Topic: Bitcoin $1Trillion Market Cap questions (Read 305 times)

Month earlier I was critical to such announcements and believed in good correction but afterwards Tesla and several other whale organizations have bought BTC and my opinion changed a bit. I am still waiting for correction but think it won’t be so huge like some noobs want.
As for capitalization of BTC, it grows in quantum leaps now. At such rate it might reach two trillions till the end of this year.

The 2 most valuable things ever in the universe is the two T's that is Truth & Time.

The truth is the Bitcoin ledger, it cannot be edited or manipulated by someone. Since 12 years ago there's hasn't been 1 transaction mistake in the bitcoin ledger or someone who has fraudulently edited the transaction amount in the btc ledger.

Bitcoin is based on Mathematics fundamentals and for example we can all agree that 2+2=4 with no debate or argument to it from whatever skin colour or religion you are because its the truth and a fact answer that will never change in time.

With Gold for example If I wanted to buy Gold off you and you offered to sell I wont give my money to you straight away because I don't trust you by default hence I get the gold checked and verified to see whether the gold is real not fake before handing my money over to you. Trust is already there in Bitcoin and Time is verifying that trust.

However Time is limited, nothing lasts forever not even Bitcoin. Hence Time is so valuable but without truth theres no time and without time theres no truth.

Governments can ban and make bitcoin illegal but they did the same with drugs but I didn't see the global drug black market going to 0 after governments made drugs illegal.

If governments made drugs legal the price of drugs in the black market will collapse and put all drug dealers out of business.

In fact banning bitcoin will make bitcoins even more expensive as it will migrate to the black market where the risk of being caught transactions will demand a much higher premium like drugs. Banning bitcoin is futile and people will still use it.

The only way For Governments or Central Banks is to kill Bitcoin is shut off the Internet worldwide or somehow borrow a Quantum Computer off Google to bypass the Bitcoin Encryption quickly.

Talking of Quantum Computers who owns them in this world? I hear Google owns one right?

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The 2 most valuable things ever in the universe is the two T's that is Truth & Time.

The truth is the Bitcoin ledger, it cannot be edited or manipulated by someone. Since 12 years ago there's hasn't been 1 transaction mistake in the bitcoin ledger or someone who has fraudulently edited the transaction amount in the btc ledger.

Bitcoin is based on Mathematics fundamentals and for example we can all agree that 2+2=4 with no debate or argument to it from whatever skin colour or religion you are because its the truth and a fact answer that will never change in time.

With Gold for example If I wanted to buy Gold off you and you offered to sell I wont give my money to you straight away because I don't trust you by default hence I get the gold checked and verified to see whether the gold is real not fake before handing my money over to you. Trust is already there in Bitcoin and Time is verifying that trust.

However Time is limited, nothing lasts forever not even Bitcoin. Hence Time is so valuable but without truth theres no time and without time theres no truth.

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

Many early adopters will surely take profit soon and with Bitcoin hitting a milestone like 1 trillion marketcap, a correction won't be too far away I guess. I also don't think that were at the point of world adoption yet. It's not even that popular yet. There's paypal already and I think in the near future Mastercard but world adoption is still far since some countries are even looking into banning it i.e India. 1 trillion marketcap is undoubtedly a remarkable milestone which will only drive more investors into the crypto space.

Realistically I expect gold to touch $5,000 (£3,567) per oz sometime soon. With fiat currencies losing their purchasing power at such a rapid rate, assets such as gold, platinum, silver and Bitcoin would definitely go up in demand. But I am not sure whether the governments will allow that. It may sound draconian now, but the authorities can go for wealth confiscation in order to cover debt repayments (similar to what Cyprus did in 2013)

Quite possibly. Institutional investment does seem to be the main driver of the current bull run. It may reach a point where people start to think it would be foolish not to have a small bitcoin position.
A 'small' allocation in percentage terms for a growing number of large institutions can have a significant impact on price.

Also 1 trillion to 2 trillion is of course not the same as zero to 1 trillion. If you look at bitcoin price history on a linear scale chart, you learn very little. If you view the data logarithmically, then clear patterns emerge.
Finally, bitcoin is not a company, so there's no sense saying it's "as big as Microsoft" or "as big as Amazon". If bitcoin is a currency, or if bitcoin is a store of value, then 2 trillion is not a problem.

The flip side of all this, of course, is that prices can also fall. Steady increases in general are good, sudden huge increases are much less sustainable.

What is the next target? $50K level breached.. $1 trillion market cap achieved.. any short term targets remain now? That said, I am a bit worried about the declining Bitcoin dominance. A few months back, we were at 71%. Now the dominance has gone below 61%. And more worryingly, it is the new coins such as Polkadot and Chainlink making the most of the gains. I am OK with the gains made by BNB, because it is one of the few altcoins having real usage.

