Topic: Bitcoin allows tax evaders, Please pay attention.... (Read 487 times)

In my country it is the same as the tax that you pay when you profit from some assets. Like for example if I give my fiat and get dollars, and then dollar goes up, I made a profit right? So, I sell my dollars and get back into my nations fiat, while doing that I pay a "tax" or you could call it a fee or whatever and that's how government makes a profit. Same as bitcoin and other crypto, if I get in at 100, and get out at 200, then the extra 100 dollars which is the profit gets taxed and that's it, if I get in at 100 and get out at 80, I made a loss and they charge me nothing.

If I get in, and never get out then I am never taxed, because it is unrealized at that moment. This is the most perfect way and we are very happy about it. Since I earn mine and not "profit" from trading, mine is charged like income which is not really that well and I am paying higher amount but it is fine so far, as long as it is legal and regulated.

Right! and just like fiat which is also a tool which could be used in all sorts of doings neither ethical or not either legal or illegal it wont matter.The one who should really be blamed off is into those people

who do make use of it on the bad or wrong way and on which once the community would able to see it then those common bad impressions would really come out which it isnt really surprising.

Due to anonymity and decentralized aspects then it isnt really that surprising that you would really be thinking off this way because you are really able to do so if you do wanted.
This is why government doesnt really like Bitcoin or crypto as a whole in the first place.

This is the fact, anyone entering the cryptocurrency space to evade tax will do so one way or the other. I am paying my taxes for the income i generate from this space and hence i am not worried about future issues regarding this.

This is a problem that is faced by many people in multiple countries, the government is leeching us and we as an end user is not getting the benefits of paying our taxes. But still we are paying them to avoid severe punishment in the form of fines and other terms.

You need to understand one simple idea - Bitcoin is just a tool, with some unique characteristics that distinguish it from many similar tools. But this does not mean that he was created only for the bad. He is a TOOL - and it all depends on what we will do to them. It's like a hammer - you can hammer in nails, carry out construction work, or you can attack a person and threaten his life, or go and break windows in a neighboring house. It all depends on which hands the hammer is in. The same is with bitcoin - yes, it is a "convenient" tool for hiding income or withdrawing illegal profits. Therefore, the state system wants to put in order the rules for its use.

I guess the point is in that question, why even try to avoid taxes?! If someone thinks there are good reasons for him to avoid taxes that person will do it anyway, doesn't matter which fiat/crypto currency he is using!
Well, I am not against paying taxes, I am paying a lot of them... but the government should return those taxes to us people, which is not exactly what is happening in my country! So I am not paying taxes on crypto, there aren't clear rules about crypto, and I am not running to them for explanations!

I wonder why I should embrace Bitcoin solely because I want to evade taxes. That to me is a lame idea. I embrace Bitcoin and Crypto at large because of the enormous potential I see in it.

Why to even try to avoid taxes? One's country provides oneself with so much privileges and hence I guess be it Bitcoin or just fiat, taxes are our duty, and also Bitcoin and most other crypto-currencies are created with missions like anonymity, decentralization etc., so I guess crypto is already a boon for us for all those perks it gives to us and we should be thankful for those only already yeah, if the government is taking huge taxes, I guess then surely some protests should be done

It is relatively difficult to draw the line whether what you receive is taxable or not, given that cryptocurrencies (or BTC to be specific) is taxable in the first place.

Unlike income, streams of revenues that are particularly categorized under the laws are taxable, cryptocurrencies have a league on their own in which a law must be passed in order for them to be taxable. Currently, most countries are silent on the status of BTC in their country (e.g. they chose to tolerate it, etc.). But once there is no law declaring it to be taxable, then I guess it is unfair to say that BTC allows tax evaders.

Actually, it depends on how the regulation is. I mean if in a country there is no specific regulation for paying crypto taxes, then why do we pay taxes? For example in my country, there are no specific laws for crypto taxes, the laws only stated monthly income tax. This tax is applied for people who have a minimum monthly income for a certain amount of money, if our monthly income is less than the criteria, we don't need to pay the tax. So, in this matter, we only pay monthly income tax, even we got the income from crypto. But it depends on how much the income, the tax is only applied for an individual who regularly gets a quite big amount of money. If we only get $100-$300 for a month, it is surely free of tax.

Permissible?

In general sense it wont be possible and they shouldn't impose mandatory tax if there are situations that it could be possibly permissible or sudden change of decision.We know on how taxes
is crucial thing on someones economy and its not really that they could just simply ignore.

For Bitcoin then it is a tool which other people do convert out their assets just for that some reason which is on evading tax but this isn't only the thing on where
we could make out some cons of bitcoin since we know that its pro's do really outweighs it.

