitcoin by CIA, FBI, etc).
To answer your question though, how will this effect the upcoming election? Very little.
Whilst the US accounts for 37.8% of Bitcoin mining, the overall number of Bitcoin miners in terms of vote count against the entire US population is almost nil. One thing to note is that the DAME tax is still only in a proposal state, if it was proven to pass than I believe more investors and traders of Bitcoin would be concerned as the shrinkage of the Bitcoin mining industry in the US would definitely have an impact on price, demand, and adoption.
April 29, 2024, 05:35:35 PM
He is not looking to kill it, he is trying to impose the DAME tax, DAME means Digital Asset Mining Energy, and the idea is to start with this tax from 10%, then 20% in the next year and 30% on the 3rd year.
So, the plan isn't to ban the mining, but with those huge taxes, no one will want to mine there. Is not a good business. But i don't think congress will let that tax come to live, and if it does, they will stop it before the 3rd year, because other way people will start creating illegal farms.
Don't you think people who are mining bitcoin don't mind relocate to the country that is more favorable because I believe this isn't the sole purpose because for him to keep increase tax every single year shows that it's indirect killing therefore when it's much on people those who don't find it favorable don't quitting, and if he sees that people still instigating then he would have to turn the other way round just to make sure he entirely eliminate it. So, the plan isn't to ban the mining, but with those huge taxes, no one will want to mine there. Is not a good business. But i don't think congress will let that tax come to live, and if it does, they will stop it before the 3rd year, because other way people will start creating illegal farms.
April 29, 2024, 04:53:50 PM
Why single out BTC / crypto with it's electric consumption ?
Because crypto competes with other investments and the USD that the government and the banking system they're in bed with don't control, and right now the US government seems to be very anti-crypto under the guise of combating money laundering and all that stuff.
April 27, 2024, 12:00:42 AM
As for Trump vs Biden - They are not really who I want in power from either side for many reasons, but here we are, that's all we got .... right ?
It is Adolf Hitler vs Darth Vader for president.... again!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFA-rOls8YA
April 26, 2024, 02:32:41 PM
Now, before I get into deep water with any moderators here, this topic is not here to start a fight, so please keep it on topic.
Looking for everyone's thoughts on this, please keep the political content to a minimum.
This story got posted today....
https://cointelegraph.com/news/biden-is-asking-congress-to-kill-the-american-bitcoin-mining-industry
So, lets hear your thoughts on this and if your in the USA, which way will you vote in November ?
I think many people in USA will have an alternative in the person of Trump, because he has made promises concerning cryptocurrencies and although it is a political plot, he mentioned his support for the crypto community. Looking for everyone's thoughts on this, please keep the political content to a minimum.
This story got posted today....
https://cointelegraph.com/news/biden-is-asking-congress-to-kill-the-american-bitcoin-mining-industry
So, lets hear your thoughts on this and if your in the USA, which way will you vote in November ?
Also, there was a time I read about some mining companies in the U.S moving their old mining machines to Colorado springs for refurbishment, and possible resale to investors and miners willing to own these machines and operate them in more economic friendly regions with cheaper electricity tarrifs and data consumption cost. Infact the goal was just to move to areas where it would be cheaper to manage a mining farm.
Whatever Biden is doing is only a bump in the road because the American community already regulates Crypto currency and if they decide to tax it at 30%, then there might be an issue of massive relocation from the country and a drop in the macro economy, since many companies accept it already and would find it hard to stop using it because of taxes.
April 26, 2024, 01:33:23 PM
This old fella has already screwed up everything and as per my understanding he is trying to kill the mining industry without actually killing it that's my implementing high taxes for mining to an extend that mining wouldn't be profitable after the taxes which will push users to stop mining. We cannot expect any positive news from them but atleast they should be neutral rather than targeting the mining and crypto ecosystem.
April 26, 2024, 11:39:29 AM
He is not looking to kill it, he is trying to impose the DAME tax, DAME means Digital Asset Mining Energy, and the idea is to start with this tax from 10%, then 20% in the next year and 30% on the 3rd year.
So, the plan isn't to ban the mining, but with those huge taxes, no one will want to mine there. Is not a good business. But i don't think congress will let that tax come to live, and if it does, they will stop it before the 3rd year, because other way people will start creating illegal farms.
So, the plan isn't to ban the mining, but with those huge taxes, no one will want to mine there. Is not a good business. But i don't think congress will let that tax come to live, and if it does, they will stop it before the 3rd year, because other way people will start creating illegal farms.
Yep, the "asset industry" is not at all the mining industry. It is being, as usual, made into a partisan thing and all that crap. My guess is that the news might lower the price of electricity by less than 1% if any??
