Topic: Bitcoin and non-formal workers (Read 355 times)

Over the past week I have met 4 of my friends who are currently civil servant. I tried to ask 3 question about whether they know about crypto, are they willing to invest, and what do they think about it.

I know the result will not surprise me because all the friends I tried to ask the question knew nothing about crypto even though they had heard of bitcoin and read about it in the newspapers. No one is interested in investing even though I have explained how price up have occurred over the years since launch. Only 1 important point that I summarize as the reason and that is his fear of investment scam as is happening a lot in my country. Although they explain that there is no prohibition on crypto from their agency they work for, but that reason is one of the determinant why they are not much involved in this investment. Yes I need a lot of data to be able to assume more broadly about this, but this is just an opinion based on people I have met.

For now my thread is locked. Hopefully the market will recover faster after today's correction.

i'm not sure if your data is accurate but based on my observations around me that all circles are currently thinking about investing in crypto, but the most difficult thing to convince to want to invest in crypto is formal employees maybe because they are more obedient/afraid of the government.  bitcoin has become an investment that threatens other investments and both formal and informal workers should start trying to invest in bitcoin.

It's impossible to know precisely such data, because most people dealing with crypto currency don't reveal their identity to surveys which could reach to a conclusion in numbers.

My guess is that formal workers are the main potential investors, because they already have a fixed income that can be easily applied in bitcoin investment.

On the other hand, non-formal workers are the ones who most seek for crypto opportunities to earn an income from, and only later invest on it, when they have a spare amount of money to risk, after paying for all their monthly expenses.

Then, I don't see there are more formal or non-formal workers in crypto universe, because all of them have found opportunities to make profit through bitcoin and altcoins. And no, there isn't any restriction forbidding public employees from dealing with crypto currency.

I would guess that the amount of "anything" that you own is public record in many nations if you are a public servant. That means that you need to reveal the crypto that you own, fiat that you own, the investments, stocks, gold, real estate and whatever else. Which is why I believe that we could probably see some public servants either hiding the crypto that they own, or they just let it be known and that's it.

Since, almost every major exchange has KYC requirements, it would be very hard to hide something like that. This is why I believe that most people actually do have some sort of crypto that they let people know in that sector.

What I believe here is that lack of information and lack of trust is the main cause that hampers people from making investments in the crypto market. A bunch of people had faced scams in their past experiences due to which they aren't willing to invest in crypto markets as well. Also the crypto market isn't affiliated with the government as well due to which it's not getting much trending in many such people.

I think this has to do more than anything with their way of thinking, those that work for the government will support policies and laws the government pushes as they see themselves as part of the government and they see the benefits they can obtain with it.

And even if they do not see themselves in that way it is very difficult for a person to go against their self-interests, and since bitcoin is independent from the government they could see it with bad eyes, which is why most of the people you find trading and using bitcoin on your everyday life are independent workers, as by necessity they have adopted a more flexible way of mind and they see in bitcoin a tool for them to reach their goals.

Formal workers do spend time working in the office for 8 hours, especially if the office is far from where they live, time is up on the trip, be a formal
workers until the house is tired. Meanwhile, on weekends, formal workers spend time with friends or family, then they will have no time to
learn cryptocurrency. I agree with you, it seems like all countries will be like that. So it is not surprising that the majority of crypto investors are not
formal workers. Especially in a country that is a third world country whose economy is still bad, there are still many people who can't afford to pay
internet bills. So they can't get any information regarding crypto, whereas people who can access the internet more easily get opportunities to earn
income. This is one of the reasons why in the world there are still many people who do not know Bitcoin, because most people do not have time to
find information about Bitcoin.

There are definitely no restrictions regarding governmental employees investing, trading, or taking up a second job in crypto (or any other line of work) in my country. However, the safety government employees feel regarding not being able to get fired, having a steady income, and so on, might give those people a false sense of security and when people have that, they tend to not rush or even think about alternative ways to earn money. So that could be the case.

Well, one thing is for sure why most Government employees doesn't usually get involved in cryptocurrency is because they are so focused on their job and they can't even turn their attention to any other investments that has a good percentage of returns.
Even those who are in the corporate world, most of them doesn't even get involved in cryptocurrency (here in my place).
Most people who is invested in crypto are those part time workers and business men who has enough time to check the market and do their due diligence.
These are just some of the most obvious reasons. However, there were still few people who can still find time to get involved in crypto even with the full time day job, I myself are one of those.

In my country there are still few crypto users, but from the local forums that I follow, many who work in cryptocurrencies are mostly not formal workers like you mean, facts like that of course are almost the same in any country because when someone is busy with formal work, they will not have time for cryptocurrencies and cryptocurrencies of course need special skills, especially knowledge about investments such as trading.

