Topic: Bitcoin and cash are more important than ever. (Read 242 times)

Yes, cash and Bitcoin!

Cash I believe is still the best. By cash I mean cold cash, paper bills. Cold cash means less hassle, wider permission, less monitoring, and so on. Making online financial transactions involves a much longer process, confirmation, approvals. It is also more expensive with all the processing fees, admin fees, and other fees.

Bitcoin is the cash version online. Permissionless. Censorship-resistant. No problems like declined transactions, refusal to swipe, spending limit, and so forth.

Why waiting for 2 confirmations with 20 waiting minutes but not 1 confirmation and 10 minutes?

Ive digested your apprehensions, and share a few. The idea of baring our financial particulars to another private entity does seem like a security trap looming. However, blossoming fintech does dangle the carrot of enhanced ease and streamlined dealings. Checking the controls in place is key. Your Bitcoin conjecture intrigues, but I remain unconvinced that it's a central bank experiment. Yet, the financial titans have undeniably harvested wisdom from its design, likely propelling CBDCs.

Your take on the EU and WEF reveals deep suspicion towards international bodies. Alongside policy scrutiny, it's vital to weigh the possible benefits of a globally cohesive financial framework. The 'Veil of Tiers' is complex, but amidst regulatory amendments, these architectures might have to adjust. We're amidst massive shifts, and vigilance is critical.

Well waiting for 2 confirmations could take 20 minutes, and if you set a low fee during a busy time, then it could take longer for your transaction to be incorporated by a miner. Contrast that with a Visa credit card payment, or a faster payments transfer, both of which are virtually instantaneous, and you can see that for the bulk of the population Bitcoin is a bit slow. Couple that with the price volatility, and you can see why Bitcoin is unlikely to gain mass adoption for daily shopping payments. Of course there are enormous benefits to be derived from using Bitcoin as a medium of exchange, but those seem to be greared towards investment payments and wealth transfers and preservation. This is why I believe it is a currency for the wealthy dynasties rather than the masses. It's a bit like goild. The wealthy can deal in tons or pounds of goild, but we are still able to take advantage of the benefits of gold by using coins, but not for everyday shopping.

I'm not really a Bitcoin expert, as I haven't read the white paper, and I  hgaven't looked through the source code for nodes and wallets. I was also a few years too late in joining this forum. This means that I don't really have an informed opinion, just a gut reaction to the way Bitcoin fits into the diverse economies of the world. As a result of this, it seems probable to me that Satoshi was really a working party for a group of investment houses and/or governments (read puppets for the elite dynasties). The retained 1 milliuon Bitcoin is also a bit suspicious, and I wonder if it is being kept for price stabilisation a some later date.

Or any kind of fee (except for ridiculously low ones).

See, here's the thing about transactions: You don't necessarily have to wait for 6 confirmations to have it processed. That's just the worst-case scenario when there is a large mining group trying to control at least half of the hash power. For most real-world use cases, 3, 2 or even 1 confirmations work just fine, although some people will shy away from 1-confirmation transactions because of block reorgs.

You have been exposed to the control system brought about by digitalization and you are already followed every time you use your credit card. Even if you buy water from the market with your card, this will not change. The same will continue to apply to your online shopping. The usage areas of cash are getting narrower and paying with cash today carries security risks. We have to use digital payment systems. I see no reason why Bitcoin or cryptocurrencies should not be payment system intermediaries with digitalization and i prefer places where i can pay with bitcoin.
This is where the governments go off and cannot follow you. But how much can you manage your life by paying with bitcoin. What percentage of your urgent needs can you meet by paying bitcoin? The important thing is to establish a system that will expand the use of cryptocurrencies in commerce as soon as possible or your digital payments will continue to be monitored.

I think government following where your money goes is something they have been doing since the start of banking and digitialization. I mean it has been digital for a while so they have been checking it forever as well. I think it's quite obvious that we shouldn't be really doing anything that bothers people like this, because it's not going to be a simple thing.

The best thing to do in this case would be making sure that you are doing what is yours and what you should be doing, which is bitcoin and cash, that way you will be avoiding any type of trace, if they want to then they possibly could, but it would take a while before you could do that, I think it is not impossible but you are making their task a lot more harder that way, otherwise KYC makes sure they know you too, just harder to track.

Cash is important for making small purchases it is fast and you don't need to pay the network fees. I don't why people want to pay with bitcoin for small transactions it is more stressful for both parties. I have seen many threads on people receiving payments on grocery stores with bitcoin, but the faster payment does not mean when you have the option of using cash go for Bitcoin payment.

Each country have different systems though some might be the same. Anyways, I do agree with you that cash is important because some store in my country doesn't have any online payment method and only cash is accepted. There are online payment in my country but the payment method is the same as a wallet in case crypto but the only currency in the wallet is the fiat currency that's why I agree that cash is important. Bitcoin is important too and I don't need to explain why because you guys already know why.