It is not even about "being able to" stay away from paying taxes. You could literally just do all cash moves as well on p2p platforms like localbitcoins and similar places. That way you will pay with cash, get some money on your wallet, who knows who owns that wallet? Then you do cash deal with someone else to turn that back into fiat and keep doing that and nobody could charge you a tax unless you do it with some IRS worker.

In the long run we are talking about something that is bad for the nation, you could say that "$9 out of my $10 tax goes to corruption" and in many nations you would be right, but imagine if nobody paid, no police, no firefighters, no roads, no schools, no hospitals, basically NOTHING that government does would be able to, no welfare as well. It would be dream come true for a hardcore liberal capitalist, but everyone else would be losing money left and right and you would bankrupt quicker than a ball hitting the floor.

Tax evasion can only be permissible if the government is not serious and sincere about it, if they are sincere they won't allow for cheating but you may not know if those evading tax payment are people who are friends with government people and those who pay are usually the people not having connection in government. The whole of it goes to corruption. How a government is corrupt matters in the policy of government, implementation is key in government policy.

As much as taxes are unfair, we're obliged to pay them or face serious consequences in the long term. It's your duty as a responsible citizen to pay income taxes on all of your crypto trades and/or transactions. Bitcoin is not anonymous as many thought it would be, so it's easier for governments to track tax evaders on-chain. Most (if not all) centralized exchanges force KYC/AML, so evading taxes is practically impossible to achieve. The only way governments can't track tax evaders is if the person himself trades crypto through decentralized exchanges or performs all of his transactions through a privacy coin like Monero. But even so, you can risk yourself getting caught as not everything is perfect.

There are many countries which still hasn't recognized Bitcoin as legal tender, so there's a long road ahead before crypto/Blockchain tech grows deep into the mainstream. As long as there's cooperation between governments and citizens themselves, nothing will stop Bitcoin into becoming a global cryptocurrency used by the masses. Just my thoughts

I think this differs from one country to another. There are countries who declared bitcoin and crypto illegal in general which results to banning them altogether. There are also countries that are open with cryptocurrency, however, the government doesn't laid down all the rules and regulations yet which causes the tax to be not fully established in that state. So  in result, the people who are into crypto isn't paying the supposed tax they have to pay because in the first place, there isn't one implemented yet for everyone.

Meanwhile, there are also countries who are embracing crypto with all the rules and regulations already imposed properly. The governing and implementation of the leaders play a great role in the part of citizens paying their rightful taxes back to the state. If there isn't a clear law made specifically for that, then expect that there will be discrepancies in the way they would pay their taxes. Also expect some people to disregard their obligations to pay tax because of unorganized rules. Hence, it's really better to let the government think thoroughly ahead to bring significant services to the citizens through the crypto exchangers and platforms. That way, the latter would do their part for the economy as well.

In some other cases, there are really people who try to evade taxes mainly because it is so high and they are thinking of what the amount could do if only they won't be turn over to the authorities. In other terms, some people tend to be greedy. Let's all face it. We have tax obligations as a citizen of our country. We must do our part to pay it correctly. Otherwise, there will be no enough funding for important projects of the government. As much as we don't want to give them the tax because they just steal it anyways, let's just hope for the best and do our part. Remember, the tax you are obligated to pay is just balanced, fair, and just on the amount you are currently earning. Don't be too greedy. Let's not be like other politicians who are corrupt.

Exactly. It's much easier for governments to tax traders and/or investors through centralized exchanges since KYC is enforced. But the same cannot be said about decentralized exchanges and P2P trading platforms. I wouldn't say "Bitcoin allows tax evaders" simply because every transaction is highly visible on the Blockchain. There are some surveillance/analytics companies working for the government (Chainalysis) in order to help identify malicious actors on chain. So if tax evaders really wanted to do their thing, they'd simply switch to a privacy coin (like Monero) for complete transaction obfuscation.

I wouldn't recommend anyone doing this, since this goes against the law. You can face fines or jail time if you evade taxes. As long as you cooperate with the government, you'll have nothing to worry about. Just my opinion

I gave you 15 merits for this. I almost never give that many merits. But I like what you are saying.

The Bureau of Internal Revenue (or whatever you call that in your respective country) will likely target and audit individuals who are living the luxurious life. Like here in the Philippines, there’s one guy who was featured by a TV news network that he bought two houses because of Axie Infinity, so he was being paid attention to pay his correct taxes.

There are influencer couples like JaMill who also bragged their riches on Youtube. And when the BIR is announcing about influencers who needs to pay taxes, they immediately shut off their Youtube account, but it wasn’t enough for the tax collectors to chase after them. So they have no choice but to pay taxes and eventually restored their Youtube account.