For me, it's alright for this government employees to do trading or other crypto related trading as long as it doesn't conflict with their working hours and they don't do it during their work then it's not really not that bad. My standard if it's acceptable is if it doesn't hinder your work and you don't hinder others then you're good to go.

It's also true that people who are involved in cryptocurrency are mostly people who work part time,
Of course it's not without reason because if someone who already has a permanent job either in government or in a company it seems they don't have time for part time in crypto and are really busy

I don't have any info about the amount of public service emplyees interested in crypto in my country.
Actually,I do believe that almost no public service worker is going to reveal that he is investing in cryptocurrencies.Perhaps most of them still think that this is something illegal or shady.
Most of the crypto investors are freelancers,digital nomads and business owners.They are much more tech savvy and more open towards innovation and new technologies.The government clerks and public service employees are usually more conservative and traditionalist(there's nothing wrong with that).

Bitcoin manang is not included in the formal variety, but although the nonformal work done by Bitcoin users has a structured, terms and results that are highly valued by many people in this world and have a tiered value after carrying out the assessment process to the international level.

Although Bitcoin work is included in the nonformal category, Bitcoin is very functional in potential investment values, trading, mining in development, knowledge, in the crypto world as it is today professionally.

Although Bitcoin is an nonformal venture, Bitcoin can serve as an alternative, addition or complement to human beings in supporting people invest all the time, in lieu of formal work.

Majority of the users in my country come from freelancing and take bitcoin as a source of income for part time earning and then sell it on exchanges to get fiat since they dont have any avenue of spending bitcoin directly to a merchant.

Jobs that pay directly in bitcoin are still a dream for the average bitcoin user outside countries like US. For the lower economic countries it will always remain a dream unless there are changes from the side of the government to regulate and become lenient about crypto transactions.

I am hopeful that it will be better in future for those who are willing to get paid in crypto. Since it is deflationary, we might see fiat based salaries to be bigger in amounts and rewards than bitcoin based salaries.

Many of my online friends are making more money than I am, even though they're still in school, and they're also getting a diploma that will help them in the future. Since I have a daughter, I need money, and I have a full-time job online, but I also have a side hustle in crypto, which has been a huge help to me and my family. We all know that a lot of people are in dire need of a job right now, and we should be grateful for our side hustles and our current situation.

Having a full time job and a side hustle at the same time in this time of pandemic is very much needed because of the crisis but it is not already a surprise for me that I have known many of my colleagues and friends associated with bitcoin or cryptocurrency are part time freelancer and some are full time like me. In my case, I am a full time crypto trader and investor and a student at the same time. During pandemic, the surge for the people finding job in internet gets high and what's good about it is the compensation also competitive provided you have a skill that you can offer, also the surge of people aiming to get profited in crypto gets high that's why I feel glad that during this pandemic people have found crypto's value and worth.

Cryptocurrency related services being legal is really good, and I don't think government employees spend on cryptocurrency investment. As per prevailing scenario of my country, government employees were much into mutual funds, stocks and majority were into gold. Maybe now with the easier access more government employees might've got into cryptocurrency investment.

Right now blockchain developers around the globe is very limited. Even the private firms doesn't have adequate number of blockchain developers. For this reason private companies are conducting training sessions to educate employees for the need.

It is interesting you arrived at this generalization. You made me think of my own crypto circle. And I guess I could also jump into the same generalization that considerably many, perhaps around 90% as well, of my crypto friends and acquaintances are also not formally employed. They're either self-employed, or into various businesses, or fully immersed in crypto activities.

I myself am not formally employed. My older brother who is deeply into crypto is also not formally employed. Our close friends who are also well-exposed to crypto are also not formally employed. I could even observe that those who are least exposed to crypto among my friends and acquaintances are those who are formally employed.

Now, I think it is about availability of time and commitment. I could say that when you decide to pursue crypto fully, you would be confronted with the choice whether to remain with your demanding full-time job or resign. That happened to me, my brother, and many of his and my friends. And we chose to resign, got into business where we have a great hold of our time, and went into crypto more or less fully.

Having a full-time job in my country is like a master that demands almost all your time, energy, attention, and so on. It is next to impossible to pursue something else religiously while having a full-time job.

government worker will busy with their job, but im sure if people out there play this game.
im agree with your thought, most of us maybe just part timer, freelancer, or they work on company that dont have any relate with government.
my old school friend play bitcoin after they graduate, or in collage, and im join after knowing more. most of us know that this salary great than you work on company, but you must run on it. people have different survival ways, and this method is one of the other.