I think it is contrary to a good practice to selectively tax a certain use of energy - like for example taxing selectively the land for cattle (cows) because these are harmful for the environment (should I say to a greater extent than bitcoin?) or you could tax the energy used in producing diesel or gasoline cars for the same reason...but my favourite would be to tax the energy consumption of VISA and Mastercard, including the one used to take the employees to the office, etc...
https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=61364#:~:text=The%20CBECI%20estimates%20that%20global,to%20have%20been%2027%2C400%20TWh.
Quote
The CBECI estimates that global electricity usage associated with Bitcoin mining ranged from 67 TWh to 240 TWh in 2023, with a point estimate of 120 TWh. The International Energy Agency estimated global consumption of electricity during 2023 to have been 27,400 TWh.10 So, the CBECI estimates put electricity supporting Bitcoin mining in 2023 at about 0.2% to 0.9% of global demand for electricity
0.2% is quite a bit of energy to be honest.
April 26, 2024, 09:55:16 AM
Thank you to all that have posted a reply here, glad to see some of you have "criticized" me on my first post of this thread, you did what I wanted, you voiced your opinion without causing a fight here, I congratulate you all in that respect.
It's been an interesting read with all that's been said and posted here, insightful to say the least !
As for Trump vs Biden - They are not really who I want in power from either side for many reasons, but here we are, that's all we got .... right ?
Once again, thanks !
It's been an interesting read with all that's been said and posted here, insightful to say the least !
As for Trump vs Biden - They are not really who I want in power from either side for many reasons, but here we are, that's all we got .... right ?
Once again, thanks !
April 26, 2024, 08:28:16 AM
Oh god, this again!
It's not tax on mining, it's a tax on electricity used, it's 10% on what you pay for electricity!
Riot is paying between 2.5 cents and 4 cents per kwh depending on their location, this tax will be added next year to rise the price to 2.75 cents per kwh to 4.4 cents/kwh.
The halving has split the revenue in half, even a 100% tax on electricity wouldn't be as bad as the current drop in revenue!
How about all of you get honest and when you look at your electricity bill with 13cents/kwh or 40 cents per kWh, do you keep saying that miners should only pay 3 cents per kwh?
I had to quit mining because of high traffic and if it weren't for bulk electricity plan I wouldn't be able to mine profitably even with the near last generation, but some of you think that an increase of a quarter of a cent per kWh would bankrupt an industry!
It's not tax on mining, it's a tax on electricity used, it's 10% on what you pay for electricity!
Riot is paying between 2.5 cents and 4 cents per kwh depending on their location, this tax will be added next year to rise the price to 2.75 cents per kwh to 4.4 cents/kwh.
The halving has split the revenue in half, even a 100% tax on electricity wouldn't be as bad as the current drop in revenue!
How about all of you get honest and when you look at your electricity bill with 13cents/kwh or 40 cents per kWh, do you keep saying that miners should only pay 3 cents per kwh?
I had to quit mining because of high traffic and if it weren't for bulk electricity plan I wouldn't be able to mine profitably even with the near last generation, but some of you think that an increase of a quarter of a cent per kWh would bankrupt an industry!
April 25, 2024, 10:00:55 PM
Why single out BTC / crypto with it's electric consumption ?
Because crypto competes with other investments and the USD that the government and the banking system they're in bed with don't control, and right now the US government seems to be very anti-crypto under the guise of combating money laundering and all that stuff.
Vote republican, that's all I have to say. Biden will be lucky if he doesn't die in office this term because of his age; imagine if he ran for re-election? He's just a puppet, and there are some seriously nasty people who've got their hands up his ass as far as crypto is concerned. Either way, republicans are generally for less government and are pro-business so that's the way I've always voted. Except for Trump that is, and his presidency didn't turn out to be the nuclear war armageddon that I thought would be the case.
Bitcoin went up 500% under Biden. Vote Democrat.
April 25, 2024, 09:34:16 PM
Why single out BTC / crypto with it's electric consumption ?
Because crypto competes with other investments and the USD that the government and the banking system they're in bed with don't control, and right now the US government seems to be very anti-crypto under the guise of combating money laundering and all that stuff.
Vote republican, that's all I have to say. Biden will be lucky if he doesn't die in office this term because of his age; imagine if he ran for re-election? He's just a puppet, and there are some seriously nasty people who've got their hands up his ass as far as crypto is concerned. Either way, republicans are generally for less government and are pro-business so that's the way I've always voted. Except for Trump that is, and his presidency didn't turn out to be the nuclear war armageddon that I thought would be the case.
April 25, 2024, 09:09:50 PM
What if they rig the election again and gets in again. They couldn’t completely ban it
April 25, 2024, 07:16:32 AM
These anti-crypto takes by Biden are stupid. He should know that crypto is a very much booming industry and that it's going to benefit other countries massively if America kicks them all out.