Well, Bitcoin will only help when used correctly. With it you'll most likely be guaranteed privacy on a possible privacy-friendly p2p decentralized Investment Network, even if your private info is collected. The decentralized Investment Network could have fellow participants who do businesses in UK on alternative UK or Global bond, which you can safely patrionize.   Otherwise a company could just allow transactions with Bitcoin on centralized platform that ends up demanding for your private information which could be viewed by anyone who controls the centralized platform.  

If it becomes necessary to provide one's private information on a decentralized Bitcoin investment Network, it will most likely be handled in privacy friendly manner, probably by the system bot simply confirming that the information provided matches with your real ID without revealing it to anyone else.   I think sometimes it may be necessary to provide such private information, but what matters is whether it's accessed and handled safely.

In regards to using cash, that depends on the kind of cash it's about (Physical fiat or physical Bitcoin?) . Don't forget who owns the fiat system. They could request for your private inform from the intermediary when you go to pay with cash by making it part of their licensing agreement. So using the fiat system to preserve privacy is not viable long-term. And it can't be decentralized unlike Bitcoin.

I see it more as passing the buck (or in your case the Quid).
All payment services are outsourced and linked to other places so when something goes wrong it's a problem or issue with the other person (or company).

In NY you have 1 SSO login that gets you to your Taxes, your DMV, your health insurance (if through NY) and a few other things.
When it works it works well. When there is an issue it's never with the DMV site (just picking on them) it's with the SSO that is provided by someone else, or the back end API provider or.....
Even though it's painfully obvious the other sites are working and it's a DMV issue.

-Dave

I don't think that they will take any action against the company because they have added that intentionally and they already know that the company can access the details of the customers. I think they incorporated the measures to prevent fraud in the first place, but I'm surprised to see that why they asked about your personal details which doesn't make sense because the banks already have all the information of a user who has opened an account in their banks. I think they will not misuse the data and they will only use it for confirmation purposes. The company is their banking partner and they will now use it as a gateway for payments if I'm not wrong.



Ah, let's believe if that's a reality then in that case Satoshi was also the representative of the Central Banks and performed everything so wisely just to make people believe that he's a programmer who just created Bitcoin and gave it to public as a new class of currency. That's your assumption and I respect that, but if that's a truth then things could be different after the introduction of CBDC's and they may be a great competition for other crypto-currencies that aren't created by the banks.

This does look like an unnecessary amount of steps, and of course it might mean that it's made for surveillance, but IMO there isn't enough evidence just based on this information to say that this is the reason. My first thought would be that it's just unnecessary bureaucracy. I've looked at NS&I google reviews, and people say it's just a very inconvenient service, although some do mention it's the newly introduced changes that make it so.
Also, the issue seems to relate to the UK and this service specifically, not generally, although here I'd add some of my own experience as well. When I lived in the UK, I opened a Revolut account, using a UK phone number, and the account is in GBP. The experience has always been great, but over the last month or so, Revolut keeps popping up a question, asking for what purpose I use the money in this account or something like that, providing 4 generic reply options and not allowing to go further before choosing an option there. And it's not a one-time question, it just keeps reappearing all the time. So on that note, I agree cash and BTC are important and that perhaps the UK does have new requirements for banks to monitor and question what their people are doing.
Thankfully, in my home country the banks are very chill and really don't seem to care unless you cross a certain financial threshold, which I never do because you need to be pretty wealthy and regularly make big payments to cross it.

Well I've had a stropp, and registered an official complaint about a fourth party demanding access to my bank details. We'll see if it gets any reaction in the official response. The current attitude is that the extra company is a trusted reliable source with accreditatation from a bunch of financial watch dogs( I probably don't trust them either, given the way the pound is being trashed). In my mind, trust is gained by observing actions, and not listening to rhetoric. Looking into people's bank accounts when you don't need to is not trustworthy behaviour imho.

"The central banks" is very vague, referring to no one in particular. If collection of banks from different countries wanted to create something like bitcoin they would not go about it the way satoshi did, it would be more the way CBDCs went but with no specific bank backing it.

I do not also wait 30 minutes before transaction confirmation when i use medium priority fees.

- Jay -

There is so much fraud around, that I don't want open banking, I want private banking. There was a perfectly good and efficient system in operation for several years. It involved my bank, Visa and the NS&I. Visa introduced an intermediate verification check, and this required me to obtain an authorisation code by inserting my debit card into a plastic nreader, and entering my pin. It wsas efficient, and I thought it was secure. Now it seems the UK government is insisting that a fourth privately owned organisation is introduced into the transfer. They asked for access to my account, and this had never been requested befoire. I'm going to write to my bank and askj for all details of the information they downloaded. In theory they could obtain details of all my credit card transactions for the last year, and other sensitive information. Although the organisation is UK based, the site is hosted in the US ( Iowa ), and the web site designer appears to be Spanish. The NS&I purport to be big on security. For example, they log you out if you use the bsack button, but then they introduce this massive security risk by insisting that I give my banking details to a new organisation with non-UK associations. I'm going to open a non-associated bank account to make these payments, and I'll transfer the money from my main account befiore submitting the payment request.