So yes if we had BTC and other cryptocurrencies with big value, it’s better to stay low key and be humble. Just don’t be a luxurious person. At least a decent looking person would do but with big crypto portfolio.

That's exactly my point: money is not taxable. which is why the IRS typified cryptocurrency as "property", to be able to basically steal from American taxpayers. Any half witted attorney should have a field day with that.
Even in the US (which, as far as I know, has a very "stiff" tax policy), money is not taxed. Income is, and so is value added, but if you have the money and don't move it, nobody bothers you. And even then, you only pay taxes on your in country activity, which cryptocurrency is not. I do agree you should pay taxes if you use cryptocurrency to purchase something in the US, because, again, there's a whole apparatus set up to protect you. But in the case of crypto you're on your own.

I mean, don't get me wrong: I'm in Argentina, and we don't pay cryptocurrency taxes in here, so that stuff doesn't affect me. But it kinda sucks seeing people getting robbed like that by their own government.

I believe that sometimes it is the amount of tax that the government wants people to pay that leads to people trying to evade paying their taxes. In places where the government has required the people to pay an insanely high tax, the people would always try to steer from it completely.

Although I do know that there are people who would always avoid paying their tax no matter how small or big it is. And doing so with Bitcoin made it seem like it is quite possible but at the end of the day, most of the people who tries to do it ends up being caught by the government and also has to pay the taxes. And like you have said, lavishing to the extent that makes the government question their sources is part of what makes them get caught.

There has been talk of imposing crypto taxes in my country recently, but I haven't read any further about how that decision was formulated in recent days. So I think this is going to be an important thing for us to think about in the future.

Almost all countries seem to have corrupt governments and it's the same with me. It is true that taxes are a huge income in many countries where taxes allow certain individuals to commit corruption while they are working in the department. Every citizen must comply with tax regulation regardless of whether there are cases of corruption or not because it is an obligation that we must pay to the state. Sometimes it seems unfair, and this has allowed tax evasion to be practiced by some.

This is the situation most of us are in right now but if "I do not want to pay my taxes because I believe my government is corrupt" would be an acceptable reason to not pay taxes, then nobody in the world would ever pay taxes, even if they believe it is not corrupt, they will just say it is corrupt and they will avoid it. What you should do when you believe that your government is corrupt is not stop paying taxes but start being more active in the world of politics.

I did that once upon a time 2+ years ago, I joined a party and both gave feedback on how to get better and how to root out corruption within my own party but also showed resistance towards ruling party and basically worked on trying to end corruption. Obviously me alone is not enough, but if ALL good people around the world got into politics all at once suddenly, we would have a lot less worrisome corruption. That's how you stop corruption, not by stop paying taxes.

This has a point, but how about those employees who are paid a minimum wage? Consider that they are devoting nearly a day of their wage to paying taxes. Yes, as citizens, we should pay taxes, but what if the government is corrupt and we have no idea where our money is going? Now, the current administration, I can honestly say that there are no corruptions and that I have seen the government's projects, unlike in the past. But, whether we like it or not, we must pay taxes.

Tax evaders are mostly the people that has greedy behavior meaning they will not pay taxes for them to have something to spend for their desires, meaning it is only few of them knows how to treat it right.
They will Evade and then they will spend, bringing them to worst scenario .. that is the same thing for me that why need to evade taxes when this is just small part of your income? and at least you are not violating anything .

1. Anonymity
2. Decentralized
3. Investment returns

These are the most basic stuffs on why people do really mind off on dealing or recognizing bitcoins existence.No matter what we do
it cant really be avoided for us to get those benefits but of course there would be always some cons to that.
Doesnt matter though as long it could give us gains then this is where people matter the most.

Definitely true, if it wasn't for the anonymity cryptocurrencies offer, I'd have them deposited in a bank. The truth is, you're provided with immense capabilities in terms of what options you have for your money, without needing to declare that to anyone.

For instance, I've deposited most of my crypto on staking platforms, achieving an APY of 30% on average, while a bank , would provide you with 1-2% at most.

But cant really be denied that we are here mostly just because of being anonymous or being decentralized and non paying of taxes is someones choice and thats why government do really hate up that much on crypto
because they couldnt able to trace up into those people who do try to avoid taxes thats why they do focused out on centralized platform instead.

Im heavily agreeing on that cant directly be avoided because once we do deal up with this then expect that you could really get that kind of benefit or thing on letting yourself hide into the shadows.

If you are really that mindful in terms of paying tax then you could do it voluntarily or doesnt need for you to hide out.

