BitBox 02 -- Has anyone here actually used it?

n0nce

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Quote from: dkbit98 on November 04, 2021, 04:25:27 AM

Quote from: n0nce on November 03, 2021, 07:31:10 PM

I'll just order some custom sized basic plastic screen protectors from AliBaba for various HW wallets and sell them lol, this is a huge gap in the market, it turns out, and easy to fill.. Grin

Cross your fingers and hope there is not going to be supply chain shortage on that also.
I can't find some things to buy or they have high price, but recently I received something from China in record short amount of time.

Actually the best I found so far is a European shop (DE): https://www.protectionfilms24.com/custom-sizes.html
It should be around 2€ each, if I get 10 BitBox screen protectors for example. However, I tried by cutting up something for a phone that I don't have anymore, and there's an issue due to the logo which sticks out on the BitBox screen. But it should work well on other wallets.

Quote from: dkbit98 on November 04, 2021, 04:25:27 AM

Quote from: n0nce on November 03, 2021, 07:31:10 PM

To be honest, the Trezor One is a pretty good device to this day. I still recommend it; especially when it's on sale. Sure it has no secure element, but for most people it's better than securing the coins just on a software wallet, especially when phones break and stuff like that.

I think it's even more durable than Trezor Model T that is now way overpriced (€200 + shipping) and it has big screen that is much easier to break.
If you ask me I would rather buy Bitbox02 (instead of model T) because it has secure element and can be purchased for €119.
Any of this wallets is better than keeping lot of bitcoin (keys) on hot wallets of your computer or phone.

I think for 99% of people this is the main factor they should worry about. Even a hw wallet without secure element is much better than how the majority of people holds their coins.

Pmalek

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dkbit98 is right. The price is €200 and more depending on where you are.

The prices differ even for EU countries such as Austria and Croatia, for example.
If you want to ship it to Austria, it's €164 for the device + €34.8 for VAT. The total price is €208.8.
If you order it in Croatia, you pay a VAT of €43.5. That brings the total price to €217.5.

dkbit98

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Quote from: SFR10 on November 04, 2021, 11:57:22 AM

Small correction: It should be in "USD".

No, that is not the case for everyone, Trezor website changes currency and price with shipping according to your location and IP address.
Here is one example showed in EUR:
https://archive.ph/HqcQA

Charles-Tim

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Quote from: SFR10 on November 04, 2021, 11:57:22 AM

Quote from: dkbit98 on November 04, 2021, 04:25:27 AM

Trezor Model T that is now way overpriced (€200 + shipping)

Small correction: It should be in "USD".

I think he did its approximation. Trezor model T is sold €164 on the Trezor official site while its shipping fee to my country for example is €24 which makes it totalled €188 which is $217.02.

SFR10

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I just finished watching a bunch of videos about "BitBox02" and I didn't like the following things:

Not being able to see the whole address: Video link
^{- IIRC, that's also the case with Ledger Nano S, but on a Trezor model One, you can view everything despite having a small screen!}
When you enter the wrong password, it doesn't have a wait time between each attempt: Video link
- Trezor appears to be offering that feature ^{[I've never tried it on mine, so I'm just assuming that the following comment is accurate]}:
Quote from: Charles-Tim on November 03, 2021, 01:54:10 PM
The product is not in stock,
They "might" restock it soon.

Quote from: Charles-Tim on November 03, 2021, 01:54:10 PM
I check also Amazon few hours ago as I know buying screen protector can not result to any vulnerability or whatsoever
Unfortunately, it's not a "tempered glass"; in other words, it'll offer little protection.

Quote from: Charles-Tim on November 03, 2021, 01:54:10 PM
Also I was unable to see any screen protector for Trezor one but only for Trezor model T.
Here's "one" similar to the one that you provided for model T.

Quote from: Charles-Tim on November 03, 2021, 01:54:10 PM
we should not underrate the silicon case because it can still protect the screen to some extent by providing some cushioning.
You have a point, but only if you drop it on a flat surface ^{[from a short distance]}.

Quote from: n0nce on November 03, 2021, 07:31:10 PM
I'll just order some custom sized basic plastic screen protectors from AliBaba for various HW wallets and sell them lol, this is a huge gap in the market, it turns out, and easy to fill..

Quote from: dkbit98 on November 04, 2021, 04:25:27 AM
Trezor Model T that is now way overpriced (€200 + shipping)
Small correction: It should be in "USD".

Update:
Quote from: dkbit98 on November 04, 2021, 12:25:44 PM
No, that is not the case for everyone, Trezor website changes currency and price with shipping according to your location and IP address.
Here is one example showed in EUR:
https://archive.ph/HqcQA
That's interesting and unfair at the same time ^{[apart from the shipping part]}.

Charles-Tim

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Quote from: dkbit98 on November 04, 2021, 04:25:27 AM

If you ask me I would rather buy Bitbox02 (instead of model T) because it has secure element and can be purchased for €119.
Any of this wallets is better than keeping lot of bitcoin (keys) on hot wallets of your computer or phone.