This is the reason why Biden wanted to implement taxes to the industry, for the US government to gain huge income from the industry. Whether it is bullshit or not is subjective. For the eyes of the non-crypto people, it should be but for the miners, it is somehow suppressive.
Most large american miners are running as corporations now, so this is essentially a double tax. Capital gains + the usual business income tax.
And I don't know how the feds think they are going to extract a lot of money from the smaller hobbyist miners and the small farms, especially after the halving made them way less profitable. It's probably no bigger than $10-$100 million/year in the US that these small miners are making in total.
April 25, 2024, 06:51:00 AM
Such tax rate will effectively destroy the entire US crypto mining industry.
Only well managed Bitcoin mining firms will survive this tax increase. It is just a conscious attempt to choke the American mining industry and also a means to exploit them. Biden shouldn't use China as an example because the US is more democratic. American legislators are not rubber stamp like their Chinese counterparts. As we have seen senators like Senator Cynthia Lummis, and Robert F. Kennedy Jr have already began to oppose the proposal.
So, lets hear your thoughts on this and if your in the USA, which way will you vote in November ?
Do you think Donald Trump will be more friendly to Bitcoin miners? He has never been a fan of Bitcoin and might also consider the same policy if elected. Choosing between Biden and Trump is like the devil and the Deep Blue Sea. However Trump is an unapologetic racist and I don't like home for that, hence Biden will have my vote.
April 25, 2024, 06:47:14 AM
He is not looking to kill it, he is trying to impose the DAME tax, DAME means Digital Asset Mining Energy, and the idea is to start with this tax from 10%, then 20% in the next year and 30% on the 3rd year.
So, the plan isn't to ban the mining, but with those huge taxes, no one will want to mine there. Is not a good business. But i don't think congress will let that tax come to live, and if it does, they will stop it before the 3rd year, because other way people will start creating illegal farms.
So, the plan isn't to ban the mining, but with those huge taxes, no one will want to mine there. Is not a good business. But i don't think congress will let that tax come to live, and if it does, they will stop it before the 3rd year, because other way people will start creating illegal farms.
So Biden had decided to milk the Bitcoin mining Industry in the US while slowly killing the industry due to the imposed yearly increment of tax. It is not a surprise because we have seen Biden eagerly wanting to regulate the Bitcoin industry and take the opportunity to profit from it.
So let us see if the US Congress will support these regulations suggested by Biden.
These anti-crypto takes by Biden are stupid. He should know that crypto is a very much booming industry and that it's going to benefit other countries massively if America kicks them all out.
This is the reason why Biden wanted to implement taxes to the industry, for the US government to gain huge income from the industry. Whether it is bullshit or not is subjective. For the eyes of the non-crypto people, it should be but for the miners, it is somehow suppressive.
April 25, 2024, 06:42:57 AM
So, lets hear your thoughts on this and if your in the USA, which way will you vote in November ?
So this is the kind of bullshit that makes people vote for Trump (a soon-to-be convicted felon) even though he has no place near politics after what he pulled on 2021.
These anti-crypto takes by Biden are stupid. He should know that crypto is a very much booming industry and that it's going to benefit other countries massively if America kicks them all out.
And yet all those people are frothing in the mouth about "blockchain". As if you can have a blockchain without any cryptocurrency in it.
April 25, 2024, 06:36:16 AM
China is a political rival of the USA, so citing their policies as an example just doesn't sound good from the mouth of the US president. The USA is among the most responsible countries when it comes to climate change, so they do need to work on implementing harsher policies. But I believe in a comprehensive approach, targeting all big consumers of energy that (and this part is very important) comes largely from ecologically harmful sources, instead of fighting the mining industry specifically. It would be both more fair and more effective.
April 25, 2024, 06:10:51 AM
They pay a huge electric bill that supports power generation and people in the plant. They rent/buy the building, They pay taxes the sewage and water bills. In Texas they burn tons of excess generation that they pay for and doesn't get scuttled into "reactors" that burn of excess power into heat. During times of high grid demand the idle the machines out. These jobs pay higher than Taco Bell (nothing wrong with that job) so it's not 1 to 1. Besides they are pretty benign neighbors.
All business in one way or another do this. The additional services needed to support it. Using Taco Bell, the truck driver who gets a couple of extra drop offs a week doing the bulk food delivery. The waste oil recycling people. Probably another dozen other things. BUT politicians like to point to direct job creation. The secondary and tertiary numbers are harder to quantify. But saying I helped build this car dealer that will have 8 mechanics, a dozen sales people and all the other support staff is easy to show. AND people understand car dealership or Taco Bell.