You are making this way bigger than what it actually is, are there some people out there using cryptocurrencies that are not paying their due taxes? Of course, but the number of those people is very small compared to the number of people avoiding taxes by the use of cash or by using complex business structures and offshore banking.

The main issue that governments have with bitcoin is that it breaks the monopoly they had to print their own currencies, people finally have an option, and if given the chance they will select the best alternative out of the two, and with governments printing as much money as they want then it is obvious something like bitcoin in which this is not possible becomes more and more attractive as time passes.

Why shouldn't cryptocurrency be taxed? It's still money, that can be brought to the "offline world" and be used. I also own a decent amount of money in crypto, which I'd rather not have it taxed and will try to avoid it if possible. While I get the point of cryptocurrencies being decentralised and the freedom that comes with them, but we simply can't directly avoid it. We're living under a government with laws, which require you to declare any earnings you have.

Can anybody please explain to me why cryptocurrency should be taxed?

I know this sounds ridiculous, but for the life of me I couldn't find anybody to give me an answer that would make sense to that question.
I'm not talking about adding "creative tags" for it, with the sole purpose of stealing people's money. I'm talking about a real, legally plausible explanation for it.
As I understand it, taxes are, pretty much, the price citizens have to pay for the "privilege" ( ) of having a "state", or a bunch of people working at providing services for them and whatnot. So how is investing or trading in cryptocurrencies, that are mostly unregulated and offer no protection whatsoever to the investor/trader, a taxable activity?
I mean, if you buy an orange, there's a number of laws, and a whole apparatus destined to make sure you get an orange. If you trade in bonds, or etf's. the SEC is there to regulate the market. What's the excuse, in the case of cryptocurrencies?

Cash is, and will forever be the tool for tax evaders. Even if Bitcoin became the dominant currency, cash if still in existence would be used by criminals since there's no recorded record of it exchanging hands, unlike Bitcoin.

This isn't true in the slightest. If the governments wanted to brush up on their tax evasion detection via cryptocurrency it would be much easier for them than cash. Cash is literally the way to tax evade if you really wanted too since there's no public ledger. If you tax evade via cryptocurrnecy you're doing it knowingly leaving a trace. The criticism that Bitcoin gets for tax evasion is unjust. Its the people who use it, and cash that are tax evading, not Bitcoin or cash. I declare what I earn with Bitcoin just as I do with fiat, there's no difference since tax has to be declared by the person with the assets or via an accountant of theirs. The government expects that the individual declares it, Bitcoin or cash is not responsible for an individuals actions.

Cryptocurrency while sometimes being a little confusing, and adds a little more complexity to declaring the tax, well at least in the earlier days. Still, is expected to be declared by the government. It's the person who decides to declare it or not.

I've never really understood the need to tax evade especially when your stinking rich already, although I must say the tax over here in the UK at least goes to something I'm quite passionate about e.g the National Health Service (NHS which I like that my tax contributes to keeping it running.

One of the biggest problems of Bitcoin and all other crypto currencies is the problem of tax evasion. All countries know about the person's assets, but this is not possible when crypto money is involved. If there were no such situations, states would not stay away from bitcoin or other crypto currencies. I don't know how to overcome this.

It is not immoral to take advantage of the deductions given to you by the traditional tax system. Anyone that decides to pay more taxes than they're owed is a fool and deserves to lose their money. You pay taxes to the government, tell me -- do you view the governmental body as being capable of fiscal responsibility? When has any modern government ever been able to manage their financial system?No, that's why Bitcoin exists in the first place. Corporations avoid taxes because they generally reinvest their profits into the business.

Government targets crypto for tax purposes more than they target billionaires though, so if that isn't an indictment at how cozy politicians are with the elites, I don't know what is.

I think the final decision on whether or not to pay taxes on profits in cryptocurrency depends on how high the tax rate is and how difficult it is to practically determine the amount to be paid. In my country, it is planned to adopt a law that provides that individuals will be charged a tax of five percent, which is calculated as the difference between the sold cryptocurrency and the cost of purchasing it. With such a law, it makes no sense to evade taxes. But in some states the tax can be 20-40 percent and here, of course, there is something to think about.

While there are some people that have a problem with paying taxes I think the majority agree that something like it is necessary to keep our society running, the problem they have is that the taxes are so high that you are effectively a slave to the government for months each year of your life just to pay the government, and what is worse is that the governments are never happy and always want more taxes, so I think that there will be some people that will use bitcoin in that way denying governments from resources they need, forcing them to reduce their size.

Why even evade the taxes on bitcoin? We live in a century where we are free to do anything under human rights. You can live the way you want with only leaving behind the illegal stuff.

At least we are in the kingly rule where we have to pay taxes above our income or above our property evaluations. Plus you are free to regain the taxes at your retirement through pension schemes offered by government.