Hardware wallets can be better than one another, but with experience the main goal can still remain the same, which is making the seed phrase to remain offline and never come online, this requires someone to know more about how to securely and safely use the hardware wallet and also perfectly make a backup to avoid damages and offline attackers.

About Trezor, just the physical known and not new attack can be eliminated with the use of secure element, or maybe through another technology which can be open source. The trust people have in Trezor is that the hardware wallet Is completely open source, but I think the company is lazy to go extra mile to improve how to protect the hardware wallet against physical attack.

If passphrase is not included along while generating keys and addresses on Trezor, I can not use the wallet because the physical attack can still reveal the seed phrase, while also making use of a very strong passphrase that can make brute forcing the passphrase impossible. But if BitBox 02 is completely open source and have secure element which is proven to protect the seed phrase, this would be a better option to go for which still comes with half of the price of Trezor Model T.

dkbit98

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Quote from: n0nce on November 03, 2021, 07:31:10 PM

I'll just order some custom sized basic plastic screen protectors from AliBaba for various HW wallets and sell them lol, this is a huge gap in the market, it turns out, and easy to fill.. Grin

Cross your fingers and hope there is not going to be supply chain shortage on that also.
I can't find some things to buy or they have high price, but recently I received something from China in record short amount of time.

Quote from: n0nce on November 03, 2021, 07:31:10 PM

To be honest, the Trezor One is a pretty good device to this day. I still recommend it; especially when it's on sale. Sure it has no secure element, but for most people it's better than securing the coins just on a software wallet, especially when phones break and stuff like that.

I think it's even more durable than Trezor Model T that is now way overpriced (€200 + shipping) and it has big screen that is much easier to break.
If you ask me I would rather buy Bitbox02 (instead of model T) because it has secure element and can be purchased for €119.
Any of this wallets is better than keeping lot of bitcoin (keys) on hot wallets of your computer or phone.

n0nce

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Activity: 910

Merit: 5935

not your keys, not your coins!

Quote from: SFR10 on November 03, 2021, 11:01:48 AM

Quote from: n0nce on November 02, 2021, 06:59:16 AM

But it would be best if they just included a few, maybe one preapplied;

They could even sell it separately as Trezor does and I'm quite surprised that there are little to no accessories for it ^{[apart from those that came in the box]}.

I'll just order some custom sized basic plastic screen protectors from AliBaba for various HW wallets and sell them lol, this is a huge gap in the market, it turns out, and easy to fill.. Grin

Quote from: SFR10 on November 03, 2021, 11:01:48 AM

Quote from: HCP on November 02, 2021, 08:17:28 PM

4+ years and it is still going strong Shocked

You're a legend for keeping it for that long Cheesy

To be honest, the Trezor One is a pretty good device to this day. I still recommend it; especially when it's on sale. Sure it has no secure element, but for most people it's better than securing the coins just on a software wallet, especially when phones break and stuff like that.

Charles-Tim

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Quote from: SFR10 on November 03, 2021, 11:01:48 AM

You're right, but you can pair it with a "PanzerGlass™ Screen Protector".
^{- Unfortunately, they're not offering anything for the model One.}

The product is not in stock, I check also Amazon few hours ago as I know buying screen protector can not result to any vulnerability or whatsoever while not necessary to depend on the primary source unlike prefering to buying hardware wallet from the producers directly. Also I was unable to see any screen protector for Trezor one but only for Trezor model T.

The screen protector may be scarce dew to low demand (I guess), while we should not underrate the silicon case because it can still protect the screen to some extent by providing some cushioning. Even some case protecting phone still protect its screen to an extent without the phone screen protector if compared to phone without no external protection at all. With the very light weight of Trezor with the exposed part of the silicon case (exposing the Trezor screen), I think the case will still effectively protect the hardware wallet screen to some extent. Although, the screen protector will make it better and more protected.

SFR10

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Quote from: n0nce on November 01, 2021, 02:50:36 PM

What's quite interesting is the password entry. It's done by tapping the case on either side in specific locations.

Whoever first came up with the idea, is a genius!

Quote from: dkbit98 on November 02, 2021, 05:40:12 AM

Oh and Bitbox is much stronger than it looks, did you see this demolishing/destroying video? Cheesy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAStv2Iluak

And for comparison purposes, this is "how durable Trezor model T" is Cheesy

Quote from: n0nce on November 02, 2021, 06:59:16 AM

But it would be best if they just included a few, maybe one preapplied;

They could even sell it separately as Trezor does and I'm quite surprised that there are little to no accessories for it ^{[apart from those that came in the box]}.

Quote from: HCP on November 02, 2021, 08:17:28 PM

https://i.imgur.com/rGc6SLl.png https://i.imgur.com/Ur0Pzx3.png

4+ years and it is still going strong Shocked

You're a legend for keeping it for that long Cheesy

Quote from: dkbit98 on November 03, 2021, 04:33:28 AM

Trezor sells silicone protection cases but I think there is a hole for screen in them, so it makes no sense to use it for screen protection.