It's just the way it is.
https://youtu.be/4cF6D8zDa9U?t=13
-Dave
April 24, 2024, 02:21:46 PM
Yes and no .....
Why ?
New York (state) banned crypto mining...
`The New York Senate passed Bill S6486D banning cryptocurrency mining in the state when relying on carbon-based energy sources to power their operation.`
Why ?
New York (state) banned crypto mining...
`The New York Senate passed Bill S6486D banning cryptocurrency mining in the state when relying on carbon-based energy sources to power their operation.`
Just want to make the point that New York DID NOT ban mining.
1) If you had a mining facility up and running nothing changed*
2) If you wanted to setup a new mine using 100% renewable nothing changed
The * being that renewals of permits in the 2 years period that the bill is in effect for might be an issue...except for these 2 facts
1) There were 2 (3?) mines that were using old power plants that were specifically mentioned and exempt from the regualtion
and
2) There are / were no permit renewals coming though in the 2 years from the signing of the bill.
Unrelated but important a lot of places don't want large scale mining facilities due to the fact that they suck down a lot of power and don't supply many jobs.
Trust me if you had a ratio of 1 job per 100 miners you would have states clamoring to get them. But one of the ones upstate had something like 7500 miners and 15 full time workers and a couple of part time people. The local Taco Bell had more staff.....
-Dave
They pay a huge electric bill that supports power generation and people in the plant. They rent/buy the building, They pay taxes the sewage and water bills. In Texas they burn tons of excess generation that they pay for and doesn't get scuttled into "reactors" that burn of excess power into heat. During times of high grid demand the idle the machines out. These jobs pay higher than Taco Bell (nothing wrong with that job) so it's not 1 to 1. Besides they are pretty benign neighbors.
April 24, 2024, 06:19:25 AM
Yes and no .....
Why ?
New York (state) banned crypto mining...
`The New York Senate passed Bill S6486D banning cryptocurrency mining in the state when relying on carbon-based energy sources to power their operation.`
Why ?
New York (state) banned crypto mining...
`The New York Senate passed Bill S6486D banning cryptocurrency mining in the state when relying on carbon-based energy sources to power their operation.`
Just want to make the point that New York DID NOT ban mining.
1) If you had a mining facility up and running nothing changed*
2) If you wanted to setup a new mine using 100% renewable nothing changed
The * being that renewals of permits in the 2 years period that the bill is in effect for might be an issue...except for these 2 facts
1) There were 2 (3?) mines that were using old power plants that were specifically mentioned and exempt from the regualtion
and
2) There are / were no permit renewals coming though in the 2 years from the signing of the bill.
Unrelated but important a lot of places don't want large scale mining facilities due to the fact that they suck down a lot of power and don't supply many jobs.
Trust me if you had a ratio of 1 job per 100 miners you would have states clamoring to get them. But one of the ones upstate had something like 7500 miners and 15 full time workers and a couple of part time people. The local Taco Bell had more staff.....
-Dave
April 24, 2024, 02:22:00 AM
He is not looking to kill it, he is trying to impose the DAME tax, DAME means Digital Asset Mining Energy, and the idea is to start with this tax from 10%, then 20% in the next year and 30% on the 3rd year.
So, the plan isn't to ban the mining, but with those huge taxes, no one will want to mine there. Is not a good business. But i don't think congress will let that tax come to live, and if it does, they will stop it before the 3rd year, because other way people will start creating illegal farms.
Your idea is definitely correct! Biden can make a decision on his own, but it has to go through many steps in the form of a bill, in which case congress won't approve it. Maybe allow more taxation according to you 20% or 30% etc. But if so then the black market mining will increase which may deprive the US administration of huge amount of tax collection.So, the plan isn't to ban the mining, but with those huge taxes, no one will want to mine there. Is not a good business. But i don't think congress will let that tax come to live, and if it does, they will stop it before the 3rd year, because other way people will start creating illegal farms.
Despite all these odds, the impact on Bitcoin's price is minimal and its price will cross the mandatory target of $100k very soon. Bitcoin price is at the highest level in the last 200 days.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
April 24, 2024, 01:24:45 AM
-snip-
So, lets hear your thoughts on this and if your in the USA, which way will you vote in November ?
Your question seems to create self-centeredness and division, and to what, Bitcoin mining? So, you mean this is the right place and avenue to ask for an election view? For me, it is off. You see, people often like to fake things simply because they want to exploit your weakness and gain from you, they could say or do whatever will please you just to achieve their aims. But for this administration to be natural enough and not mind the election coming to do what they believe is right for the US people is heroic on its own. Unlike what Donald Trump is doing now trying to campaign in line with people's minds whether it is the right thing or not, that's when you see people hailing him. It's all politics, it's all selfishness, just a desperate attempt to get there.So, lets hear your thoughts on this and if your in the USA, which way will you vote in November ?