So why even bother paying taxes on the bitcoin income? If you are in bitcoin then most of them are here to earn profits, make some handsome money and live a dreamy life. It is not a tool to evade the taxes! Its a way to transact with unlimited amount of money, more or less in real time. If you are buying or selling then you should not be worried if it is legal. Just pay the nominal taxes and be happy.

But some people are just arrogant and just want to show and publish in their social media channels that they are into crypto. But it is their problem because they are opening themselves to government scrutiny. So if you want to keep your crypto life hidden, then, don't divulge anything in public. It is better to keep it to yourself or your immediate family. Also, if you are dealing with local crypto exchange, and usually, you need to verify your identity, are you already paying some type of tax as the local exchange is already paying tax to the government? I am still not clear on this matter.

Who the hell would really tend to announce or declare their income on crypto if government wont able to to trace or know into those people who do engage with crypto.

Its not surprising that this would be the main issue in talks about tax evasion and money laundering is always attached with crypto and these are the
main reason on why most government wont accept this one.

Its true that it does have its pros and cons but lets just focus now for its benefits.

That is the big difference in stocks and people like Elon and Jeff not paying too much taxes. They keep claiming that anytime they sell stocks, they are paying a huge amount of tax, sometimes as high as 50% and they claim that's good enough. Let's check it shall we? Elon paid a shit ton of taxes this year because he sold stocks, options that expired and some other stuff, billions upon billions of dollars, that's good right? Well he now worths over 300 billion dollars, at the start of the year that was under 200 billion dollars, less than half of what he worths now.

It means, even though he paid billions of dollars worth of taxes, he still gained 2x profit in a single year. What does that tell you? Does that mean he pays good enough taxes and he should not be asked for more? Or does that tell you that unrealized profits could be taxed and used for other stuff?

Holding itself isn't tax evasion, however, if I were to withdraw such amount of money, I'd have to declare where and how I obtained them. In the best case scenario, I'd have to pay approximately 20% in taxes, which I'd rather not. At least here, there isn't a solid taxation policy, however, any kind of deposit from a foreign exchange would trigger alarm bells.

I agree, but who do you think will announce your wallet in public? Here in our country, crypto is becoming more popular, and the government is following suit. A branch of the government here in country says that if you earn money online or in crypto, you must declare it in their office and pay tax, which leads people to believe that they should not declare that they hold a crypto and should remain anonymous online. This is a type of tax evasion that is extremely difficult to detect.

Bitcoin is not the best tool to evade taxes. While it is in theory anonymous, in practice the users can be traced and eventually prosecuted if a government is decided and really is after setting an example. There are much better options such as privacy oriented coins like Monero or Grin or other based on ToR.

There is some people still thinking that bitcoin facilitates evasion, like if it was not easy enough with cash. Have you asked yourself what are the 500 euros notes used for? It is certainly not to buy bread.

Complicated shit to talk , taxes feel like government robbed us... it's always like we forced to pay something that we might not wanted it. but if you use your human sense , a deep sense one that taxes are actially help other people indirectly.
but since the community day by day losing trust on government then yeah taxes always feel like a theft. and yeah as i said .. complicated shit to talk. if you want to pay the taxes voluntraily then pay it , if not then just use crypto!

hahaha i knew everyone here are joking right? taxation in crypto does exist!

It "allows" you to avoid if you want to, keep it in bitcoin for example and never take it out, and even while buying, you should try to be as hidden as possible, P2P is the best for that. However, it is a very bad thing to do and if nobody pays taxes then the whole world will be in chaos. Maybe you could think that government is inefficient and you are right, 100 bucks of tax usually ends up being 20 bucks efficient and 80 bucks corruption, and I would not be against saying that. This doesn't mean that we should avoid paying taxes because that 20% which is used properly is something that is very valuable and the world would be in big trouble if we did not pay that.

Lol is hodling some amount of coin regarded as tax evading Or I don't know that to be so. I feel when you sell off your hodling and keep it secret from tax authority then that can be a crime of evading depending on if the country is collecting tax on cryptocurrency but if hodling is also part of evading is still new part of it.

Governments do not really need to make bitcoin legal tender to charge taxes, they just need to recognize bitcoin as an asset that can be bought and sold like a stock while still forbidding its use as a currency, this difference is important because bitcoin at its core is a currency and while its use as a speculative asset is important what really gives it value are the characteristics that makes it a form of money, so governments can still try to get a piece of the action in the form of taxes and forbid bitcoin from circulating freely.