It's has now become a survival arena place for many in place since we have suffered many lacks of job opportunity, the government has pushed harder to eliminate cryptocurrency from the public but the youths don't have an alternative as there are no jobs, the number unemployment in the country is higher than the available jobs that's why everyone has embrace crypto as safe havn.
The last time I check, even the politicians are also having big investment in coins like bitcoin, ethereum, and bnb. Crypto is run literally by every housjere I think.

It's better to inverse in bitcoin for the short period to get good profit in January. Every year is time to add up your investment with some dollars. Keep do it, untill it reach of of 1 Bitcoin. Which is essential one for our life.With this your life will be settled in future. You can get profit at many times using this holding 1 bitcoin. Whenever you need of money

There is none in my nation, there is no law stating that civil servants in my nation can't own bitcoin, in fact there are even few government related branches (minor) that used their funds to buy bitcoin so that they could profit from it (usually pension funds). However that doesn't suddenly made everyone jump into bitcoin neither, that doesn't really change much. I would say that it is definitely something good but that doesn't mean that it is perfect, it is just "decent" way of approaching crypto by the government.

What you could however do is making a law stating that banks could act as crypto exchanges if they want to (and crypto wallets basically since exchanges hold crypto anyway) and then watch crypto grow to 100x size of right now. That stage of crypto in the future will be the greatest thing ever and I know that it will come, probably soon as well.

What a person does in this private space is not something that the government should bother him about, there is some privacy in some places but at the same time there are countries who are actually very involved with their government workers since this defines their overall financial support and state in a way. There are mayor's urging to recieve their salaries in Bitcoins and at the same times there are presidents making statements *to not involve with cryptocurrencies like bitcoins*
Therefore I do think that this question is basically dependent on where you live. For me, my home country India, I did not personally find any government official engaging with Bitcoins since they were for a fact more dependent on the government and the government doesn't really like bitcoins much, people tend to focus on gold and more traditional investments as well in India.

For now I am starting to have doubts about what is happening in my country because indeed some time ago there was something that did cause crypto to be one thing that was not allowed religiously (not legally) and indeed many people in my country consider that crypto is included in the one of the tools of gambling and terrorists (as the news often heard some time ago).
on the other hand for now, what I know most of them are indeed working as non-formal employees and only in ordinary social work but some of them are still in the milestones of government even funny there are some of my friends who do work in banks but do not trust the system they are working on at this time and choose crypto.
this is of course not how we work whether formal or not because in my personal opinion it doesn't really matter and crypto is a choice whether we want to be there or not.

That means that the policy regarding cryptocurrencies still has leeway for anyone from formal circles even those associated with institutions to own Bitcoin in any amount. Is there a tax set for these civil servants? Could one of the public servants evade wealth tax into Bitcoin as a safe haven from investigating the assets they own?

I know that bitcoin is not only made for certain circle where the type of work is a barrier to owning or trading it. I only speak according to the circumstance around me where people I know both online and offline state that generally they are not civil servant. I also think that civil servant in my country have never been prohibited from owning bitcoin or trading them, it's just that the government enforce the same rule for the whole society regarding the prohibition of bitcoin which we cannot use as legal tender.

As far as I know my country doesn't prohibit civil servant from owning bitcoin or crypto, but the amount may be small based on people I know make me a little curious how this is happening in your country and the people you know. I can honestly say that some of the public servant I spoke to about bitcoin and crypto were not interested in knowing more about this digital asset. Few have thought about investing that might ask more, while others just say yes without wanting to know much.

Well, maybe that’s for your friends. There are many people who are civil servants are still buying and selling cryptocurrencies. There are no specific people that this bitcoin is meant for, it is meant for everyone.

Maybe you don’t have much friends who are civil workers? Because, it can be possible that most of the friends you have are not, and that’s why you’re thinking such. There isn’t really any way that you can prove that the number determines how it is in the cryptocurrency community, because there are so many people here who are involved in different areas of life.

In my country trading and investing in crypto is legal so I know a lot of government workers who also have income from crypto. But if we are talking about blockchain developers, all of them work in private companies, as the government in my country don't consider crypto as a good economic tool for refinancing loans or means of payment.

I doubt this stat for my Country though because at the long run it has no effect on Bitcoin.

From my little experience, people who are interested in area like trading are often those who are self employed looking for additional sources of income or those without a job especially students and house wives. I'm not sure I have met any government worker who is interested. Where I live people are mostly self employed. It's not very common to find government workers... people are usually self employed or working for owners of small/medium scale businesses or companies.