I see no reason why it should be mentioned in tax-related discussions like this. After all, the gradual tax initiative will be subjected to the House and not Biden alone, which means it is not Biden's government alone doing this if it eventually goes through, there will be a vote. And this tax is for the good of the American people, I wonder if it is Biden alone who will benefit from this.
Needless to say, miners are not even worth fighting for, let them remit part of what they earn too.
April 23, 2024, 01:52:06 PM
If other states follow their lead, which some have, it's game over for most unless you can find another power source that gets round the ban or move to another state that's crypto friendly.
There are states that are also refusing to give out permits / renew them for mining farms as well.
There are states that are also refusing to give out permits / renew them for mining farms as well.
And there are states like Texas that allow mining, oppose any bitcoin mining bans, openly invite miners to the state and claim that miners help stabilize the grid.
Biden is shooting himself in the knee before election, or rather is being thrown under the bus by someone, probably Warren, because Biden doesn't understand bitcoin and doesn't know if mining is good or bad. He repeats what he's being told by his staff who claim to know the technology and have a clear (negative) stance.
Biden seems to underestimate how many people support bitcoin in the US and doing this will not buy him more votes, but I guess he wants to be in opposition to Trump who said some good things about bitcoin.
Whatever happens, people will do what they always do - move the business elsewhere. Not all states will impose the tax if the bill ever passes (which I doubt it will) and states like Texas or Virginia will continue to support bitcoin.
Looks like the attack on bitcoin to stop the bull market is ongoing.
April 23, 2024, 12:37:31 PM
Now, before I get into deep water with any moderators here, this topic is not here to start a fight, so please keep it on topic.
Looking for everyone's thoughts on this, please keep the political content to a minimum.
This story got posted today....
https://cointelegraph.com/news/biden-is-asking-congress-to-kill-the-american-bitcoin-mining-industry
So, lets hear your thoughts on this and if your in the USA, which way will you vote in November ?
From the article;Looking for everyone's thoughts on this, please keep the political content to a minimum.
This story got posted today....
https://cointelegraph.com/news/biden-is-asking-congress-to-kill-the-american-bitcoin-mining-industry
So, lets hear your thoughts on this and if your in the USA, which way will you vote in November ?
Quote
President Biden is asking Congress to take aim at the American Bitcoin mining industry — and he's citing China as an example for the United States to follow.
To the best of my knowledge, US and China can be said to be economic rivals. US does not do something because China has done so, rather they will tend to do the opposite if possible. I strongly believe US liberty ideology and that is the reason I think bitcoin will continue to have a place in the United States economy.Well, op you asked we shouldn't be too political here. But I think users of US origin might want to take it more political.
April 23, 2024, 12:19:38 PM
Ever since this administration came into power, everything turned to shit, so this does not surprise ,one bit
Bitcoin is up 500% since Biden was elected.
April 23, 2024, 12:13:40 PM
Op lolz! You don't want a political argument but that your thread is purely political. American Government wants to imitate another country (China) behavior towards bitcoin. One thing they don't understand in this innovation is that it is because the other country openly said they are not interested in Bitcoin does not mean they're not interested and probably they just want to operate in the anonymity and investing in it from underground. And I don't think the congress will accept his request to ban bitcoin mining.
Op you don't even make small input on the topic and you just want everyone to read the article from the link. Which we don't even know if is not true. Your input was also needed.
Op you don't even make small input on the topic and you just want everyone to read the article from the link. Which we don't even know if is not true. Your input was also needed.
April 23, 2024, 11:39:30 AM
I really don’t understand how the usa is so against the use of bitcoin or just cryptocurrencies. You’d think a country that is focused with development and capitalism would be on board with using bitcoin. It is literally what they do best, isn’t it? Finance and tech.
So, lets hear your thoughts on this and if your in the USA, which way will you vote in November ?
You said to put the political content to a limit but with this question it’s basically impossible. You know that you can not just vote for one single factor only. I wouldn’t explain much but the question is difficult and almost impossible. 
April 23, 2024, 10:58:01 AM
He is not looking to kill it, he is trying to impose the DAME tax, DAME means Digital Asset Mining Energy, and the idea is to start with this tax from 10%, then 20% in the next year and 30% on the 3rd year.
So, the plan isn't to ban the mining, but with those huge taxes, no one will want to mine there. Is not a good business. But i don't think congress will let that tax come to live, and if it does, they will stop it before the 3rd year, because other way people will start creating illegal farms.