It's not easy to avoid taxes, if that's the concept.  But we can learn from Jeff Bezos who became an entrepreneur and did not pay taxes even though everyone knew how rich he was.  Whether it's fiat or crypto, as long as the intention is to avoid taxes, there must be a way. For example, when you have a company that has to pay taxes but you can avoid it by giving CSR to our foundation by covering up the management behind it.  This is often done by large companies, even state-owned companies.

I don't exactly get the point of this thread, tax evasion is a daily thing of fiat currencies too, I don't object that Bitcoin may also add one more mean of evading taxation. However, let's be real now, cryptocurrencies aren't the cause of tax evasion, it existed long before Bitcoin was created, everything else is just pure nonsense.

Don't get me wrong, I fully get your point, I'm also tax evading by holding a decent amount of cryptocurrency, which I'm not planning to declare anytime soon.

Wrong.... you can use Bitcoin to evade taxes if you steer clear of Bitcoin to Fiat conversion and if you are using Mixer services to cover your tracks. The thing is... when you do this, you spend "money" and if you spend money.. other people take notice and they start to talk.

The next thing you see are a bunch of people rocking up at your house to investigate suspicious criminal behavior (Finding probable cause like you selling drugs or for things like money laundering) and then they do a life style audit. If you cannot explain where the money come from to fund your life style.... then you are fuc$%ed. 

If you publicly announce your wallet address then yet everybody can track you but if you secretly do it then use the mixers trusted mixers to wash your transactions then maybe anyone can avoid by using this method. But if hard implementation will happen and chase those evaders then restrict mixers then maybe they can get those people hiding on cryptocurrency and oblige them to pay their taxes.

They can't use bitcoin to evade taxes, there's a public ledger that keeps track of all transactions so I don't see how they're going to be able to use it to evade taxes plus you can't move large amounts of bitcoin without a lot of people noticing so it's not going to be an easy task evading taxes using cryptocurrencies.

I do not believe that this is the case, because most are still afraid of a system that is generally very powerful and ruthless when it comes to taxes - and this has always been the case in human history. In addition, some ordinary people have really gotten rich by investing in cryptocurrencies over the years, and each government wants its share, as evidenced by the growing pressure on all centralized crypto exchanges in the form of increasingly stringent KYC.



From what is publicly known, there are those who invest significant amounts in Bitcoin, but I guess there is a rule for them to pay taxes only when they sell Bitcoin as well as for ordinary people. I may be wrong, but it doesn’t make sense to me that anyone pays taxes on unrealized profits.

It's true that if a person shows off too much, the authorities might notice. But I also don't see why it's a big deal to pay some taxes if you're really rich. The problem is, in many countries Bitcoin is still in the gray area, so people can't really pay taxes for it and yet feel like they should be careful with lifestyles. What you said can actually be used for good, as a counterargument that Bitcoin's a way to commit financial crimes. And I hope that eventually, reasonable taxation policies will be introduced and would allow people who have BTC to use it fully legally.

That's right, we both know about this.
I'm sure many of us here don't really care how the government sets the tax rules because we are not their main target given the amount of wealth we have. They only target large asset owners and enforce strict rules for them to pay taxes. I don't know much about institutional investors investing in bitcoin nowadays, is the pay taxes after making big profits during this year's bitcoin ATH?

They do really love on focusing on things alone with bitcoin without trying to look back  on whats currently happening on reality which even fiat does have that tax evasion bullshit problem and now they are trying to pass it up on bitcoin? They should resolve it first before pointing out fingers to it because it would really be just a total joke
or troll if they would really be trying to sue this one out as a serious issue. Is this something surprising? Government and media does really love
on stirring up thing just to make it look bad.

We know that the rules are not the same in all countries when it comes to Bitcoin taxation, so there really are people who can’t pay such a tax even if they want to. If they sell their BTC and start living luxuriously, should they worry about not paying a tax that doesn’t actually exist? I know that taxes are quite high in some countries, so I understand that people are figuring out how to avoid them - but if it's a 10% -20% tax rate, I see no reason not to pay and enjoy the rest of the money.

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Maybe most want it, but some would definitely choose a remote and quiet place, away from the crowds, dirty air, and water from a plastic bottle. Sometimes living in luxury does not mean being happy, because money can buy almost anything, but important things cannot be bought with money.

I don't see much point in the thread. The OP talks about tax evaders as if everyone who evades taxes does so in large quantities. There are plenty of people who don't declare small amounts because they know it's virtually impossible to get caught and prefer to save on taxes. So to those people, what the OP says about lifestyle does not apply.

And the big evaders already know enough and have tax advisors and lawyers, so I don't think they care much about what the OP says on the subject.