Last month, we had a brief period of correction, when the prices went down from $41,000 to $31,000. I guess most of the individual investors booked profits at that point. Now the institutions are not going to sell their stash anytime soon (unless the FinCen or the SEC creates some major issue). I don't expect any major correction anytime soon. May be we'll have one after $75K.

At last. Welcome to world adoption. Bitcoin broke 1 trillion dollars in market cap and smashes through $56,000USD as well. With great power comes great responsibility as large investors are HODLing, and small investors probably feel more security than anytime before. But, what about correction?

What bitcoin achieved is really overwhelming. Only more than a decade in the market and it is flying high.
And the good thing, the inventor, Satoshi, is nowhere to be found and we have no idea if he is enjoying what he created for humanity.
Those other popular companies in the above list, at least, have their founders or owners known to the public and we know they have good life in terms of financial aspect.
And this is also a testament that a specific invention can go big in the market even if there is no visible leader managing it. That's the beauty of crypto.

That's a phenomenal achievement for Bitcoin. At this rate it will take no.1 rank on this list very soon! or after the next bear market :

https://8marketcap.com/

your question is too skeptical....where did the additional funds come from, no one knows, just relax in your seat.  bottom line Bitcoin capitalization won't stop at $ 1T, it will continue to increase. 

Why not? As others have already explained to you, the BTC market cap is just a product of the price of 1 BTC and the total amount of coins available at that time. Every day approximately 900 new BTC are mined, so the MC increases even if the price stays the same or decreases. If we were to take the example of keeping the price of BTC at current values until the end of the year - and in the next 10 months the circulating supply increases by 270 000 BTC (27 000 per month), it would mean that MC at the end of the year increased by a total of $13.5 billion.

But of course if the price reaches $100k it will also mean that the MC has doubled - which is nothing unrealistic considering how fast the price has increased from $10k to $50k.

Okay im looking at marketcaps to compare and see where markets can go.

Billionaire Peter Schiff saying gold can go to £3000 per oz but gold market cap now is above $11trillion at around $1700 per oz of gold now. So if Gold doubles in price to $3000 per oz then realistically can gold marketcap double to $22 trillion in a short time frame? I ask because it took gold tens of thousands of years to reach $11trillion marketcap today. If it took so long for gold to reach $11 trillion then why should a marketcap of any market double it in such a short amount of time?

So based on marketcap can bitcoin double its marketcap in short time to $2 trillion resulting in $100k per btc this year?

First, you need to learn a bit about market cap and how it works. Secondly, Bitcoin and Apple are two different entities, one is a form of currency and other is a company so you can not compare both on same dimensions. BTC price might be doubled in a year or may be in few months, you never know. If BTC survived this bull run and maintained its upward trend then I think we will see $2 Trillion sooner than expected.

Apple has issued 17 Billion Shares, which should be enough to go around for everyone in a capitalist environment.

But what I don't understand is why Apple offered stocks splits/fractional shares on top of the issued 17 Billion when there's enough 17 billion shares to begin with and they are affordable

I understand Bitcoin is fractional to 8 decimal places to the lowest 0.00000001 sat because there's limited fixed 21 million enabling any rich or poor person to buy bitcoin.

Berkshire Hathaway owned by that rich dude Warren Buffett only issued 1.59million shares hence each share price there is expensive at over $360k each, it makes sense to offer stock splits/fractional shares for Berkshire Hathaway so retail investors can afford to invest in it as the average retail investor don't have $360k in their back pocket to buy 1 share of Warren Buffet's company.

How many decimal places Dogecoin have and if its 8 like bitcoin then why so much dilution in such a cheap coin that has a unlimited supply similar to Apple 

Why don't cheap unlimited supply altcoins have low decimal places like 2 decimal places like the $US dollar? For example $0.01 cent.

I agree. The current methodology to measure market cap for various cryptocurrencies is deeply flawed. As franky1 has already pointed out, it is very easy to manipulate the market cap numbers. You just need to keep a large portion of the coins away from free-float, in order to inflate the market capitalization. I never look in to market cap while making investment decisions. On the other hand, I look for daily and weekly trade volumes and some of the other parameters such as acceptability.

One classic example is that of Ripple. Until very recently, XRP used to be ranked as the no.3 cryptocurrency in terms of market cap. They managed to inflate the market cap, by keeping most of the coins in cold storage. A handful of the promoters were holding 80% to 90% of all the coins, so it was relatively easy. But when SEC unleashed shitstorm against XRP, this inflated market cap came to no use.

Sure Apple was old but the current marketcap of 2 trillion USD was only achieved in 2 years and I think doubling your marketcap at a short amount of time is impressive. But with the current scaling in bitcoin compared with the timeframe that it reached I think that given more years, bitcoin will reach bigger marketcap than Apple. The only reason that Apple has this marketcap is because they have a big market and the notion that owning one of their devices makes you look rich which is good for them because more people will buy their overpriced products that are mediocre at quality.