There is some background to my concern. I believe that Bitcoin was created by the Central Banks as an experiment, and the 30 minute lag for payment confirmation, together with the total of 21 million coins createdwith the foundation block, were intended to ensure that Bitcoin was unsuitable to become a global currency for daily use. However it does mnake it a great store of wealth. The Central Banks must have learnt a lot from observing Bitcoin, and it has prepared them to introduce some CBDCs. Also, I believe that the European Union was created as an experiment designed to fail, and we can see that they are now implementing policies to cause this failure. We can also see that the WEF is moving to create a currency that will rfeplace the US Dollar and the Eurio, and to sit alongside the UK Pound. They are working to destroy the dollar to facilitate this change. The can't destroy the Pound, as over 60% of the Western world's wealth is contriolled by the City of London, and interest rates are quoted in relation to LIBOR. The wealth holdings are held in a structure known as the Veil of Tiers. These are pyramids of holding companies many of which are in UK tax havens. If Sterling were to be replaced, then most of the contracts in these holdings would have to be rewritten and renegotiated.

If the the cash is in your hand to pay for the goods then cash payment is the fastest because there will be no network delay but whereby you are to pay the thing in a distance place then digital payment is the fastest. Because at that you don't have to stress yourself to the shop and pay the thing but you sit in your house pay the goods. I don't think there will be a time that everyone in the world will use digital currency exchange. Of goods and services. What about the old people, they can't do that so fiat currency will be there to assist the age to get what the want at all time.

I answer the questions asked while transferring or depositing money in a similar way. They've been asking this for a long time and they keep their statistics. If this issue had not been brought up, I would not have paid much attention to it. Because they've been doing this for years and I haven't seen any negatives. If you are dealing with large sums, you are already stuck in certain systems and questioned. Other than that, he's just paranoid. Today, inquiries or follow-ups made in this way are a necessary condition for banking or different systems.

Cash has always been very important because of its availability to use when the need arises and we cannot underestimate the power of cash like Bitcoin. Bitcoin transactions are not as fast compared to the cash at hand and this is due to strict rules around validation which is understandable because every country wants to put checks in place so as to regulate the inflow into its country. In years to come, Bitcoin will gain more popularity and importance.

Surely there's always advantage and disadvantage between cash and digital fiat, but the technology is always moving and there's might be a time where all business would only accept digital fiat, people who have cash need to go to banks and convert it to digital fiat.

After all Bitcoin is still become the best solution regarding the convenient to hold, secure and fast transaction.

Isn't it aimed more at businesses rather than individuals?

But what Ecospend is doing is admirable. I think open banking and multiple ways to pay is something that is convenient for users especially when managing risks or something.

But do people realize they’re getting more important? I think they aren’t! They’re still blindly using card and joining all these money saving programs known as loyalty cards givig away all information to corps and governments. Unless they unblind themselves, I think this invasion of privacy will only continue and progress.

In my country, I know of a few people whining about their banks starting to introduce mandatory selection of reasons for depositing cash on your own account at several ATMs. That’s true, you insert your own banknotes in the ATM to deposit into your own account and before you’re allowed to do so, you’re asked for the source of funds or reason of deposit. How does that sound?

The dystopia I’ve been trying to avoid and hope will never come is probably so much closer than it looks and sounds!

In the time we have now and with the technology we are facing, we are really in a modern age. And now the whole world is gradually accepting innovations when it comes to digital payments as well, and Bitcoin is the main one here, although money is still the dominant need of people in all countries.

And it cannot be denied that many big investors are saving up and buying Bitcoin because they see great potential in the future that the chances are high that it will give a good profit to our capitals that will be used here.

From what i have observed, Uk government had took some sever restrictions towards crypto industry plus any payment system than any other country like USA. This not really surprised me, because in our side when we make any transaction towards banks they only ask the purpose of it and i always select the family support option. The point is, yeah i also agree with you that Government do want to control the flow of your money and do want to know the reasons of it.

As the intermediate website is also belong to UK enterprises. Well, i think you need not to worry because UK government is already know alot about their citizens. Idk why they are so strict about it.

I decided to give myself a birthday present of £100 worth of premium bonds. I started the payment request on the NS&I website, and I have done this several times in the past using my card reader. It's usually fairly straightforward with only one request to use the card reader. This time was different, as it took me to an intermediate site run by a company called ecospend - here is their public sector declaration. https://ecospend.com/public-sector/
This is obviously a foretaste of things to come. It first asked me to use my card reader to create a one time code, and it used that to access my account, and told me my current balance - well I already knew that. Then it took me to a page and asked a load of questions with personal details, and the purpose of the payment. It then went through the normal payment process on the card reader to take the money. Previously I got immediate notification of the transfer in my NS&I account. I did all this over an hour ago, and I still haven't received notification. I phoned Nationwide ( my bank ) to check on the payment, and everything seems to be legitimate. This seems to be the start of a move to a new  payment system, and government surveillance of the way we use our money.

Watch this thread for more details.