But tax evasion has been a thing prior to Bitcoin's existence though? It's not like it's a magical action that suddenly became possible due to Bitcoin being created. Tax evasion is an activity that's done by someone, not by something. So blaming Bitcoin is rather stupid really, not to mention that there's no central existence that governs over it. Besides, most countries are now making proper regulations with regards to crypto so I don't think tax evasion using it would be that rampart, especially since most exchanges require KYC now adays.

Obviously this depends a lot on the tax laws of a country but it is true what some of you have said that it is difficult to evade taxes with bitcoin because ultimately the government can track incoming and outgoing transactions when we use a centralized exchange.

While bitcoin allows us to remain anonymous, we basically can't do much when financial privacy is not maintained. Elon Musk and Michael Saylor will probably be the target of the tax regime for the assets and wealth they own, so they can no longer hide from taxes in my opinion.

Don't you think you are generalizing too much? It's not as if these tax evaders are that clueless. You have to somehow have a front. You simply cannot just live on your Bitcoin alone without paying taxes and without a business, without a job, without anything and yet have everything in terms of lavish lifestyle. That would be suicide. That's like knocking on the tax bureau's door itself.

The only ones who can efficiently evade taxes are the ultra rich and not those in the middle and lower middle class, so no, I don''t think using crypto and living within ones means can help save you in your tax evasion case. The government is actively monitoring your purchases, and all your profits, salaries, and whatever properties you purchased. They have their eyes locked on people's spending and kid you not they will try to prosecute you than they would the ultra rich.

Bitcoin transactions are viewable via public ledger. Which is debatably an open and transparent format. Intended to make life harder for tax evaders, criminals and money launderers.

Transparency in budgets, finance and economics used to be a hot topic. When Barack Obama was first elected President in 2007. One of his first moves was to establish a website that made federal government spending more transparent. There was a website people could visit to see how state funds were being allocated & spent. Of course as expected, no one paid any attention to this. It was the polar opposite of watchdogs on big btc transactions today. But it is an interesting historical landmark. And perhaps evidence of how former US Presidents like Barack Obama might support bitcoin's public ledger system on an ideological level. If only they understood it better.

Its actually one of the cons i would say on governments perspective and thats why they do really tend to crack up into those crypto users and since it cant

be possible then this is where they do focused on regulating platforms which is attached to crypto and we know that people cant make out fiat
conversions or buys if they wont tend to comply on whats been asked.

Tax evasion is one of the most common problem and the thing on why government do hate up crypto as a whole.

Bitcoin is perfectly useful for tax evasion, as it is the US dollar, diamonds and many other stuff that has value. Tax evasion is not as much about choosing the vehicle as it is about actually willing to take the risk of doing it. The relation with bitcoin is that people who made a decent fortune with bitcoin may decide that they do not wish to pay taxes to a government that somehow did not put any into it and only gets the rewards. In that case, crypto is useful because it allows you to be pseudo anonymous and perhaps changing your fiscal residency before cashing out.

Not only to me but I think it was clear to everyone that since bitcoin will bring the users economic freedom where they can avoid paying tax, the governments will surly try to somehow detect the bitcoiner and the people who earn with bitcoin to get tax from them, the whole point is the governments are based on the tax we pay and they cannot survive without of the taxes. Imagine you become a millionaire from bitcoin and you try to buy a luxury house and car, this can be obvious for any government to track you can make you pay the tax over the money you spend.

Centralized exchange, this is the result of government regulations to find out who owns the most assets and who will avoid taxes. The government may not impose a tax on bitcoin like most other properties, but it can impose an income tax on any bitcoin user (trader or investor) or on anyone who is a qualified taxpayer even if the government does not legalize bitcoin as a legal currency.

_BlackStar, if you live in any country of law then you must obey the rule and must not break them because it will only make you accept the consequences. Governments have so far managed to control most bitcoin users, but they cannot control bitcoin transaction. Bitcoin is also not made to be the enemy of government regulation, but this asset allows us to take advantage of alternative payment networks that are much better than fiat.

Haha, but how did they become rich in the first place then? Rest assured the rich people are hiding so much money that you can't even imagine. I talked about that before. Check out the scientific research by Gabriel Zucman and you will see that it's the rich people who are hiding money and other assets. Does that surprise you? I mean they are able to pay the best consultants, best lawyers and have the strongest networks across the whole globe. That makes much more sense to assume that those people evade taxes than the ordinary Joe from around the corner who could only hide some cash in his basement.

How can government take the taxes on bitcoin if they had not made it legal ?
The only way government can tax on bitcoin and crypto currencies, if they make it a legal tender and make regulations on crypto taxes. Unless they don't do it people will keep on enjoying the tax evasion as there is nothing documented legally about crypto tax.