In my country we have had several treat regarding crypto trading, investment, bounty and air drops and the closed watched are government workers  but so far their treat is becoming empty treats because crypto is becoming a new empowerment scheme even by the so called government operatives. Many non-formal workers no longer strive for government jobs since crypto gives them ease to earn at their own comfort

In third world countries it's true since most of employer already grateful with their fixed income and scared to invest in volatile asset. While freelancer is more up to date about any opportunity to make more money, of course if Bitcoin and cryptocurrency often appeared if you search "How to earn money online" in google.

While in first world countries either employer or freelancer it doesn't matter since they have a better mindset to manage their money.

Do not forget with some countries has no internet access, of course he will never know what is Bitcoin.

So it's really depends on where you live.

In my personal opinion, maybe what is meant by formal work according to the OP is work that has a decent monthly salary according to the minimum wage in the country [government agencies/civil servants and factory employees] or business people while non-formal are labor and private workers who tend to earn less. uncertain. and as the OP stated; the people I know and join here are mostly non-formal workers, maybe because I am a middle class person so I hang out with them a lot, whether it's the other way around

Op, can you clarify what you mean by formal and non-formal workers? Do you mean whether a person is employed by the government or whether the person has a job with taxable income? In my country, we use the terms 'official employment' (any employment for which the taxes are paid) and 'unofficial employment' (any employment for which money is received, but no taxes are paid). Is that what you meant as well, or is it about private vs government sector as some understood? I believe most people who do something with cryptos in my country or work for crypto businesses do that unofficially, but some of these people also formally have a different official job with a salary that is being taxed, so in this sense they are officially employed as well.

Well, the same thing is with me... most of the people I know heard about crypto from me, and just a few of them get more involved, but nothing seriously! I know some guys from the Serbian section that are in crypto seriously for years and that's it! Like in most other things my country is a few years behind the world, so nothing strange about that!
In the last two years, crypto gained a lot of visibility, now it's in newspapers, on TV... Bitcoin is breaking records, Bitcoin dropped a lot, etc... but people read it and ask more questions than before, definitely regretting missed opportunity!

I recognize you as one of the Indonesian users based on your posting history, maybe that's enough to identify how the government regulate bitcoin and cryptocurrency for everyone regardless of what job they have.

Indonesia is known to be friendly with bitcoin and cryptocurrency for a long time and this is an important reason why many people are involved in this industry both as traders and investors and other things that support it. There are many communities spread across Facebook and they have group like the Indonesian trader community and so on so it's only natural that you get to know these people in the real world and online and know what their real work background is.

But so far in my opinion there is no rule that prohibit government employees from being directly involved in this industry but there may be special rule from some agencies such as banks that prohibit their employees from being involved just because bank do not like decentralization. But in general there is no limit saying that Indonesia prohibit government employees from entering the industry as a way of making profit outside of their original job. At least that's what I know about the rule.

first in my country there is no limit for those who want to stay up late crypto. it is allowed for those who work in government or not, formal or non-formal. all open to the public, there are no regulations that prohibit or limit it. but if you look at the age, probably most of the crypto traders in my country are around 24-40 years old. and the highest average is at the age of 27-30 years.

I guess OP has drawn rough analysis from the people around him, and i can quiet say that the same is the case for individuals around me as well, that is the bulk of individuals with an interest in bitcoin and cryptocurrency are those not necessarily without a formal education, but those without formal high paying jobs. There is a high rate of unemployment and poverty in my country, people have been forced to become entrepreneurs and small business owners, the money realised sometimes from business and entrepreneurship may not be sufficient to create the dream life that one dreams of, so there is the motivation to seek for more opportunities, and bitcoin creates such to level the playing field with those that have high paying formal jobs who already have a better life, and not necessarily considering or seeking opportunities elsewhere.

There is also another perspective to view this, that is you will have less formal office people in bitcoin trading particularly because the job they already have steals their time, and they may not have the time to monitor the market.

In my country people haven't heard about it two years back. Now people in any business has got basic understanding as bitcoin is much advertised. People to whom I introduced about cryptocurrencies, but haven't made an investment are now feeling bad about their decision. It is true that 90% of the people into the crypto industry are informal workers. In my country one out of hundred seems to be the people into cryptocurrency, with the city people it could differ as 50 out of 100 into cryptocurrency.

I grew up in a country with many limitations on technology, but in recent years the crypto industry has really been a place to attract people's curiosity. Although it is rare to see people talking about it, I always see top projects from my country go international. As I am personally exposed to this field, I also only have a few friends to exchange knowledge with, I remember that before I was a student when most of my friends heard me introduce it. I always get things like 'scam' 'nonsense'... And now they still have this view of the market, but I find the numbers you mentioned it to be counterintuitive as well accurately reflect this work environment with current society.

