Topic: Biden resorts to negotiations with Putin (Read 120 times)

This war is Biden's first real challenge as a president and am sure he is not finding it easy making cabinet decisions around it. It is exposing his ineffectiveness as president. Maybe that is what Americans want in their president.


What will the negotiations for peace achieve after the two countries have destroyed themselves for months eventhough that is what should have prevented the war starting the first time at all. Putin is the aggressor here and I see him feeling shocked and challenged already by someone he feels is a minor.

This war would have been avoided by both Russia and Ukraine because the result of this war would not favor both countries. More nations in the Eastern bloc are joining NATO and recently Ukraine have gotten the green light to join the European Union, all these results are great losses to Russia. Maybe Ukraine felt that NATO would join the war or at least declare a no-fly-zone over Ukrainian territory but their expectation was dashed. A report indicated that Russia has the ability to fight this war for the next one year, meanwhile NATO suppliers are gradually dwindling. The best bet for peace now is negotiation and compromise. This war has no victor or vanquished and would never have, peace is what we need now.   

Crimea became part of Russia in 2014 and this is not a subject for negotiations with Ukraine. Kherson and Zaporozhye regions are no longer a subject for negotiations with Ukraine. Odessa and Nikolaev regions are not yet under the control of Russia, but definitely in the sphere of its interests. Ukraine's problem is that it will not be able to pay off only these areas so that Russia stops its military operation. Because the goals of the operation declared by Putin include the whole of Ukraine (and it’s good if they are limited only to it). And it is unlikely that Ukraine is ready to give up all of its territory in exchange for a cessation of hostilities with Russia, so I do not see any prospects for peace negotiations now, at least with Zelensky. And what is Biden ready to offer Putin in exchange for ending the military operation in Ukraine?.

The general concensus among political experts is that this conflit can not be won, the end can only be negotiated. But at this point it's hard to see what agreement would satisfy both parties. Hell, even Puttin wanted a negotiation, but he wanted it from a higher plain of power by taking Kyev and forcing the government to negotiate. I think Ukrain will have to give more than they want to. But what? I am guessing at least Crimea.

The strength of the US in all of Biden's activity remains... well, not so good.


Good News!

zelensky wants to keep the eastern region.. and will fight for it.

but the UN, EU, G20 prefer a version of ukraine without the eastern region.
putin prefers a version of ukraine without the eastern region. (where russia have the eastern region)

so any negotiations done by those that are not ukraine leader will favours a settlement of handing over the eastern region. which is why its futile for zelensky to be part of that negotiation forum

I think that Ukraine and Russia should take this issue to a more serious forum, for example the Indonesian president has invited Zelensky and Putin to attend the G20 which will be held in Indonesia, but it seems that Zelensky did not have the courage to face Putin at the forum and chose to resigned because he was focused on building his country.

I wonder if Zelensky is really serious about running his country? This war has been going on for a long time, and until now the two countries have not found a solution to this problem and have instead focused on increasing military aggression.

the U.N (mostly US puppet mastered) denied ukraine membership due to the eastern region being occupied by russian loyalists for atleast a decade now.

the U.N would happily invite ukraine into the U.N membership if ukraine just let go of the eastern region and declared that the eastern part was not part of the invitation..

same with the EU. they wont welcome ukraine into the EU if the eastern region is part of the invite.
so even the US and the EU would be happy if the eastern region went to putin.

the whole weapons support/deals is not about the EU/US wanting to help get rid of the russian occupation. its to make ukraine in debt to the EU-US. so that the ukraine have to some how pay back the EU-US by agreeing to some terms or deals.

yep the EU are happy to house, shelter and feed the ukrainian refugees that were displaced out of the eastern region.. because ukraine will have to pay the EU back for their support.
yep the EU would rather sell guns to ukraine and then house their refugee's .. instead of send eu/us troops to push out the russian loyalists and keep the eastern region in ukraine occupation.. because the best money and power and control is in letting the eastern region slip into putins hands


if the EU-US really wanted a group of enemy loyalists out of a region. the US has in the past had no problem jumping into someone elses country and help move out their radicalised oppressive enemy, to keep the friendly group the EU-US want to stay, able to stay.
the middle east is great examples of america and europe just jumping in and running around shooting terrorists to get them out the way..
america and europe are not trying to jump in and push the russian loyalists out. they instead want to make ukraine indebted to the us/eu so that the us-eu get more control over negotiations to whatever favours the eu/us agenda

..
the EU/US should have done what they done in iraq, syria and other places. if they really wanted radical loyalists out.. then just get the eu-US in to push them out..
its not something that cant be done because again for emphases the middle east wars proved it has and can be done.. its just that the eu-us dont want to remove the russian loyalists. its better for them to let putin take over the eastern region and have a smaller ukraine under EU.UN membership without the eastern region included.

the reason its taking so long to get to that conclusion.. peacetime is not good money making opportunity. war is profitable

Putin needs some sort of way out where he can maintain a facade of victory, and proclaim such to the people back in Russia. Not sure what this might entail, presumably some concessions in the east, and promises about future NATO membership/expansion.

Putin may be willing to talk if he believes he can be offered something acceptable. What he says in public and what he might agree to in private could be two quite different things. But I would think it's better for the two sides to be talking rather than not talking. Communication channels need to remain open.

 No one can persuade someone who is hell-bent on following through with his plans. As the war grinds to it's fourth month, the US has decided to support the Ukrainians staunch defense of its territory by a steady supply of weaponry. In the wake of all this, President Zelensky believes strongly that victory is theirs.
 Meanwhile,  Biden believes that to stop this senseless war,  proposing a negotiation as in truth, they (Ukraine) lack the conbat power to expel Russia from it's territory.
 Putin has come out to state that he will cease all form of bullying and harassment only if he is decisively defeated by the Ukrainians. Question is, what juicy proposal can deter Putin?? https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/06/15/negotiating-to-end-the-ukraine-war-isnt-appeasement-00039798