To put this into context:
Bitcoin was created in 2009 -> 12 years ago
Apple was created in 1976  -> 45 years ago

You are also comparing apples and oranges (no pun intended). Bitcoin is a currency while Apple is a company. You can't even begin to compare the two. In fact market capitalization is not even defined for currencies! The only reason why it is being calculated is because someone a long time ago was looking for a way to rank cryptocurrencie and they couldn't come up with anything easier!

Because Apple is a GREAT business, hence why expectations from investors have always been high. In addition, people in general have been rushing into other assets as the federal reserve keeps printing more and more USD.

Well, they do have production plants in China, but it's not like they're the only company who has. Products and hardware being made in China isn't really anything new for any business.

Apple's doubling in marketcap has almost nothing to do with it's supply. A stock's total float could always double, triple, or quadruple if the company wants to; through stock splits[1]. It's the simple fact there's very high demand of Apple shares.

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[1] https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/what-stock-split-why-do-stocks-split/

People are obsessed with the "Market Cap" ...as if this is the measure of success of this technology. We do not have to compare ourselves with companies like Apple or Amazon ...because it means nothing.  

We look at Bitcoin adoption and Bitcoin distribution and transaction speed and Bitcoin security to measure the success of this experiment. We could care less about the share price of Apple or Amazon and what their market cap will be, compared to Bitcoin.  

Hope you understand that Bitcoin is not meant to be a Commodity, but rather a Currency or alternative payment option to Fiat currencies.  

Companies create more stocks to bonus their staffs, investors, etc. Price of stocks usually fall after a new flow of stocks are available on the market. With bitcoin, you won't see it as bitcoin has its fixed total supply. None of us can create more bitcoin than about 21 millions of bitcoin were set up to be created by satoshi nakamoto.

Bitcoin need to double its price to double its marketcap. It sounds like to be a harder task for bitcoin, than any stock or company but I see it is possible task. One more block halving, price will be double and marketcap will be more than double.

As of now, we can say that the price will continue to increase because of the demand. After those big-time investments have occurred in the last few months, The price has continued to increase more than our own expectation. most of the investors have speculated that the price will finally reach $100k soon because of its current state in the market. It's increasing every day you know? It just simply means that the bitcoins market is going stronger every day and there is no reason for it to stop soon.

Tesla, in its statement has made it clear that they may purchase Bitcoin from time to time. So the $1.5 billion purchase in January 2021 is not going to be the last one. And despite what JP Morgan claim, a number of larger and mid-sized corporations are exploring the possibility of converting some of their cash reserves to assets such as Bitcoin and bullion. The impact will be visible from the second half of this year.

And there is a very important thing to remember. OP says that you need a fund inflow of $1 trillion to take the market cap from $1 tr to $2 tr. That is wrong and that's not how the market works. You need only a fraction of that amount, because most of the Bitcoin circulating supply is held away from free-float in cold storage. The amount of coins available for free-float is much less. All you need is to mop up the coins that are in free-float, and it may take $100 billion or less.

lesson one:
a market cap is not actually a bank account that holds $1trill to be collteral for the market cap
a market cap is the price of a single bitcoin multiplied by how many bitcoins exist.

meaning. i can make a altcoin with 20trillion premine coin. and sell just 1 coin to a friend for just $1.
and by that single $1 purchase id get a market cap of $20trillion.
yep even with just $1 involved in all trades. it creates a $20 trillion market cap

lesson 2
if we changed the markets to not have order lines of
$50,000.0001
$50,000.0002
meaning it takes 1000 people to out bid each other just to raise the price by $1
and instead have orderlines that spread by
$50.000
$50,001
then it only takes one person to outbid another person to raise the price by $1
and guess what

lesson 3
those orderlines do not need to be filled with whole bitcoins
there can be orderlines of
$50,000: 0.00001btc ($0.50c)
$50,001:0.00001btc($0.50c)

meaning just 50cents can move the price by $1
meaning it only takes $25k to move the price from $50k to $100k
meaning if all the idea's i just said are implemented the market cap can move to $2trill for just $25k

.
i hope these lessons make you realise the emptiness of the 'market caps' value

How many people in the world are against Apple?
How many celebrities are there who say that iPhone is fake?
How many governments have banned Apple iPhones?

Really you can't understand what will take Bitcoin to double its market cap to $2trillion? then listen, it's BTC's limited 21milion supply and vast adoption that will take us more than $2trillion market cap.