Honestly in most countries you are paying higher taxes if you are holding bitcoins and at the same time you have to also realize that, it's more or so impossible to evade the taxes because most of the wallets now require KYC done which does mean that without KYC you would not be able to do anything else and the government would know about your investments as well.

- In very few countries bitcoins is not taxed and there as well, the rules and regulations are changing as well, therefore the government is now doing everything they can to catch such people.

If you do KYC then you have to submit your documents which does mean that it would be connected to your tax payer id which would be connected to your bank account as well.

NO.The main problem with tax evaders is the fact that they are committing a crime+their greed.
All the rich people can live a luxurious life without trying to hide their income and trying to avoid paying taxes.
The problem is that they want more and more.
It's 10 times more difficult for middle class and working class people to commit tax evasion crimes.They simply don't have good tax accountants,offshore bank accounts,fake companies,etc.
Bitcoin has nothing to do with this.Maybe some tax evaders are using BTC to commit tax evasion crimes,but the vast majority of the tax evaders are using the fiat financial system for tax evasion.

It is not the year 2011 or 2013 when governments did not learn to meet and thus impose taxes, but many countries develop their tax regime to become all bitcoin transactions need to be reported. In other words, when they achieve profits will pay taxes.
Generally, within 10 years and increased bitcoin network analysis  tax evasion will not be particularly high if governments issued Min tax report.

A government can effectively monitor the income of those that are dependent on it even if they use Bitcoin. It could build tools to track how their dependants use what the government gives to them. Funds could be given to the dependants on the condition that it will be monitored and taxed, unless they nolonger want the free money.
I wonder if a government have the rights to tax those that are independent of it?  I think the independent ones should be free from the system spying on their wealth/values. After all, physical money do offer higher level of Anonymity and has been doing so for thousands of years. The independent/free people should benefit from the anonymity. They owe the government nothing.
The government can however beg the independent ones to support them through voluntary contributions. They could also be charged indirectly when they use facilities built by the government rather than unnecessarily spying on their crypto/bank accounts

The problem of tax evasion when working with cryptocurrency has been discussed for a very long time and, in principle, it is relevant. True, for many, this problem still does not exist, since many states have not yet legalized cryptocurrency and have not decided on the tax on it. However, in those countries where the competent authorities have already established such a tax, we are faced with a choice - to pay or to evade. I believe that if the tax is small, then it is better to pay it and work calmly. If it is prohibitively large, then most likely our decision will depend on the degree of possibility of such a deviation. Here, everyone must make an independent decision.

But does to meet the lifestyle, one has to bring everything from abroad? And can you just get away with excise taxes?

To this day, Bitcoin is still completely useless in countries where it is illegal to pay (if it refers to the purpose bitcoin was created for). And that's the fault, the government didn't embrace bitcoin from the start, so after reaching large caps they felt aggrieved. And keep in mind, bitcoin is not really anonymous, but more transparent. There is no reason to evade taxes with bitcoin.

Depending on the tax laws of a particular government but it is difficult to trace accurately because evaders will always find their way.to run away from paying tax. What government can do is to conduct a registration of payable tax in bitcoin and do a link to the bank account of the payer but even with that, the exact amount to pay is not verifiable because some wallet can be concealed from the agency.

On a second thought about living a luxurious style, the way of life of some people won't be stopped because they own bitcoin or not. Some make wealth from different angle including trading and excluding hodling 

Bitcoin is not a new phenomenon in this century because after bitcoin was launched there were quite a number of other altcoin following it and competing to this day. Bitcoin's decentralization has so far always been the reason why many governments of the world dislike it because of its potential to be anonymous and can be transacted pseudonymically. These things are always used as reasons why the government issues regulation for bitcoin users to comply with the law so that there are not many cases of abuse.

There is some constant discussion about the possibility that tax evaders may really like bitcoin but in reality it is still difficult for most users to do because of the influence of lifestyle and desires. On average we want to have a luxurious life, have a car, have a house, and something expensive if we have a lot of bitcoin. This is a natural human instinct so it becomes an advantage on the part of the government in detecting abuse. The reported treasures may not match one's lifestyle so this suspicion will only end in an in-depth investigation to reveal the motive behind it.

The main problem with tax evaders is lifestyle, so I think this is a unique reason why tax evaders really didn't make it with bitcoin in the end. In the end I truly believe that if we still desperately want to live lavishly on bitcoin and other assets to avoid taxes, then this is really not going to work because sooner or later the government will smell it. After all governments can still get evidence from blockchain if they want to conduct an investigation into this matter, so consequences are always there if someone wants to use bitcoin to evade taxes.


If you want to avoid taxes with bitcoin, then never live in luxury and minimize your lifestyle. This a Jokes.