So, the plan isn't to ban the mining, but with those huge taxes, no one will want to mine there. Is not a good business. But i don't think congress will let that tax come to live, and if it does, they will stop it before the 3rd year, because other way people will start creating illegal farms.
That's same as killing! I see no difference!
30% tax rate is unreasonable. In my country, government has imposed 30% tax as well. As a result lot of domestic exchanges have gone into loss. A lot of people have resorted to P2P trading to stay outside of government radar.
Such tax rate will effectively destroy the entire US crypto mining industry.
April 23, 2024, 08:50:03 AM
Tax is theft and wielded as a weapon.
Biden doesn't give a rats ass about the environment or power use. It has been proven to be good to the environment ad nauseam.
He hates bitcoin and what it represents, part of his overall plan to kill the American economy and middle class.
His Chinese handlers killed it for the same reason and he is caring out their wishes here on many fronts.
Ray Charles can see this one.
Biden doesn't give a rats ass about the environment or power use. It has been proven to be good to the environment ad nauseam.
He hates bitcoin and what it represents, part of his overall plan to kill the American economy and middle class.
His Chinese handlers killed it for the same reason and he is caring out their wishes here on many fronts.
Ray Charles can see this one.
April 23, 2024, 04:59:04 AM
Ever since this administration came into power, everything turned to shit, so this does not surprise ,one bit
April 23, 2024, 04:20:16 AM
He is not looking to kill it, he is trying to impose the DAME tax, DAME means Digital Asset Mining Energy, and the idea is to start with this tax from 10%, then 20% in the next year and 30% on the 3rd year.
And each subsequent year increase the tax rate by 10% until it reaches 100%? 
Why are such “privileged” conditions created for mining? For example, the oil production tax is 0.5% (Kentucky) - 12.5% (Alaska). I assume that this is only part of the tax burden, but certainly not a total of 30%. 30% is an extortionate interest rate.
So, the plan isn't to ban the mining, but with those huge taxes, no one will want to mine there. Is not a good business. But i don't think congress will let that tax come to live, and if it does, they will stop it before the 3rd year, because other way people will start creating illegal farms.
It looks like the US wants to “kick out” “non-environmentally friendly” mining from the country, but I think the real reason is the excessive greed of the regulator.Either mining businesses will “flee” from the states, or will become completely illegal.
Tax it to death or ban it still = kill it in the USA no matter what.
Excessively high taxes will “strangle” any business. If a country wants to develop (attract) business in this direction, then they set a 0% tax rate. Look at the United Arab Emirates, where without their tax incentives not a single business would move, because who needs a desert. But now it's like a business mecca.Sad thing is that it will cost people their jobs, be it miners, traders and exchanges that operate in the USA with either route they take.
These people will receive money through 10\20\30% taxes indirectly in the form of benefits, tax breaks and other things.Here's the other sad thing, AI is power hungry too, as are all the data centers that we rely on for day to day things, Gov servers (IRS, Defence, police, DMV etc), traffic control systems, banking, the internet and all the servers and routers and network switches and distribution nodes for the cables in the sea and on land that we rely on day to day for the internet to work.
Why single out BTC / crypto with it's electric consumption ?
And I'm of the same opinion. It looks like discrimination, because this is a business like everything else.
April 23, 2024, 03:59:20 AM
From the start the Biden administration was not very pro towards Bitcoin mining in their country. It may seem that it is just imposing quite high taxes on this industry, but it is like slowly injecting this industry to death from the country. Maybe this old man thinks that it has no impact on their country's economy and it will only add to the problems in their country, so maybe he quite agrees that imposing high taxes on the Bitcoin mining industry is a good move. What a doll.
April 23, 2024, 03:36:37 AM
He is not looking to kill it, he is trying to impose the DAME tax, DAME means Digital Asset Mining Energy, and the idea is to start with this tax from 10%, then 20% in the next year and 30% on the 3rd year.
From how you have described the tax structure that is about to come, clearly this is one way of killing something, in this case BTC.Think of it in terms of say imposing tax on imported goods while leaving Locally produced items tax free, this means local goods look favourable to consumers as they will be cheaper to acquire and this is the same theory that will apply to BTC to bring back the Green Buck demand...
So, the plan isn't to ban the mining, but with those huge taxes, no one will want to mine there. Is not a good business. But i don't think congress will let that tax come to live, and if it does, they will stop it before the 3rd year, because other way people will start creating illegal farms.
Guess miners are being shown the exit door... April 22, 2024, 10:31:38 PM
This has been discussed before Biden resurrects 30% crypto mining tax in new budget proposal, it will be implemented in the next year.
When Biden become president, Russian invaded Ukraine and Israel attacks Palestine. He also not friendly to Bitcoin. While many people especially the young one is interested to invest in Bitcoin, Trump is quite friendly to Bitcoin.