You're right, but you can pair it with a "PanzerGlass™ Screen Protector".
^{- Unfortunately, they're not offering anything for the model One.}

dkbit98

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Quote from: HCP on November 02, 2021, 08:17:28 PM

You mean like this

Exactly like that, but I have to admit it could be tempting at first to just remove the foil Cheesy

Other way for protection would be to buy some small bags that will protect wallet from any damage, I even think they sell some specialized leather cases for hardware wallets.
Trezor sells silicone protection cases but I think there is a hole for screen in them, so it makes no sense to use it for screen protection.

HCP

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Quote from: dkbit98 on November 02, 2021, 05:40:12 AM

Trezor wallet have some foil by default and I heard that some people never removed it and it works just fine for them Wink

You mean like this:

4+ years and it is still going strong Shocked

n0nce

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Quote from: dkbit98 on November 02, 2021, 05:40:12 AM

Quote from: n0nce on November 01, 2021, 02:50:36 PM

which means if you carry it in your pocket it will scratch up fast. I hope they will fix this in the future, but unfortunately many wallets that have a larger screen, have this issue.

It might be a good idea to buy one of those cheap smartphone foil screen protectors and cut it down for the size of your hardware wallet, to protect screen from scratches.
Trezor wallet have some foil by default and I heard that some people never removed it and it works just fine for them Wink

I was thinking about that the other day! I have screen protectors for old smartphones that I don't own anymore, so those would be perfect to cut down to size and apply onto hardware wallet screens. But it would be best if they just included a few, maybe one preapplied; if they really can't make it out of glass, that is.

Quote from: dkbit98 on November 02, 2021, 05:40:12 AM

Quote from: n0nce on November 01, 2021, 02:50:36 PM

~

This is much better than what Trezor is doing, so it's a big improvement especially if we know that BitBox02 is basically forked and improved version of Trezor wallet with secure element.

Yeah, correct

I see it as a big win if open source projects share code amongst each other and help each other to make the best piece of software they can. But the password entry is definitely better implemented on the BitBox.

Quote from: dkbit98 on November 02, 2021, 05:40:12 AM

Oh and Bitbox is much stronger than it looks, did you see this demolishing/destroying video? Cheesy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAStv2Iluak

It definitely takes some blows, that's nice!

dkbit98

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Quote from: n0nce on November 01, 2021, 02:50:36 PM

which means if you carry it in your pocket it will scratch up fast. I hope they will fix this in the future, but unfortunately many wallets that have a larger screen, have this issue.

It might be a good idea to buy one of those cheap smartphone foil screen protectors and cut it down for the size of your hardware wallet, to protect screen from scratches.
Trezor wallet have some foil by default and I heard that some people never removed it and it works just fine for them Wink

Quote from: n0nce on November 01, 2021, 02:50:36 PM

What's quite interesting is the password entry. It's done by tapping the case on either side in specific locations. Compared to the BB01, where the password was entered via the GUI on the host computer, this is much better since you can't write a software that tries brute-forcing it and you can't key-log it either. It's also very hard to e.g. video record (or watch) someone enter the password and properly see what they're inputting, compared to e.g. a two-button input sequence that may be spotted from a distance.

This is much better than what Trezor is doing, so it's a big improvement especially if we know that BitBox02 is basically forked and improved version of Trezor wallet with secure element.
Oh and Bitbox is much stronger than it looks, did you see this demolishing/destroying video? Cheesy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAStv2Iluak

n0nce

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not your keys, not your coins!

I have some experience with this wallet. Very easy to set up, back up, use.
App works well on all operating systems, intuitive and simple, but with enough options like different currency conversions etc.; it also works with Electrum.
Build quality is good, although the screen cover is just plastic (like all other hw wallets I've seen so far), which means if you carry it in your pocket it will scratch up fast. I hope they will fix this in the future, but unfortunately many wallets that have a larger screen, have this issue.
What's quite interesting is the password entry. It's done by tapping the case on either side in specific locations. Compared to the BB01, where the password was entered via the GUI on the host computer, this is much better since you can't write a software that tries brute-forcing it and you can't key-log it either. It's also very hard to e.g. video record (or watch) someone enter the password and properly see what they're inputting, compared to e.g. a two-button input sequence that may be spotted from a distance.

dkbit98

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I don't own BitBox02 wallet but I consider it a good option for open source hardware wallet that is Swiss made, and it has same secure element ATECC608A like Coldcard and Passport wallet.
After watching some reviews with testing I can say that it is very well made, so much that it is much harder to destroy Bitbox device with a hammer than you think.
I am sure that most other hardware wallets like ledger (made in china) and trezor would be smashed in pieces with hammer, that is not the case with Bitbox:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAStv2Iluak

I think that it has the same price as ledger nano x that is closed source with battery issues, and I would rather spend that money on Bitbox.
Trezor Model T is more expensive and open source, but I wouldn't buy it now until they add secure element and make it more secure.

OROBTC

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...

I had one of the old BitBoxes a couple of years ago, and liked it well enough although it (the unit itself) ran fairly hot making me wonder...

IMO, competition in the HW space is a good thing. I really do like my Trezor Model T, but would like comments on the new generation of BitBox.

Topic: BitBox 02 -- Has anyone here actually used it? (Read 190 times)