According to statista we reached over 67 million active Bitcoin wallet user within February 2021, which was only 23 million in Feb 2018. Can you estimate how much adoption and users are increasing per year even where most of the govt and banks are actively struggling against Bitcoin?

the average people learned about Apple and its product. it is also in the regulated market which anyone who is into trading will likely bid to it. It can easily grow because it's popular. not need of explaining what apple product is but for BTC, regular people don't even understand its tech and the media represented it as a scam that up to this day people still doubt despite the price keeps pushing up.

Market cap is the total value of Bitcoins under circulation, according to the price it's currently sitting at. If Bitcoin's mcap suddenly dropped by $100B, it does not mean $100B worth of BTC have been sold. It's just the price dropping.

Why iPhones? There are so many other phones available for sale on the market - if someone did not have a smartphone yet until the quarantine came, I'd assume they are very, very poor. And in that case, they would not afford buying one of the most expensive phones out there.

I think a lot of money will be pumped into BTC these years. People are starting to finally get it. We finally get a bit of the attention we deserve, and it's looking good overall no matter from which side you're watching. I just hope it's not a trap for us - so far, so good!

Out of the $2 trillion, I'd estimate around 5% of it going into Bitcoin. I think that's a good estimate if we consider that the number of Americans owning a cryptocurrency was, according to a survey, 14.4% in 2019. If we estimate that around 5% of the Americans will push their stimulus into BTC, that is $100B already.

But that remains to be seen. From 2019 to 2021, the crypto community has grown a lot. Things may look wilder than we estimate.

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Cheap labor, cheap materials, increasing product prices and yet removing features (chargers..).. and so on. All things considered, they're able to make a ton of money out of it yet people still buy their products although the most important parts of them (the power source....) is intentionally removed.

The conditions under which Apple's labor is happening are disgusting. There have been lots of suicides reported, from Steve Jobs' administration 'till these days.

There have even been safety nets placed on the buildings to protect workers from killing themselves. This is how bad it got.

This isn't the right board for your question.. consider asking this in a more fitting board instead.

let's look at these one by one :
First of all bitcoins actually took a very less time to reach where they are right now , honestly I did not know about a company or a firm or an asset which showed such amazing results within such a short time.
Now the doubling right now would be more like exponential, because the more people adopt it the more it is used by others , therefore the growth won't be linear but exponential. More companies follow each other's suite.
Now when we are talking about virus :
Let's first talk about the virus and the bitcoins correlation!
Yes it did help in a very big way !! The virus showed the people how fragile our economy is and how the system would collapse if there was another blow like this and therefore I do think that it was indeed a big step towards people recognizing the need of financial freedom.
Lockdown and apple ! NO! I think it did not go like this for sure since the lockdown meant that people don't have much money to buy expensive phones so I do think people go for things like budget phones for sure.

Okay thanks for explaining marketcap.

Still thinking how did Apple doubled its marketcap in just 2 years   ?

Sounds like they are using slaves for their labour & increasing prices of their iphones yearly to explain that doubling in marketcap then?

Apple has about 17 billion shares in circulation compared to bitcoin 21million. This means as of now every man, woman, child & baby on this planet can own about 3 apple shares each worth about $390 now. I even doubt there's enough real fruit apples as of now for every human on this planet let alone 3 apples each as thousands are dying of starvation daily globally and they cost cents each per fruit  Surely there cant be a supply issue between 2018-20 to cause Apple market cap to double right?

My thought will amaze you. i like this thread because it look at bitcoin optimistically.

An invention of 2008 is almost $1trn worth, what an amazing invention by forsighted entrepreneurs.

If it takes few months for btc to rise from $15k to 50k it will take less than 1 year for btc to rise to $100k becuase of hat is called the domino effect and the networking effect.

The more institutional investors and pulic companies adopt it, the more it will spread, thereby producing a network and domino effect in a positive way.

No, this isn't how market and marketcap works. Marketcap is just price * supply, and price can easily reach high values as long as people refuse to sell. Imagine for a second that everyone removed their sell orders on exchanges and don't put any new orders. Bitcoin's price would go through the roof. It's just a hypothetical scenario, but at last stages of the bubble something like that can be observed - the price rises very quickly and people stop selling waiting for it to rise even more, which in turn makes the price grow even faster.



No. You can communicate with people via old iPhone just as fine.

Okay it took Bitcoin 12 years to reach up to around $1trillion market cap.
Apple reached $1trillion marketcap in 2018 and doubled it to $2trillion in 2020 in just 2 years!
What will it take for Bitcoin to double its marketcap to $2trillion resulting in $100k for each btc this year?
Where the extra $1000billion will come from to make this happen? Okay Elon Musk spent $1.5b but that leaves $998.5 billion left to go right?

Did the corona virus helped Apple to double its marketcap because the forced lockdowns meant more people needed to buy iphones to keep in touch with friends & family?

There's about £2Trillion helicopter money coming soon from the federal reserve printers, how much of this do you guys think from retail investors will go into bitcoin?