So, lets hear your thoughts on this and if your in the USA, which way will you vote in November ?
Trump will win.When Biden become president, Russian invaded Ukraine and Israel attacks Palestine. He also not friendly to Bitcoin. While many people especially the young one is interested to invest in Bitcoin, Trump is quite friendly to Bitcoin.
April 22, 2024, 10:19:39 PM
If I remember correctly, this is not the first time Biden has made this proposal and it has been rejected before. Also, even if this regulation is approved, there is no need to worry, miners will move to friendlier countries. This action cannot stop the popularity of bitcoin or have any positive impact on the US government. They would lose a significant amount of tax revenue if they tried to drive the miners out of their country. To me, this news is no different than Fud, so it's not worth paying attention to.
April 22, 2024, 10:17:12 PM
That high tax on mining is going to cause so much discomfort for the miners of the America. It's not worth it to pose such high taxes on miners, the reward for mining is already half and the miners may face more problems if they get another burden as extra tax that they will have to pay in order to continue their mining operations.
First year tax is 10%, which is quite high for the miners who haven't yet covered the initial cost of the mining machine or ASICS that they have bought for the mining operations. And, the next years that tax will double to 20%, and 30% after that year. The miners have to move their mining setups to other countries if Biden or the government doesn't reduce that tax.
First year tax is 10%, which is quite high for the miners who haven't yet covered the initial cost of the mining machine or ASICS that they have bought for the mining operations. And, the next years that tax will double to 20%, and 30% after that year. The miners have to move their mining setups to other countries if Biden or the government doesn't reduce that tax.
April 22, 2024, 10:06:47 PM
tbh atp, Biden is just pulling a Biden here since he's just a frontman of 'his' administration who are actually the ones doing majority of the 'work'.
Someone else on this forum has mentioned about Trump being all over the place but everyone can clearly see that the entire Biden Administration can't even get one thing straight.
^ This comment is a barely off-topic but wanted to make a point to that one person who thinks that one knowledgable man's 'wandering off-point at times' is more embarrassing than an entire administration full of clowns screwing up everything LMFAO
(don't worry! This comment is it, nothing more!)
I will admit tho, America being in a hell-deep debt, the Biden administration were tryna find a way to somewhat find a source to repay it, and seeing that Bitcoin being the leading revolution and gaining countless more people into it, I'm guessing the administration wanted to find a easy shortcut since the money pumping through Bitcoin is outstanding.
Seeing that New York has already banned mining for carbon reduction reasons and several other states refusing to give out/renew permits for mining, it already seems like they're working on limiting crypto mining. But tbh, even if the government were to stop crypto mining for the general public they'd still end up producing just as much carbon when mining for themselves. I see it as they want more centralization over Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies which were introduced to be decentralized so that these types of things won't happen. idk, this is just the way I see it but if there is something I may be missing about this, do let me know, I'm still learning and open to other perspectives
But anyways, like everyone else who's commented before me, I agree that the bill can't just be passed as it's more than likely negatively impact America in the long term. Living in America myself, I hope nothing like such bill will be passed since seeing how crypto has revolutionized, it would only be a minor obstacle that crypto can overcome easily but will have a negatively huge impact on America... plus it's already chaotic here lol
Someone else on this forum has mentioned about Trump being all over the place but everyone can clearly see that the entire Biden Administration can't even get one thing straight.
^ This comment is a barely off-topic but wanted to make a point to that one person who thinks that one knowledgable man's 'wandering off-point at times' is more embarrassing than an entire administration full of clowns screwing up everything LMFAO
(don't worry! This comment is it, nothing more!)I will admit tho, America being in a hell-deep debt, the Biden administration were tryna find a way to somewhat find a source to repay it, and seeing that Bitcoin being the leading revolution and gaining countless more people into it, I'm guessing the administration wanted to find a easy shortcut since the money pumping through Bitcoin is outstanding.
Seeing that New York has already banned mining for carbon reduction reasons and several other states refusing to give out/renew permits for mining, it already seems like they're working on limiting crypto mining. But tbh, even if the government were to stop crypto mining for the general public they'd still end up producing just as much carbon when mining for themselves. I see it as they want more centralization over Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies which were introduced to be decentralized so that these types of things won't happen. idk, this is just the way I see it but if there is something I may be missing about this, do let me know, I'm still learning and open to other perspectives
But anyways, like everyone else who's commented before me, I agree that the bill can't just be passed as it's more than likely negatively impact America in the long term. Living in America myself, I hope nothing like such bill will be passed since seeing how crypto has revolutionized, it would only be a minor obstacle that crypto can overcome easily but will have a negatively huge impact on America... plus it's already chaotic here lol
April 22, 2024, 09:37:35 PM
There are supporters of Bitcoin community in the Congress and Biden can not only ask his party mates in the Congress to kill American Bitcoin mining industry. He will not get enough support to pass such a bill. He will not win no matter how hard he tries to do that and I believe he does not aim at killing American Bitcoin mining industry.