When it comes to where I live, lately I've started hearing in my local media that after the rise of Bitcoin a lot of politicians and officials are also starting to like how they view crypto especially Bitcoin as a good hedge. Maybe they know better how fiat to their wealth is threatened by inflation. I don't think they save from the wealth tax they have. it's up, because of their money. Gradually it turned out that those who worked as formal workers could not forever be crypto traders, and decided to become long-term investors.

Then in my own immediate environment, most of them are friends, relatives and people who work informally who have already traded crypto. Even my family and I are no strangers when we get together we often discuss about the coins they trade. This is very funny and not a few of them joke about the meme coin. I prefer weekend atmosphere, because that's when we talk to each other and evaluate each other's portfolio while showing off and having fun.

Maybe this depend on country where you are on since there are several country ban bitcoins so obviously most of their citizen doesn't know about its existence and if they know they tag it as suspicious currency or a scam due to several types of bad impression made by certain people and mainstream medias.

But overall of this maybe we just didn't know the actual count since as we see the adoption state of the bitcoin maybe the number of government workers who use bitcoin increase but they cannot influence the adoption of the country since there are several ruling and I  think it needs to pass a law(I don't know about the law on this) so that they can pass its full adoption to their country. But what good thing here is you already see some several of them using bitcoin so its a good start anyway and for sure we can see more from it in on years pass.

Op I think you a little correct on that. The people that are not employed with government are known to try their hands on different things and they are the lucky once as early adopters. They are the ones that get few numbers of the government workers into the circle of cryptocreency either as friends or family members. Also being independent of government job gives you more time in your hand for research just like in Nigeria, the people that I notice that discuss about cryptocurrency are those that are not doing government jobs.

I don't have an accurate stats on what's the current situation and job of most crypto people in my country. But with what I've observed in different online groups, they're working in private companies which is the biggest portion. Next to it are the businessmen and lastly, those that are full time in trading and other related crypto paying hustles. Well, we don't have accurate information about such but this only gives the idea that bitcoin is for everyone.

It depends a lot on the country, but the basic principle is to not have either privileged information or, alternatively, a conflict of interest. This gives plenty of space for gov officials and other to trade and own not just bitcoin but many other financial assets that are even more prone to be dealt with privileged information or other conflicting interests involved.

To be honest, this is not surprising, since many public sector officials and politicians end up their days working in the private sector anyway.

It's not about gov or private sector workers but the type of work they do. There is a much higher proportion of IT workers (developers, sys admins, helpdesk) than any other type. This is due to the higher tech knowledge needed for more profitable trades.

When normies can be onboarded as easily as buying a loaf of bread, then bitcoin will be a confirmed success - something we'll know anyway because the bitcoin price will be sky high at that point!

If you don't mind, I'd like to know how you came about such numbers/statistics that people who are not civil servants are more in the network than those who are. Are you coming to such conclusions from the few people you've met and interacted with or is there any other source of the info. AFAIK and have experienced, the network 'harbors' people from all walks of life, without any clear disparity in the number from a particular field. If the above is true where you're from, then it could possibly be cause civil servants work so hard over there and have little time for other sources of income, you know people who run their business are their own bosses and so they can set 'time' in their own favor so as to get other things done, that looks like the only reason that could make your assertion somewhat valid.

Then again, no country would solely restrict only civil servants from using crypto, they would either place a general sanction/ban, or they will not, so it's either civil servants in your country of residence work so much that they hardly have time, or the civil servants you've personally come in contact with have no interest in Bitcoin.

Formal workers or non-formal it wouldn't matter because Bitcoin is just there and if there are companies which do give out that option then that's really a good opportunity on dealing with and speaking to those non formal then one of the factors that they wouldn't really be included is that neither it hasn't been
introduced or they don't simply like on dealing with it and trying to avoid volatility as much as they can.

For now adoption is still on the move, there might be places on the world which is one step ahead but doesn't mean that we would really be
losing up some chances.

Since 2014 until now I have noticed that bitcoin and the crypto industry has grown very rapidly where currently its market capitalization is a testament to the successful growth of this industry.

I have been here and around people who support this growing industry such as traders, investors and bounty hunters and others. One fact about these people is that 90% (maybe more) of the people I know who support this industry are not formal workers who usually work as government employees, but they are non-formal workers working part time in some real businesses. There are only 2-3 out of 20 people (not the actual number) who are formal workers as government employees who are currently still trading crypto at my place to this day while the others are non-formal workers. What about those you know in your country, does this happen in your country and the people you know? I don't think there are any restriction governing formal workers involved in this industry as investors or traders.