Tax, he and his administration want to get more tax for the nation from American Bitcoin mining industry. He can achieve it but he will not achieve a target to kill this industry, even he wants it.
If Bitcoin miners migrate from the USA. to other nations, the USA. will lose significant tax resource.
Tax, he and his administration want to get more tax for the nation from American Bitcoin mining industry. He can achieve it but he will not achieve a target to kill this industry, even he wants it.
If Bitcoin miners migrate from the USA. to other nations, the USA. will lose significant tax resource.
Yes and no .....
Why ?
New York (state) banned crypto mining...
`The New York Senate passed Bill S6486D banning cryptocurrency mining in the state when relying on carbon-based energy sources to power their operation.`
If other states follow their lead, which some have, it's game over for most unless you can find another power source that gets round the ban or move to another state that's crypto friendly.
There are states that are also refusing to give out permits / renew them for mining farms as well.
BTW - If you did not read the article that I posted in my first post here ....
Quote
President Biden is asking Congress to take aim at the American Bitcoin mining industry — and he's citing China as an example for the United States to follow.
April 22, 2024, 09:12:56 PM
There are supporters of Bitcoin community in the Congress and Biden can not only ask his party mates in the Congress to kill American Bitcoin mining industry. He will not get enough support to pass such a bill. He will not win no matter how hard he tries to do that and I believe he does not aim at killing American Bitcoin mining industry.
Tax, he and his administration want to get more tax for the nation from American Bitcoin mining industry. He can achieve it but he will not achieve a target to kill this industry, even he wants it.
If Bitcoin miners migrate from the USA. to other nations, the USA. will lose significant tax resource.
Tax, he and his administration want to get more tax for the nation from American Bitcoin mining industry. He can achieve it but he will not achieve a target to kill this industry, even he wants it.
If Bitcoin miners migrate from the USA. to other nations, the USA. will lose significant tax resource.
April 22, 2024, 09:00:26 PM
Tax it to death or ban it still = kill it in the USA no matter what.
Sad thing is that it will cost people their jobs, be it miners, traders and exchanges that operate in the USA with either route they take.
Here's the other sad thing, AI is power hungry too, as are all the data centers that we rely on for day to day things, Gov servers (IRS, Defence, police, DMV etc), traffic control systems, banking, the internet and all the servers and routers and network switches and distribution nodes for the cables in the sea and on land that we rely on day to day for the internet to work.
Why single out BTC / crypto with it's electric consumption ?
Sad thing is that it will cost people their jobs, be it miners, traders and exchanges that operate in the USA with either route they take.
Here's the other sad thing, AI is power hungry too, as are all the data centers that we rely on for day to day things, Gov servers (IRS, Defence, police, DMV etc), traffic control systems, banking, the internet and all the servers and routers and network switches and distribution nodes for the cables in the sea and on land that we rely on day to day for the internet to work.
Why single out BTC / crypto with it's electric consumption ?
April 22, 2024, 07:52:13 PM
He is not looking to kill it, he is trying to impose the DAME tax, DAME means Digital Asset Mining Energy, and the idea is to start with this tax from 10%, then 20% in the next year and 30% on the 3rd year.
So, the plan isn't to ban the mining, but with those huge taxes, no one will want to mine there. Is not a good business. But i don't think congress will let that tax come to live, and if it does, they will stop it before the 3rd year, because other way people will start creating illegal farms.
So, the plan isn't to ban the mining, but with those huge taxes, no one will want to mine there. Is not a good business. But i don't think congress will let that tax come to live, and if it does, they will stop it before the 3rd year, because other way people will start creating illegal farms.
April 22, 2024, 07:08:30 PM
Now, before I get into deep water with any moderators here, this topic is not here to start a fight, so please keep it on topic.
Looking for everyone's thoughts on this, please keep the political content to a minimum.
This story got posted today....
https://cointelegraph.com/news/biden-is-asking-congress-to-kill-the-american-bitcoin-mining-industry
So, lets hear your thoughts on this and if your in the USA, which way will you vote in November ?
Looking for everyone's thoughts on this, please keep the political content to a minimum.
This story got posted today....
https://cointelegraph.com/news/biden-is-asking-congress-to-kill-the-american-bitcoin-mining-industry
So, lets hear your thoughts on this and if your in the USA, which way will you vote in November ?
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